Archived Some Pvp Suggestions I Have Heard That Should Be Considered.

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thor5648

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Let me start out by saying that massive pvp is not the most fun at the moment, the fights are too short and it doesn't really require much skill at all.

Vampire: The thing that really made vampires over powered back in the day was the +20% damage while in bloodlust, and also the lag made them near impossible to hit. I am suggesting to re add vampires to the game, without the +20%. Why? This adds more variety to fighting, if you are good enough to dodge potions and hits (Hard to do in no lag, I tested) it can be fun to use, but at the same time not over powered. This also adds another aspect instead of just who lands more hits faster, it is about strafing and jumping to where you opponent can't hit you, but also taking care not to get destroyed by wood counter attacks and potions of light.

Make the +50% mcmmo to +20%: Just do /mctop axes. Nuff said. It is allowing people train to extreme levels in no time at all.

God apples:I know this one draws a lot of controversy because of how "over powered" they are in 1.6 and 1.7. The thing is, is that no one really has god apples, everyone got rid of theirs when they were removed. I believe adding a 5 minute cool down in between eating them, and using the plugin to make them regeneration IV instead of regen VI (like they are in 1.6 and 1.7) would make this situation a lot better. Also re adding them would make the economy drastically better, adding a new aspect of gold, which is unobtainable by any other way then mining.

Cannons breaking down walls for 2 minutes when using diamond blocks: This would add new aspects to raiding, and also make it a lot more fun, so people can actually charge into bases and have a fight. Of course it is still possible to hide in a bunker under ground if you don't want to fight.

Archery:If there is a way to make it do more damage, please do it it.. :/ It currently does 1/2 heart with 1,000 archery mcmmo and a power5 flame1 punch 2 bow. It isn't effective for those who's fighting style revolves around it...

If you like something, say below, or if you think something could change or has a problem with it, please post and say.

Well these are my suggestions to make MassiveCraft PvP a bit more fun and requiring skill, hope you guys like them . :)
 
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Ehm. Vampires are already in the game. Ah... Archery does do damage, earlier on when I was with my friend, I was trying to see how much damage my bow could do, it took far more than 1/2 hearts, and I had far less levels then 1000. Perhaps 100.

You are... Right, I guess, with the whole MCMMO axes thing. Though, I'm pretty sure it's a perk for premiums, so if people would want that advantage, all they need to do is get enough ingame silver, or just use real money to buy premium.
 
Yeah, I so totally agree on Archery! Bows damage should be more lore complient!

Teddie000 We are talking here about PvP, not about shooting people without armour
 
Teddie000 I am talking specifically about bloodlust for vampires, it was removed. And also I was fighting xreita yesterday and in god armor she was doing 1/2 heart a hit with bow. It should be doing around 3-4 hearts, it is just nerved/ messed up at the moment.
 
A well made bow and arrow of medieval ages could go through a man in full armor. That's all I have to say.
 
xReita said:
Yeah, I so totally agree on Archery! Bows damage should be more lore complient!

Teddie000 We are talking here about PvP, not about shooting people without armour
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Ah, I was just providing an example as to how Archery isn't that bad... I'm talking about PvP too ;w;

thor5648 said:
Teddie000 I am talking specifically about bloodlust for vampires, it was removed. And also I was fighting xreita yesterday and in god armor she was doing 1/2 heart a hit with bow. It should be doing around 3-4 hearts, it is just nerved/ messed up at the moment.
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Then just get a god-bow? I don't know. But I find Archery very useful, and in my opinion I don't think it's messed up...
 
Teddie000 said:
Ah, I was just providing an example as to how Archery isn't that bad... I'm talking about PvP too ;w;



Then just get a god-bow? I don't know. But I find Archery very useful, and in my opinion I don't think it's messed up...
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This was with a god bow and 1,000 archery… it does half a heart a hit to god armor.
 
thor5648 said:
This was with a god bow and 1,000 archery… it does half a heart a hit to god armor.
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Well then, I don't know what to do. I'm just trying to post my opinion here. If you think archery should get more damage, just train like mad until mods accept it.

Sorry if I bothered any of you.
 
I don't remember when Blood Lust was around, but I hear it was really over-powered. Same with god-apples. So I suggest that the power of the two should be toned down a smidgen.
 
๖ۣۜPersonally, I don't like any of the ideas except for the cannons and a slight bit lower McMMo gain. The Golden Apple was removed in the first place for a brilliant reason, if you saw Grailen's video on it. Within the time it was used, and still had an effect, it was far too powerful. You did however state that it would have a 5 minute cooldown, which personally wouldn't bother me too much, I'm just on the fence about the idea of it coming back, I'd suppose...

