Archived Factions Moving Forward

[Sevak]

Before I wrote this introduction, I showed the contents of this post to my friend @jquaile. His response was basically that there was no point in me even trying, and that nothing is going to change no matter how much I write and how well the players react to it. I thought about that for a bit and I realized, at this point there's been hundreds of threads, and thousands of comments with good ideas and criticism. Yet, there hasn't been much done with them, and PvP has only declined. The purpose of this post isn't to have another 5 page discussion. We've already done that. This is a compilation of the opinions of most members of the PvP community. This is what we're suggesting.

I'm not sure how long it's been since my last giant essay regarding Massivecraft PvP. Maybe two months? All I know is since then, I've been on maybe 5 raids on Massive. 0 of which have been enjoyable for me. That's because they were all in the same spot. Solarian. I've done nothing but defend Solarian's tower from @Ieso and co. Each time it's the same people on each side. The same people get kills, the same people die repeatedly (me), no one wins or loses. I can't even remember the last time I fought at a base that wasn't owned by a big PvP faction.

So why am I writing another post? Because despite the amount of players who supported and agreed with my last one, nothing has changed. The only things even set in motion were the removal of mcmmo pots? Maybe? Haven't heard any updates about that. And the server war, which was very loosely adapted from my idea and seems like it's heading in the direction of another hand held event where we tell the other side "there's about to be a fight at this location!" and we all tp to the destination and fight each other! Oh boy.

I'm sorry, maybe there's lots of effort being put in behind the scenes to make necessary changes. I wouldn't know. But I'm going to speak my mind, and put what I do know on the table.

Now before I get a response where I'm told that there are big plans in the works and I'm ungrateful for all the hard work staff have been putting in, let me say this. I have been incredibly patient. But the PvP community as a whole is running out of patience. Over the past two years I've seen friend after friend quit playing on the server, completely giving up on a fun factions experience ever making a return. If there's ever going to be PvP on the server, action needs to be taken while there's still any amount of hope.

So here's my list of suggestions.

PvP mechanics

• McMMO pots have to go. But before this can be done, we have to guarantee that PvP can be balanced without them. The damage output has to be altered to counteract the loss of absorption and health boost. This is one we've pretty much all agreed on and most remaining pvpers would be happy to help test damage output.
  
• No magic in PvP. I don't know exactly what magic is yet, and until I find out, it's a huge NO, in my book. Traits were controversial. Vampires were controversial. I believe it was @BenRekt who made the pizza analogy about massive PvP. To summarize, the analogy was that massivecraft was good as a plain pizza, but too many plugins/toppings were added that made people dislike it. Based on speculation, and this isn't an opinion unique to me,, Magic is the equivalent of ordering a pizza with chocolate ice cream as the topping.
• Remove the ability to pick up dropped weapons from unarmed. This isn't as big a deal as it used to be. But I feel like lots of newer players are driven away from PvP when they've lost their weapon 3 seconds into a fight. Another thing where I just can't see a reason why it SHOULD exist...

The Economy

• I honestly can't comprehend why this was rejected. In a situation regarding how much people spend, of course the general population will want to spend less. But this isn't about what people want. Something like this is about what the server needs. If you want a successful server economy, material surplus has to be contained. A player can basically repair a full set of armor for 5 regals if you have 1k repairs. Increase the amount of diamonds used in iron block repairing as suggested here https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/nerfing-mcmmo-repair.54665/
• Some way to get rid of God gear. I don't have any ideas for this one but would love to hear suggestions and discuss it.

Factions Worlds

• Increase the time between massive restores to 3-6 months. The worlds will not become cluttered with disgusting grief in 1 month, there's no point in having it run as often as it does.
  
• This suggestion isn't the most popular, but I still believe factions should only be able to have one claim. Obviously this isn't practical since we can't force factions to unclaim their land. Maybe land claimed that isn't connected to the f home of a faction could have doubled taxes? This will not only build community within factions, but it will also give more meaning to the factions f home. It becomes a place where a majority of members live and interact. Making it something that must be protected in some way.
  
• Decrease each individual's power to 10-20, decreasing the amount each player can claim. This way a 3 man faction cannot own a city.
• Massivemobs removal in a few worlds again, doesn't seem like much to ask for due to the amount of people complaining about them.

Faction Interaction

• Is there any new information on Empires? Any sort of ETA or update would be amazing.
  
• Forming alliances for defending/raiding. The EA (Enigma, Tyberia, Afrovia Alliance) was a fantastic idea. This was a real alliance. Some backstory for those who don't know what this was. The EA was a group of 3 factions, each one not too strong on their own, that joined together to help each other with raids. Combined they were a threat. Working together is the best way to grow a faction, this idea should be encouraged more.

Faction Lore

• My idea for a server war was probably the idea that drew the most support from the community. And then the proposal ended up being exactly what I wanted to avoid. Yes, it could work in some aspects, and maybe the idea presented by Kaezir could be fun. But it's not at all what I was thinking. Sorry. After speaking with @Dakar and @Tokuu I realized I'm not the only PvPer who felt this way, so I'm going to bring it up now. The point of the server war I proposed was that there would be an overarching storyline to the world of factions. There would be two major sides in the war, and factions that wanted to involve themselves would align with a side in some way. The only staff involvement I wanted in this was that maybe they could help write posts and encourage more factions to join the war. The point of this idea is to include more factions into the story over time as it grows in interest. It's about including new people. It's not about hosting big events and recording the winners. I'm hoping my new explanation here is better than my previous one.

