Rejected Removal Of Massivemobs

Discussion in 'Feature & Idea Discussion - Archive' started by jquaile, Sep 6, 2016.

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  1. jquaile

    jquaile Beggar

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    Massivemobs
    Recently combat traits were removed from Massive for reasons including, that they made it considerably harder for new players to get into PvP on the server. Which I found strange seeing as the server seems completely unwilling to do anything about MassiveMobs, which in my opinion and many others, is far more of an obstacle to PvP on Massive.
    Firstly in regards to new players joining the server and getting involved in PvP. MassiveMobs are far, far more difficult to kill than vanilla mobs and killing mobs is vital to becoming part of the PvP community. To become an effective PvPer you need to kill mobs for materials such as gunpowder as well as vanilla and mcmmo exp.
    Without these things you cannot realistically enter the PvP community, however for some reason MassiveMobs have been made more and more difficult to kill despite the supposed aim of encouraging more PvP. The removal of combat traits has only further exacerbated this problem (although I have no problem with their removal this is entirely about MassiveMobs). The drops from MassiveMobs are also not helpful for aspiring members of the PvP community, random lored drops that don't stack and special items are all very nice but simply are not practical for those collecting resources for potions etc.
    Secondly the spawn rate for MassiveMobs is quite frankly insane, often it is nigh on impossible to PvP in the wilderness because you will be swarmed by MassiveMobs that do more damage than players. They have the capability of seriously interfering with raids which is illogical. My understanding was that Massivecraft's survival worlds were primarily about factions and that factions was essentially a PvP plugin, not PvE. Why then does MassiveMobs continue to exist in it's current state where it discourages PvP from taking place?
    Thirdly the damage that some mobs deal and how long it can take to kill them compared with the reward further adds to the situation. A green mob currently takes a considerable number of hits to kill and can easily kill a player if they are not careful, however the potential reward is incredibly limited, a regal and an essentially useless MassiveMobs drop.
    Cutting to the chase, PvE on massive has been incredibly overdeveloped for a server that is supposed to be factions. People want to spend their time in factions fighting other players, not the mobs. They make it far more difficult for new players to get into PvP, the spawn rate is way to high, they drop many useless items and they are excessively hard to kill, particularly with the removal of combat traits.
    I would suggest at the very least temporarily disabling MassiveMobs so that it can be entirely reworked so as to deal with these issues, or removing it permanently. There were never any major issues with vanilla mob spawning as far as I am aware and I do not recall anyone ever asking for a plug-in like MassiveMobs. Yes, it was a nice concept but in its current format it is a considerable hindrance to PvP on Massive.
    @Game

     
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  2. Serpent__

    Serpent__ Peasant Beggar

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    But I love the heart attacks I get from getting shot from a tall tower while I'm building constantly.
     
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  3. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    I know you really don't want my opinion but I'm giving it to you anyway.

    With the removal of combat traits massive have slowly started to move toward any other factions server, losing a slight bit of uniqueness. Now the staff have told us that damage values will be investigated and reworked but of course there is no set end date for that to be finished. And im not crazy about removing any other unique things.

    Massivemobs, also obviously needs to be reworked. But I don't think removing it is the answer. I'm not too fond of having to hit a skeleton with a god axe 6 times before it dies but all that just needs to be reworked with the damage.
     
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  4. Serpent__

    Serpent__ Peasant Beggar

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    The "Please read the Subject again" rating is basically an insult. (I know you will press it)
     
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  5. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    It's as close to an insult as they can get
     
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  6. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    Yeah but what would be wrong with having normal mobs in at least one world so PvP wont be retarded every night time
     
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  7. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    I mean you could claim the land right? You have a leaky roof, and instead of fixing the leak, you're trying to remove the rain. Fix your damn leak and claim your land
     
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  8. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    The land is claimed. The mobs spawn outside and walk into it anyways.
     
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  9. jquaile

    jquaile Beggar

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    How about you stop flaming me on a thread, I clearly put effort into the post and quite frankly as all my friends are the pvpers and it's a post about pvp it makes sense if they agree with it doesn't it. I do believe that this will benefit pvp on the server.

