Archived Removal Of Massivemobs

[jquaile]

Massivemobs
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Recently combat traits were removed from Massive for reasons including, that they made it considerably harder for new players to get into PvP on the server. Which I found strange seeing as the server seems completely unwilling to do anything about MassiveMobs, which in my opinion and many others, is far more of an obstacle to PvP on Massive. ​

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Firstly in regards to new players joining the server and getting involved in PvP. MassiveMobs are far, far more difficult to kill than vanilla mobs and killing mobs is vital to becoming part of the PvP community. To become an effective PvPer you need to kill mobs for materials such as gunpowder as well as vanilla and mcmmo exp. ​

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Without these things you cannot realistically enter the PvP community, however for some reason MassiveMobs have been made more and more difficult to kill despite the supposed aim of encouraging more PvP. The removal of combat traits has only further exacerbated this problem (although I have no problem with their removal this is entirely about MassiveMobs). The drops from MassiveMobs are also not helpful for aspiring members of the PvP community, random lored drops that don't stack and special items are all very nice but simply are not practical for those collecting resources for potions etc. ​

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Secondly the spawn rate for MassiveMobs is quite frankly insane, often it is nigh on impossible to PvP in the wilderness because you will be swarmed by MassiveMobs that do more damage than players. They have the capability of seriously interfering with raids which is illogical. My understanding was that Massivecraft's survival worlds were primarily about factions and that factions was essentially a PvP plugin, not PvE. Why then does MassiveMobs continue to exist in it's current state where it discourages PvP from taking place?​

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Thirdly the damage that some mobs deal and how long it can take to kill them compared with the reward further adds to the situation. A green mob currently takes a considerable number of hits to kill and can easily kill a player if they are not careful, however the potential reward is incredibly limited, a regal and an essentially useless MassiveMobs drop. ​

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Cutting to the chase, PvE on massive has been incredibly overdeveloped for a server that is supposed to be factions. People want to spend their time in factions fighting other players, not the mobs. They make it far more difficult for new players to get into PvP, the spawn rate is way to high, they drop many useless items and they are excessively hard to kill, particularly with the removal of combat traits.​

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I would suggest at the very least temporarily disabling MassiveMobs so that it can be entirely reworked so as to deal with these issues, or removing it permanently. There were never any major issues with vanilla mob spawning as far as I am aware and I do not recall anyone ever asking for a plug-in like MassiveMobs. Yes, it was a nice concept but in its current format it is a considerable hindrance to PvP on Massive.
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@Game

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[shinbun]

For comparison's sake, I used to raise my stats in a simple darkroom with vanilla mobs, with no strength beacon, traits didn't exist yet, I used an unenchanted diamond weapon, and wore iron armor(since I didn't have premium, and non-prems couldn't wear diamond) and did alright for the most part. This is now completely unfeasible; You pretty much need god equipment now, and fighting massivemobs is hell without a strength buff unless you're fighting them one at a time. And even if you have all that, some mobs(most notably cave spiders and archer skeletons that have 100 health or more) will be obnoxious to deal with no matter how well geared you are. And this is just when you're in a darkroom, going out of your way to fight them. They're even more annoying when you're above ground doing something else and they constantly harass you.

But what triggers me more than anything else is the drops. Because no. I don't want Cheat Sheets. I don't want random pieces of black carpet dropping from Endermen. I don't want 'Rotten Potatoes'. It's literally just a 'Poisonous Potato'....with a different name. All that means is it doesn't stack and it clogs my inventory. Stop it!

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I love you Knyxor <3 please dont go shinzy will miss you

 

[shinbun]

Yeah, while I don't agree with the pvpers on this subject of the removal of massive mobs, thread flaming isn't going to help or change anybody's view.

I think I am hearing people's complaints here and I think these suggestions could make everybody happy:

1. Make drops more vanilla. Maybe remove some of the 'useless' lore drops like 'Religious Idol' and replace them with more rare lore items. Maybe have them drop something like 'Orc Priest Idol' and make it like a 0.001% chance. This server needs a way to get lore items since voting rewards were removed, right?
2. Decrease all health, armor, and damage of massive mobs by 10%
3. Decrease spawn rate by 20%

We have to remember that none of us are game admins, so none of us know what sort of work would be involved in these nerfs. Massivemob's code is not even available on the Massivecraft's Github so none of us could even look at the code to see what type of configuration the plugin has. I imagine the most efficient way to do it would be a dictionary object containing an array of possible entities. Each entity would have a predefined set of attributes associated with the class and then the code would probably work on the generation of these entities.