Encouragement

• This is kind of a broad topic that relates to my server war idea. But encouraging players to play survival has a lot to do with excitement and the hype of a big war. In June 2015, my faction, Wolves, declared an open rebellion against the tyranny of Magnanimus. I remember when we announced ourselves as a force against Mag on that night, general chat was being spammed by people supporting each side. It was exciting. And it may have not been the best war but we had some good raids and it had meaning to it because it felt like we were raiding for a cause. Faction announcements are more important than we all think.
  
• Now here's something that has bothered me forever. The fact that there are more people discussing the future of PvP on the forums, than there are actual PvPers playing on the server. I encourage everyone now, if you want to see change, stop with the chatter, make your own faction and start playing.

 

[Kaezir]

You know I have a lot of respect for you, but I have to disagree. First of all, with almost every plug-in that has been implemented in the survival worlds, there has always been a completely disregard for properly balancing or running tests of plug-ins. People didn't hate traits simply because it was different than races. They hated it because it clearly was not properly tested in the slightest. People were literally being killed in one hit because traits was just thrust onto the server before being tested. I believe that the initial broken implementation of traits single-handedly did the most damage to the survival community. Not even just because of glitched damage, but because of blatantly over powered traits, such as haste 2, where people could now insta-mine permanently, further ruining the price of survival goods. The exact same thing happened with the "Advanced Anti-Cheat" plug-in where people were consistently being kicked and temp banned from the server because the plug-in was faulty and was not tested. I know we should keep an open mind, but when you can consistently see any lack of proper testing or balancing before implementation, I think a certain level of caution is warranted. Especially if MassiveMagic is as 'game changing' as has been advertised.

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MassiveMagic will go through a completely different process from the rest.

As stated in a previous magic post, players will only start off with a few words. Ones that don't really do much damage or are purely utility(like growing crops.) They then have to take on the initiative to learn the words themselves. The process will be detailed in a post I am releasing hopefully this week. From the 8 months I've been working together with Ulu in testing and other aspects that don't involve me personally coding, there are only a few words that have the potential to cause severe harm and I will actually be going through those words before full release.

EDIT:I'll clear releasing the poll data soon. As well as the PvP poll itself.

 

[Sevak]

MassiveMagic will go through a completely different process from the rest.

As stated in a previous magic post, players will only start off with a few words. Ones that don't really do much damage or are purely utility(like growing crops.) They then have to take on the initiative to learn the words themselves. The process will be detailed in a post I am releasing hopefully this week. From the 8 months I've been working together with Ulu in testing and other aspects that don't involve me personally coding, there are only a few words that have the potential to cause severe harm and I will actually be going through those words before full release.

EDIT:I'll clear releasing the poll data soon. As well as the PvP poll itself.

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Side note - Could we do a poll on unarmed and see how people feel about that? I'll add it to the original post

 

[Typhenon]

Regalia is where most of the server population is, and always has been. Can't really blame them.

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Yeah but do the rpers in regalia really need the sewers to be redone like 5 times a year?

 

[Parz1vol]

Yeah but do the rpers in regalia really need the sewers to be redone like 5 times a year?

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Yes. The sewers, which have been redone once in the past two years or longer, are being replaced again to recentralize role play. Keeping in mind that the largest population that needs tending to and catering to is generally going to be the one that gets what it wants. Being a minority has never been fun, realistically and historically speaking.

EDIT: To clarify, this means that PvPers should focus on getting easy changes that would draw in more players.

 

[Typhenon]

Yes. The sewers, which have been redone once in the past two years or longer, are being replaced again to recentralize role play. Keeping in mind that the largest population that needs tending to and catering to is generally going to be the one that gets what it wants. Being a minority has never been fun, realistically and historically speaking.

EDIT: To clarify, this means that PvPers should focus on getting easy changes that would draw in more players.

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They've been redone atleast twice in the last year

 

[jquaile]

Regalia is where most of the server population is, and always has been. Can't really blame them.

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This T R I G G E R S me because that is not true, most of the population hasn't always been in Regalia. It has been for quite a while now but 100% not always, when I joined the server there were normally more people in factions than in Regalia pretty much most of the time.

 

[Maytee]

Yes. The sewers, which have been redone once in the past two years or longer, are being replaced again to recentralize role play. Keeping in mind that the largest population that needs tending to and catering to is generally going to be the one that gets what it wants. Being a minority has never been fun, realistically and historically speaking.

EDIT: To clarify, this means that PvPers should focus on getting easy changes that would draw in more players.

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I don't wish to trash this thread with flame but generally speaking the Factions/PvP community brings in a majority of the servers funding. As a minority we have a greater impact on the server than most of the RP community.

 

[Zacatero]

Regalia is where most of the server population is, and always has been. Can't really blame them.

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I think Ben's point was that when the excuse that silverwind was never worked on was that there wasn't enough manpower, not necessarily where the population of the server is.


