Archived Removal Of Massivemobs

[jquaile]

Massivemobs
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Recently combat traits were removed from Massive for reasons including, that they made it considerably harder for new players to get into PvP on the server. Which I found strange seeing as the server seems completely unwilling to do anything about MassiveMobs, which in my opinion and many others, is far more of an obstacle to PvP on Massive. ​

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Firstly in regards to new players joining the server and getting involved in PvP. MassiveMobs are far, far more difficult to kill than vanilla mobs and killing mobs is vital to becoming part of the PvP community. To become an effective PvPer you need to kill mobs for materials such as gunpowder as well as vanilla and mcmmo exp. ​

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Without these things you cannot realistically enter the PvP community, however for some reason MassiveMobs have been made more and more difficult to kill despite the supposed aim of encouraging more PvP. The removal of combat traits has only further exacerbated this problem (although I have no problem with their removal this is entirely about MassiveMobs). The drops from MassiveMobs are also not helpful for aspiring members of the PvP community, random lored drops that don't stack and special items are all very nice but simply are not practical for those collecting resources for potions etc. ​

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Secondly the spawn rate for MassiveMobs is quite frankly insane, often it is nigh on impossible to PvP in the wilderness because you will be swarmed by MassiveMobs that do more damage than players. They have the capability of seriously interfering with raids which is illogical. My understanding was that Massivecraft's survival worlds were primarily about factions and that factions was essentially a PvP plugin, not PvE. Why then does MassiveMobs continue to exist in it's current state where it discourages PvP from taking place?​

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Thirdly the damage that some mobs deal and how long it can take to kill them compared with the reward further adds to the situation. A green mob currently takes a considerable number of hits to kill and can easily kill a player if they are not careful, however the potential reward is incredibly limited, a regal and an essentially useless MassiveMobs drop. ​

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Cutting to the chase, PvE on massive has been incredibly overdeveloped for a server that is supposed to be factions. People want to spend their time in factions fighting other players, not the mobs. They make it far more difficult for new players to get into PvP, the spawn rate is way to high, they drop many useless items and they are excessively hard to kill, particularly with the removal of combat traits.​

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I would suggest at the very least temporarily disabling MassiveMobs so that it can be entirely reworked so as to deal with these issues, or removing it permanently. There were never any major issues with vanilla mob spawning as far as I am aware and I do not recall anyone ever asking for a plug-in like MassiveMobs. Yes, it was a nice concept but in its current format it is a considerable hindrance to PvP on Massive.
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@Game

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[Zacatero]

Don't want to get rid if them. A decent cooldown would be nice... meh. Back to building.

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Cooldown for potions? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Keep in mind how much space you can actually keep in your inventory for potions. Now how many of those spaces are being taken up by ender pearls, weapons, and food. Keep in mind that your backpack is inaccessible while PVP active, so you really cant carry that many potions for pvp. Cooldown is unnecessary

 

[65jes89]

Don't want to get rid if them. A decent cooldown would be nice... meh. Back to building.

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This is 100% irrelevant. Potions are not going anywhere. Anything like this would have bigger opposition to it by the pvp community than 1.9 did. It's not happening. Stop bringing it up.

 

[CFLPlayer]

Just gonna through my opinion in because I handle a lot of recruits in my faction and people aspiring to pvp go through me to get access to darkrooms and stuff. So I hope you don't mind my opinion @jquaile ^-^
In my experience, people are less and less enjoying the grind that comes with joining teh pvp comunity. I first noticed this change when massivemobs became prominent on every world, it's difficulty for new players is surprising and some even struggle with a full beacon set up and decent (semi-noob) armour, so I dread to think what new factions trying to begin is like.
I personally like the unique mobs that the plufin brings but do see why it's such an issue. All I can say is that, I think it either needs a severe reworking or entire removal. At this point I'm leaning towards removal because I would like to see the pvp community get their deserved boost of fresh blood that has been hindered by the lack of successful aspiring pvpers. PvP is fun, but only when it's achievable, which is a point all those players struggling to kill those Orc Chiefs no longer have.

 

[Addrion]

I can tell there is a lot of concern coming from a lot of different people on how MassiveMobs impacts PvP and PvE on our server. While I do appreciate hearing from players to get their viewpoint, it is important to keep things productive. Giving arguments without facts is usually not helpful. But it is good to hear what you feel. It is a fact that MassiveMobs does not cause the lag that many people feel it does. This is probably a holdover from when they were first reimplemented. At that time their pathfinding range was too great and this caused them to not register hits well. That was fixed and it is important to note that it was not an issue that effected the server much outside of the plugin.

