Massivecraft Pvp - What Is Fun, What Is Not, And What Should Change?

[MonMarty]

This is basically a compilation thread to generate some ideas on what to do for the PVP scene in MassiveCraft to make PVP more fun. Lately we have been focussing on roleplay a lot (mind you after spending more than a year on PVP) but it seems the PVP "fun" has been breaking down due to external matters such as MCMMO having bugs and what not.

I'd like to ask anyone to vent ideas, reasons and solutions to the problems of roleplay here. This thread is not meant to start discussions, I simply want to hear what people have to say, I will delete replies that only combat other people's opinions without presenting anything useful.

I'm looking for stuff like:

PVP is boring because:

• It happens too fast.
• Potions are OP.
• MCMMO is OP.
• The PVP rules are too strict.

PVP can be fixed by:

• Reducing the damage bonusses on MCMMO severely.
• Making it so you have a chance to drop a potion when you try to drink it in combat.
• Drop MCMMO and recode it in a more MassiveCraft friendly manner.

If you are going to identify a problem, please give us as much information as possible. Just saying "MCMMO OP" doesn't help us at all, we need to know why it is so.

 

[operationguard]

I think MCMMO is not op, and should NOT be removed, but for new players going against people with 1000 axes or swords is a bit overpowered. Not sure of a solution

 

[MonMarty]

I think MCMMO is not op, and should NOT be removed, but for new players going against people with 1000 axes or swords is a bit overpowered. Not sure of a solution

Click to shrink...

This is a completely unhelpful post, and funnels to what I meant with not wanting discussions about certain opinions. I am interested in hearing problems, not hearing reasons why the problems presented aren't problems.

 

[Ironhippy]

Well Mon, the only issue that I have with PvP and McMMO is knocking weapons out of your hand. People with really high unarmed skill could easily win a fight because the other side lost all of their weapons.

 

[DankeeYankee]

-snip-

Click to shrink...

MCMMO is kind of over-powered as the higher power-leveled player almost always wins in many fights. Most people actually want to have a chance to fight back when the get raided and they can't. It would be great for a balanced system where everyone is equal with pvp.

But...the only problems is that we ALL have to comply with the system including all of the people who have over 20,000 power level.

 

[Kikopuz]

MCMMO is fine, every plugin has its bugs and glitches once in a while. If MCMMO keeps getting nerfed, you might as well remove it all. In my opinion it adds alot to the massivecraft faction pvp experience. Solution: don't fix anything and keep it the way it is.

 

[Ddafad]

I think that MassiveCraft should have its own go at coding a plugin similar to McMMO, because it will help the server gain credibility and a more unique atmosphere.

This is my own opinion and I am not speaking for any other person but myself. So please, don't hate.

 

[SilverAlbatross]

• Problem: Combat is extremely fast. Solution:If we reduced damage factors OVERALL (including base stats) by about tenfold, people won't drop like flies (equating to 100 health, say). Instead, it would be like a proper battle.
• Problem: Armoured opponents with level-30 enchants have almost triple health, in some cases. Solution: Armour increases should be quartered, in my opinion, due to the high popularity of "OP" enchantments.
• Problem: Combat can be unrealistic at times. At the moment, you can hit someone from about 12 foot away (if you use the logic Steve = 6 foot, 2 blocks = 6 foot), and slash them with your sword about 5 times a second. Solution: Possibly decrease weapon range and swinging speed. Then, maybe people would rely on smart tactics more than wildly clicking and mcMMO.
• Problem: Many people state mcMMO is too hard to grind up, and end up having to surrender many times in wards. Solution: Lower level boundaries in mcMMO, so players can get to at least a decent level without spending months in a darkroom.

(MonMarty: Made an easier layout of this suggestion.)