Also, enough with you excuse that massive won't help the survival Community because we are in the majority of the players. It's not how massive staff works and you just make yourself sound very uninformed

 

[Parz1vol]

This T R I G G E R S me because that is not true, most of the population hasn't always been in Regalia. It has been for quite a while now but 100% not always, when I joined the server there were normally more people in factions than in Regalia pretty much most of the time.

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You joined about twenty days before me. Unless the change happened in twenty days, I can't agree with that statement.

I don't wish to trash this thread with flame but generally speaking the Factions/PvP community brings in a majority of the servers funding. As a minority we have a greater impact on the server than most of the RP community.

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Can you confirm this with numbers? Because anecdotally speaking, I generally see upwards of twenty premium role players in Regalia.

I think Ben's point was that when the excuse that silverwind was never worked on was that there wasn't enough manpower, not necessarily where the population of the server is.


Also, enough with you excuse that massive won't help the survival Community because we are in the majority of the players. It's not how massive staff works and you just make yourself sound very uninformed

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No, it isn't? From what I've gathered, any functional governing body whose goal is to improve the experience of its residents is more likely from a logical standpoint to serve the majority, rather than the minority.

 

[Parz1vol]

They've been redone atleast twice in the last year

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They were redone last year in November/December-ish and are being scrapped and replaced now. Your statement is still false and an unnecessary hyperbolization that damaged the point you were trying to make.

Sorry for double posting.

I also want to clarify once again. The goal needs to get more people to PvP.

 

[Zacatero]

No, it isn't? From what I've gathered, any functional governing body whose goal is to improve the experience of its residents is more likely from a logical standpoint to serve the majority, rather than the minority.

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Not at all. if you want to think about it like a real governing body, then put it this way. survival players get more premium than roleplayers.. so from a standpoint of keeping the server running, it might be wise to think about those players at least equally

 

[Zacatero]

They were redone last year in November/December-ish and are being scrapped and replaced now. Your statement is still false and an unnecessary hyperbolization that damaged the point you were trying to make.

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also this is just... you are literally arguing with him on his time frame alone which tells me you have nothing else substantial to provide..

The overall point is, regalia has gotten several new districts, new sewers, several mansions in the wilderness, all in the time frame that the survival players were told silverwind didn't have enough manpower to build.

It's not that those things are bad, but it's clear the Manpower is there

 

[Kellock93]

also this is just... you are literally arguing with him on his time frame alone which tells me you have nothing else substantial to provide..

The overall point is, regalia has gotten several new districts, new sewers, several mansions in the wilderness, all in the time frame that the survival players were told silverwind didn't have enough manpower to build.

It's not that those things are bad, but it's clear the Manpower is there

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Silverwind needs rules and such, the construction is done. It actually has been for months. Take a look here.

I also want to clarify once again. The goal needs to get more people to PvP.

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I am not so sure about that, to me, it seems rather a certain Player group tries to turn PvP into their own personal PvP Experience, without regard to losses.

 

[Sevak]

Silverwind needs rules and such, the construction is done. It actually has been for months. Take a look here.



I am not so sure about that, to me, it seems rather a certain Player group tries to turn PvP into their own personal PvP Experience, without regard to losses.

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Actually, half of my suggestions are things that would be losses for me

 

[Parz1vol]

Not at all. if you want to think about it like a real governing body, then put it this way. survival players get more premium than roleplayers.. so from a standpoint of keeping the server running, it might be wise to think about those players at least equally

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I need actual numbers on this before I make a call. The total PvP population and total premium PvP population. Total RP population and total RP premium population. As someone who knows very well how tiny the dedicated PvP population is at this point, I can't take your statements seriously.

also this is just... you are literally arguing with him on his time frame alone which tells me you have nothing else substantial to provide..

The overall point is, regalia has gotten several new districts, new sewers, several mansions in the wilderness, all in the time frame that the survival players were told silverwind didn't have enough manpower to build.

It's not that those things are bad, but it's clear the Manpower is there

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You clearly don't see what I was actually discussing. He said that the sewers had been redone 5 times in no time at all, a false statement.

And yes. The largest community is getting the focus of the governing group.

Silverwind needs rules and such, the construction is done. It actually has been for months. Take a look here.



I am not so sure about that, to me, it seems rather a certain Player group tries to turn PvP into their own personal PvP Experience, without regard to losses.

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You're a saint.

All points about Silverwind being built and worked on just became void. Staff don't have the management manpower.

And yes, large amounts of role players want to see PvP turned into something else. I was of that camp. At this point, I'm of the camp that sees how small and unsustainable PvP is without new blood, which it can bring in through variety combat styles and removal of McMMO.

And, before anyone says how easy managing a system or place is, go sign up for Staff and do it yourself. Their life is not easy.

 

[Kellock93]

Actually, half of my suggestions are things that would be losses for me

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I don't doubt that, but look at the points you made above and try to imagine how they would motivate new players to join.

Some are of course obvious, like Empires, and removing McMMo pots will lower the entry bar for PvP, although it takes away from the diversity. But other than that I have a hard time to see how exactly they are supposed to bring in new players.

 

[Maytee]

I need actual numbers on this before I make a call. The total PvP population and total premium PvP population. Total RP population and total RP premium population. As someone who knows very well how tiny the dedicated PvP population is at this point, I can't take your statements seriously.


