Archived Some Pvp Suggestions I Have Heard That Should Be Considered.

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Let me start out by saying that massive pvp is not the most fun at the moment, the fights are too short and it doesn't really require much skill at all.

Vampire: The thing that really made vampires over powered back in the day was the +20% damage while in bloodlust, and also the lag made them near impossible to hit. I am suggesting to re add vampires to the game, without the +20%. Why? This adds more variety to fighting, if you are good enough to dodge potions and hits (Hard to do in no lag, I tested) it can be fun to use, but at the same time not over powered. This also adds another aspect instead of just who lands more hits faster, it is about strafing and jumping to where you opponent can't hit you, but also taking care not to get destroyed by wood counter attacks and potions of light.

Make the +50% mcmmo to +20%: Just do /mctop axes. Nuff said. It is allowing people train to extreme levels in no time at all.

God apples:I know this one draws a lot of controversy because of how "over powered" they are in 1.6 and 1.7. The thing is, is that no one really has god apples, everyone got rid of theirs when they were removed. I believe adding a 5 minute cool down in between eating them, and using the plugin to make them regeneration IV instead of regen VI (like they are in 1.6 and 1.7) would make this situation a lot better. Also re adding them would make the economy drastically better, adding a new aspect of gold, which is unobtainable by any other way then mining.

Cannons breaking down walls for 2 minutes when using diamond blocks: This would add new aspects to raiding, and also make it a lot more fun, so people can actually charge into bases and have a fight. Of course it is still possible to hide in a bunker under ground if you don't want to fight.

Archery:If there is a way to make it do more damage, please do it it.. :/ It currently does 1/2 heart with 1,000 archery mcmmo and a power5 flame1 punch 2 bow. It isn't effective for those who's fighting style revolves around it...

If you like something, say below, or if you think something could change or has a problem with it, please post and say.

Well these are my suggestions to make MassiveCraft PvP a bit more fun and requiring skill, hope you guys like them . :)
 
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Jared4242 said:
It's difficult to code, but god would I love to see more weapons in minecraft, with a reworked and corresponding massive version of mcmmo, to be updated and tweaked as we see fit.
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๖ۣۜI went and decided to look up the topic a bit.
*Clears his throat* Ahem...

Supposedly, after 1.7.2, remember it being a large update?
Almost everything in MC is getting re-coded.
No joke. Very few coding lines were left as they once were.

Mods are also being given higher and higher access in MC, with even select-able profiles (As seen with Forge), as we are noticing as well.

This is probably a rare chance of happening, but I personally have been hearing a rumour tossed around that before Notch and the Mojang Team finish coding MC for the last time...
They might add a form of full scale modifications. Thought plugins were cool? It's kinda like that.
Only you can texture it and everything. Even give it sounds that aren't originally from MC. Thought pigmen were terrifying? Code in a monster in the shape of your grandmother who pinches you cheeks every holiday she sees you. Now that can be cool.
And not everyone will need the mod! It's basically a mod everyone on the server can see and interact with, no matter what.
Sadly, as I stated, it is being a debating 'rumour', but I thought I might as well toss it in. Never know, it might have potential at some point. Now, to actually get on topic...
Unluvable said:
So for you to make the claim that Snake 's proposition of nerfing axes is off-topic is a bit ridiculous, and a little paranoid sounding. The whole McMMO bonus needs to go, but the damage that has been done already... there needs to be something done about that too, I think. Yeah, you can keep your little number, but nerfing axes is long overdue, and is a good start.
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I agree with this greatly. Conversation of people with it stating how unfair it is really is true. It's rather boring when I walk into a battlefield and have previously had my iron armour completely torn before I even died. That isn't helping a bit. Keep the shredding of armour? Sure, but it has to be lowered a lot. But I want Axes to have a use, for example their boost in damage, I don't want it nerfed too much. There is a difference between balancing it, and completely ruining it. You might want to be slightly careful of what you wish for, because you might get it.

Yes, I have been told, "You're a RPer, you have no say here," Well, I disagree, I PVP too, I'm just not screaming and hopping about on the details of doing it. I might have low McMMo, but I still love to fight, and I know a thing or two about it... :c
 
Jared4242 said:
Personal opinions here, not representing the teams view as a whole or anything...