 

[TheTerrawr]

MCMMO is mainly complained about by the newer players who do not have a way to combat it. I do not belive that it is OP, but that somehow some of the features do need to be nerfed such as the damage increases on the weapon skills but not compleatly removed. Maybe lower the caps so that the newer players can easily achive them without spending months sitting in a darkroom somewhere not being able to do a thing. Also i know this is not going to be popular, but changing the "Only prems can wear diamond armor" to "Only prems can wear ENCHANTED diamond armour" allowing those who cannot donate to at least stand a slight chance when it comes to the PVP scene on massivecraft. Just my idea.

 

[TwoTenPvP]

I really want vampires back. But i want the bloodlust to be reduced. They was too OP before.
Thats the only reason i know that makes PVP boring atm

 

[MonMarty]

Do not get all hot and bothered about what I posted in my reply, they were simply suggestions, think before you reply about the actual problems instead of posting stuff I don't want to hear.

 

[Hydralisk1994]

I think when you first join Massivecraft, you should get a 50% damage reduction for a week. That way the new people are not instantly killed by the experienced players who have 5,000 axes and such. Would you play a server if you were killed every two seconds and could not do anything about it?

 

[Cata]

To be honest about this, PvP is now back as it was before, because MCMMO is now fixed, and the counters are nerfed, so actually anyone can now have a fair fight.

PVP is boring because:

• Everyone has "God" Weapons and "God" Armor (Which won't ever break anymore because now, noone is able to tank anymore so that is why the actual prices for Books&Enchants has went that much down in my opinion.)

PVP can be fixed by:

• It doesn't have to be severly fixed... unless you guys want to bring "God" Apples back so people actually make good use of their Unbreaking Books to make pieces of armor they lost, but that would still make it unfair for people that have just actually started.

So this is my opinion. PvP doesn't have to be fixed unless there will appear more MCMMO Bugs that would make it unfair as it has been for the past 3-5 weeks.

 

[operationguard]

This is a completely unhelpful post, and funnels to what I meant with not wanting discussions about certain opinions. I am interested in hearing problems, not hearing reasons why the problems presented aren't problems.

Click to shrink...

What I am saying is MCMMO should not be removed, and that for new people is can be difficult to get anything done...
chill

 

[MonMarty]

What I am saying is MCMMO should not be removed, and that for new people is can be difficult to get anything done...
chill

Click to shrink...

The point is that I pointed out in the first post that I want to hear problems and solutions, I don't want to spend my afternoon sifting trough a bunch of unhelpful replies that get us nowhere.

To be honest about this, PvP is now back as it was before, because MCMMO is now fixed, and the counters are nerfed, so actually anyone can now have a fair fight.

PVP is boring because:

• Everyone has "God" Weapons and "God" Armor (Which won't ever break anymore because now, noone is able to tank anymore so that is why the actual prices for Books&Enchants has went that much down in my opinion.)

PVP can be fixed by:

• It doesn't have to be severly fixed... unless you guys want to bring "God" Apples back so people actually make good use of their Unbreaking Books to make pieces of armor they lost, but that would still make it unfair for people that have just actually started.

So this is my opinion. PvP doesn't have to be fixed unless there will appear more MCMMO Bugs that would make it unfair as it has been for the past 3-5 weeks.

Click to shrink...

This is a good reply. It underlines an issue, a solution and a different angle we can work with.

 

[TheKingPoseidon]

Alright i would say remove MCMMO, But calm your tits now, not all the mcmmo skills only the combat skills. I know im a genius.

 

[TheKingPoseidon]

Because it ruins all the skill require to pvp, basically you can kill a pro in vanilla pvp just because you have better mcmmo. It should be about the skills not the time you spend nolifing in the dark room.

 

[FubeTheMangler]

Personally I think it would be stupid to remove McMMo since many people play on this server just because it has It's McMMo, I don't think Potions are op Either, I could agree with that the fight's go to fast, personally I think that all would be solved by just make the damage from McMmo lower.

 

[Imboring56]

First off, I think that skills should decrease from lack of use while online. If you haven't used or trained Acrobatics, for example, in a long time, then it needs to start going down, because you're not going to be the same nimble person a year later without trying it. My reasons for this:

1. It narrows the gap between the experienced players and the new players.
2. It encourages specialization which is good for the in-game economy and factions.