You clearly don't see what I was actually discussing. He said that the sewers had been redone 5 times in no time at all, a false statement.

And yes. The largest community is getting the focus of the governing group.


You're a saint.

All points about Silverwind being built and worked on just became void. Staff don't have the management manpower.

And yes, large amounts of role players want to see PvP turned into something else. I was of that camp. At this point, I'm of the camp that sees how small and unsustainable PvP is without new blood, which it can bring in through variety combat styles and removal of McMMO.

And, before anyone says how easy managing a system or place is, go sign up for Staff and do it yourself. Their life is not easy.

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It seems to me that you're tuning your responses to target out specific details that are either obsolete or improperly represented.

You clearly don't see what I was actually discussing. He said that the sewers had been redone 5 times in no time at all, a false statement.

Instead of focusing on the incorrect details we should look at what the post was aimed at stating. In general, Regalia has seen a lot more staff love than the Factions/PvP community. We have issues that'd we would like to see fixed; and that's the purpose of this thread. Please stop the bashing and start talking about what you'd like to see change.

 

[Zacatero]

Okay well majority of society doesn't like ham and pineapple on their pizzas. just like majority of pvp'ers don't like or want traits and magic thrown onto pvp

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I love the pvp community and while this is true... its whats killing you

Yall are at the same time saying..

"We want no diversity in pvp. No pots no traits" which u know makes it borimg af for everybody else

And also saying "we want to fix pvp" and "we are bored its all the same people"

Well no shit its the same people. Everybody else got driven away because of the lack of diversity in pvp. And the effort to fix pvp never accomplishes anything because nobody wants to play boring pvp with no pots or traits or anything special. You are pandering after a dead audience that barely exists.

You CANNOT save pvp without breaking out of this stubborn need to have to always win.
"I hate people who hide inside. Make them surrender"
"I hate that people with elytras can just fly away"
"I lost a kill because they used flywater to escape"

So we got rid of pots. Traits. Flywater in pvp. Soon to be elytra.

The need to win has made pvp on massive bland and boring. Change that and you have a goddamn chance of saving it.

 

[Sevak]

I love the pvp community and while this is true... its whats killing you

Yall are at the same time saying..

"We want no diversity in pvp. No pots no traits" which u know makes it borimg af for everybody else

And also saying "we want to fix pvp" and "we are bored its all the same people"

Well no shit its the same people. Everybody else got driven away because of the lack of diversity in pvp. And the effort to fix pvp never accomplishes anything because nobody wants to play boring pvp with no pots or traits or anything special. You are pandering after a dead audience that barely exists.

You CANNOT save pvp without breaking out of this stubborn need to have to always win.
"I hate people who hide inside. Make them surrender"
"I hate that people with elytras can just fly away"
"I lost a kill because they used flywater to escape"

So we got rid of pots. Traits. Flywater in pvp. Soon to be elytra.

The need to win has made pvp on massive bland and boring. Change that and you have a goddamn chance of saving it.

Click to shrink...

When we've had unique plugins added in before though (unarmed, vampires, traits) the only people who joined in on the PvP were people abusing these plugins. Which resulted in the competitive pvpers complaining about the stuff until it got removed

 

[Sevak]

I don't doubt that, but look at the points you made above and try to imagine how they would motivate new players to join.

Some are of course obvious, like Empires, and removing McMMo pots will lower the entry bar for PvP, although it takes away from the diversity. But other than that I have a hard time to see how exactly they are supposed to bring in new players.

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I really don't understand what you're trying to get at. Not all of my suggestions relate to bringing in new pvpers.

 

[Nekoii]

I love the pvp community and while this is true... its whats killing you

Yall are at the same time saying..

"We want no diversity in pvp. No pots no traits" which u know makes it borimg af for everybody else

And also saying "we want to fix pvp" and "we are bored its all the same people"

Well no shit its the same people. Everybody else got driven away because of the lack of diversity in pvp. And the effort to fix pvp never accomplishes anything because nobody wants to play boring pvp with no pots or traits or anything special. You are pandering after a dead audience that barely exists.

You CANNOT save pvp without breaking out of this stubborn need to have to always win.
"I hate people who hide inside. Make them surrender"
"I hate that people with elytras can just fly away"
"I lost a kill because they used flywater to escape"

So we got rid of pots. Traits. Flywater in pvp. Soon to be elytra.

The need to win has made pvp on massive bland and boring. Change that and you have a goddamn chance of saving it.

Click to shrink...

So if you went out with friends and had to order one pizza, and 2/10 friends like Hawaiian pizza while the other 8/10 like cheese, you would still order a Hawaiian pizza just to please those 2 people?

 

[Zacatero]

When we've had unique plugins added in before though (unarmed, vampires, traits) the only people who joined in on the PvP were people abusing these plugins. Which resulted in the competitive pvpers complaining about the stuff until it got removed

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It sounds like magic has already been balanced. And maybe the pvp community can integrate it instead of casting it aside immediatly

 

[Parz1vol]

It seems to me that you're tuning your responses to target out specific details that are either obsolete or improperly represented.

You clearly don't see what I was actually discussing. He said that the sewers had been redone 5 times in no time at all, a false statement.