@Game Would it be worthwhile to put Massivemobs on Github so the community could help refine the mobs dictionary to address these issues? Or is it possible these are easy enough tweaks that we could do any of these things without completely removing an aspect of the game that some people truly love?

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10% decrease of health will do literally nothing. I used to be able to two shot all zombies with my fists now I hit them and it doesn't do jack shit. A 10% decrease will on paper maybe seem great, but 100health down to 90 only means I have to hit the mob maybe a few times less. Still takes me 45seconds to kill a mob instead of like 2.

 

[65jes89]

Would it be worthwhile to put Massivemobs on Github so the community could help refine the mobs dictionary to address these issues? Or is it possible these are easy enough tweaks that we could do any of these things without completely removing an aspect of the game that some people truly love?

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Massivemobs is very intentionally closed source, and I sincerely doubt Cayorion would be willing to make it open-source, especially considering how few people could actually read the code any get anything out of it anyways.

 

[TheOverseer__]

Massive mobs break armor faster than traxex before the armor dmg cap so after a week of getting free money, which is destroying the massive economy, your armor breaks in less than an hour.

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I'm not sure if you actually read the post you quoted, but the suggestion I made was that Vanilla Mobs are too weak to be relevant with how easy God armor is to get.

10% decrease of health will do literally nothing. I used to be able to two shot all zombies with my fists now I hit them and it doesn't do jack shit. A 10% decrease will on paper maybe seem great, but 100health down to 90 only means I have to hit the mob maybe a few times less. Still takes me 45seconds to kill a mob instead of like 2

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The numbers are plenty debatable. Would 50% do it? 75%? Maybe 75% health and 25% less damage? All you are doing here is refusing to be constructive. Instead of just whining for the complete removal and nothing else will satisfy you, consider that others like the plugin and brainstorm what would make it acceptable to you?

Massivemobs is very intentionally closed source, and I sincerely doubt Cayorion would be willing to make it open-source, especially considering how few people could actually read the code any get anything out of it anyways.

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Okay. I can read Java source code and would be more than willing to spend my time if it meant not just watching another beloved part of my home server get whined out of existence. If the whole plugin is just going to get deprecated and removed, why not open it up? That's rhetorical, you can't possibly answer that.

 

[Tokuu]

Yeah, while I don't agree with the pvpers on this subject of the removal of massive mobs, thread flaming isn't going to help or change anybody's view.

I think I am hearing people's complaints here and I think these suggestions could make everybody happy:

1. Make drops more vanilla. Maybe remove some of the 'useless' lore drops like 'Religious Idol' and replace them with more rare lore items. Maybe have them drop something like 'Orc Priest Idol' and make it like a 0.001% chance. This server needs a way to get lore items since voting rewards were removed, right?
2. Decrease all health, armor, and damage of massive mobs by 10%
3. Decrease spawn rate by 20%

We have to remember that none of us are game admins, so none of us know what sort of work would be involved in these nerfs. Massivemob's code is not even available on the Massivecraft's Github so none of us could even look at the code to see what type of configuration the plugin has. I imagine the most efficient way to do it would be a dictionary object containing an array of possible entities. Each entity would have a predefined set of attributes associated with the class and then the code would probably work on the generation of these entities.

@Game Would it be worthwhile to put Massivemobs on Github so the community could help refine the mobs dictionary to address these issues? Or is it possible these are easy enough tweaks that we could do any of these things without completely removing an aspect of the game that some people truly love?

Click to shrink...

I know you don't agree with us, but look at it from our perspective. There are countless other servers we could PvP on, but we stay on massive because of the community we've made here. Massivemobs make looting, travelling, and especially PvPing an absolute nightmare. On top of the damage from players to mobs being reduced, the lag from the server (which a whole lot of us think is still partially down to mobs, since a whole lot of the lag is still there even after all the supposed fixes) means the added effects (poison, wither) last even longer than they should, slowing movement and meaning PvP is just less fun.
I know, they make the sever unique, and they offer a challenge which isn't shown in another server, but in practical actuality, they just don't work. Large, frequent events would be far more enjoyable and practical, offering people a safer environment to PvE within whilst maintaining what the majority of the players sticking to the survival worlds want: the removal of a plugin which has been the subject of, perhaps, the most contention between players and staff on the server for the best part of a year or so.