We recently removed many of the traits that used to be available, many of them being favorites to use in PvP in an effort to lower the learning curve for PvPers and to help new players when they join. This also allows us to refine the PvP that is custom to our server. This will mean better hit detection, better balanced McMMO, better balanced damage, and better balanced armor. Along with this restructuring MassiveMobs will also be undergoing changes. Mobs will most likely be made weaker, to match the change to PvP damage output and armor protection as well as the loss of the before mentioned traits. This thread has some suggestions that are possible, and may be done. Like the removal of some custom drops. Or a change to the frequency of rarer spawns. However there is next to no chance of the plugin being removed. If it caused a lot of lag or crashes or console errors then this might be an option. But it currently works exactly as intended.

TL;DR
MassiveMobs is being tweaked to match PvP changes. Mobs will get easier.

 

[Tokuu]

Standard of behavior should not disallow someone from having an opinion. That way you enter a slippery slope of arbitrarily tossing an entire population aside conveniently because they disagree with your point of view. In order for discussions to remain constructive, everyone needs to have a chance to have a say in the matter and their words should be evaluated with equal weight.

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1400 people do not play this server every day. And if (by some small chance) they do, the number that sits in the factions world is growing ever smaller. Then the number of those players who actually know how to use the forums is even smaller, and of those, fewer still have the confidence to voice an opinion. Surely the sheer number of times this issue has arisen should be cause for some concern amongst the server? This was never a cry for attention, but to point out that massivemobs are in fact detrimental to a large part of the factions player base. Something which seems to have been overlooked in your posts, seeing as you want everyone (even those who never leave the comfort of Regalia) to have a say in this. PvPers never need not want to have a say in anything to do with RP, so why should people who never interact with the mobs have a say in if they stay or not? Logically, they should not.

 

[Zacatero]

While i do support the idea that everybody should be allowed to present their opinions on a topic... @Tokugawryuu has a good point.

 

[Thortuna]

1400 people do not play this server every day. And if (by some small chance) they do

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Fact: September 10th there was 1552 unique players who logged in to MassiveCraft.

As shown here under Players Unique Daily:
https://www.massivecraft.com/stats-day

 

[Zacatero]

Fact: September 10th there was 1552 unique players who logged in to MassiveCraft.

As shown here under Players Unique Daily:
https://www.massivecraft.com/stats-day

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oh wow it says today 1557 unique players. well hot dayum

 

[Savantly]

oh wow it says today 1557 unique players. well hot dayum

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Lol, look at the daily votes

 

[Tokuu]

Fact: September 10th there was 1552 unique players who logged in to MassiveCraft.

As shown here under Players Unique Daily:
https://www.massivecraft.com/stats-day

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They logged in. How many logged in just to preserve a faction and how many were alternate accounts of other players? How many stayed for more than five minutes and actually took the time to play, not just simply join the server? There's a large difference between simply logging in and actually playing on the server, which is what I'm getting at. Take a look at the number of people in all the survival worlds compared with the number of people in Regalia at peak times, and there are still far more people not interacting with said mobs as you're saying are playing the server.

Also, only commenting on one aspect of a post just to try and prove it wrong doesn't help the whole discussion here. Valid points are being brought up and seemingly ignored.

 

[Zacatero]

Is there a way to limit that list to see how many unique IP addresses logged in?

 

[Thortuna]

They logged in. How many logged in just to preserve a faction and how many were alternate accounts of other players? How many stayed for more than five minutes and actually took the time to play, not just simply join the server? There's a large difference between simply logging in and actually playing on the server, which is what I'm getting at. Take a look at the number of people in all the survival worlds compared with the number of people in Regalia at peak times, and there are still far more people not interacting with said mobs as you're saying are playing the server.

Also, only commenting on one aspect of a post just to try and prove it wrong doesn't help the whole discussion here. Valid points are being brought up and seemingly ignored.

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I am not replying because MonMarty has already done so and established issues and ways to fix them. We had a long discussion in todays meeting where we agreed to:
1. Remove all non default drops except the rare proper lore item that can drop at 1-3%. We choose to keep the rare lore item as it is not very often it drops and wouldnt cause to much hassle as it only takes up 1 spot in an inventory. The other "half lore" items will be removed.
2. Lower the mobs health to make mobs easier to grind and kill.
3. Lower mobs damage so they dont kill you so easy.
4. Look into changing spawn rates so rare mobs will be rarer and more nomal mobs will be more frequent.