I remember hearing some conversation about bringing back a form of Bloodlust, and I personally think the only perks that should stay with it be the jump boost and a Swiftness I. Removing the damage isn't really enough, because extreme speed isn't helping whatsoever. The trouble for me combating one using Bloodlust wasn't that they kept hitting me, but that I couldn't hit them. Slowing them down a bit helps balance it. Plus, remember how Vampyres are being absolutely everywhere at spawn as RP noobs? I don't want Combat noobs either, as that currently is the only place I can go to without having people with no actual skill whatsoever become too hard to hit. I'd rather try to fight someone whom can match skill, because then it actually makes it entertaining. Winning quickly is a high that goes too fast, and facing people whom are too powerful certainly don't entertain you at all because they keep beating you.

The Cannons, I like, it would certainly add a bit of lag to the worlds, however it would make the aspect of raiding a lot better, and it would make diamonds a lot more expensive because of demand and because the millions in the system are finally being removed. It will make raids fun, and benefit economy in a way as well.

Archery is another idea I'm on the fence on, I certainly do want it to have a gain of strength, but at the same time, there is a ~Daze~ skill with it. We don't want it to become too over-powered if you raise it, but it certainly should get a boost of sorts.

These are a few of my responses to it, hoping my feedback helped in some way.
 
William Chron said:
๖ۣۜPersonally, I don't like any of the ideas except for the cannons and a slight bit lower McMMo gain. The Golden Apple was removed in the first place for a brilliant reason, if you saw Grailen's video on it. Within the time it was used, and still had an effect, it was far too powerful. You did however state that it would have a 5 minute cooldown, which personally wouldn't bother me too much, I'm just on the fence about the idea of it coming back, I'd suppose...

I remember hearing some conversation about bringing back a form of Bloodlust, and I personally think the only perks that should stay with it be the jump boost and a Swiftness I. Removing the damage isn't really enough, because extreme speed isn't helping whatsoever. The trouble for me combating one using Bloodlust wasn't that they kept hitting me, but that I couldn't hit them. Slowing them down a bit helps balance it. Plus, remember how Vampyres are being absolutely everywhere at spawn as RP noobs? I don't want Combat noobs either, as that currently is the only place I can go to without having people with no actual skill whatsoever become too hard to hit. I'd rather try to fight someone whom can match skill, because then it actually makes it entertaining. Winning quickly is a high that goes too fast, and facing people whom are too powerful certainly don't entertain you at all because they keep beating you.

The Cannons, I like, it would certainly add a bit of lag to the worlds, however it would make the aspect of raiding a lot better, and it would make diamonds a lot more expensive because of demand and because the millions in the system are finally being removed. It will make raids fun, and benefit economy in a way as well.

Archery is another idea I'm on the fence on, I certainly do want it to have a gain of strength, but at the same time, there is a ~Daze~ skill with it. We don't want it to become too over-powered if you raise it, but it certainly should get a boost of sorts.

These are a few of my responses to it, hoping my feedback helped in some way.
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If you would take the time to tea my post, grailens video showed the 1.6 apples, not the regen 4s.. He wanted to nerf them because the 1.6 ones were over powered and there was not a plugin (that is updating to 1.7) that makes them what they used to be. Vampires have speed 2 while bloodlusting and a four block jump. If you can't hit speed 2 that is your problem, there are pots that make people that fast. And when they jump it is rather easy to just throw a light potion that pretty much instantly kills them. Trust me I have tested and you have to really know what you at doing to be able to even come near to killing a non vamp. As for archery 3-4 hearts is what it is supposed to do, it, I believe, was mistakenly nerfed.
 
Vampires were fairly easy to kill if you had a decent computer. (and wood, ofc.)

The reasons why bloodlust was removed was because video coming in about hacking was nigh impossible to rule on due to the lag made by all the bloodlusting vampires.
 
Teddie000 said:
I don't remember when Blood Lust was around, but I hear it was really over-powered. Same with god-apples. So I suggest that the power of the two should be toned down a smidgen.
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Bloodlust was op because they were impossible to hit when it was 5 tps, and god apples were removed because in 1.6 they were over powered. The plugin that I used to test is updating to 1.7.2, and makes them the old god apples which you can easily be killed with even if you are on one. On top of the old god apples being brought back, thee would be a five minute cool down. They at simply there I make fights last a bit longer.
 