I would love, love, LOVE to see archery get more damage. At the moment, it's still damn useful to be able to daze people. Makes going in for the kill with your preferred melee weapon easier, with your enemy essentially drunk. I think the main issue with Massive pvp at the moment, as with all pvp in minecraft, is variety. Swords, Axes, or bows. Unarmed can be considered, but is seen as a tad cheap. Even archery, something I revolve all my combat around, can't stand up to a suicidal axeman who can shrug off my arrows with ease. It's difficult to code, but god would I love to see more weapons in minecraft, with a reworked and corresponding massive version of mcmmo, to be updated and tweaked as we see fit.

The overlying issue is tech. We have Cayorion and no-one else, essentially, who can work on Massive's tech achievements. At the moment we're delving deeper into the potential with Massive Quest. On a personal level, I feel pvp needs to be fixed with the creation of a Massive version of mcmmo, with more weapons, improved combat variety, and the implementation of that "Traits" plug in that's been whispered about. That's my opinion, that's what I think should come first. But at the moment, it seems MassiveQuest with world development on the side is what we're mainly pouring our efforts into.

This sucks for our more fight loving playerbase, myself included. We can certainly adress some of the easy issues (Vampire re-introduction and archery boosting is possible, God Apples and Canons destroying blocks is simply not going to happen) but the underlying issue is going to either take a lot of time, or a shift in the Team's efforts. Assuming it's the first option, we'll likely get the Massive Quest plugin rolling, then begin to iron out pvp mechanics later.

But the difficulty is getting the people who have the power to facilitate change to understand that what YOU see as the most important issue, in this case shitty pvp, is the issue we must focus on fixing and improving. Even more difficult to present it in a way that said people with power will actually listen to.
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:D you like the two I like the best, vamp and archery. :D
 
just gonna mention that mcmmo does only have ither 50% more xp 100% or 200% so it cannot get to 20%
 
Recently when only premiums could wear diamond armor issue was to make aneven fight between premiums and non premiums.

One of ideas I was thinking of was to make speed movement penalty...

Someting like this:
diamond armor... 40% speed penalty
iron armor... 20% speed penalty etc...

I would make premiums in diamond armor heavy and slow like crusader knights. If you have strength and protection you dont have speed and reversed.

Daimond armor carriers could be considered heavy infantry and leather armor carriers light infatry.

What I would like to see is light leather armor on battlefield or no armor at all. Everyone who wants to fight looks like a crusader.

Now when anyone has diamond armor we can still implement this idea... only thing that im not sure of is how high sould penalty be...

P.S Sorry for my english
 
No to vampires, those fights were just i laggy and Boring... Mcmmo should keep it the current percent due to the fact that so many players have the current axe skill you mentioned. We all know that big wars with Lots of People are the most fun and realistic, That's why i think we should keep it the way it is so we can train and expand the amount of pvpers on the server more easily and expand our empires in strenght. God Apples, then again no it made you just to tanky...

Everything else i agree on, specially the cannons.
 
Here is what I have to say to this:
1. Monmarty made a statement regarding the mcmmo boost already.
http://forums.massivecraft.com/thre...-the-50-mcmmo-premium-buff.12755/#post-145275

2. Armor Damage should be capped at 1000, no buts, it is extremely op above 1000 and you all know it.

3. Archerys mcmmo bonus just doesnt work in my experience. If it would then a mob shot with 1 bow (unenchanted, full draw) at level 500 should take 10 hearts damage, it doesn´t, it takes 5. A full charged power 5 shot (crit) with archery 1000 should in theory deal 75 DAMAGE (A power 5 crit shot deals 25 damage + 200% of that for archery 1000).:
CAUTION WIKI SCIENCE (source: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor#Enchantments )
EDIT: UNDER CONSTRUCTION
EDIT2: Construction Finished.
Diamond Armor blocks 80% of damage.
God armor has 4*prot 4. Prot 4 has an EPF of 5 meaning a god armor set has a total of 20 EPF.

Minimum Reduction with God armor: 20*0.5 * 4%=40% reduction from enchants. 20% (left from dia armor) * 60% (left from enchants) = 12%% damage left.
At 75 damage this would be 9 damage or 4.5 hearts

Maximum Reduction with God armor: 20*1*4%=80% reduction from enchants. 20% (left from dia armor)*20% (left from enchants) = 4% damage left.
At 75 damage this would be 3 damage or 1.5 hearts.

BUT WAIT, what about undead and home territory and premium?. Lets include those too now. Lets also asume they are calculated in 1 step for simplicitys sake.
Minimum Prot: 9*40% (-15% from prem -15% from undead - 30% from home) = 3,6 damage (1.5 hearts, 2 if rounded up)
Maximum Prot: 3*40% = 1 (0.5 hearts).

