First of all yes this is in the right place since it is just my overall opinion of pvp on massivecraft. Video credits for pointing this out to me go entirely to @BenRekt Please watch this video and skip to 1:04 seconds. This is exactly what is wrong with MassiveCraft pvp in my opinion. It is an analogy. The reason for this thread Right now many active pvpers say pvp is dead on MassiveCraft and please do not come in here and say oh well there are smaller fights every day that go on without you knowing about them, because guess what... I can not participate in those fights because I will end up killing everyone because I have better gear, and am most likely more experienced. The Problem This video explains this whole thing perfectly, MassiveCraft has tried to add toppings onto a pizza that is only made to have pepperoni, they are trying to recreate the wheel. MassiveCraft pvp has just become so hard and irregular and completely crazy and difficult to understand between vampire, traits, mcmmo, and on top of all this having the need to obtain potions and god weapons. And people wonder why new pvpers do not come around very often on MassiveCraft. MassiveCraft just needs to back up so new pvpers just have a descent chance at being able to jump into pvp without being overwhelmed by all these new weird things that they have never seen before. Another thing that was pointed out to me is that everyone in europe has a constant ping of about 200 m/s with this sort of ping, it really hurts those pvpers from this specific region especially in vampire pvp, due to how fast they go, and how delayed their connection is to the server. This was pointed out to me by @Traxex20 The Fix What I think needs to be done is to: Eliminate vampire completely, since it is outdated according to @Thortuna and a plugin that is outdated and you can not edit should not even be on your server in my opinion. The Vampire plugin is both way overpowered, and also very confusing for new players and potential pvpers. This is a very personal opinion but I think traits make pvp absolutely aweful and based on who gets lucky with their trait build, I don't expect this to be put in. Be more clear in spawn, I have way too many people each day pming me asking how to do certain stuff, just random people who joined a few minutes before, who without my help probably would have just quit MassiveCraft, if it helps as a server owner think of that as a potential sale to help keep the server up, who just left due to not knowing what to do. Please, Stop adding toppings to this pizza, it is fine just having cheese and pepperoni. @Cayorion @Gethelp @Thortuna @MonMarty @Sevak @Shaneski101 @DarShauwn @SwiftPvP @feiooos @jquaile @davidn2012 @morrc5 @BornaSepic @Southrenstar @Lazzulai @Blizzy
cheese, peperoni and my analogy? +1 Incoming "you're a pvp elitist, and that is why your argument is invalid" comments.
In my opinion... Please return Massive to what it was before? (Just races) All these new shizzles are just too much, I like it old and simple.
Nah. I think you're wrong about the method of fixing minecraft PvP. I used to swing on World of Warcraft PvP as a rogue. Played around on arenas. What made WoW's PvP exciting as opposed to Minecraft PvP (Which I had a fair taste for before I came to Massive) are multiple factors: 1. Progression, 2. Statistics, 3. Strategy. Minecraft lacks in all of these factors, as the game has severe limitations on weapon and mechanic management. Sure, potions make some difference and bows some as well, these are easily broken as advantages and limit the sense of accomplishment for PvP. To win, you arm yourself with enchanted gear, close the distance with ender pearls, hit first, and have the best connection. There's a huge lack in team-based mechanics and a set amount of progress you're allowed to hit before you rely purely on internet latency. Its all completely uniform, and hasn't changed since the Minecraft Beta. Massivecraft took a step towards the right direction by adding the plugins; first the Races plugin, then the Vampire Plugin and then the Traits. Each time, it shook up the mechanics in such a way that people had to think and explore a bit to figure out how to best exploit the presented mechanics. Every time someone figured it out, they get bitched out by less-fortunate people for milking the system. Thing is, when the game presents so little options for innovation, milking the system is the only way to win. The method changes per month, based on whatever gets nerfed and whatever gets broken because of the fixes. Even MCMMO kind of sucks in terms of augmenting PvP because developing your skills requires you to hit things in a dark room for days on end. These reasons have, evidently, alienated the PvP community from the rest of them. The experience is polarizing, and its broken because of it. I personally think Massive would benefit far more from a PvE-augmented PvP experience that relies on loot, point-based perk progression, and integration of environment. Not only would it play far better with the server's label of "Massive Multiplayer Minecraft", but it would throw a wrench into the entire 'latency and hit-first dominates' system. Preparation and smart planning could probably counter min-maxed warriors. Some strategy is introduced as a result. Spoiler Point distribution would rely on either harmonious mixing of different traits or min-maxing your buffs. I quite liked Hypixel's Warlords mini-game in this regard, since it gave a slim margin where skill trumps better equipment. You can still win against someone with superior gear so long as you use your class skills and made the right calls. It also beckoned the player to continue playing after a loss, because it offered an incentive to keep playing through better weaponry and cosmetics. Its addictive, far much more than the slim pickings of regular PvP and this server's take on it.
