Archived Reverse The Tax Change

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I think its time to call it. This has been a failed experiment.

Not only are some larger factions not able to keep all of their builds, I have actually heard a bunch of people cancel their premium subscription because this has been a... final straw if you will. Not to mention the people who have just quit outright.

Please give your feedback below.


Tagging.. @Game @MonMarty
 
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
If you are to the extreme laze, and you only roleplay or such, just leave your current faction, after raising 500r, and make a new faction. If you only roleplay, just put your several lore items in a hopper and don't claim any land... boom like no tax. If you have lots of stuff, claim a one-chunk piece of land and put your stuff in it, 1r a day.
 
just wondering(this is a little off topic) how the heck do you make that much money @MonMarty ?
thats insane
 
To Cpe_Manturay's point, you can store a lot of stuff in 1 chunk... provided 1 block all around for walls all the way around, 1 chunk gives you a 14x14 area to hold chests. A chest is 1x2 and you'd need at least a 1x1 path to walk in between two sets to 1x2 chests. so imagine this storage space:

X=wall /=chest -=walking area
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X--------------X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This could be layered from the bottom of the world with floors every 5 layers all the way up to max build height of 256, -1 for a top cieling. This leaves 42 full floors of 5 layers of this chest arangement for a total of 210 layers of 143 single chests with 27 slots. That means that for 2 regals a day you could stop up to 810810 inventory slots of stuff.... Also tax is done by per 10 chunks, so really you could have 4 chunks of this without ever going about 2r a day....So actually you can get:

X=wall /=chest -=walking area
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X--------------------------------------------------------------X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Same math, 4 chunks is
753 single chests per layer * 210 layers * 27 inventory slots = 4,269,510 inventory slots..... for 2 regals a day.... one visit to john the pious is good for nearly 2 months of tax
not counting your inventory, ender chest and backpack..
 
To Cpe_Manturay's point, you can store a lot of stuff in 1 chunk... provided 1 block all around for walls all the way around, 1 chunk gives you a 14x14 area to hold chests. A chest is 1x2 and you'd need at least a 1x1 path to walk in between two sets to 1x2 chests. so imagine this storage space:

X=wall /=chest -=walking area
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X//-////-////-/X
X--------------X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

This could be layered from the bottom of the world with floors every 5 layers all the way up to max build height of 256, -1 for a top cieling. This leaves 42 full floors of 5 layers of this chest arangement for a total of 210 layers of 143 single chests with 27 slots. That means that for 2 regals a day you could stop up to 810810 inventory slots of stuff.... Also tax is done by per 10 chunks, so really you could have 4 chunks of this without ever going about 2r a day....So actually you can get:

X=wall /=chest -=walking area
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X//-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-////-///-X
X--------------------------------------------------------------X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Same math, 4 chunks is
753 single chests per layer * 210 layers * 27 inventory slots = 4,269,510 inventory slots..... for 2 regals a day.... one visit to john the pious is good for nearly 2 months of tax
not counting your inventory, ender chest and backpack..
yeah and you can turn on claimnear for a faction and split your faction into several lands with different owners that have portals across to each other
 
Really, when it comes down to it, this issue just needs to be broken down into the base case.

Suppose a person, lets just say Catbug, was the proud owner of faction X

Catbug is the only person in faction X, and he is the only person who has ever been in faction X

Catbug also has claimed all of the land that he is physically able to claim. (30 Chunks or equivalently 7680 blocks)

Now Catbug is having to deal with these heightened taxes! Oh no! Lets see how much he pays.

30 Chunks, 1r/5chunks/day = 6r/24 hours

Now, Catbug believes this amount of taxation to be absurd! By god, he has to teleport to regalia for 25 seconds he can receive 100r/20 hours from John the Pious.

And for that matter, it would take him a solid 10 minutes outside (or in dark room if you'd prefer less immersive and more grinding) in order to make... 6 regals.

Or maybe he should go mining. A diamond block normally sells for about 7r as of today, and is bought by default at 6r at most any chest (just walked around in the market) but 7 is about average for buying. If Catbug decided to mine for a few minutes, then he could probably find 9 diamonds and sell them to any chest in the market with no hassle, paying his tax.

Now lets be honest, we all know that Catbug is the laziest creature in all of Aloria, so he definitely wants to do the minimum amount of work in order to keep his faction. That means that he will need to go to John the Pious once every about 16 days
in order to hold onto his faction.