 

[Thorjl]

Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic.

You can still farm mobs in a group with some strategy and coordination. Been enjoying the new challenge.

 

[feiooos]

Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic.

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lol

 

[morrc5]

Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic.

You can still farm mobs in a group with some strategy and coordination. Been enjoying the new challenge.

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Have you ever PvP'd properly before? You need potions to actually fight and survive, and it's a minecraft, a block game. I don't want to have to use strategy and coordination to kill mobs.

 

[Zacatero]

Minecraft is a block game if you are in creative mode. If you are in any other mode its a survival and strategy game

 

[feiooos]

You run and jump on blocks either you try to survive or build, pvp or pve............................................................

 

[soapboxstage]

I would prefer undeadtruce and the other truces if one needs to pvp in a mob field.

 

[Zacatero]

I would prefer undeadtruce and the other truces if one needs to pvp in a mob field.

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With combat traits removed those could easily be added... but on the flipside since combat traits were removed its harder to get non-direct inhibiting negative traits.

 

[Sevak]

Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic.

You can still farm mobs in a group with some strategy and coordination. Been enjoying the new challenge.

Click to shrink...

Learn how to use them and you'll like them. You drop health way too quickly for there to not be potions.

 

[Sevak]

With combat traits removed those could easily be added... but on the flipside since combat traits were removed its harder to get non-direct inhibiting negative traits.

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No one wants to spend all their trait points just to put up with Massive Mobs. Speed 2, feedalways are essential to survival right now since most people use them. If I go raid with every single truce on I'm going to have no survivability against the actual players that I went there to fight

 

[65jes89]

Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic.

You can still farm mobs in a group with some strategy and coordination. Been enjoying the new challenge.

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LOL

 

[Zacatero]

No one wants to spend all their trait points just to put up with Massive Mobs. Speed 2, feedalways are essential to survival right now since most people use them. If I go raid with every single truce on I'm going to have no survivability against the actual players that I went there to fight

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No im agreeing with you. I'm saying that the current choices for negative traits directly effect your movement and health and hunger. Like Slowness, Starve[Effect], or Harm[Effect]... so its not worth it for those traits anymore to have the truce[mob] traits

 

[Sevak]

No im agreeing with you. I'm saying that the current choices for negative traits directly effect your movement and health and hunger. Like Slowness, Starve[Effect], or Harm[Effect]... so its not worth it for those traits anymore to have the truce[mob] traits

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Oh okay

 

[MonMarty]

Let's remain constructive.

FACT: MassiveMobs does not create the excessive lag on the server.

"but we the PVP'ers think, because!-"

No. Stop. You don't know what you're talking about. The server latency is influenced by a whole host of factors which frequently get investigated / patched up by Cayorion on the fly. MassiveMobs produces less server latency than vanilla mobs because of changed spawning algorithms and mob pathfinding. If you find yourself a PVP'er and you have never coded any plugins, looked at a server console or dealt with networking, then you have no clue what you're talking about and any assumption you make on the source of lag is invalid, no matter the circumstantial evidence that may support your claim. Evidence versus Instance. Deal only in facts.

FACT: the VAST majority of the lag is caused by Hoppers.

This is both a combination of an internal issue (from what I've understood from tech) within the server framework spigot that we run (thus unavoidable) and Cayorion has done everything he could to do bug reports / talk to devs. Aside from that we have to contend with Mojang's shitty netcode when it comes to their own network features, plugin devs are constantly working to optimize the sourcecode, but this is often a losing battle. Simple solution? Disable hoppers. Problem with that? Pvp'ers complain we are making PVP harder because they have to manually brew/store items in a chest instead of just tossing everything down a massive hopper sorter. Keep hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about lag and start attacking every other plugin they don't like. Remove hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about making their lives harder. It's a viscious cycle.

There is no obvious solution to this, if there was one we would have already applied it. Staff frequently scour worlds to delete hopper contraptions to keep TPS up. Any hopper combination is viable to cause TPS drops, they don't even have to be active, they just need to have things in them and be hooked up to a chest and things go south from there.

Back to the subject at hand.

