What Is Wrong With Pvp In My Opinion (mainly Vampire)

Hello there everyone! I'd like to start this out by saying that I did take an exceptional amount of time in writing out this comment, and did put a fair amount of thought into it. PVP on MassiveCraft is something I care about deeply. I was part of the PVP Squires at one point, and unfortunately had to leave due to some things that came in my life that needed by full attention. When these things arose, I grossly overestimated the time I would need to dedicate, and jumped the gun on leaving the squires so to speak. But that's besides the point, time to get into the meat of the conversation.

I'm not one for immediately opting to take the most drastic choice, the nucluer option if you will. With that being said, I am open to acknowleging what that nucluer option may be, and understanding that at the end of the day, it is an option. I would personally rather identify the issue, and then attempt to explore ways to fix the issue through less drastic means. Since this thread is about Vampire PVP on Massivecraft, I will keep it solely about Vampires. Bringing the discussion of changing traits and mcmmo into this only makes things more complicated.

I'm all for diversity in PVP. I like the idea that people can either play as traits or Vampire. I understand that some people feel Vampires are currently unbalanced as of right now. I too have experienced the raw power of vampires within the last couple of days. While it is true since getting premium I have not attended many raids, I have been on two separate occasions of raids in which I was killed extremely fast by a Vampire, specifically so fast that I could not even finish getting through one drinkable potion to even have a chance of combatting this enemy before I died. By doing a bit of looking around, it appears that the time spent drinking one potion is around 3-4 seconds. That means that 10 hearts of damage were done to me within 3-4 seconds, when I was using the resistance trait specific to the weapon the vampire was using. (SwordResistant for Swords). Note that I am not accusing anyone of anything, but am simply giving all the evidence I can so someone who has not been in a situation like this can have an understanding.

In my opinion, and many others, vampires are in need of a change. The specific change to make them more balanced, range from a damage reductio to completely disabling the plugin. Both of which have been said to be imposible at this moment in time, due to Cayorion's unfortunate situation. That does not mean that we can't continue to theorize and test and present possible solutions. From my experience, solutions being presented, while some of they may not be plausible, do give the Squires great feedback and something to work with. Because when it comes down to it, the Squires only know so much of what the player base want.

Ending my reply, I encourage anyone who is considering quiting to abstain making this decision until we either get a firm reply on what direction PVP on Massive is taking, as in what is hopefully going to be done within the next few months permitting Cayorion's availability, or the combat update of 1.9 becomes clearer. For all we know, 1.9 could offer so much diversity and fixes that the issues themselves clear up.

Thank you to anyone who read this, and of course, have a Massive Day! :)

 

People in the PvP community are begging for big changes to be made within their big demands, one that could change the whole way the server would click and whirr.
And my opinion?
I actually think that's fantastic! :D

McMMo - I honestly say that if changes mentioned by others above are taken and used, the PvP community probably would take off in a running start. "But Anima, you are an RP'r!" Yes, I am. But, here is my point... A lot of my fellow RP'rs have occasionally been saying that raids would be wonderful to try, pretending to be a big-name faction of fear with evil orcish vampyre demon etc., but would end up saying no because their McMMo for weaponry was too low to make an effect, to the point where trying to raid anyone was a suicidal move. There is also the fact that big factions raiding other factions end up being horribly useless, because people like me when end up hiding and just setting off clever traps. That gets annoying, and eventually, extremely boring for both sides. The other raids that I have been seeing happening in PvP chat are between a few factions, quite literally begging the other to come out and make a formidable fight. Raiding new factions are just cruel, and it is almost useless to raid an RP one if an unannounced event is not going on.

Through the past couple of raids that have happened to me within about a month, the whole fight was really bothersome to the other side. We all hid inside the castle, watching them uselessly fire arrows and pearls at our windows and roof to try and find a way in. The only entertainment that ended up surfacing was catching one of them in a trap which took awfully long to kill them. For me, I could just teleport away, going into the darkroom to get more Regals, or into Regalia to roleplay as my new character. But for these guys? They were sort of stuck there. Once we did not come out, they got bored and just threatened to come back another time, setting up a list of demands for us to fulfill before they do. Where I could have just left and had my fun time on the server with fellow characters, they never got theirs because no fighters came out. I have wanted to even try and participate in raids or defenses of my faction on many occasions because it seems fun to try. But you know what? I have the armour needed. I am figuring the traits. I can buy the potions. It takes a highly discouragingly long time to get the McMMo. Hell, pretty sure a lot of other people are the same way. Compensation should most certainly be given to people who have higher power levels, because just to get 700 axes, I spent a week in a darkroom, and a bunch of Regals for axes and armour repairs. It takes a lot of time to get to such a point, so those who gave up all that to get there truly deserve it, even if that money is used to buy a cleaner axe to thrust into my player's face, or a potion to make me watch my hearts slowly get eaten away, or a set of armour that will reflect my un-enchanted arrows.