Notice something? The only case in which you should get 0.5 hearts damage from a Full charged crit power 5 shot from someone with 1k archery is if you are an undead premium in god armor in your faction land AND have good luck. Yet MOST people report that is only does this amount of damage. Something can´t be right. And I heavily asume that the archery buff infact does not work.
 
nray93 Mr. Mod, isn't mcmmo custom configured on Massive? lol
ANYWAY, if Massive's called itself a medieval server it should have lore complient damage of weapons too. Can anyone imagine someone with 10 arrows in body still fighting without problems? :/ And as Shayin said in first posts.. maybe add critical chance? But still, damage should be increased
 
xReita said:
nray93 Mr. Mod, isn't mcmmo custom configured on Massive? lol
ANYWAY, if Massive's called itself a medieval server it should have lore complient damage of weapons too. Can anyone imagine someone with 10 arrows in body still fighting without problems? :/ And as Shayin said in first posts.. maybe add critical chance? But still, damage should be increased
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Yes it is as far as I know (unarmed for example, is capped at +8 instead of +9) . If you don´t mind would you kindly point out where this would contradict my previous statement?
 
nray93 said:
Notice something? The only case in which you should get 0.5 hearts damage from a Full charged crit power 5 shot from someone with 1k archery is if you are an undead premium in god armor in your faction land AND have good luck. Yet MOST people report that is only does this amount of damage. Something can´t be right. And I heavily asume that the archery buff infact does not work.
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There :P only problem here is not best custom configuration :/

after last archery glitch when you could 1shot people in god armour they decreased damage way too much. And they still did nothing about it. Maybe there's a problem but they can always ask mod creator for a help. But if they decreased it that much I believe they are still able to increase it.
 
xReita said:
There :P only problem here is not best custom configuration :/

after last archery glitch when you could 1shot people in god armour they decreased damage way too much. And they still did nothing about it. Maybe there's a problem but they can always ask mod creator for a help. But if they decreased it that much I believe they are still able to increase it.
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Thank you for pointing that out. So the reason why it isnt the damage I calculated above but 0.5 hearts is because they nerfed the damage bonus so much that it is pretty insignificant now.

In that case I agree that archery needs to be buffed again, just capped at something like 150% or so (since 3/4 hearts damage with a bow against god armor is a tad to strong). Altough personaly I would preffer it if archery just had 1-3 TRUE damage (damage that ignores everything like the damage you get from the void).
 
3 hearts damage to god armour with 1k archery and Power V bow would be (in my opinion) enough and more lore complient.
 
Snake said:
Unluvable Cant agree any more with you. To be honest I enjoy the more xp addition. When Im bired I go and farm my sugar canes for a quick power level increase. But the damage has already been done. The only way to fix this in a manner that is completely fair to everyone would be wiping out all levels that were acquired after the update but that would make a lot of people complain. I think putting a cap of 1000-1500 would be the best alternative. The point of pvp is to kill the opponent and loot their items, not to break their armor 4 seconds after the fight their starts to make them run away.

thor5648 Im saying this with my politest non-flame tone. I do not think you understand our point.. sir. This is not about what YOU would like. This is about making pvp better and fair for everyone.
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Players are not forbiden to train axes, since there is 50% buff, they can simply buy premium with ingame silver, if they don't have money irl, and go train. I can see that there is loads of good PvP factions, what have drooms and all kind of grinders. Saying to thor that he is training axes all day long, is kinda offensive, you are active player on massivecraft, and you have ability to train axes, such as him, so I don't see why would it get nerfed.
 
Gardyn said:
Recently when only premiums could wear diamond armor issue was to make aneven fight between premiums and non premiums.

One of ideas I was thinking of was to make speed movement penalty...

Someting like this:
diamond armor... 40% speed penalty
iron armor... 20% speed penalty etc...

I would make premiums in diamond armor heavy and slow like crusader knights. If you have strength and protection you dont have speed and reversed.

Daimond armor carriers could be considered heavy infantry and leather armor carriers light infatry.

What I would like to see is light leather armor on battlefield or no armor at all. Everyone who wants to fight looks like a crusader.

Now when anyone has diamond armor we can still implement this idea... only thing that im not sure of is how high sould penalty be...