    You didn't even bother to address any of the points I made, but I will give you the courtesy you seem unable to give me because of some kind of problem you seem to have with me.

    As to the uniqueness of massive, uniqueness is of course a potential selling point for the server, but only if it is a positive. Keeping a plug-in purely for the sake of uniqueness when it is not actually of any benefit just doesn't make sense to me. Like I said it doesn't have to be permanently removed but a temporary disabling of it while issues are ironed out would be more than acceptable.
     
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  10. FireFan96

    FireFan96 Imperial Bloodhound Staff Member Lore2
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    I do not want to see MassiveMobs go. Having stronger than vanilla mobs in a feature that I see as a plus for the server as a whole, not to mention one of the few reasons I see a challenge in survival.

    But, as a lot of players have started to say, they do need to be nerfed. Ever since 1.9, I've seen the mobs progressively become harder to kill. Maybe it partially has to do with the vanilla mob behavior, but that's something I'm fine with.

    I think the largest issue is that traits and combat was only done on a PvP perspective, with very little done for Mobs. Any casual darkroomer should probably be able to vouch for me that mobs have progressively gotten more resistant to any attacks we give them. The first large issue was when the HarmImmune trait was removed, and players were at the mercy of any thorn enchanted boss mob.

    And these things I've mentioned are only really factoring in using bows. Try going in with a sword or axe and you will have your ass handed to you in no time. The only way you can possibly get out alive is if you run to a safehouse and pray you can kill the cave spiders in time. then proceed to slice and dice mobs behind walls and fences.

    With the removal of combat related traits, I've essentially left darkrooming indefinitely. Without having Wither and poison immunity, you will die attacking any mobs. And the lack of strength boosts further inhibits attacks. While getting negative traits isn't that bad (just get all the light and water negatives) there are few anti-mob traits left besides having to truce everything. And then once you make contact with a mob you will end up dead once their buddies come and gang up on you.

    So, the way I see it, MassiveMobs needs a buttload of tweaking for it to work in the new system. Removing it is pointless, as it is one of the few things that keeps Massive unique.

    And yes, I do understand how it is a pain in the ass to have to fight a two front war every time you raid at night. But in the end, having vanilla mobs would just turn away people who are looking for something different from other faction/survival servers. Take this from a guy who came to massive from one of those servers.

    Or you can just place torches down. Sounds stupid, but it does solve the issue. Or try the truce everything and only raid at night.

    TL;DR MassiveMobs is heavily broken, and I'd rather see it heavily nerfed and edited than removed, because I like the idea of having boss mobs and stronger than vanilla mobs.

    I'm not going to reply to anything in this thread. I just wanted to throw this out for my own thoughts on the matter. I've come to realize in my year of Massive that as soon as a PvP bandwagon hops on a thread, the entire premise of it goes down the crapper. So, without that, continue to flood the salt mines some more. Just know that there are other things in survival besides raiding. Isolating one group in favor of another won't grow a community.

    TL;DR MassiveMobs is heavily broken, and I'd rather see it heavily nerfed and edited than removed, because I like the idea of having boss mobs and stronger than vanilla mobs. This is coming from someone who does darkroom and has seen the struggle first hand.
     
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    #10 FireFan96, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  11. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
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    I didn't disregard your post, but your idea to remove them doesn't quite make sense for your reason for wanting to remove them. You don't like them when you are fighting... then why are you fighting in Wilderness land? You know the rules for the mobs. If it's on your land they won't spawn in so long as you have that flag off. I just don't see the reason for disabling the entire plug-in until it's fixed when you can simply claim the land.
     
  12. Tokuu

    Tokuu Dvorin Onyxbeard, Belegostian Elder

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    This is something that almost all PvPers have been saying for a very long time, yet every time it's brought up it's always shut down by people who don't frequently interact with the mobs. @Zacatero you might think you have valid points, but just listen this time. MassiveMobs do not need a rework. They spawn too much, give very little vanilla xp and the damage they give and receive is on either end of the extreme. Not to mention the drop rate from resources such as gunpowder is decreased due to things like Vampiric Dust. Furthermore, the effects of poison from cave spiders and wither from the skeletons are increased by the lag on the server, which means they last considerably longer than they are supposed to, dealing even more damage than they should.