I honestly think PvP is fine the way it is. I don't think we need god apples, though I do admit that archery needs a tad more power, but it shouldn't become over-powered.
 
thor5648

1) I think this would be fine, however, I would prefer that other races were buffed in a way that all PvPers don't just all start swapping blood to all become vampires. I think there should be balance and variety -- a strength to being a non-vampire as well. But yes, the idea of vampires of fighting them would certainly spice up MassiveCraft PvP.

2) I'd rather the McMMO bonus to be gone with all together, but yours is a step in the right direction. MonMarty commented that they can only configure the McMMO bonus in settings of 50%, 100%, and 200%. So something like 10% or 20% would require them to tweak McMMO's coding. Bummer. ;<

3) I am not educated on the mechanics of God Apples pre- and post- nerf/ban, so I will withhold comment.

4)
thor5648 said:
Cannons breaking down walls for 2 minutes when using diamond blocks: This would add new aspects to raiding, and also make it a lot more fun, so people can actually charge into bases and have a fight. Of course it is still possible to hide in a bunker under ground if you don't want to fight.
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I have emphasized this part for anyone who may have skimmed past this upon reading. For those who will argue that, "This will be abused for griefing!" please understand, the big hole in the side of your cobblestone box is temporary (ie. for 2 minutes). I think this is quite brilliant, however, I am still on the fence with this one.

5) I agree, I feel it should do at the very least 2.5 hearts.
 
thor5648 said:
Let me start out by saying that massive pvp is not the most fun at the moment, the fights are too short and it doesn't really require much skill at all.

Vampire: The thing that really made vampires over powered back in the day was the +20% damage while in bloodlust, and also the lag made them near impossible to hit. I am suggesting to re add vampires to the game, without the +20%. Why? This adds more variety to fighting, if you are good enough to dodge potions and hits (Hard to do in no lag, I tested) it can be fun to use, but at the same time not over powered. This also adds another aspect instead of just who lands more hits faster, it is about strafing and jumping to where you opponent can't hit you, but also taking care not to get destroyed by wood counter attacks and potions of light.

Make the +50% mcmmo to +20%: Just do /mctop axes. Nuff said. It is allowing people train to extreme levels in no time at all.

God apples:I know this one draws a lot of controversy because of how "over powered" they are in 1.6 and 1.7. The thing is, is that no one really has god apples, everyone got rid of theirs when they were removed. I believe adding a 5 minute cool down in between eating them, and using the plugin to make them regeneration IV instead of regen VI (like they are in 1.6 and 1.7) would make this situation a lot better. Also re adding them would make the economy drastically better, adding a new aspect of gold, which is unobtainable by any other way then mining.

Cannons breaking down walls for 2 minutes when using diamond blocks: This would add new aspects to raiding, and also make it a lot more fun, so people can actually charge into bases and have a fight. Of course it is still possible to hide in a bunker under ground if you don't want to fight.

Archery:If there is a way to make it do more damage, please do it it.. :/ It currently does 1/2 heart with 1,000 archery mcmmo and a power5 flame1 punch 2 bow. It isn't effective for those who's fighting style revolves around it...

If you like something, say below, or if you think something could change or has a problem with it, please post and say.

Well these are my suggestions to make MassiveCraft PvP a bit more fun and requiring skill, hope you guys like them . :)
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I agree with most things here except making xp bonus 20%. If that was done it would just be unfair on everyone who didn't no life train. Because you know its not really normal to train 12 hours a day. Instead they should just put a cap on armor damage 1000-1500 would be good.
 
Snake said:
I agree with most things here except making xp bonus 20%. If that was done it would just be unfair on everyone who didn't no life train. Because you know its not really normal to train 12 hours a day. Instead they should just put a cap on armor damage 1000-1500 would be good.
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A cap would be very annoying, armor damage really isn't a problem at the moment as there are literally 3000+ sets of armor on the server. If it did get to the point where it became an issue, which it won't anytime soon, mcmmo debs would just 1/2 it again, if it became a problem with multiple servers. The point of me showing mc top axes was to show how fat it has shifted, you could also do /mc top and see the shift there, for people who just trained until they were on it in 1/2 the time.
 
thor5648 said:
A cap would be very annoying, armor damage really isn't a problem at the moment as there are literally 3000+ sets of armor on the server. If it did get to the point where it became an issue, which it won't anytime soon, mcmmo debs would just 1/2 it again, if it became a problem with multiple servers. The point of me showing mc top axes was to show how fat it has shifted, you could also do /mc top and see the shift there, for people who just trained until they were on it in 1/2 the time.
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Armor damage IS a problem, there may be 3000 sets of armor but they are all spread out. Average person only has 1-3. Also a cap would be the most logical way of approaching the situation as it would not be unfair on anyone. You are only saying that because you have 3.4k or whatever axes. No one should to do 70 armor damage per hit to armor that has unbreaking 3 on it.
 