Vampyre - I have literally never been in combat with one since it has been re-input, so saying anything on that would be absolutely stupid for me.

Traits - My only opinion for it is that it switches up how fights will go, making them sometimes interesting. However, I have once again been in very few fights, and should have this opinion taken with a grain of salt.

TL;DR - If McMMo ends up being replaced somehow, or even removed entirely, people who normally do nothing but hide and RP might join you guys for some fights, actually giving the entertainment you fellas deserve!

Note - I am an RP'r, and my words are highly inexperienced. I just felt like I had to throw out this lil' side. Sorry!

 

If massivecraft were to drop mcmmo, count me out and i'd give all my stuff away. Seems a little extreme but i've worked hard for my stats.

 

That is the major reason we never made that suggestion, however, I had @qgmk bring it up in a staff meeting for me. He told me the idea was shut down pretty quickly because the server would lose many players.

Like @65jes89 said, I think it would be a safe bet that the server would only gain players, instead of losing them. I would go so far as to say the majority of the PvP community (and probably the majority of the MassiveCraft community) would actually enjoy having McMMO removed.

I have said this in Magnanimus, Raptum and Massivecraft teamspeak several hundred times and that is that McMMO is the biggest plug-in holding the server back from having the "massive" wars it used to, because, as you said, entry into PvP would be super easy, and that is exactly what people such as @thor5648 , @65jes89 and I would all like to see. It's not fun being "elitist PvPers" when there are no other PvPers to compete with.

Overall, now that the PvP community is nearly gone/banned/quit, at least in my eyes and many others, this is the time where you could make major changes such as this one would bring many previously inactive players back to the server.

If it's easy to remove McMMO and re-add (I wouldn't know), why not do it for a week or to, and ask for player feedback and see how the players respond to said change. If they don't like it, revert it back, if they do and brings back old players, only good things can happen from there.

 

Well presented.

 

You have my absolute support .

A pizza(minecraft) is great with pepperoni and cheese (vanilla PVp) . If you start adding more ingredients (mcmmo) it's great too , until you add too much ingredients(traits,vampires) , the pizza tastes salty(too much plugins) and disgusting and people don't buy (people don't play massive craft) the pizza anymore .

You see , the traits and vampires now make massive craft a pvp server that is not very skill based , it makes you crack your brains and spend time on perfecting a traits combo to counter your enemies traits build . Vampires is just too OP , speed 5 , jump 5 , and the unlimited food u can get by just hitting players while bloodlusting .

Why not make things simple?A great mcmmo system which gives players a target to achieve yet does not affect pvp in any negative effects . That's all we need .

 

I gotta agree with the arguments against the Vampire plugin. It is one of the main reasons I don't PvP anymore and one of the main reasons for me leaving the server.


^
As you can see my ping holds pretty stable around 120. Sometimes it's a little better and sometimes a bit worse but generally it holds around that 120 mark. Because of this both fighting vampires and even using vampirism is nearly impossible for me because both the person I am fighting and myself are moving so fast we aren't really anywhere near the place my screen says we are due to the lag I experience so almost none of my hits ever connect and I often just end up dying super fast. Also with how quick vampires kill fighting them with traits isn't even an option because as Alj has mentioned you literally die in just a few seconds so that means even just one small mistake and you are dead. Also because of vamps speed 5 if you engage them it's either kill them or you're dead because you're not gonna be able to get away unless you get a really lucky pearl toss that warps you out of view. Just pearling isn't good enough because vamps can also pearl and with their speed they can be right back on your heel right as your pearl lands and of course you won't be able to pearl again for 15 seconds giving the vamp enough time to kill you 4 times before you can pearl again.

Vampirism really has close to 0 negatives. With mcmmo potions they get the same damage intake as a trait user who doesn't use res pots which is quite manageable when also given speed 5 and jump 5 to back off when you're getting comboed and the damage you do is absolutely insane. I had full tank traits on and no joke I was 2 shot by a vamp. 1 hit did 8 freaking hearts there is no way to deal with that I don't care how quick you are at potting that is just ludicrous.

Anyway, I'm not really saying anything a bunch of people haven't already said so I'll just stop here with this. Until something is done about the vampire plugin I will not be coming back to Massive I just don't see the point. Judging by this thread and what Marty has said they have heard our complaints and they intend to fix the issues so when that time comes I will make my return. Until then, so long and thanks for all the good times I had.