I think this is the best solution so far. It's fast, it terminates the Vampire problem instantly and no huge changes until 1.9 comes out!
Sadly, as much as I liked the old races plugin, they aren't bringing it back. They stated this many times.
I think you kind of fall under the category of you don't pvp much. If you did you would realize if you have anywhere over 150 m/s fighting vampires, whether you are one or not, is complete suicide, especially at night, Also did you watch this video? Since this whole thing was about too many ideas to something that is already fun and nice with how it is. All active pvpers like it how it is without vampires, and some without traits, this ENTIRE THREAD is about how pvp should be how it was made to be.
I would have suggested that but as @Thortuna stated in a last thread, vampires are an outdated plugin, and they can not edit them. Why they are on the server, she has still not responded to.
I personally, as a casual gamer who enjoys PvP to a degree, have to acknowledge that it has become extremely difficult to learn. However, that is probably not the biggest issue. MCMMO is the biggest issue I think, since it skews battles in favor of whoever has the best stats. Since I rather doubt anyone here would willingly let their hard earned stats be wiped or lost (myself included) I don't think there's a valid way to fix that. To those who say "races were better" I say "no they weren't". Races, like Traits, like armor, like pots, like mcmmo, had a single race that was superior to the others (Undead for resistance, Dwarf for axes) and people complained continuously that dwarves/undead were OP and needed a nerf. I've yet to see a single trait build that was inherently better than another such build, which is what I like about traits. Yes, they may all be SIMILAR builds with a few universal traits, but there isn't a single build that everyone uses in the exact same way (from what I've seen at least, maybe it's just a well kept secret?). Vampires are fun, but not for PvP. PvE on the other hand... If I had to think of a fix, it would be to create some traits that can mimic the vampire plugin without being so OP. I would also work on simplifying potions (but that's just cause I suck at potpvp) and would, in a dreamland, remove mcmmo's pvp aspects. I find this inherently offensive and request that you remove it. Thank you.
Maybe advertise the server a bit more as pvp, so you know... we don't have to enemy close allies just to keep pvp alive.
I've sorta been around for 3 years now and during my time around something has always been "wrong" with PvP lol. All these complaint threads are sort of like a never ending cycle.
But I like pepperoni, three kinds of cheese, stuffed crust, hell maybe even put some cinnamon on that just to see how it turns out. Yes, the vampire plugin is old and really needs to be fixed. Either replacing it with a homebrew plugin, or finding a better way to work with what is available would be good options. Removing it outright would be annoying, and just like last time it was removed we'd have tons of players joining wanting to be vampires being told to bugger off. Traits are awesome. They require you to actually understand the plugin as a whole, and have more in depth knowledge of them if you want to succeed. Perhaps you should spend more time playing around with traits, or perhaps watch those who seem to 'get lucky with traits' on a regular basis. The spawn thing might be a valid point, but since I don't really spend a ton of time in that area, I don't feel like talking about it. Not one for covering subjects I know little to nothing about. So, some good points on your part, and some bad ones. But at the end of the day, Pizza is awesome. Its a great canvas that many can adapt and vary to get extremely tasty meals. Sure, there are people who would rather keep it the traditional cheese and pepperoni. But what about the rest of us who like pineapples, anchovies, cinnamon (which is amazing on pizza ftr), and stuffed crust? Maximum agrees. People who are creative find loop holes, then people complain. A great example of this is League of Legends or DOTA. Instead of blaming other players for being more on the ball than them, or themselves for A) not thinking of it first or B)Thinking of a way to counter it, blaming the game itself tends to be the majority. I guess people's pride tends to blind them on the subject.
Removing vampires is such an... Ignorant statement. All you.are.looking at is pvp perspective, but you are not looking at the entire server. Obviously not everyone pvps on the server and to say that you should remove vampires just to please the pvp aspect of Massive is just...Well ignorant.
Vampires have been on the server extremely long. Vampires have been part of this server for so long that it is part of pvp. I think it's bloodlust that people hate instead of vampires in general.