MassiveMobs is an extremely powerful and well coded plugin, that means to say, the plugin is not broken in any way. It is a framework with features that enables us to design custom mobs. Any of the mobs you meet in-game are specifically made by staff, none of them come pre-shipped. All their health, resistances, weapons and armor are defined by us as well as the drops. Basically, in theory we could throw all custom mobs out and put vanilla mobs in there and it would work the same but the server would suffer less latency issues than with Vanilla mobs, but we choose not to obviously because that will alter our server identity. We don't want to be just any other factions server. If you have a problem with MassiveMobs, I would suggest funneling the issues down to a clearer bullet point list as such:

• Mobs have unstackable drops which makes farming them difficult/slow.
• Mobs have rediculous high health geared towards god gear making them difficult to kill for low/mid range players.
• There is no staggering of level difficulty. Any mob difficulty spawns basically anywhere.

These are just to name a few. If you as a player can produce a clearer list of the exact problem instead of saying "plugin's broken, remove it", we are able to consider changes. Addrion makes most of the mobs for new releases and for quests and he is certainly also able to modify their values. A simple solution to the unstackable drop issue for example is to remove all non-lore or non-valuable items and remove the lore names so they become stackable for those non-lore items. But in order for us to be critically able to consider these changes, what is exactly identified as the issue of MassiveMobs needs to be more clear instead of a flat denunciation of the plugin on meritless arguments like "it causes lag". Players/Hoppers/Anti Cheating Plugins cause lag too and we're not removing those from the server either. Anything in existence causes lag, but MassiveMobs is very low on that scale of lag causing identifiers.

 

[Chappers]

My name is Chappers and i work at McDonalds

This is my dog murphy i have to work the street corner to pay for food for him

 

[65jes89]

• Mobs have unstackable drops which makes farming them difficult/slow.

• Mobs have rediculous high health geared towards god gear making them difficult to kill for low/mid range players.

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Fix these two and it would be a lot better already. Personally I'd prefer to mostly have common mobs, because they're a lot easier to darkroom, and then have the higher tiered mobs spawn a little more frequently; phase out the blue and green a bit, they're really more annoying than anything else. Also removing, or at least reducing, the debuffs which mobs give on hits would fix a lot of the problems. I personally dislike darkrooming with massivemobs largely because it means fighting while constantly being withered, poisoned, and slowed.

 

[Tokuu]

Let's remain constructive.

FACT: MassiveMobs does not create the excessive lag on the server.

"but we the PVP'ers think, because!-"

No. Stop. You don't know what you're talking about. The server latency is influenced by a whole host of factors which frequently get investigated / patched up by Cayorion on the fly. MassiveMobs produces less server latency than vanilla mobs because of changed spawning algorithms and mob pathfinding. If you find yourself a PVP'er and you have never coded any plugins, looked at a server console or dealt with networking, then you have no clue what you're talking about and any assumption you make on the source of lag is invalid, no matter the circumstantial evidence that may support your claim. Evidence versus Instance. Deal only in facts.

FACT: the VAST majority of the lag is caused by Hoppers.

This is both a combination of an internal issue (from what I've understood from tech) within the server framework spigot that we run (thus unavoidable) and Cayorion has done everything he could to do bug reports / talk to devs. Aside from that we have to contend with Mojang's shitty netcode when it comes to their own network features, plugin devs are constantly working to optimize the sourcecode, but this is often a losing battle. Simple solution? Disable hoppers. Problem with that? Pvp'ers complain we are making PVP harder because they have to manually brew/store items in a chest instead of just tossing everything down a massive hopper sorter. Keep hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about lag and start attacking every other plugin they don't like. Remove hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about making their lives harder. It's a viscious cycle.

There is no obvious solution to this, if there was one we would have already applied it. Staff frequently scour worlds to delete hopper contraptions to keep TPS up. Any hopper combination is viable to cause TPS drops, they don't even have to be active, they just need to have things in them and be hooked up to a chest and things go south from there.

Back to the subject at hand.

MassiveMobs is an extremely powerful and well coded plugin, that means to say, the plugin is not broken in any way. It is a framework with features that enables us to design custom mobs. Any of the mobs you meet in-game are specifically made by staff, none of them come pre-shipped. All their health, resistances, weapons and armor are defined by us as well as the drops. Basically, in theory we could throw all custom mobs out and put vanilla mobs in there and it would work the same but the server would suffer less latency issues than with Vanilla mobs, but we choose not to obviously because that will alter our server identity. We don't want to be just any other factions server. If you have a problem with MassiveMobs, I would suggest funneling the issues down to a clearer bullet point list as such:

• Mobs have unstackable drops which makes farming them difficult/slow.
• Mobs have rediculous high health geared towards god gear making them difficult to kill for low/mid range players.
• There is no staggering of level difficulty. Any mob difficulty spawns basically anywhere.