:)

 

@thor5648 @BenRekt @65jes89 Back when I was a squire with alj i already suggested to remove mcmmo or to just remove the combat skills of mcmmo in a squire meeting and it got rejected right away lol.

 

Why do you guys think the server starts lagging as soon as pvp starts? Cause of mcmmo and all the maths the server has to process. Like all the damage output, the dodge chances, the critical chances, calculate mcmmo armor damage and then reduce it by 3 times for the armor durability, add to this people that starts super breaking/giga drilling while there's fighting plus the 3 times drop rate and on top of this we have the % of harmstrike, armorpenstrike etc etc. To me this sounds like a lot of things to process for a server all at once. Also dynmap is rendering constantly. Im not an expert with plugins and such but I am pretty sure that if we try to remove mcmmo combat skills, vamps and dynmap just for two weeks and see if there is a difference or not that could solve a lot of problems that the pvp community is facing.

 

i'm a full supporter of removal of the vampire plugin, this is not only destroying the PvP but also scaring away new PvP'ers which are trying to get out there.

I would also love to see the mcmmo plugin get removed, this way more players can jump into the PvP on the server and we will probaly see more fighters out in the battlefield and maybe it actually can increase the performance of the server? (I have no idea if it will)

I'm supporting the idea of removing the vampire plugin and mcmmo for maybe a week or two and see how it goes, the PvP is dying and this is a perfect time to act many people are jumping around all day not fighting a single combat so what do we have to loose?

if people like it keep it, if people don't? change it back let the people decide what they prefer and maybe we can bring the huge fights back with maybe even more and new players? :)

 

I honestly don't know how I would feel about after 3 years of grinding my stats would be for nothing (and I barely passed 10k)... But if it would REALLY help to bring people in, remove it already!

Although I would rather suggest a medieval world without MCMMO only for this purpose. Maybe a veteran only world. Where you would only be allowed there if you met some requirements. Maybe inspired in HCF! Idk just bring something that works for both newcomers and veterans!

 

GamingDunkey is best youtuber

 

I would support the removal of Vampire plugin.
I would support the removal of EITHER mcmmo OR traits . (one has to be kept to keep pvp interesting)
If mcmmo is removed , i'd like to see a reward being given out to players with certain levels of mcmmo levels because of the long hard work and dedication they have put into levelling the skills (possibly some cool stuff ya know what i mean) .

 

Just give like 1r per mcmmo power level. That way it wasn't completely wasted. Maybe some lore/fancy unattainable items for the top player of each mcmmo skillset (pvp and otherwise).

 

Oh lord. Although that is a fun idea, the economy will be ashes at the time this occurs.

 

You do realize that at staff run events, they literally basically hand out thousands of regals.

An example was at the Pinata event where I earned about 2k in less than 10 minutes. I would've earned SO much more had I not logged in as the event was ending.

 

At most the richest player get's a little more than 30,000 regals. I do realize that is a fair amount, but it could be a lot higher. And besides, the player who will get the most is inactive, as are a lot of the people on /mctop. I myself would get something around 12,000 regals. I would say for the most part, people will get less than that.

And bedsides, it would put some money into the hands of role-players as well, because whether people try to or not, through building, harvesting crops, or plain old falling (acrobatics), people inherently train MCMMO.

Note this is not me agreeing with the removal of mcmmo. I am very much still against it. This is only me commenting on the topic at hand.

 

Not really. I personally would only receive around 25,000 regals which is nothing compared to what I made in the darkroom training all my stats.

Anyway I'm obviously against the removal of mcmmo as I honestly don't think it makes that big a difference in PvP. A good PvPer is gonna wreck me no matter what there stats are at and I've been beaten by enough people without maxed stats to illustrate said point. Even stuff like axes armor break doesn't make much of a difference because even at 4400 axes it still takes more than a full inventory of pots to get enough hits in to break someones armor if it's at full durability.

There really is no compensation that I would find acceptable for taking away a years worth of nearly constant grinding.

 

I've probably made around 200-300k darkrooming. By comparison, I would only be reimbursed 13k. That's hardly anything to me, and the economy is already to the point where just about all in game items are worthless anyway.

 

Actually this would help the economy. The more regals in circulation the higher prices should get. Though since this doesn't have a proper supply/demand setup like the real world (here we have endless resources and minimal demand) it may not help, but it won't hurt the economy. Rare stuff will still be rare, there will just be more money to buy stuff with now, and everyone gets a bit from this. The more you've played the more you'll earn - even for roleplayers.