P.S Sorry for my english
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Isn't diamond lighter than iron? :P

EDIT
I did math and yup, it is xd
 
nray93 said:
Here is what I have to say to this:
1. Monmarty made a statement regarding the mcmmo boost already.
http://forums.massivecraft.com/thre...-the-50-mcmmo-premium-buff.12755/#post-145275

2. Armor Damage should be capped at 1000, no buts, it is extremely op above 1000 and you all know it.

3. Archerys mcmmo bonus just doesnt work in my experience. If it would then a mob shot with 1 bow (unenchanted, full draw) at level 500 should take 10 hearts damage, it doesn´t, it takes 5. A full charged power 5 shot (crit) with archery 1000 should in theory deal 75 DAMAGE (A power 5 crit shot deals 25 damage + 200% of that for archery 1000).:
CAUTION WIKI SCIENCE (source: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor#Enchantments )
EDIT: UNDER CONSTRUCTION
EDIT2: Construction Finished.
Diamond Armor blocks 80% of damage.
God armor has 4*prot 4. Prot 4 has an EPF of 5 meaning a god armor set has a total of 20 EPF.

Minimum Reduction with God armor: 20*0.5 * 4%=40% reduction from enchants. 20% (left from dia armor) * 60% (left from enchants) = 12%% damage left.
At 75 damage this would be 9 damage or 4.5 hearts

Maximum Reduction with God armor: 20*1*4%=80% reduction from enchants. 20% (left from dia armor)*20% (left from enchants) = 4% damage left.
At 75 damage this would be 3 damage or 1.5 hearts.

BUT WAIT, what about undead and home territory and premium?. Lets include those too now. Lets also asume they are calculated in 1 step for simplicitys sake.
Minimum Prot: 9*40% (-15% from prem -15% from undead - 30% from home) = 3,6 damage (1.5 hearts, 2 if rounded up)
Maximum Prot: 3*40% = 1 (0.5 hearts).

Notice something? The only case in which you should get 0.5 hearts damage from a Full charged crit power 5 shot from someone with 1k archery is if you are an undead premium in god armor in your faction land AND have good luck. Yet MOST people report that is only does this amount of damage. Something can´t be right. And I heavily asume that the archery buff infact does not work.
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There are 103 people with axes above 1000, that wouldn't really e fair to cap it at such a low level when the majority of the pvp community it above that. Personally I'd want a damage reduction instead of a cap, but if a cap was a must I would say cap it at 40 armor damage (I currently do 70)
 
xReita said:
Isn't diamond lighter than iron? :P

EDIT
I did math and yup, it is xd
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๖ۣۜWell, with that in mind, Golden armour would probably be one of the heaviest armours, even though it is the weakest...
Also, do keep in mind though, knights having a plate armour was indeed heavy, but there actually was a video from GameTheory that talked about real life diamond armour, it's weight, all that. They check more than worth with it.
I am suspecting that some people would be using this as a reference as to the weights. Click to time 3:42 as to see what I mean. Plate armour is certainly bearable to wear, but a full set of armour made of Diamond, and if you notice in the texture, iron plating as well, would still be pretty darn heavy compared to the normal plate armour.
 
thor5648 said:
There are 103 people with axes above 1000, that wouldn't really e fair to cap it at such a low level when the majority of the pvp community it above that. Personally I'd want a damage reduction instead of a cap, but if a cap was a must I would say cap it at 40 armor damage (I currently do 70)
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1000 would be a very good level to cap it at. You know.. most mcmmo levels cap out at 750-1000. I think they ALL do. Except fishing bite chance.
 
Snake said:
1000 would be a very good level to cap it at. You know.. most mcmmo levels cap out at 750-1000. I think they ALL do. Except fishing bite chance.
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No offense here snakeeeer, but go look at the top 100 axe people, then look and see that those people make up over 1/2 of the pvp community, I would say cap it at 1.5k so axes are still worth using. (At 1,000 I could break someone ones armor faster by using a sword.. (I tested and just got a few more hits than him and hi broke before mine. Nerfing axes to 20 capped damage to armor they would be used by few, then in the next mcmmo update they are buffing sword and debuffing skull split. Axes would be deemed useless in a month.
 
Snake is right, most mcmmo skills cap out at 1000. 20 armor damage is plenty. It should NEVER happen that a brand new set breaks before you die (Given that you dont regen betwen the axe hits).

The fact THAT so many people have axes above 1000 just further proof of OP it is. I mean people will always try to use the best skills, and currently that is clearly axes since at very high levels it just destroys the armor within 30 seconds.

Edit:
Keep in mind that Sword users and unarmed user aswell as archery user do not get that kind of extreme benefit for going above 1000.
 