Snake said:
Armor damage IS a problem, there may be 3000 sets of armor but they are all spread out. Average person only has 1-3. Also a cap would be the most logical way of approaching the situation as it would not be unfair on anyone. You are only saying that because you have 3.4k or whatever axes. No one should to do 70 armor damage per hit to armor that has unbreaking 3 on it.
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I do 10 ticks per hit on armor hud and i do 69 bonus damage to armor, not 70 :P
 
I like it, God Apples with a cooldown like enderpearles but longer would be nice to have back considering some people's *Cough* my, Large stockpiles of gold. Overall I like this thread except for the bring down on the MCMMO premium bonus, Stellar skills can be matched with stellar skills.
 
I like most of the above ideas, but since it is on the same topic I am gonna toss in a few of mine aswell:

The first is an idea that is not my own, but I really do like it. It is that rather than a constant 50% mcmmo buff, there would be events that last for a few days where there would be double XP or something like that. Obviously, this would have to be premium only for it to not completely obliterate the current feature. I think something like this would make these XP boosts less overpowered, yet still rewarding for those who log on while the event is taking place. The only part of this suggestion that I have not really thought out is that if these events would be on a specific calendar scheduled or perhaps spontaneous/ near holidays or other special events.

The next idea is regarding axes. Fighting in recent battles, I have noticed my full set of god armour being completely demolished in under 2 minutes of fighting. My suggestion, however, rather than simply nerfing axes again, would be to place a cap at 2k axes (And perhaps the equivalant of 1.5k axe damage). Although this cap could obviously be debatable, I do feel that fights need to last longer, and axes armour damage is the main reason they don't. That being said, however, I think axes should still do enough damage to make the grind of levels worth it, but at the same time, make it take more than just a few hits to shred armour.
 
I like a lot of the suggestions mentioned here, but I disagree with re-implementing God-Apples unless the cool down thor mentioned is added, because certain pvpers including myself at some points would use god apples as a base item to replace potions, because you could just spam them if you had enough. And also I believe that the archery power needs to be scaled because as thor pointed out it is next to useless against those that know how to survive good amounts of time.

Just my input

-Noodles
 
The way I remember it, they were debating removing god apples even before the OP update they got, so if that is correct, I doubt the downgrade will persuade them.
 
thor5648 said:
If you want to flame please go to another thread, if you want to make a thread about nerfing axes, then go do that.
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I think what he means is that if a reasonable level cap existed players would have a chance to become equal to some of the PVP gods and the overall quality of PVP would increase as people would have to think and not just shred armor while fighting. It would really show who is good at PVP and who just has high stats.
 
Snake,
Please refrain from the personal flaming or warnings will be given. If you have nothing constructive or friendly to say, then don't say it, ok? This also goes for DisturbedReaper and other people who make posts like that.

~ Imboring56, Your Friendly Neighborhood Forum Mod
 
thor5648 said:
A cap would be very annoying, armor damage really isn't a problem at the moment as there are literally 3000+ sets of armor on the server. If it did get to the point where it became an issue, which it won't anytime soon, mcmmo debs would just 1/2 it again, if it became a problem with multiple servers. The point of me showing mc top axes was to show how fat it has shifted, you could also do /mc top and see the shift there, for people who just trained until they were on it in 1/2 the time.
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Thor, you are essentially the shining example and reason, among a couple other individuals, why the +50% McMMO bonus for premiums is so totally out of whack. In just a matter of a few days, you surpassed McMuffin55's 2700 axes skill to your now current skill of 3400 axes skill. I personally don't care about the individual scores or the petty McMMO penis measuring contests a lot of the "big PvPers" have, but hear me out:

It must have took at least a few months for McMuffin55 to achieve that 2700 axes skill. Moreover, the way McMMO leveling works, there are significant diminishing returns on experience gained the higher you go in level. For you to be able to edge him out a whopping 700 skill points at the 3k mark in a matter of a few days shows how completely broken this feature is. The problem with this situation is that the damage is more or less irreversible, unless the massive staff are able put McMMO in a time machine before the bonus was taken into place. There needs to be -some- solution to this.