Instead of focusing on the incorrect math we should look at what the post was aimed at stating. In general, Regalia has seen a lot more staff love then the Factions/PvP community. We have issues that'd we would like to see fixed; and that's the purpose of this thread. Please stop the bashing and start talking about what'd you like to see change.

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All points about Silverwind being built and worked on just became void. Staff don't have the management manpower.

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See my self quote. It's irrelevant at this point.

What we need is a staffy willing to take hold of the project and manage it.

And I haven't bashed at all. I've rebutted arguments and statements because we all have the same goal. Stop thinking there are

I love the pvp community and while this is true... its whats killing you

Yall are at the same time saying..

"We want no diversity in pvp. No pots no traits" which u know makes it borimg af for everybody else

And also saying "we want to fix pvp" and "we are bored its all the same people"

Well no shit its the same people. Everybody else got driven away because of the lack of diversity in pvp. And the effort to fix pvp never accomplishes anything because nobody wants to play boring pvp with no pots or traits or anything special. You are pandering after a dead audience that barely exists.

You CANNOT save pvp without breaking out of this stubborn need to have to always win.
"I hate people who hide inside. Make them surrender"
"I hate that people with elytras can just fly away"
"I lost a kill because they used flywater to escape"

So we got rid of pots. Traits. Flywater in pvp. Soon to be elytra.

The need to win has made pvp on massive bland and boring. Change that and you have a goddamn chance of saving it.

Click to shrink...

Yes.

I really don't understand what you're trying to get at. Not all of my suggestions relate to bringing in new pvpers.

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What is abuse? Using fly water to escape? Because that sounds like it's the problem of the person without fly water. Same for Elytra. It's always the fault of the person who complains for not being prepared.

Unless it's explicitly a bug of course.

 

[Zacatero]

So if you went out with friends and had to order one pizza, and 2/10 friends like Hawaiian pizza while the other 8/10 like cheese, you would still order a Hawaiian pizza just to please those 2 people?

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If those 8 people are complaining the other 2 never join them for lunch then yes they would order hawaiian for the two they complain never eat with them. Gosh those 8 always say they always eat with the same people it gets boring. The group of 8 would compromise in order to have more people eat with them.

 

[Parz1vol]

So if you went out with friends and had to order one pizza, and 2/10 friends like Hawaiian pizza while the other 8/10 like cheese, you would still order a Hawaiian pizza just to please those 2 people?

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It's the other way around, actually. Most people want variety, the small minority that is PvPers (tend to) not want it.

 

[SubscriptShark]

It's the other way around, actually. Most people want variety, the small minority that is PvPers (tend to) not want it.

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Its just sad to see how massive used to be, and then looking at wat it is now. i dont really know why , but yeah, im just reading along to see some points i like :3

 

[SubscriptShark]

And Also, They Removed the kill count thing for non prems, wich in my eyes is something they shouldnt do

 

[Nekoii]

It's the other way around, actually. Most people want variety, the small minority that is PvPers (tend to) not want it.

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Ya, but honestly who are you going to attract? Maybe roleplayers will test out magic, traits, or whatever add-on's for a week or two, but that's really it. They'll return back to Regalia. And by then you've already chased away the original PVP community, leaving survival and PVP non-existent.

 

[MonMarty]

They've been redone atleast twice in the last year

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I think Ben's point was that when the excuse that silverwind was never worked on was that there wasn't enough manpower, not necessarily where the population of the server is.

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The overall point is, regalia has gotten several new districts, new sewers, several mansions in the wilderness, all in the time frame that the survival players were told silverwind didn't have enough manpower to build.

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I think I need to clarify some points to this regard. It's sadly a recurring problem that somehow people perceive the staff differently than it is.

The great thing about Massive Staff is that it's highly compartmentalized between departments that each have their own levels and areas of expertise and authority. Obviously, PR staff won't get involved with building, and Lore won't get involved with faction rule enforcement. The simplicity of the "excuse" (if you can even call it an excuse, because that sounds really accusatory), is that there isn't enough manpower for such a thing, but that's only a half truth.

The way World staff works is that most of them can only really be employed to work on what they want to work, if I ask a sewer roleplayers to build me a palace, they are probably not that interested in the final outcome of the matter. I think out of all the World staff I have available right now, only Jaehaerys is actually a survivalist, the rest to my knowledge are 100% roleplayers who don't leave Regalia and don't care about building in the survival worlds unless it's absolutely crucially important for the server.

The problem with the rhetoric of "xyz rebuilds" and "xyz reforms" that happened in Regalia as opposed to the survival worlds falls that down same rabbit hole, namely the assumption that you can just take the whole clump of staff as a numerical value and call that manpower. The reality of the matter is that representational, within the compartmentalized staff there is a very clear distinction about who works primarily with the survival worlds in mind, and who works primarily with roleplay in mind.

Unfortunately that relation is about (at a very quick glance) 12 out of 57 staff members, or about 21% which are "in favor" of working for the survivalists. Of this number, about 2 out of 57 staff members, or about 3.5% of staff, are actually "World builders who are tentatively from the survival world". Is it the staff fault that this is the case? Are we intentionally recruiting only roleplayers? Well, personally, I'd say yes, since I purposefully only recruit roleplayers for my departments, but that loops back to the idea of compartmentalization. I have responsibilities that are almost unique assigned to the roleplay communmity. So why does this not exist for the PVP community?