Second, a configurable max power level would be interesting, with a /recall function that takes all of the skills back so that you can respend them. Reasons:

1. It will force people to spend their attributes wisely.
2. It's not fun to have master farmers, archers, swordsmen, and acrobats running around, nor is it even remotely realistic.

Third, make it so that two skills cannot be met to a certain condition. For example, you cannot have your farming and swords both be above 750. Logic:

1. It will force people to decide on which role they will take.
2. Going back to the last statement, it will increase the potential of the skills, and make it so that the gap between new and old players is lessened.

Comments? Questions? Suggestions? Please post below and I will respond to them. These are just my thoughts on McMMO as while it is a truly benefiting factor on the server, there are problems underneath them.

 

[iMineNewbs]

Just stating my opinion, I think if people don't like mcmmo for the way it is, Why are you fighting? if you get raided either pay tribute, hide in your house, or simply work hard and train in a dark room just like every other pvper has. Besides majority stay at regalia for roleplay so if your being raided just go roleplay if thats what you do aswell. Lots of us worked hard on mcmmo.

I sorta like imborings idea , adding level caps could be a way of controlling it more if thats the route you want to go.. And to what Cata said aswell its mainly because the god armor and massive armor.

 

[SoTotallyAce]

I actually think, now that mcmmo is fixed everything is fine :I

 

[FubeTheMangler]

One thing that would make PVP more fair, would be if ALL enchants would be removed.
And then also make the McMMo pvp stats make les DMG, that would help the PVP alot, I don't think you should take away potions, It's not OP, and mostly people can get it easy.

 

[Legion]

You know what would be a GOOD idea, im not sure if many people will like this, but make it so there is classes and you choose your class from the start and get bonuses for using stuff for that class
(example) Knight - Diamond armor = higher armor resistance
Barbarian - Axes = higher damage
and you could level up your class, but it would progress much faster, and each class could have skills.

 

[DankeeYankee]

You know what would be a GOOD idea, im not sure if many people will like this, but make it so there is classes and you choose your class from the start and get bonuses for using stuff for that class
(example) Knight - Diamond armor = higher armor resistance
Barbarian - Axes = higher damage
and you could level up your class, but it would progress much faster, and each class could have skills.

Click to shrink...

That sounds somewhat like the trait system they will be implementing at some point.

 

[SoTotallyAce]

That sounds somewhat like the trait system they will be implementing at some point.

Click to shrink...

It's also just the race's system.

 

[nray93]

Ok here is my take on PVP at the moment:
1. It is as silver said, quite fast (even god armor wont last you really long), which is bad in my opinion.
2. Pvp in raids is mostly decided by prems, as non prems can lose their armor quite easily and if they go without it they mostly get 1 shoted.
3. Most people choose elf/dwarf/undead/orcs for combat as they give combat boni.

Some Points that I think might "fix" the points above:
@ 1.+2.
- Nerf mcmmo damage boosters, I mean its okay that they boost damage, but the current damage output is ridicoulus.
@ 2.+3.
- I think the introduction of some race specific combat/support skills via the race pluggin would enhance PVP as it brings new possible tactics and even allows "weak" players to contribute to their team or to win by tactic.
@ 1.
- Also I think that the introduction of the Potion effect resistance (previously ONLY found in OP apples) could make battles longer (note: each resistance tier equals -20% damage, res 5=0% rest damage). In that direction the introduction of chain armor with awesome enchants or special effects (like max health +5, and yes that IS possible according to the sethbling vids) could be interesting (I picked chain as example since its the only armor that cant be repaired on a mcmmo anvil.

Those are my personal opinions on it atm.

 

[LumosJared]

Here's the thing. And I speak more so as a player then a team member here.

I would love Cay to have a go at making his own Massive version of Mcmmo, but the problem is he is one man. That means until he gets it done we would have little to no plug-in updates on Massive. Not worth it to remove and replace a feature that has worked well so far.