Ok so, I've just presented the base case for any faction. So, with that in mind, a lazy faction owner, alone, who only does the minimum, will still be able to maintain a claim that is the size of 16 people, by simply grabbing welfare every morning (actually a 17% more than that since John gives money every 20 hours, but whatever the math gets harder if I do that)

Ok keep all of that in mind.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, is there really anyone, anyone who could tell me, with no emotion, and no bias, that this is unreasonable?

In my mind, if you are a faction leader, and you own a faction that has 16x as many claims as you have players, that are willing to give up all of their welfare every day, then you are a failure and your faction deserves to either crash and burn or down size. Think about it. Suppose Tyberia had exactly the claims of 256 members at full power, this isn't current, but it will keep the numbers easy. That is 7680 Chunks or 1.97 million square blocks. It would only take 16 members to sustain that faction if all they did was get on 1 time every day for 30 seconds and donate their welfare to the faction. Every claim could be kept simply by doing the very very minimum amount of work once a day.

So, clearly by those numbers, this amount of taxation is definitely not unsustainable, it doesn't even sound painful unless your faction is grossly oversized, really it only gets painful for people who "care" if they have more than 16:1 claims to dedicated/caring players in which case then those players would need to do more than just give up their welfare every day.

So, I think by what I've said so far, I have objectively, indisputably proven that these taxes are not too much to endure for old factions that want to survive. It also does allow for new factions to take up the new open spaces that are left behind.

With that in mind. To all of you old high kings, emperors, and the like... I dare to say that if your faction members join your faction, then leave it, or don't like the experience you gave them enough to become a dedicated player and decide to never come back to MassiveCraft again, then... you as a leader, and your officers, those in charge of recruiting and teaching new members, have failed. That's right. If you can't treat your members of your factions like they are the lifeblood of your society, then you have failed, and you've caused the server to lose someone forever.

The fact is, if every member does their part, then every faction will be easily sustainable. If you have players that only get on once every 2 weeks, then they can sustain their part of the faction with 25 seconds of effort... not the healthiest, but good enough to survive. It's up to you as a leader to be constantly recruiting, giving jobs to your faction members, and interacting with them while you have the chance and they are getting a feel for Massivecraft so that they will come back the next day, or whenever it is convenient and keep playing for years. That way, by the time they decide to be done with Minecraft for good, they will have done the same thing with their own faction down the line, forever building up the community in size and continuing on this servers history of being the best damn server in existence.

Full Disclaimer: If you don't bother to read my entire post, then I have no respect for you if you decide its worth your time to bash it down. Read the whole thing, and supply something constructive, or keep to yourself.

Love, Catbug
Catbug for Staff 2016

I'm Pokyug and I endorse this message
 
Out of curiously @Zacatero , has your opinion on the new taxes changed after 80+ comments on this thread and the topic being discussed at length?
 
I figured I'd give my two cents on this whole thing, since I'm infamous for owning the most unhealthy faction in existence. Hyrune's daily tax is about 160r per day, and right now the tax system we have in place only covers ~40r of it. Literally all I have to do to keep it alive is go to John the Pious, pay the 100r I get to the faction, and then darkroom for a few minutes or auction something and I get the extra 20r I need. The taxes being doubled isn't the end of the world, and to counteract it you don't have to put much effort into doing so. The only real problem I have at this point is not being able to claim any more land because of the power we need, but that's completely unrelated to taxes.
 
I figured I'd give my two cents on this whole thing, since I'm infamous for owning the most unhealthy faction in existence. Hyrune's daily tax is about 160r per day, and right now the tax system we have in place only covers ~40r of it. Literally all I have to do to keep it alive is go to John the Pious, pay the 100r I get to the faction, and then darkroom for a few minutes or auction something and I get the extra 20r I need. The taxes being doubled isn't the end of the world, and to counteract it you don't have to put much effort into doing so. The only real problem I have at this point is not being able to claim any more land because of the power we need, but that's completely unrelated to taxes.
Does anybody in your fac have any art skills? One good drawing could pay tax for like 3 months...
 
Wow, do you know how many inactive factions are disbanding due to the tax?

It's GREAT! new/relocating favs can finally have room to claim! :D

Plz don't enemy me over this pplz
 
Wow, do you know how many inactive factions are disbanding due to the tax?

It's GREAT! new/relocating favs can finally have room to claim! :D

Plz don't enemy me over this pplz
meh, I already have 3 bases though, I can move one to a different base...