Beats me. The PVP staff members that we did have were either bullied off the server, or out of the PVP they so love, faction survivalists get verbal abuse hurled at them (like the amount of times we see "lol who are they" when some new staff gets recruited is insane, and it really hurts their motivation), and when you ask a notable PVP'er to join staff and help out, the general response is just "lolno", without any clear indication of why not.

The "excuse" or lack of manpower essentially stills holds up. Thinking Silverwind implementation is as simple as just putting a few blocks together is a bit of a null conclusion because it needs a lot more work than just putting the regions together. The major roadblock has always been, and is still the regulations that aren't worked out. I had a meeting with PVP'ers over half a year ago about said regulations, but they were never fully ironed out, and frankly, there's also an aspect of personal confidence involved.

Somewhere between the lines of then and before and now, given the unending barrage of criticism and demonisation of the Roleplay focused staff and myself, it becomes more appealing to just let sleeping dogs lie instead of trying to help the PVP'ers who (more specifically myself) nail you to the cross for the slightest of mishap. More specifically relating to myself, for a large number of PVP'ers it's more comfortable to blame me for some issue that they perceive to be the case, even though often I have had the slightest if any involvement in the matter. It's an endemic problem when I read into threads like these, I get sort of excited and I agree with a bunch of the first posts, and then it just starts sliding down a slippery slope when the cynicism and staff-blaming about halfway into page 1 and 2. At that point my first response is to just close the thread and start working for a segment of the community that is simply far more rewarding to work for.

Manpower is still a problem. But atmosphere is too. The best solution to this situation is literally for someone to stand up and say "Marty, let's work on this together, I'll get the regulations done, and you can get the regions done." Literally anyone can join Game staff and achieve that (as long as they pass the initial requirements of course) but I'm not even opposed to a non-staff assistance group that just helps me with the implementation. Alternatively, some act against the atmosphere can also be made. It's nice that a lot of PVP'ers are a lot more mature and fair in their argumentative manners, but that only works halfway. It'd also be nice if those more constructive people spoke out against the incessant passive aggression that some people vomit out that serves no purpose but to ruin staff motivation to do anything to solve the problem.

After all, and I keep saying this: I don't really want to reward someone who shows me no regard, respect or decency, with my time and effort. Does that mean that a number of people are just ruining it for everyone else? Most certainly. But Marty! you should just man up against these assholes! Well, I do in the role-play department, but the difference there is that I feel like I have actual support to do that. I just don't here. It'd be nice to see a survivalist defend you for once so you can spend more time on working on the server instead of constantly having to defend yourself from allegations.

TL;DR

What remains to be said on this thread: I'm personally in favor of pretty drastic measures in the PVP community but I don't have much say or interest in the matter as a whole. That being said, I think it would be productive if roleplayers in general stopped arguing with the content of this thread, @Parz1vol in particular. Roleplayers lack the perspective or knowledge to have a valid opinion on a community of gameplay that does not affect them in any way, and you're just segwaying the thread into the specifics of statements instead of looking at the suggestions.

Why should someone who just lulls around in the sewers have any say about how a PVP'er plays around with MCMMO? These threads get bogged down too often with roleplayers trying to argue about things they have no clue about. Let's keep it productively on track and keep the roleplayers out of the matter.

Stop derailing the thread.

 

[_Erebos_]

I know this is an unpopular idea for pvpers, but maybe not for nonpvpers. Remove items dropped on death. This would encourage nonpvers to maybe PvP and not worry about losing everything every 20 seconds. I know this defeats the whole reason to try and stay alive, but when you're starting out new to pvping, you don't want to lose everything. I know that when I pvped for a little bit, I used to die a lot with a god wep and a full inventory of pots, this usually discouraged me from going back out there since I would just keep losing stuff. Maybe turn off items dropped on death and see if there's more PvP?

 

[SubscriptShark]

I think I need to clarify some points to this regard. It's sadly a recurring problem that somehow people perceive the staff differently than it is.

The great thing about Massive Staff is that it's highly compartmentalized between departments that each have their own levels and areas of expertise and authority. Obviously, PR staff won't get involved with building, and Lore won't get involved with faction rule enforcement. The simplicity of the "excuse" (if you can even call it an excuse, because that sounds really accusatory), is that there isn't enough manpower for such a thing, but that's only a half truth.

The way World staff works is that most of them can only really be employed to work on what they want to work, if I ask a sewer roleplayers to build me a palace, they are probably not that interested in the final outcome of the matter. I think out of all the World staff I have available right now, only Jaehaerys is actually a survivalist, the rest to my knowledge are 100% roleplayers who don't leave Regalia and don't care about building in the survival worlds unless it's absolutely crucially important for the server.

The problem with the rhetoric of "xyz rebuilds" and "xyz reforms" that happened in Regalia as opposed to the survival worlds falls that down same rabbit hole, namely the assumption that you can just take the whole clump of staff as a numerical value and call that manpower. The reality of the matter is that representational, within the compartmentalized staff there is a very clear distinction about who works primarily with the survival worlds in mind, and who works primarily with roleplay in mind.