Archery does a lot of damage to armour too. Swords are making bleed, axes break armours, unarmed disarms and saves you from being disarmed. All skills haz own benefits, you can't make them equal.
 
nray93 said:
Snake is right, most mcmmo skills cap out at 1000. 20 armor damage is plenty. It should NEVER happen that a brand new set breaks before you die (Given that you dont regen betwen the axe hits).

The fact THAT so many people have axes above 1000 just further proof of OP it is. I mean people will always try to use the best skills, and currently that is clearly axes since at very high levels it just destroys the armor within 30 seconds.

Edit:
Keep in mind that Sword users and unarmed user aswell as archery user do not get that kind of extreme benefit for going above 1000.
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Swords are being buffed to even them put with current axes, so yes it does get extreme ad dons after 1000, and no ones armor full breaks in a 1v1, it usually only happens when it's a big fight the person is splash healing loads, instead of throwing down words, go research and test.
 
thor5648 said:
No offense here snakeeeer, but go look at the top 100 axe people, then look and see that those people make up over 1/2 of the pvp community, I would say cap it at 1.5k so axes are still worth using. (At 1,000 I could break someone ones armor faster by using a sword.. (I tested and just got a few more hits than him and hi broke before mine. Nerfing axes to 20 capped damage to armor they would be used by few, then in the next mcmmo update they are buffing sword and debuffing skull split. Axes would be deemed useless in a month.
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God, how many people had a fishing skill above 1,000 when they nerfed that? Your argument is silly. Just because a ton of people have above 1,000 in a certain skill does not mean that the server's balance should suffer. Rather, it is an indicator that it is unbalanced -- like fishing, it had no cap, and that is being abused. If anything PvP would thrive as the playing field would be leveled, and more players are willing to take on someone with a high axe skill.

And no, you won't break someone's armor faster with a sword, stop making up lies. You don't know how the people at McMMO are going to balance the skills, much less when.

thor5648 said:
Swords are being buffed to even them put with current axes, so yes it does get extreme ad dons after 1000, and no ones armor full breaks in a 1v1, it usually only happens when it's a big fight the person is splash healing loads, instead of throwing down words, go research and test.
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Again, you have no idea how they will balance the skills. It is just as likely that the people at McMMO will nerf axes themselves by placing a cap, it's all really just a matter of when.
 
Unluvable said:
God, how many people had a fishing skill above 1,000 when they nerfed that? Your argument is silly. Just because a ton of people have above 1,000 in a certain skill does not mean that the server's balance should suffer. Rather, it is an indicator that it is unbalanced -- like fishing, it had no cap, and that is being abused. If anything PvP would thrive as the playing field would be leveled, and more players are willing to take on someone with a high axe skill.

And no, you won't break someone's armor faster with a sword, stop making up lies. You don't know how the people at McMMO are going to balance the skills, much less when.



Again, you have no idea how they will balance the skills. It is just as likely that the people at McMMO will nerf axes themselves by placing a cap, it's all really just a matter of when.
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If you would like to come in ts I will give you the ip to my test server where I spent 2 hours making sure everything I put in the post was correct.
 
xReita said:
Isn't diamond lighter than iron? :P

EDIT
I did math and yup, it is xd
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Well I said Im not sure about the penalty and when I was placing armors I was thinking about equal distribution between ratio of protection and speed penalty.

More protection = More penalty

And yeah 500 kg of diamond armor is not easier then 40 kg of iron armor....xD
 
Gardyn said:
Well I said Im not sure about the penalty and when I was placing armors I was thinking about equal distribution between ratio of protection and speed penalty.

More protection = More penalty

And yeah 500 kg of diamond armor is not easier then 40 kg of iron armor....xD
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If this guy did same thing and in the same way with iron armour it would be like 2 times heavier.
 
Unluvable said:
Thor, you are essentially the shining example and reason, among a couple other individuals, why the +50% McMMO bonus for premiums is so totally out of whack. In just a matter of a few days, you surpassed McMuffin55's 2700 axes skill to your now current skill of 3400 axes skill. I personally don't care about the individual scores or the petty McMMO penis measuring contests a lot of the "big PvPers" have, but hear me out:

It must have took at least a few months for McMuffin55 to achieve that 2700 axes skill. Moreover, the way McMMO leveling works, there are significant diminishing returns on experience gained the higher you go in level. For you to be able to edge him out a whopping 700 skill points at the 3k mark in a matter of a few days shows how completely broken this feature is. The problem with this situation is that the damage is more or less irreversible, unless the massive staff are able put McMMO in a time machine before the bonus was taken into place. There needs to be -some- solution to this.