 

Would all of you guys that don't want MCMMO removed, rather have lag? I would say YES to remove lag no matter what plugin would be removed...

 

The economy is really different now with no one wanting to buy god tools because literally everyone has it and faction leaders are even giving it for free to new faction members . God weapons on the other hand sells for a low price and no one seems to want to buy it because of the abundance of it out there with tons of players owning them , and god armour sells well still but its gonna soon be like the rest of the enchanted stuffs , selling really low and hard to go .

 

I've been on other mcmmo servers and none lag nearly as much as Massive does and one of those servers has like a minimum of 10,000 players on at any time. I don't believe that is the issue causing all this lag.

 

Welp Idk then...

 

i just want traits removed so fights become more skill based instead of "Who creates the best tanky / assult trait build "

 

if you want it to be more about skil, removing MCMMO would be waay better then removing traits.

 

traits allows bow spammers to bow spam and i dont see how thats skill based .
With mcmmo managed properly , and having cap damages instead of infinite damage ( like axe with infinite damage against armor if you level it so high ) , we can make it skill based

 

with, or without traits or mcmmo, you can spawm your bow, and by spamming your bow, you won't deal much dmg anyway.

 

stun strike , blind strike , wither strike ,poison strike all on a bow . tell me how thats skill based with an archer spamming that

 

since i'm not a person to rate 'prsa' il just directly ask you. did i say it required skill?

 

@Mecharic @65jes89 @BenRekt @Alj23
I think my thoughts are more focused to absolutely everyone receiving these amounts of Regals, which is my slight concern. Considering I am not too experienced economically, it probably is less of an effect than I think, but I am just a little worried at the thought of 2,000 people getting somewhat 'big' amounts of money {assuming a whole lot of people have more than 2,000 McMMo, and that we all have very different definitions of 'big'}. Events I feel are not as bad just because it focuses to a smaller amount of players, and not everyone at the same time. I thank you for correcting me nicely, though. My statement did seem less of an opinion than it should have. ouo

 

Everyone getting a large amount of money *should* make everything cost more which would be good for sellers. Less good for buyers.

 

Nah, on any other server / any other economic-based game, your concerns would be totally valid, however MassiveCraft has a "unique" (It's broken to be honest) economy.

 

The uniqueness of MassiveCraft's economy is that it is free of server shops, the staff don't price fix, and it's completely player driven. MassiveCraft probably has one of the most advanced economies of any factions/economy server out there. And it's not even our main focus as a play style.

What you percieve as the economy being "broken" is because of the nature of the game Minecraft itself. Anyone can go out and do anything just like the next person. There also isn't any difference in the quality of items. The diamonds I sell in my shop are the exact same someone else sells in their shop, and can be used to do the exact same thing. If there were different variations of diamonds for example, that could be achieved by some process such as combining low tier diamonds to create higher tier ones that are of better quality, then you could charge more/less depending the economy.

What I think the staff were referring to in part when they said the economy is unique is that players are not constrained to specifically selling in game items to make their money. MassiveCraft's economy, at least the secondary sectors and above, are more like real life economics. People have the ability to create businesses and actually succeed in them, whether it be providing materials in bulk or providing a service. Bdg67's darkroom business is proof of that. He's made over 100,000 regals just from providing access to a darkoom and some additional facilities, because there was a market for it at the time.

 

Look at what I initially posted , i wanted it to be skill based

 

may i ask you to remove that totaly unneeded rating? thank you very much. you should be the one that has to read the subject again

 

Well, the first thing to be remover should be lag xD I havê like 150 TPS at most times, and I can't PvP really well. I tried to 1v1 @feiooos and @JepTheLegend, and I just couldn't do it. While feiooos didn't havê lag, Jep did havê a lot of lag, which screwed the match for both of us, Causing for us to have to stop in the middle, because We could barely see if We were hitting each other. I know, now you say: Oh yes, but their skill is bigger/better than yours. Oh yes, I know, I didn't say it isn't, because the only way to get better at something is trying harder, fighting with people who are better than us.
I know I am not much of a PvPer but I always thought traits were /cheesy/, and who likes cheesy cheese on that pizza? McMMO in the other hand is another plugin, but which I consider it's a good plugin. Not only you can max it up darkrroming, but also in a warzone with some allies and friends! The vampire plugin is a hard topic for me, considering I am not into it :P

 

Read my initial reply , what I very first said. I said I wanted traits removed so pvp becomes more skill based , all these while I have been discussing about pvp becoming more skill based . YOU should read the subject again and not abuse ratings

 

Indeed traits should be removed , also you were pvping in bright shore right? They have lots of builds which could be the reason to the lag