So for you to make the claim that Snake 's proposition of nerfing axes is off-topic is a bit ridiculous, and a little paranoid sounding. The whole McMMO bonus needs to go, but the damage that has been done already... there needs to be something done about that too, I think. Yeah, you can keep your little number, but nerfing axes is long overdue, and is a good start.
 
Unluvable said:
Thor, you are essentially the shining example and reason, among a couple other individuals, why the +50% McMMO bonus for premiums is so totally out of whack. In just a matter of a few days, you surpassed McMuffin55's 2700 axes skill to your now current skill of 3400 axes skill. I personally don't care about the individual scores or the petty McMMO penis measuring contests a lot of the "big PvPers" have, but hear me out:

It must have took at least a few months for McMuffin55 to achieve that 2700 axes skill. Moreover, the way McMMO leveling works, there are significant diminishing returns on experience gained the higher you go in level. For you to be able to edge him out a whopping 700 skill points at the 3k mark in a matter of a few days shows how completely broken this feature is. The problem with this situation is that the damage is more or less irreversible, unless the massive staff are able put McMMO in a time machine before the bonus was taken into place. There needs to be -some- solution to this.

So for you to make the claim that Snake 's proposition of nerfing axes is off-topic is a bit ridiculous, and a little paranoid sounding. The whole McMMO bonus needs to go, but the damage that has been done already... there needs to be something done about that too, I think. Yeah, you can keep your little number, but nerfing axes is long overdue, and is a good start.
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It was already nerfed once, I would be 100% okay with then taking off 25% of the current armor damage if they must.
 
thor5648
Im not too sure about the cannon thing, because so many building can be broken into, and entire factions would have to be renovated if they don't want their faction infiltrated, or their animals killed. I like the idea though.
 
Unluvable Cant agree any more with you. To be honest I enjoy the more xp addition. When Im bired I go and farm my sugar canes for a quick power level increase. But the damage has already been done. The only way to fix this in a manner that is completely fair to everyone would be wiping out all levels that were acquired after the update but that would make a lot of people complain. I think putting a cap of 1000-1500 would be the best alternative. The point of pvp is to kill the opponent and loot their items, not to break their armor 4 seconds after the fight their starts to make them run away.

thor5648 Im saying this with my politest non-flame tone. I do not think you understand our point.. sir. This is not about what YOU would like. This is about making pvp better and fair for everyone.
 
Oh and about the cannon thing, I also disagree with that. People need to understand that MassiveCraft isnt a hardcore raid server. It never will be. Honestly, if I were Cay I would never make a way of people breaking into places. The staff have enough trouble with raiders raiding people who dont want to be raided and cant defend themselves. This would just make the matters worse.
 
The main thing for me here is to bring down the MCMMO axes buff. It's just ridiculous. It makes premiums nearly unbeatable to non-premiums. I say it should reduced to 10%. Giving non-premiums diamond armor isn't enough.
 
Personal opinions here, not representing the teams view as a whole or anything...

I would love, love, LOVE to see archery get more damage. At the moment, it's still damn useful to be able to daze people. Makes going in for the kill with your preferred melee weapon easier, with your enemy essentially drunk. I think the main issue with Massive pvp at the moment, as with all pvp in minecraft, is variety. Swords, Axes, or bows. Unarmed can be considered, but is seen as a tad cheap. Even archery, something I revolve all my combat around, can't stand up to a suicidal axeman who can shrug off my arrows with ease. It's difficult to code, but god would I love to see more weapons in minecraft, with a reworked and corresponding massive version of mcmmo, to be updated and tweaked as we see fit.

The overlying issue is tech. We have Cayorion and no-one else, essentially, who can work on Massive's tech achievements. At the moment we're delving deeper into the potential with Massive Quest. On a personal level, I feel pvp needs to be fixed with the creation of a Massive version of mcmmo, with more weapons, improved combat variety, and the implementation of that "Traits" plug in that's been whispered about. That's my opinion, that's what I think should come first. But at the moment, it seems MassiveQuest with world development on the side is what we're mainly pouring our efforts into.

This sucks for our more fight loving playerbase, myself included. We can certainly adress some of the easy issues (Vampire re-introduction and archery boosting is possible, God Apples and Canons destroying blocks is simply not going to happen) but the underlying issue is going to either take a lot of time, or a shift in the Team's efforts. Assuming it's the first option, we'll likely get the Massive Quest plugin rolling, then begin to iron out pvp mechanics later.

But the difficulty is getting the people who have the power to facilitate change to understand that what YOU see as the most important issue, in this case shitty pvp, is the issue we must focus on fixing and improving. Even more difficult to present it in a way that said people with power will actually listen to.
 
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