So for you to make the claim that Snake 's proposition of nerfing axes is off-topic is a bit ridiculous, and a little paranoid sounding. The whole McMMO bonus needs to go, but the damage that has been done already... there needs to be something done about that too, I think. Yeah, you can keep your little number, but nerfing axes is long overdue, and is a good start.
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AMEN
 
Also, axes aren't OP at all. Someone would have to kill you probably two times to break a piece of armor. There are already way too many diamonds on the server from how OP fishing was. Leaving axes the way they are helps the economy. Also, with the /fix command for premiums, it's even less of an issue to repair damaged armor. Before you go and say I'm biased with 2700 axes, I have almost completely stopped PvPing so I really don't care if they are nerfed or not, just expressing my point.
 
Quite frankly since in is obvious that god apples will never be added back in as said repeatedly by the staff, a better way at increasing fight time may be to nerf axes armor damage to half of what it is. As well, it will make PVP more accessible as premium RPers that only have lets say 1 set of god gear will be more interested in PVP. Now why are axes OP?

thor5648 said:
Swords are being buffed to even them put with current axes, so yes it does get extreme ad dons after 1000, and no ones armor full breaks in a 1v1, it usually only happens when it's a big fight the person is splash healing loads, instead of throwing down words, go research and test.
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Thor I know personally that armor breaks like toothpicks against axes. You and me the other day were having a 1v1 at oblivion and after what seemed like forty five seconds you retreated. Why didn't I chase after you? My helmet would literally break in 1 or 2 hits. (And I was too stupid to pack pearls :P) As well if you look at the durability of a diamond helmet with unbreaking 3 is 364x1.43= 520.52 520.52/70 which is the armor damage you said you do is 7.436. That is 8 hits. You must have gained insane axes in the last week because you hit me at least double that. As everyone knows after your helm is broken your basically dead. This means that you kill in 8 hits. Regardless of anything they can do, your enemy is as good as dead in 8 hits. If that is not OP I don't know what is.
 
McMuffin55 said:
Also, axes aren't OP at all. Someone would have to kill you probably two times to break a piece of armor. There are already way too many diamonds on the server from how OP fishing was. Leaving axes the way they are helps the economy. Also, with the /fix command for premiums, it's even less of an issue to repair damaged armor. Before you go and say I'm biased with 2700 axes, I have almost completely stopped PvPing so I really don't care if they are nerfed or not, just expressing my point.
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As it stands, the way axes work right now, it actually does not help the economy. Axes have been the way they are now for quite a long time, and the economy has not changed since the fishing nerf. Axes are barely making a dent in the ridiculous amount of diamonds in the server. High axes stops most people from participating in PvP simply because the risk of losing god armor, as well as dying and losing it to someone like you or thor, makes the cost of risk much too high. Moreover, you bringing up the /fix command for premiums actually weakens your argument. People aren't using their diamonds to repair their diamond tools, weapons, or armor; they're using the /fix command.

You guys can keep blocking out reason by sticking your fingers in your ears, screaming, "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU", but you are lying to yourselves thinking that axes aren't OP. The anecdote that Waminer cited, amongst many others, is a common and running gag in all servers that have McMMO. High axes is just ridiculous and goes far beyond the scope of any other weapon skill in the plug-in.
 
Unluvable said:
As it stands, the way axes work right now, it actually does not help the economy. Axes have been the way they are now for quite a long time, and the economy has not changed since the fishing nerf. Axes are barely making a dent in the ridiculous amount of diamonds in the server. High axes stops most people from participating in PvP simply because the risk of losing god armor, as well as dying and losing it to someone like you or thor, makes the cost of risk much too high. Moreover, you bringing up the /fix command for premiums actually weakens your argument. People aren't using their diamonds to repair their diamond tools, weapons, or armor; they're using the /fix command.

You guys can keep blocking out reason by sticking your fingers in your ears, screaming, "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU", but you are lying to yourselves thinking that axes aren't OP. The anecdote that Waminer cited, amongst many others, is a common and running gag in all servers that have McMMO. High axes is just ridiculous and goes far beyond the scope of any other weapon skill in the plug-in.
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The economy hasn't changed because of the ridiculous amounts of diamonds that are in the economy right now and the only way to fix that is through using diamonds. it will take time, but diamond prices have increased. Even if they barely make a dent, it is still making a dent and helping. If you don't want to lose your armor, you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place. When you PvP that is what's going to happen. You will die and you will lose your things. And absolutely no diamonds will be used to repair anything with the /fix command unless all of someones "fixes" are used for that day. So, you need more armor damage in order to get people to use up their diamonds. And yes, I can bold things too.
 