    I get it, there needs to be some PvE on the server, such as when we had Void events, they were fun, because they were scripted, set events where you were supposed to have to deal with hard mobs. New players getting into PvP and older players grinding stats are finding it increasingly difficult to get anywhere, and are being driven away as a result. This isn't something we complain about just to complain, this is something we've all always been unhappy about, because it's always been broken.

    And if you don't think they're broken, sit in a darkroom (even einhaender, which is completely full of every beacon under the sun) and see how long it takes the mobs to kill you. Not to mention the sheer number of them can make FPS tank in a few seconds.

    The people who generally disagree with these points are people who sit in Regalia and do nothing but RP all day, then come back and fight a zombie or two. MassiveMobs was a fantastic idea in theory, but in practice, it just makes time on the server considerably less enjoyable for people who spend their time in survival worlds.
     
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  13. feiooos

    feiooos Raptoom's Skullcracker

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    Well I consider myself a friend of jquaile and I don't want Massivemobs to be removed (surprise!). Like znake said, it is an unique approach to Minecraft monsters and hopefully programmed well enough to be more efficient than vanilla mobs, despite what the general opinion about them is.

    They are very annoying to a point where they can be a 3rd party in a PvP raid. Still it makes it unique to have special types of monster hordes trying to eat me (or whatever). Nerfing damage/debuffs is the only thing it needs. Maybe reducing spawn rate of it when it's daylight and allow special types of them spawn in daylight.
     
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  14. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    If you were a PvPer and fully understood what we were talking about I'd understand, but you really don't. If you're fighting in the same place for a while, mobs are going to enter the land. And not just two or three mobs. Swarms of them that debuff you, drop shit in your inventory, knock you into traps, prevent you from teleporting. I don't want to disregard people's posts but you seem to just disagree with most things PvPers write under suggestions.

    Also, raids happen in wilderness land because that's how factions works and has always worked. "Claim the whole fucking world" isnt' a good solution. You're also not saying that massive mobs are good. You're just telling us to avoid them, which we can't. So I'm really not even sure why you're supporting them.
     
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  15. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    I'm just saying the solution can't always be to just remove it. Remove vampires. Remove mcmmo. Remove combat traits. Remove massivmobs.
     
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  16. Tokuu

    Tokuu Dvorin Onyxbeard, Belegostian Elder

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    If it's broken beyond any feasible point of repair, remove it.
     
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  17. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    Have you ever used combat traits, vampires or mcmmo on an actual raid?
     
  18. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    Yes?
     
  19. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    I mean against PvPers that know what they're doing
     
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  20. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    Lol idk about that one. We have differing opinions on that
     
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  21. Gabauchi

    Gabauchi Goblin Babe (Local Hotsexy)

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    can we actually vote for it this time tho?
     
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  22. CnocBride

    CnocBride Regalian Noble

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    I would love Vanilla Mobs to be reintroduced but I would like them to make some drops as well so that it isn't totally useless.
     
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  23. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    Mobs such as orcs etc should have a specific place to spawn, currently it is a joke where and when they spawn as well as the vast quantities, too many mobs are getting in the way of progress, whether it is a build or travel or even pvp, I feel they add to the game but at the same time it is a double edged sword.
     
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  24. TheOverseer__

    TheOverseer__ Captain of Laveer

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    I get that things can interfere with PvP and that's a shame, but I play on massive because it is unique and different from other servers. I honestly do go to my DR on occasion and fight mobs because it's fun (especially when yellow mobs spawn). If we slowly chip away and remove everything that is unique, wouldn't it be just the same as leaving and going to another more vanilla server?

    Believe me, I've had my moments where I was quite frustrated with massive mobs because I didn't feel like fighting them, but vanilla mobs are so easy it is joke-worthy. We might as well completely remove all mob spawning before just going to vanilla mobs. In full God armor with Thorns III, you could stand around and just kill mobs with your thorns and never die.