Removing the vampire plugin, and removing them entirely are two different things. The plugin part is the one that's meant for PvP purposes, and they'll probably never remove them from lore if that's your concern. The plugin had already been removed previously anyways, and people got used to it, just from my understanding, some 5-ish or so months ago, the server updated and accidentally re-activated the plugin, and didn't bother removing it afterwards since people sort of liked it.
Ah I see, thank you for replying. I didn't realize that I was out of date with my vampire knowledge. ;)
I don't PvP on Massive because its not fun. And I'm tossing in my hat into the ring for it in hopes that other people can come together to figure out solutions to the problem, rather than circling the same drain trying to find issues within an issue.
There's your problem. You've got to be serious about PVPing and invest hours of your precious time into leveling in order for MCMMO to work in your favor. MCMMO is a plugin designed mainly to benefit serious players, not casual ones.
Just wanna clarify this for Thor, he doesn't want PvP to be how Minecraft made it, he wants PvP to be the way it was when he joined massive, aka, just mcmmo and races. I remember when it was just mcmmo and vampires, since I've been here 3 and a half years now (/seen MasterMachine100). How PvP was made to be was without mcmmo, traits, vampires, premium perks, factions bonuses, and anything that exists because of those. So really, Thor just doesn't like traits and vampires. Felt that needed to be clarified.
It sounds like the best idea is just to get rid of the pvp affecting plugins. You don't need any more progression than in vanilla(ish) minecraft; working up to a well defensible base, foraging for the mulah needed to buy god armor, managing your faction, and finding a place in the faction world should be hard enough (I've done my research). The factions stuff is a great addition to pvp, but I personally am against PvP plugins unless they add things that have to do with realistic combat. Also, what's the point of complicated progression if there are people who can bypass it all? No offense, premiums, especially if they changed what you get for being premium, but progression should be at the same difficulty for everyone in my opinion.
Erm no please don't tell me what I want, I would much rather have vanilla pvp, also I have been here just as long as you, my seen was reset in a glitch a little under three years ago. Races were not on when I joined, and the highest person in axes had 400 or less. If it were up to me I would have no traits no races no mcmmo and no vampire, I know this is not realistic so I suggest making pvp as even for all players as possible once they reach the point where they have god armor god weapons and pots.
You can't remove all the plugins xD That's like playing on a complete new server from the day to night! We need rebalance. And this thread is pointless. Everyone here agrees that the Vamp plugin needs to be nerfed or removed. The only thing to do now is to way for an Admin response. And MonMarty didn't say shit about keeping or not Vamp, so yeah... We need a real mod to tell us what they're gonna do about this.
He said that current staff can not remove it, not till cay regains his hands. But that they agree it needs to go I think.
I don't really pvp. I'm pretty new to the server and found early on that being new is hard! Loads of others are WAY ahead of u and u find yourself congratulating yourself for getting from 0-200 and then realise everyone else has gone from 200-400. Its so hard to make up that time
Several people, such as me and @thor5648 had thought about trying to get McMMO removed because it limits who can and cannot PvP to a certain extent, but not many people agreed with us. I brought 10 irl friends on here to help me PvP, and literally every single one of them left because of McMMO and the grind that comes with it.
Our concerns are Levels that people have spent, and how that translates into effort that they don't want to see wasted. Some people would literally leave the server if we dumped MCMMO. The question remains whether removing the threshold for new PVP'ers to become big names is worth potentially losing the old ones, or whether it is a lose lose situation because it won't guarantee us new players. On the other hand, it makes MassiveCraft a bit more easy entry. Kind of like how you can play on League of Legends and have fun, but runes are like a far off thing that matter in high competitive play, but not so much in the lower end. Perhaps MCMMO should be replaced with an inhouse plugin that instead of these really game changing things, only adds very small upgrades like 3% damage output or 5% less damage received. Would removing MCMMO make Traits a more appealing aspect to make PVP more unique and interesting on MassiveCraft by trying to emulate mass competitive gaming with big brands like League of Legends or World of Warcraft where Talents, Masteries and Runes are all about customization, but it doesn't mean that much at the end of the day?
Perhaps waiting until the rebalancing of Minecraft's combat in 1.9 is a possibility before making changes. Btw, RPer over here so excuse my ignorance if this is a bad idea.