McMuffin55 said:
The economy hasn't changed because of the ridiculous amounts of diamonds that are in the economy right now and the only way to fix that is through using diamonds. it will take time, but diamond prices have increased. Even if they barely make a dent, it is still making a dent and helping. If you don't want to lose your armor, you shouldn't be PvPing in the first place. When you PvP that is what's going to happen. You will die and you will lose your things. And absolutely no diamonds will be used to repair anything with the /fix command unless all of someones "fixes" are used for that day. So, you need more armor damage in order to get people to use up their diamonds. And yes, I can bold things too.
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Please do not conflate "not wanting to lose armor" and "not wanting to lose armor very, very, very easily to someone with a ridiculously high axes skill". These are two very different things. Losing armor is an obvious reality of PvP, but if you lose a named, fully enchanted diamond helmet (let's say that's 16s?) just for one fight, that's just crazy, and yes, people aren't going to want to PvP. That's not their fault. That just plain common sense.

The fault lies in axes' broken and overpowered mechanics. The problem does not lie in someone's unwillingness to part with diamond items, but the fact that the playing field is so skewed towards no-life axe users. Not everyone is filthy rich and has a five digit McMMO score. Axes have not changed, and the market has more or less stagnated. If you sincerely believe that axes are helping in making a dent in the over-saturated diamond market, then that is your belief; I am merely stating that my belief is that you are wrong.

The price of diamonds has increased (barely), perhaps, but the primary cause is difficult to separate from just the natural everyday use by the average MassiveCraft player versus axes actually making a difference or just indeed making things worse. I still see full stacks of diamond blocks going for ~70s in trade and at market.

And I apologize if you were somehow offended by me bolding certain parts of my text. I only mean it to emphasize important key phrases and to propel reading.
 
While I am not a PvPer myself, I'd like to explain my logic here.

What do PvPers often complain about, and what always do fights end up turning out like? They end up being too short.

They are too short for a number of reasons, including:
  • Axes destroying people's armor very quickly, leaving them wide open
  • The removal of god apples makes people die too easily because of overpowered axes breaking armor
  • The removal of bloodlust makes it easier to hit people, making their armor more vulnerable
These three are the main reasons why fights are too short. I will elaborate on each one.
  1. Axes, as Waminer said, can destroy a diamond helmet of Unbreaking III in just 8 hits. And while the majority of others wielding such a weapon would not be able to dish out this much damage, the number of people will only increase as more and more players join the server - as well as more and more players keep on training their skills. This will lead to everybody breaking armor very easily, and making the fights very short due to the fact that you are dead meat out there without any sort of armor.
  2. The removal of god apples due to the update also increased the potential for shorter fights. While the god apples did make it so that you could become invincible by chugging them, they did increase the fights by about a good minute or so. This enhanced the quality of the fighting, and while it did make it seem unfair in the eyes of poorer players, it did make PvP a little more fun in this regard.
  3. The removal of bloodlust a while back is another key aspect in this argument. Bloodlust made it so that it was harder to hit you, leaving less room for both armor and health damage. And while it did seem overpowered at the time due to extreme server-side lag, it actually wasn't considering they could only fight at night and could get killed by holy water or a wooden item very easily.
My solutions to this problem are the following:
  1. We need to bring god apples back in with bloodlust, but with a price. I recommend the use of god apples restricted only to non-vampire subjects, as to prevent the same thing from happening that was occurring before. I'd also recommend vampires unable to use items such as ender pearls or speed potions when they are bloodlusting, due to the fact that they would be impossible to catch by a normal player, even if he/she was a vampire.
  2. God apples should be brought back in with a 5 minute cool down. You can eat one, then fight for a bit, and when you are running out of its effects, you can use ender pearls and speed potions to try and eat another, or just stay there and combat your enemy. This is, as before, to prevent abuse by others.
  3. Axes need to have a cap of 1500. While many have trained their axes over 1000, some even over 2000, the amount of players below that is very big, and you need to put them as the majority first. I think that 1.5k axes will be ok for many of you, and it will still be able to dish out enough damage so that axes are actually worth something. If we don't add a sort of cap, and just nerf it, eventually the players will train up and reach past that nerf, and this entire decision-making process will start all over again. Let's just put an end to this now and take out the overpowered axes.
~ Imboring56
 
Imboring56 said:
While I am not a PvPer myself, I'd like to explain my logic here.