Edits however, would be lovely. From my standpoint, one issue is that everyone is a fighter. No mages, the only "different" forms of fighting we can see is ranged bowmen. I've heard whisperings of magic being an actual thing in the future. The addition of a plug-in that allows you to start learning magic at the cost of wearing higher tiered armor and weapons sounds fun to me. Would spice up combat and finally throw a few mages into faction battles.

While the above is things I think would be fun, the main issue people have is that they feel "it's not fair". To an extent I agree. But keep in mind those that solely pvp on this server lose the joy of rping. You can dedicate yourself to one or the other, pvp or rp, or a mix of both, but you can't complain when you lose, if you didn't work as hard as you could. Imo, not something to be ashamed of, if you're using that time to nurture the community and actually interact with people.

Or perhaps that is flawed. Perhaps pvp should not be something you have to sacrifice so much time for. If damage was reduced drastically in mcmmo, it could give "newer" players a fighting chance, if they're clever.

As a disclaimer, this is an issue that needs to be discussed by EVERYONE, because pvp is half (if not more then half) of the server. I'll finish by saying this. In a good video game, the story and combat go hand in hand. In a bad game, they're locked in opposite cells with walls made of Bengal tigers. Rp should influence pvp, not condemn it.

i thnk bows shld be mor powerfl cuse elf rule lawl kthx screw teh rules i have mney

 

[Xskill]

I believe making a new MassiveCraft friendly MCMMO plugin would be much more preferable. It could more easily be patched, updated, and balanced. With the trait system looming on the horizon, I think I would rather have our own plugin that can work with existing plugins instead of having to work around MCMMO and the obvious bugs and issues that are associated with it.

Just so long as I can still summon wolves in the new plugin though. :|

 

[ChrisVenom]

First of all I would like to say: Thank You Monmarty, for giving us the chance to voice our opinion on our Combat.

Anyway...

Throughout my time on Minecraft, I've peaked at many servers, many being quite undeveloped. But Massivecraft, unlike many, is quite experienced and has a flow. There are two servers I play on. Massivecraft and the democratically most popular hunger games server on Minecraft.

Things I've noticed with the PVP there, and here.

THERE:
PVP is smooth.
What I mean when I say "smooth" is; on MassiveCraft, PVP is quite laggy, before people say it's my FPS, it is not, as this still happens at around 80fps.

It seems that regularly, during combat on MassiveCraft, there is a thing that occurs when there is a lot of movement between two players and they start lagging around, then, they are both immune to hits for around 2-3 seconds. Sadly, this is plenty of time for an escape.

Another thing is: MCMMO. MCMMO stats are quite linked together in someway or another. For example salvaging and fishing. Since fishing treasures were disabled, salvaging has been deemed useless, or less important. Also if you wish to keep fishing treasures disabled. Bring "God" apples back. You know, God Apples weren't free, they required hard-to-get items. On average, for those who can consume them, people brought 3-4 God Appless with them which is 24-32 gold blocks which is 192-256 Golden ingots, for JUST 3-4 God apples, not mentioning the the rare gain ability of apples.


Additionally, MassiveCraft is gonna end up having no minerals, also who the hell mines on this server anyway?

Another point is something happened to axes ... 3-4 hits with 250+ axes, strength II pots and maybe a critical = death and this figure comes from an axe on god armour, maybe this strange cause was due to MCMMO bugs, if you say you fixed it, I guess you could ignore this comment.

There are so many suggestions in my head that I can't be bothered to suggest them all. So before I conclude with what's fun and what's isn't about PVP; our staff. I remember Tom1804 and BigBellyBuddah being the only members of staff who PVPed often. We need staff like them who are able to monitor PVP and notice any bugs to improve the server.

PVP is boring because:-
-Battles end too quickly.
-Axes have had a sudden rise in intense damage.
-The unrealism of people punching weapons out of your hand so easily.
-The stupid rules, harassment calls have rose like f*ck.
-Raids are far too one sided, we should have battlegrounds, (no not like an arena) like all the medieval wars that have happened. For example Battle of Hastings, it had formed ranks, people had lines of defences.
-Battles are more modern, no tactics are used.