These are just to name a few. If you as a player can produce a clearer list of the exact problem instead of saying "plugin's broken, remove it", we are able to consider changes. Addrion makes most of the mobs for new releases and for quests and he is certainly also able to modify their values. A simple solution to the unstackable drop issue for example is to remove all non-lore or non-valuable items and remove the lore names so they become stackable for those non-lore items. But in order for us to be critically able to consider these changes, what is exactly identified as the issue of MassiveMobs needs to be more clear instead of a flat denunciation of the plugin on meritless arguments like "it causes lag". Players/Hoppers/Anti Cheating Plugins cause lag too and we're not removing those from the server either. Anything in existence causes lag, but MassiveMobs is very low on that scale of lag causing identifiers.

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You got hung up on something I put in parentheses which wasn't included within the parent post. However, I'm going to ignore that and comment on the rest of your post.

We, as a server, didn't ask for custom mobs, and these mobs haven't improved the server experience for those who spend their time in the survival worlds.
We did not just state that the plugin is broken, if you actually took the time to read the post, you'd know we put the points into actual, coherent sentences within each post. But if you want a list of them, here:

• They spawn too frequently, causing FPS lag clientside and swarming even completely god armoured players in seconds
• The damage they deal in said swarms is completely too high
• The damage we deal to each mob, especially green and above, is absurdly low, with it taking even a few hits just to kill the standard massivemobs
• Their custom drops mean that it's harder to get viable materials for potions, and while PvPing, each player's inventory gets clogged with random, useless drops, oftentimes leading to deaths and not being able to pick up weapons from kills
• Upon dealing less damage and them dealing more to you, it's harder to darkroom and grind stats, leading to there being less new PvPers, effectively halting the continuation of PvPers (The last large group of people to join were Wolves, and that was a year ago now)
• The lag on the server (which is not caused by the high numbers of mobs continuously spawning) means that the effects from cave spiders (which do not spawn naturally without massivemobs) and wither skeletons (read previous parentheses) last far longer than they are intended to, adding to the already high damage output from mobs

I know, this is a plugin which the server takes great pride in, but the sheer number of people that agree with the post and the amount of times this argument has been brought to light should warrant some form of investigation into why there are grievances within the community.
(All information obtained in these points was taken from the parent post of this thread by @jquaile and the post slightly further down by myself, which all could have been obtained simply by reading the posts we wrote)

 

[Violettee]

Yeah the first few ranks of massivemobs are useless. They're only really fun/rewarding from Yellow upwards, their spawn rate is nice too.

 

[MonMarty]

We, as a server, didn't ask for custom mobs

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Keep in mind, you speak for yourself, not the server. You do not speak for 1400 daily active unique players nor the players who were actively excited when MassiveMobs was first released/announced. You speak out of consent by your friends/associates, and just because this comparatively small group of people keeps bringing up the same thing doesn't mean the issue becomes more valid. Keep your arguments representative instead of assigning greater value to them without basis. You are not any more "the server" than I am, but ultimately in order for changes to take place they need to be supported by valid argumentation with stable logic rested in fact, not sentiment and emotion. On MassiveCraft the loud few will never be able to overrule the silent many, that is why we do polls every now and then in various segments in the community. I cannot arbitrarily change something because I feel like it. Even staff are limited to the consensus of research powered alternatives.

Regardless. Your bullet points are taken into account. Here's what I can promise to this particular matter:

• I will bring the matter up to the Direction Staff next meeting. I do not have any personal hand in mob creation so this will mostly be Addrion's call given he has made most of the mobs.
• Regardless of whether he agrees on the difficulty changes of the mobs, I am going to very strongly argue in favor of dropping the renamed/custom lore common items that have no intricate market value so that the only loot pieces that do not stack are actual lore items with value.
• I will consider making my next map release an experimental vanilla mobs only map. I can't make any guarantees on this as I haven't even started making a new map yet, but when the claim limit discussion is finished up to a satisfactory degree on my end, then I commence production.