Just because you dont interact with the 1500 people and only your group doesnt mean that mobs dont affect others such as builders, survivalists etc. These people are entitled to an opinion and not just you. Screaming the loudest isn't always the best approach to a situation. We dont want to remove plugins and work very hard to keep our plugins managable and configurable ingame on the fly. MassiveMobs are capable of this, they also cause immersion with events and bosses you would not see if we did not have them. These things make us unique. Instead of jumping to "lets remove it" as your first proposition you should think of ways we could improve the MassiveMobs experience such as "lowering their health so they get easier to kill". This is a good suggestion and people in this thread have made good arguments in favor of it. Saying MassiveMobs are hindering players from joining or getting into pvp is easily fixed by lowering damage and health of mobs making people able to kill them in non god armor with non god weapons. Which is what we have decided to do at this time.

 

[Addrion]

Valid points are being brought up and seemingly ignored.

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Mobs will most likely be made weaker, to match the change to PvP damage output and armor protection as well as the loss of the before mentioned traits. This thread has some suggestions that are possible, and may be done. Like the removal of some custom drops. Or a change to the frequency of rarer spawns.

Click to shrink...

 

[Chappers]

Out of all the 1500 unique players how many actually stay because this server barely makes 400 or even fills up to 1000 players

 

[Sevak]

I am not replying because MonMarty has already done so and established issues and ways to fix them. We had a long discussion in todays meeting where we agreed to:
1. Remove all non default drops except the rare proper lore item that can drop at 1-3%. We choose to keep the rare lore item as it is not very often it drops and wouldnt cause to much hassle as it only takes up 1 spot in an inventory. The other "half lore" items will be removed.
2. Lower the mobs health to make mobs easier to grind and kill.
3. Lower mobs damage so they dont kill you so easy.
4. Look into changing spawn rates so rare mobs will be rarer and more nomal mobs will be more frequent.

Just because you dont interact with the 1500 people and only your group doesnt mean that mobs dont affect others such as builders, survivalists etc. These people are entitled to an opinion and not just you. Screaming the loudest isn't always the best approach to a situation. We dont want to remove plugins and work very hard to keep our plugins managable and configurable ingame on the fly. MassiveMobs are capable of this, they also cause immersion with events and bosses you would not see if we did not have them. These things make us unique. Instead of jumping to "lets remove it" as your first proposition you should think of ways we could improve the MassiveMobs experience such as "lowering their health so they get easier to kill". This is a good suggestion and people in this thread have made good arguments in favor of it. Saying MassiveMobs are hindering players from joining or getting into pvp is easily fixed by lowering damage and health of mobs making people able to kill them in non god armor with non god weapons. Which is what we have decided to do at this time.

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Just going to repeat my question because it was skipped over. But what would be so wrong with removing massive mobs in only one world? Not just for PvP and survival but also so we can obtain normal mob drops. I just don't see the harm in having normal mobs in one world

 

[Jalapeno690]

Between 10am-5pm GMT this server barely reaches over 50 people, after those times it barely reaches over 120 people on a monday to friday, at the weekends the log in numbers are roughly around 200 people at any time, of these numbers the lion share stays in regalia and hark on about lore compliancy etc few of them with no care in the world about factions or the mobs the faction worlds entail (where the quoted figure of 1500 genuine users comes from is beyond me), as important as it is for all to voice their opinions I agree with @Tokugawryuu on this issue

 

[onearmsquid]

Just going to repeat my question because it was skipped over. But what would be so wrong with removing massive mobs in only one world? Not just for PvP and survival but also so we can obtain normal mob drops. I just don't see the harm in having normal mobs in one world

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I think they aren't going to do this as vanilla mobs cause more lag than MassiveMobs, I believe MonMarty stated this in one of his replies but I am not 100% if this is true.

 

[65jes89]

I think they aren't going to do this as vanilla mobs cause more lag than MassiveMobs, I believe MonMarty stated this in one of his replies but I am not 100% if this is true.

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It's still very much possible to spawn vanilla mobs using the MassiveMobs plugin. They wouldn't cause anymore lag.

 

[onearmsquid]

It's still very much possible to spawn vanilla mobs using the MassiveMobs plugin. They wouldn't cause anymore lag.

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Wouldn't it be easier to just nerf the current MassiveMobs though instead of creating vanilla type mobs through the MassiveMobs plugin?

 

[Thortuna]

Wouldn't it be easier to just nerf the current MassiveMobs though instead of creating vanilla type mobs through the MassiveMobs plugin?

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They were already nerfed.

 

[FlamingSock]

I don't think mobs should be nerfed, they provide challenge. However, I do think they should be restricted to one or two worlds. This way if people want to avoid them, they can.