With your suggestion of MCMMO, I would like to say something to all of your plugins. We have just experienced an annoying era of bugs, that was unacceptable. You can't rely on plugins that you have almost no control of or know nothing about, for example, what if you guys use anti cheat, and it becomes buggy and deemed unusable, people could come in and hack the server. Our plugins should be home made and better than the rest, if your gonna make a new MCMMO please transfer our stats ...

My final note before I sound like the King of Bitching, when you do updates, that affect the way we play, or have the possibility to anger us, you should have polls to confirm if we are happy. After all we should be happy with what we are paying for, or what we are dedicated to,

Thank You.

ChrisVenomZ

 

[Luxor Ignotis]

Pros: I honestly have to agree with you Mon. MCMMo has created PvPers that have taken the fun out of roleplay and Factions (IE: Lord_Archangel, SoTotallyAce, and Jett56 to name a few.) I recall something about a skill tree plugin? That, I believe, would be tons better than MCMMo while still keeping the Roleplay aspect of MassiveCraft alive. Perhaps if roleplay based messages are included with the plugin it will encourage more people to RolePlay. Lastly, taking from Adrian Malakye 's post, this plugin should have features deriving from MCMMo.

Cons: Although this idea is good, we will have to keep MCMMo in the server until this plugin is coded. A plugin of this integrity and complication would take a long time to code, and would cause initial com,plaints due to adjusting players. therefor this could be a bad thing. All in all, I support this, as stated previously this could be both good and bad, keep up the good work!

 

[Commanderkull]

MonMarty PVP is boring because the rules are to strict.
I remember playing massive for the first time an loving the pvp and big raids that you couldn't find on other servers. But now everything has to have a reason to fight. I understand you have to have a reason but that ties the hands of the players who really like pvp that is unchained. No restrictions. After the removal of god apples it became an all god armour god stats fighting. No nonprek would fight them without god apples. No one would fight the stat gods. I don't have a problem with mcmmo right now Besides unarmed, I hope tha can be fixed. Mcmmo should not be removed and not be nerfed. If you reduce the damage done then people with god axe stats will just stand there and wacky your armor off. So that's a bad idea.

 

[FCCarnilord]

The PVP is decently fun, BUT, the disarming and damage dealt to armour factor I feel is quite unfair, considering those who spend about 20 years in a darkroom can break armour in one hit. Also, the disarming factor I'm not a HUGE fan of, it's just quite annoying because its like SWOOP gone. Weapon you spent too much for is their's and your probably not getting it back. Otherwise, I have no other problems with the PVP factor EXCEPT the axes/armour damage, and the disarming factor.

 

[FCCarnilord]

MonMarty PVP is boring because the rules are to strict.
I remember playing massive for the first time an loving the pvp and big raids that you couldn't find on other servers. But now everything has to have a reason to fight.

Click to shrink...

It sort of keeps a limit FROM those extreme PVP-Happy people, and I mean extreme-extreme, and usually so people can't just declare war on everyone just because. Personally I like the reasoning idea, so it's not just an easy way to dislike another person on the server because they declare war because it's there, should be less flame wars, (about the 2 factions at least).

 

[Laach]

PVP is boring because:

• As it has been said multiple times above, PVP happens way too quickly. You can easily take out someone with one hit if you are a good level. This is unrealistic and I think it can be fixed by adding a new aspect based entirely around health. Maybe it would either add more overall health to players, or it can just be a sort of shield that can prevent you from being OHK'd.
• It is near impossible to kill others with a level higher than yours. A player with fully enchanted armor and high MCMMO skills can go through 10 people without taking a single heart of damage. I want their to be a way around this to make it more fair for weak players. Allow something that can easily kill anyone and is widely available. Like making lava work extra well by removing the fire resistance potion. This allows a good amount of strategy as everyone won't just storm castles anymore without thinking first about the possible traps.
• If you won't consider the above suggestion then at least nerf the levels you can achieve in MCMMO. The ways you can do this have already been suggested in above comments.