Unfortunately that relation is about (at a very quick glance) 12 out of 57 staff members, or about 21% which are "in favor" of working for the survivalists. Of this number, about 2 out of 57 staff members, or about 3.5% of staff, are actually "World builders who are tentatively from the survival world". Is it the staff fault that this is the case? Are we intentionally recruiting only roleplayers? Well, personally, I'd say yes, since I purposefully only recruit roleplayers for my departments, but that loops back to the idea of compartmentalization. I have responsibilities that are almost unique assigned to the roleplay communmity. So why does this not exist for the PVP community?

Beats me. The PVP staff members that we did have were either bullied off the server, or out of the PVP they so love, faction survivalists get verbal abuse hurled at them (like the amount of times we see "lol who are they" when some new staff gets recruited is insane, and it really hurts their motivation), and when you ask a notable PVP'er to join staff and help out, the general response is just "lolno", without any clear indication of why not.

The "excuse" or lack of manpower essentially stills holds up. Thinking Silverwind implementation is as simple as just putting a few blocks together is a bit of a null conclusion because it needs a lot more work than just putting the regions together. The major roadblock has always been, and is still the regulations that aren't worked out. I had a meeting with PVP'ers over half a year ago about said regulations, but they were never fully ironed out, and frankly, there's also an aspect of personal confidence involved.

Somewhere between the lines of then and before and now, given the unending barrage of criticism and demonisation of the Roleplay focused staff and myself, it becomes more appealing to just let sleeping dogs lie instead of trying to help the PVP'ers who (more specifically myself) nail you to the cross for the slightest of mishap. More specifically relating to myself, for a large number of PVP'ers it's more comfortable to blame me for some issue that they perceive to be the case, even though often I have had the slightest if any involvement in the matter. It's an endemic problem when I read into threads like these, I get sort of excited and I agree with a bunch of the first posts, and then it just starts sliding down a slippery slope when the cynicism and staff-blaming about halfway into page 1 and 2. At that point my first response is to just close the thread and start working for a segment of the community that is simply far more rewarding to work for.

Manpower is still a problem. But atmosphere is too. The best solution to this situation is literally for someone to stand up and say "Marty, let's work on this together, I'll get the regulations done, and you can get the regions done." Literally anyone can join Game staff and achieve that (as long as they pass the initial requirements of course) but I'm not even opposed to a non-staff assistance group that just helps me with the implementation. Alternatively, some act against the atmosphere can also be made. It's nice that a lot of PVP'ers are a lot more mature and fair in their argumentative manners, but that only works halfway. It'd also be nice if those more constructive people spoke out against the incessant passive aggression that some people vomit out that serves no purpose but to ruin staff motivation to do anything to solve the problem.

After all, and I keep saying this: I don't really want to reward someone who shows me no regard, respect or decency, with my time and effort. Does that mean that a number of people are just ruining it for everyone else? Most certainly. But Marty! you should just man up against these assholes! Well, I do in the role-play department, but the difference there is that I feel like I have actual support to do that. I just don't here. It'd be nice to see a survivalist defend you for once so you can spend more time on working on the server instead of constantly having to defend yourself from allegations.

TL;DR

What remains to be said on this thread: I'm personally in favor of pretty drastic measures in the PVP community but I don't have much say or interest in the matter as a whole. That being said, I think it would be productive if roleplayers in general stopped arguing with the content of this thread, @Parz1vol in particular. Roleplayers lack the perspective or knowledge to have a valid opinion on a community of gameplay that does not affect them in any way, and you're just segwaying the thread into the specifics of statements instead of looking at the suggestions.

Why should someone who just lulls around in the sewers have any say about how a PVP'er plays around with MCMMO? These threads get bogged down too often with roleplayers trying to argue about things they have no clue about. Let's keep it productively on track and keep the roleplayers out of the matter.

Stop derailing the thread.

Click to shrink...

Are there any pvp staff still Just wondering?

 

[MonMarty]

Are there any pvp staff still Just wondering?

Click to shrink...

PVP staff was shut down after the last ones either left the server or got fired for inactivity essentially.

 

[Ieso]

cool

 

[Zacatero]

Are there any pvp staff still Just wondering?

Click to shrink...

PVP staff was shut down after the last ones either left the server or got fired for inactivity essentially.

Click to shrink...

Gethelp had also said there was a lack of work to be done.. as only one person should balance mechanics, he wasn't left with many other ways for the pvp staff to get points. At one point he had somebody build an arena just so they could maintain their rank since there wasnt anything else to do

 

[FireFan96]

Maybe turn off items dropped on death and see if there's more PvP?

Click to shrink...

Koth has no item drops on death, which is the PvP gamemode that I frequent on the server. It's mostly because I actually don't have a lot of resources in my vault that I can easily replace in survival, in one way or another. I've been doing koth mostly to get into the basics of PvP, which I'm still crap at. But eventually I'll stock up on enough pots to actually start doing PvP the right way, and maybe if I get to it might try and go on a raid with one of the factions I'm allied with or something.

Anecdote aside, players should lose items in survival, since that's the risk that's run. Koth removes this, making it a decent place to get some "practice" with PvP

 

[SubscriptShark]

PVP staff was shut down after the last ones either left the server or got fired for inactivity essentially.