What do PvPers often complain about, and what always do fights end up turning out like? They end up being too short.

They are too short for a number of reasons, including:
  • Axes destroying people's armor very quickly, leaving them wide open
  • The removal of god apples makes people die too easily because of overpowered axes breaking armor
  • The removal of bloodlust makes it easier to hit people, making their armor more vulnerable
These three are the main reasons why fights are too short. I will elaborate on each one.

  1. Axes, as Waminer said, can destroy a diamond helmet of Unbreaking III in just 8 hits. And while the majority of others wielding such a weapon would not be able to dish out this much damage, the number of people will only increase as more and more players join the server - as well as more and more players keep on training their skills. This will lead to everybody breaking armor very easily, and making the fights very short due to the fact that you are dead meat out there without any sort of armor.
  2. The removal of god apples due to the update also increased the potential for shorter fights. While the god apples did make it so that you could become invincible by chugging them, they did increase the fights by about a good minute or so. This enhanced the quality of the fighting, and while it did make it seem unfair in the eyes of poorer players, it did make PvP a little more fun in this regard.
  3. The removal of bloodlust a while back is another key aspect in this argument. Bloodlust made it so that it was harder to hit you, leaving less room for both armor and health damage. And while it did seem overpowered at the time due to extreme server-side lag, it actually wasn't considering they could only fight at night and could get killed by holy water or a wooden item very easily.
My solutions to this problem are the following:

  1. We need to bring god apples back in with bloodlust, but with a price. I recommend the use of god apples restricted only to non-vampire subjects, as to prevent the same thing from happening that was occurring before. I'd also recommend vampires unable to use items such as ender pearls or speed potions when they are bloodlusting, due to the fact that they would be impossible to catch by a normal player, even if he/she was a vampire.
  2. God apples should be brought back in with a 5 minute cool down. You can eat one, then fight for a bit, and when you are running out of its effects, you can use ender pearls and speed potions to try and eat another, or just stay there and combat your enemy. This is, as before, to prevent abuse by others.
  3. Axes need to have a cap of 1500. While many have trained their axes over 1000, some even over 2000, the amount of players below that is very big, and you need to put them as the majority first. I think that 1.5k axes will be ok for many of you, and it will still be able to dish out enough damage so that axes are actually worth something. If we don't add a sort of cap, and just nerf it, eventually the players will train up and reach past that nerf, and this entire decision-making process will start all over again. Let's just put an end to this now and take out the overpowered axes.
~ Imboring56
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Yes yes, and ehhh… Jp Alamut, a few others, and I had a talk about axes and it was agreed it should cap at 2000
 
thor5648 said:
Yes yes, and ehhh… Jp Alamut, a few others, and I had a talk about axes and it was agreed it should cap at 2000
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๖ۣۜAlamut might agree, but it so far appears that many others don't.
Let alone, the staff might not agree as well.
So far stating that a few people agree it should be at 2000 really won't change the argument whatsoever, as the staff are really making the choice, the players are just recommending. For all we know, the staff could remove McMMo entirely without our wanting, but they still can do it because they got control. If they agree to keep it to 2000, why is that? Have them explain their reasoning and rate other posts as to what they feel fit, it certainly is quite more helpful than just saying your friends agree it should be 2000.
 
xReita said:
If this guy did same thing and in the same way with iron armour it would be like 2 times heavier.
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hmmmm... I would like you to meet Heavy infatry man from late medieval era....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Italian_-_Sallet_-_Walters_51580.jpg

As much as you can see he is better protected then soldier wearing "minecraft armor"
missing: full face helmet, vambarces, gauntlets...

And yeah...

A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15-20 kg(33-44 pounds)
 
Gardyn said:
hmmmm... I would like you to meet Heavy infatry man from late medieval era....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Italian_-_Sallet_-_Walters_51580.jpg

As much as you can see he is better protected then soldier wearing "minecraft armor"
missing: full face helmet, vambarces, gauntlets...

And yeah...

A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15-20 kg(33-44 pounds)
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Le ugh.

So activate brain and notice:
1. Diamond is lighter than iron.
2. Guy on vid counted pixels only without caring of thickness of armour.

So, if we made same armour, exactly same armour, with diamond it will be like 2 times lighter. And... why the hell are we talking about it in here ._.
 
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