 

[Cata]

This thread is as bad as i tought.
People that actually don't even PvP or have never PvPed have something to say...
And most of them don't even know what they are talking about.
I heard crap like: one hit if you have a good level.. what?! maybe if you have no armor and that guy made a god bow and trained his ass of to get high archery yes, unless no.

So I guess I'm gonna ask players that have no information about this to just go and read more/test about what they actually talk and not just create the Herd Effect.
oooh! and about the reduced damage...then how can you assasinate people that actually aren't paying attention? let's say 400 years ago... did you have to fight 2 hours with a person? or after you stab him like 5 times he has to die... and because it's Minecraft and Not IRL you can just regenerate or drink a potion.

Thank you.

 

[Blazara]

I personally don't believe that MCMMO is the issue in the slightest:

If your skills are low, it means you haven't trained. If someone has put in the time and effort to train their combat skills, they deserve that edge in battle. It's like putting a fully trained knight against a peasant; it isn't an issue of it being unfair, it's an issue of people not wanting to sink time into training.

Armour however is an issue (to an extent).

As others have said, enchanted gear gives players a huge edge; go to any of the PVP minigame worlds and you'll see people stood in the middle with God Armour that are practically invulnerable to everyone else. The only real solution to this is reducing the effects of armour drastically.

I'm in favour of the reduced damage suggestion; this could make for some more interesting combat in terms of tactics. At the minute combat is about spam-clicking until they stop moving. With reduced damage and weakened armour, it'll likely become more of a "Lunge in, hit, retreat" system; as the other person will actually have time to turn around and respond to the attack (Something which doesn't always happen under the current combat system).

Ultimately, Minecraft isn't a game about PVP. Whatever way you slice it, a lot of changes will have to be made in some way or another to make PVP an enjoyable part of the game.

 

[The Golem]

In my opinion the only things that should be fixed are skull splitter's AoE should start off as very low, and as you get higher and higher the radius increases like
1 = 3block radius
100 = 3.5 block radius
200 = 4 block radius
So on and so forth, maxing at 600 with a six block radius, similar to how sword's counter maxes at 600
Skull splitter is really my only issue with mcmmo as it is pretty large AoE and does lots of damage and shreds your armor, its all-around an op skill. However i will mention i am not a pvper so i would like to see a pvpers opinion on this idea

 

[BenRekt]

Don't hate me for my opinions, everyone has one.

My Problems With PvP:

It goes to quick, Axes do to much damage and there is nothing much you can do about it, besides wearing massive armor and hoping you get lucky and dont get to many Criticals on yourself and die almost instantly.

Solution (This is why you'll hate me, but hear me out):

Add back God Apples. Now that fishing is nerfed, and you can't just throw away gold like it's nothing, thats 8 gold BLOCKS that you have to spend. Of course some nerfing to the God Apples could be added, like less effect time as well as a lower tier of Resistance, just something so you can actually do something against someone who may have the upper hand, more people, or simply better McMMO stats.

P.S. Don't take away McMMO or the combat stats. You'll most likely lose a large chunk of regular MassiveCraft players if you do.

 

[Zero_00]

I have far more fun in siege than I do trying to defend against one MMCO High Stats player. I'm honestly not sure how to go about making a class system similar to siege but I think it would help in the RP and overall enjoyability of PVP. Perhaps it could tie into the traits system. You must be this good at this to level to this class and so forth. I don't think the non combat MMCO things should be altered though. They are honestly a big reason why I play.

 

[Lord_ArchAngel]

Boring bout PvP:
-The McMMO is yet to be fully fixed from what I see. (Unarmed dmg isn't affected by armor, thus armor does crap when facing an unarmed person)
-Everything gets nerfed
-PvP rules is too strict (In my opinion)
-PvP and roleplay aren't mixing together

Suggestions to change:
-Temp remove McMMO is FULLY fixed, than re-adding it
-Honestly, I feel the staff is nerfing everything bout the game now. Yes, its to keep the game " fair" to all players. But its absolutely dumb if all that time you spend to work towards something just ends when you reach it and its nerfed.