    Considering that God armor is worth no more than 200r these days and a Thorns III book is at 140r tops, you could literally just log in once a day to visit John the pious for a week and then buy everything you need for the PvE struggle to be effectively over. Why go to vanilla mobs if all you are really doing is completely removing PvE?

    I would be supportive if there were at least daily PvE events (preferably multiple times a day) where I could potentially go to just have some fun with PvE (and not the events with mobs so stupidly strong that you need to just pummel them 10000 times to kill them and just die repeatedly from the Thorns XX). I am all about suggesting ideas that help the various communities on the server all have fun, but PvE is a real thing that would be ruined by this suggestion and I would hope that the PvP community would be more accommodating to others than to just try and push for its complete removal. I do agree some slight nerfs to various massive mobs would help things now that there are no combat traits.
     
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  25. DrFong

    DrFong The Knave of Rats

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    How about a $5 donation to turn MassiveMobs off for an hour? Would you donate to get what you want?

    I think MassiveMobs is a lot of fun, but can see it being a challenge for newer/unprepaired players.
     
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  26. Sevak

    Sevak King of Deldrimor Premium

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    I'd like PvE events too. I think those are lots of fun and I've always taken part in those. I also want to keep massive unique but when PvE gets in the way of every single raid we try to have in the factions world (which isn't that many these days) then I've got a problem with it. I don't see why removing them in just one or two worlds and replacing them with normal mobs is such a huge problem though
     
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  27. jquaile

    jquaile Beggar

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    I and a majority of people I play with at the least are students at university or school. As is the majority of the population on the server I believe and therefore no we don't have $5 to turn off mobs whenever we want to pvp. Also it doesn't fix the issues mentioned entirely, what about new players? They're not gonna want to spend $5 so they can get started without being butchered by op mobs
     
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  28. Tokuu

    Tokuu Dvorin Onyxbeard, Belegostian Elder

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    Yes I want to spend money every single time I want to PvP because I have endless amounts of it. I already donate to the server through premium, and even that's debatable on if I want to keep paying since I get little to no benefit any more. Why on earth would I want to pay more just so I can do what I actually play Massive for? We want to entice new PvPers, not drive away current ones.
     
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  29. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    It would. The EULA would mark it incompliant if its something like... donate $5 and only you or your faction gets the boost. But if its the entire server there is no issue
     
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  30. DrewRat24

    DrewRat24

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    How about we make Massive Mobs like they used to be and have them in Fendarfell only
     
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  31. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    I totally agree with you, the Baver events especially have been quite allot of fun and more of these events should happen, perhaps they could have made the undead attacking regalia a PvE event, perhaps a remedy should be found that no mobs spawn within so many chunks of potential pvp areas eg faction land, yes i know in worlds like teled this will be near impossible due to the shear over crowding of faction lands, but something perhaps that could be looked into.
     
  32. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    I'm more for reducing the spawn rate and making the Massive mobs that do spawn more "special", Like Withers for example. I'm sick to death of struggling with hordes of mobs when it's player interaction I'm after. Not being able to pot because I end up with an inventory full of useless items is also annoying as hell. Reduce the spawn rate and/or limit them to certain worlds/servers within Massivecraft please. You will have more beginner friendly worlds this way... well, unless we find them ofc.
     
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  33. Magivore

    Magivore No Rest For The Wicked Staff Member Lore1

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    Although I personally do agree with the removal of massive mobs (I used to die to those more than raiders, and my raiders would fear those more than they would fear me!), I think it's rather cheap how fast some of these people are at being passive aggressive. Sure, you might disagree with @Zacatero or @DrFong , and even see their argument as poor, but the whole point of a discussion thread is to get the views of everyone involved (PvE, Player Versus Environment, which means everyone who uses factions, does PvP, or even does a bit of both, or lack therefore of, with roleplay in these survival worlds), not just 14 people who all agree and have nothing else to say besides 'yes please'. After all, it'd be a bad idea to cut straight to an idea without even once allowing someone who disagrees to say why or any other possible solutions (which they did), as even the 'worst' ideas could eventually make a good one.