Click to shrink...

Ah,Well i dont know how toxic the community can be, since ive never seen pvp chat soyeah

 

[Conflee]

<snip>

Click to shrink...

Maybe it would work to just, mandate occasional survival events every once and a while? Get one or two world staff and tell them to build something, then have a roleplay and some game staff make something happen? A suggestion that was lost in one of the many many old threads was doing PVP tournaments and stuff. Could be reigned for safety with interferences being jailable, ETC with a lore/regal prize in the end.

Or, I have been loving the whole PVE Events with their story plot that the Game/Event/PR? (Idk which departments have been behind it fully sorry) have been doing with the Baneful king. Maybe tossing a few of those into Survival instead of Event, then you can restore the land after so it doesn't permanently claim a chunk of land people might use otherwise, etc?

At the end of the day it is World's job to build, and they get points out of it, so even if it isn't in Regalia they really shouldn't have major issue with assigned tasks like that.

 

[CrazeCow]

Here is my response to your mention of the EA @Sevak.
Just as you had stated, the EA was a fantastic idea enstated by BlackMerc. We Were that Empire that everyone is seeking to be able to form with this long waited for plugin. When I was first handed Enigma, Merc also handed me management of the EA which at this point was already only Enigma and Tyberia as Afrovia had died out. I had went inactive due to a move IRL and lack of wifi and other miscellaneous reasons. Upon my return I was given back leadership as well as the EA again. While the EA isn't technically dead, its dead. Its simply Enigma with a small member count and Tyberia which even they themselves have admitted, is dying. I've been making many strives to bring back not only Enigma, but also the EA. In the past month I've been back I had set plans into motion and ideas that already are benefiting Enigma. We can't stay the same forever so I've done away with our old walled districts and even started a new town which will be much more appealing as well as more raidable. This ties into the fact that while I may not be good at PvP, I want it. PvP was a big part of the Massive community and its basically been dying as stated here and many other places. My plans have actually been working and we've gotten rid of what we needed and started the new town. I've changed rules and such, I've made this my Enigma, a new Enigma that people like. People seem to not realize that I am not Merc and that What people know about Enigma has changed greatly. With this being said, I'm also working on the revival of the EA. I want it not to be an alliance of huge mega factions that we were, but rather to now be our allies that know how to work together and can get along with us. I plan to talk to many of our long time allies whom I know and can trust and will test their dedication. I want to re-enstate the EA different in hopes to actually bring back more raids, Whether it be raids on us or raids we go on. Factions have allies for a reason, not just to have purple names and be able to talk crap in ally chat. In short, I want PvP and I want more engagement among allies in the way they were intended to be used.

Basically, Enigma walls are gone and the EA is being brought back.

 

[SubscriptShark]

n

Here is my response to your mention of the EA @Sevak.
Just as you had stated, the EA was a fantastic idea enstated by BlackMerc. When I was first handed Enigma, Merc also handed me management of the EA which at this point was already only Enigma and Tyberia as Afrovia had died out. I had went inactive due to a move IRL and lack of wifi and other miscellaneous reasons. Upon my return I was given back leadership as well as the EA again. While the EA isn't technically dead, its dead. Its simply Enigma with a small member count and Tyberia which even they themselves have admitted, is dying. I've been making many strives to bring back not only Enigma, but also the EA. In the past month I've been back I had set plans into motion and ideas that already are benefiting Enigma. We can't stay the same forever so I've done away with our old walled districts and even started a new town which will be much more appealing as well as more raidable. This ties into the fact that while I may not be good at PvP, I want it. PvP was a big part of the Massive community and its basically been dying as stated here and many other places. My plans have actually been working and we've gotten rid of what we needed and started the new town. I've changed rules and such, I've made this my Enigma, a new Enigma that people like. People seem to not realize that I am not Merc and that What people know about Enigma has changed greatly. With this being said, I'm also working on the revival of the EA. I want it not to be an alliance of huge mega factions that we were, but rather to now be our allies that know how to work together and can get along with us. I plan to talk to many of our long time allies whom I know and can trust and will test their dedication. I want to re-enstate the EA different in hopes to actually bring back more raids, Whether it be raids on us or raids we go on. Factions have allies for a reason, not just to have purple names and be able to talk crap in ally chat. In short, I want PvP and I want more engagement among allies in the way they were intended to be used.

Basically, Enigma walls are gone and the EA is being brought back.

Click to shrink...

now we need 20 more of thjese

 

[BenRekt]

I know this is an unpopular idea for pvpers, but maybe not for nonpvpers. Remove items dropped on death. This would encourage nonpvers to maybe PvP and not worry about losing everything every 20 seconds. I know this defeats the whole reason to try and stay alive, but when you're starting out new to pvping, you don't want to lose everything. I know that when I pvped for a little bit, I used to die a lot with a god wep and a full inventory of pots, this usually discouraged me from going back out there since I would just keep losing stuff. Maybe turn off items dropped on death and see if there's more PvP?

Click to shrink...

I love that youre trying to offer a good suggestion, but I can assure you that a change like that would be a huge final nail in the coffin. The point of PvP is that it is competitive. If nobody drops anything, what are we competing for at that point? God armor / weapons are pretty worthless, but at least they can serve as a decent trophy.