I don't feel like getting into a debate about this, as I don't care enough about massive pvp to put that much effort in, doubting anything will be changed. However, I'll give you my opinion quickly. In response to wasted time on mcmmo causing people to quit: This will unfortunately happen no matter what you do. However you can help to compensate those who wasted so much time on mcmmo. Some ideas: Compensate those who spent large amounts of time for their efforts. For example, anyone with a 5k+ power level could get a certain number of regals, scaling for higher amounts. Give some kind of ingame title only available to those who achieved the top 10 in one of the /mctop leaderboards. Title doesn't need to have any particular benefits, it would be just for bragging. Remember that many players, including myself, only grind for money and bragging rights, as getting your mcmmo past 1k in most combat skills doesn't really affect much. Make some kind of trophy item for each player containing their stat levels to memorialize their efforts. In response to the new threshold, old names leaving: I don't think many of the serious pvpers will leave. In fact, I think many of the past big names could come back. The pvp community is dying. There are very few "big names" left. Kings is (mostly) gone. Destruction is gone. All of the famous Magnanimus members, excluding Thor and shaneski, are gone. The only pvpers who actively pvp, and are well known, are sevak, shaneski, some other wolves members I don't feel like naming, Thor, swift (Painns), blizzard, and myself, though I'm not really sure I play enough to be considered active. Sure, there's some other people who try, or occasionally come on for a fight or two, but there's not really many "big names" left. My point is, what do you have to lose? You've all but lost the pvp community. And sure some rpers might care a bit, but I don't really think it would affect most of them that much in the long run. On the other hand, what do you have to gain? You have the ability to bring back massive pvp, more general activity, and breathe life back into the server. And no, not just pvp. The entire server. I don't know if I'm just crazy, but I seem to remember massive peaking at 350 players each day. I honestly can't tell you the last time I even saw 300 players on massive. Course, there's other factors involved, or maybe I'm just remembering wrong. But still. Massive in-house plugin: Personally, if it makes that little difference I think it would be a waste of cayorion's time. If you really want to keep everyone's stats, just remove all of the benefits of mcmmo. I'm relatively sure this is possible using just the config file. This way, it would also be possible to keep certain skills that don't harm anything, such as herbalism. Keeping traits: sigh. Back to this. In my opinion getting rid of pvp and keepin traits is kind of pointless. Yes, it will make it better, but pvpers will still see traits as enough of a downside to join another server over massive. If you really do insist on keeping them, perhaps remove or significantly nerf traits affecting combat? For example axe expert could be changed to 3-5% extra damage, or more preferably, removed altogether. Haste 2, on the other hand has no reason to be removed as it does not affect combat (despite rumors, it does not raise attack speed. Look it up.) same goes for many of the traits I notice a lot of rpers use, such as jump2. It increases speed and accessibility for building and such, but most pvpers consider jump boost a negative affect during pvp, as you have little control, and therefor, little ability to strafe, while in the air. On vamp: i know you didn't mention it, but still feel it needs mentioning. It completely ruins pvp. Anyone using traits will be destroyed by any vamp who knows what they're doing. It needs to be removed asap, or at least disable bloodlust. I know, cayorion is unable to use his hands, but perhaps madus or ulumulu could disable it? I would think it would just need a change in the config file, but I don't know who actually has access to config files, or if that's actually the case. It would still be nice to at least know it will be removed as soon as cayorion regains his hands. Tldr: Massive could really be the perfect server for pvp. No need to worry about losing all your items, no ridiculous kits for those who spend hundreds of dollars, easy access to gear, and Massive could quite easily regain its previously large pvp base. All it needs is a bit of work :)
From what I've seen so far, although it's still up for change, 1.9 is going to completely change pvp, and I'm not altogether sure it will do so in a positive manner. So far, we've seen lots of archery buffing, although it is yet to see if it will actually be possible to obtain these arrows in survival, dual wielding, and shields. One example off the top of my head is the new chorus plant. Eating one of its fruits teleports you similarly to an enderman, meaning with a bit of luck, there won't be anywhere people are truely safe at. I'm not going to say much more as nothing is final, and could actually turn out for the better. Also, remember that we could still face a long time till 1.9. Judging by the snapshot, which looks entirely glitchy and half-asses to me, it will still be several months till we have a final version of 1.9, plus the normal one month buffer while plugins are updating. Remember, this is entirely my own speculation based on what I've seen of 1.9, and I could be wrong. Just trying to point out that waiting till 1.9 could mean a very long time.
This is probably one of the most helpful replies I have seen. Like ever. I can't make concrete promises because everything relies on who is able to help me from within the staff, but I will put some serious work on this. Thank you.