    To hop off my soap box: as much as massive mobs are fun to fight, it's not entertaining when they are absolutely everywhere. Even if just a world was made as a non-build, constant PvE fighting raid bosses (as only Arach'n currently exists with only spiders), that'd be fine. Even decreasing their loot and damage / spawn rate would be fine. If nothing can be done, however, I say it should go poof, as I do find it ridiculous how 3 zombies in chainmail are more dangerous than 1 unsure roleplayer in diamond armour...
     
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    #33 Magivore, Sep 6, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  34. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    With respect you may need to re-read several of the arguments, different thoughts and opinions have been laid out and not all follow the "yes please" mantra, most tend to be frank if anything, as much as I agree with @DrFong, unfortunately I feel it is a forgone conclusion that idea will never happen, I myself have 4 years worth of a student loan to pay and 5 dollars/pounds is just a tad too much especially in todays climate.
     
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  35. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    they dont all follow the "yes please" mantra but when you post something of a differing opinion and all the lackeys negatively rate your post... it sure does appear that way
     
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  36. Knyxo

    Knyxo Refugee

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    For comparison's sake, I used to raise my stats in a simple darkroom with vanilla mobs, with no strength beacon, traits didn't exist yet, I used an unenchanted diamond weapon, and wore iron armor(since I didn't have premium, and non-prems couldn't wear diamond) and did alright for the most part. This is now completely unfeasible; You pretty much need god equipment now, and fighting massivemobs is hell without a strength buff unless you're fighting them one at a time. And even if you have all that, some mobs(most notably cave spiders and archer skeletons that have 100 health or more) will be obnoxious to deal with no matter how well geared you are. And this is just when you're in a darkroom, going out of your way to fight them. They're even more annoying when you're above ground doing something else and they constantly harass you.

    But what triggers me more than anything else is the drops. Because no. I don't want Cheat Sheets. I don't want random pieces of black carpet dropping from Endermen. I don't want 'Rotten Potatoes'. It's literally just a 'Poisonous Potato'....with a different name. All that means is it doesn't stack and it clogs my inventory. Stop it!
     
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  37. jquaile

    jquaile Beggar

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    You literally are exacerbating the issue by constantly bringing it up, lets just let it lie from here and just discuss the issue because it was a serious post.
     
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  38. TheOverseer__

    TheOverseer__ Captain of Laveer

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    Yeah, while I don't agree with the pvpers on this subject of the removal of massive mobs, thread flaming isn't going to help or change anybody's view.

    I think I am hearing people's complaints here and I think these suggestions could make everybody happy:
    1. Make drops more vanilla. Maybe remove some of the 'useless' lore drops like 'Religious Idol' and replace them with more rare lore items. Maybe have them drop something like 'Orc Priest Idol' and make it like a 0.001% chance. This server needs a way to get lore items since voting rewards were removed, right?
    2. Decrease all health, armor, and damage of massive mobs by 10%
    3. Decrease spawn rate by 20%
    We have to remember that none of us are game admins, so none of us know what sort of work would be involved in these nerfs. Massivemob's code is not even available on the Massivecraft's Github so none of us could even look at the code to see what type of configuration the plugin has. I imagine the most efficient way to do it would be a dictionary object containing an array of possible entities. Each entity would have a predefined set of attributes associated with the class and then the code would probably work on the generation of these entities.

    @Game Would it be worthwhile to put Massivemobs on Github so the community could help refine the mobs dictionary to address these issues? Or is it possible these are easy enough tweaks that we could do any of these things without completely removing an aspect of the game that some people truly love?
     
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  39. shinbun

    shinbun The Tickler

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    I was told they were going to try to fix shake from fishing months ago. Fishing rods still get stuck on mobs without any ability to pull back. This one makes fishing s completely useless mcmmo skill. Also it's frightening that the simple fix has not been looked at in months.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  40. shinbun

    shinbun The Tickler

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    Massive mobs break armor faster than traxex before the armor dmg cap so after a week of getting free money, which is destroying the massive economy, your armor breaks in less than an hour.
     
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