The point of a Feature & idea discussion thread always remains to constructively debate the merit of features or ideas with sound arguments. That means not greenhouse opposing views as invalid or denouncing them with simple shit answers. If you just want to scream an opinion out in public and get a bunch of people to agree to it you might as well just send me a forum PM with a list of names of the people who agree with your idea instead of pretending it's an actual discussion.

(the above statement was more a broad statement for this thread, not so much a reply directly to you)

 

[Gabauchi]

If you just want to scream an opinion out in public and get a bunch of people to agree to it you might as well just send me a forum PM with a list of names of the people who agree with your idea instead of pretending it's an actual discussion.

Click to shrink...

so wait what is your stance on petitions

 

[MonMarty]

so wait what is your stance on petitions

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Petitions are always welcome as long as they are actual petitions sent to staff instead of just threads where OP says "look at how many people support me" (when they are actually just 20 out of 1400 players) "Implement this now or we expose you for the dictatorial staff you are!". The idea with petitions though is that they should be supported by facts and arguments, not just "do this pls because it'd be interesting".

 

[Violettee]

1400 players... and how many of those are inactive or sit in regalia all day?

 

[Zacatero]

1400 daily active unique players

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[MonMarty]

1400 players... and how many of those are inactive or sit in regalia all day?

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Standard of behavior should not disallow someone from having an opinion. That way you enter a slippery slope of arbitrarily tossing an entire population aside conveniently because they disagree with your point of view. In order for discussions to remain constructive, everyone needs to have a chance to have a say in the matter and their words should be evaluated with equal weight.

 

[Violettee]

Standard of behavior should not disallow someone from having an opinion. That way you enter a slippery slope of arbitrarily tossing an entire population aside conveniently because they disagree with your point of view. In order for discussions to remain constructive, everyone needs to have a chance to have a say in the matter and their words should be evaluated with equal weight.

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I'm just saying maybe narrow that number down a bit, some players are irrelevent in this

 

[Kidmodo]

@MonMarty

Why not go back to having some MassiveMobs in some world and none in others. Such as when only Fender and Daedroc had massive mobs but Ithania NC and other worlds didnt. TBH I would be fine with that change since the player gets to choose if they want to fight massive mobs or normal mobs

 

[RubyDiam]

I uh, agree with the fact that MassiveMobs are a little too strong, Buuut.
You have to at least agree, that a lot of thought was put into the Plugin, and it is actually, very well made, but, it'll take quite a long time to change things, considering that a mod can't just go 'Oop, change this', it has to be a selective decision.

But, I'm no PvP-er myself, I don't go much in the Survival worlds, if only to store things/grab things, but, I can see how that MassiveMobs could be a problem, but, I mean, they're still a very good addition, despite being a tad annoying.

I'd say the change is needed, buuut, not Immediately, it can be put on halt until all the current issues are solved, like bugs/Limit Claims, all of that.
But, That's just my Opinion on the matter, It's a nice plugin, but, needs a little bit of tweaking. And the Lore Item's are quite nice (Even if they aren't worth anything), but, probably not useful for a PvP-er, unfortunately.

 

[soapboxstage]

I think the massivemobs are a bit too strong but if you really can't put up with it there are undeadtruce and other traits that will obliterate these problems.

 

[soapboxstage]

Though in the beginning of the game, it is literally running for resources and hiding and tp-ing away.

 

[RubyDiam]

I think the massivemobs are a bit too strong but if you really can't put up with it there are undeadtruce and other traits that will obliterate these problems.

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UndeadTruce, SpiderTruce, WitchTruce, CreeperTruce, etc, etc. Aren't a thing anymore, I believe.

 

[soapboxstage]

Nope they sure are!

 

[Zacatero]

UndeadTruce, SpiderTruce, WitchTruce, CreeperTruce, etc, etc. Aren't a thing anymore, I believe.

Click to shrink...

They are still, but because the combat traits were removed it's incredibly hard to get Negative traits right now

 

[Thorjl]

Learn how to use them and you'll like them. You drop health way too quickly for there to not be potions.

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Well obviously. Rework damage. Chugging or showering with an inventory full of health pots is is still ridiculous.

 

[Zacatero]

Potions are a key aspect of Minecraft PVP @Thorjl they arent going anywhere.

 

[Thorjl]

Have you ever PvP'd properly before? You need potions to actually fight and survive, and it's a minecraft, a block game. I don't want to have to use strategy and coordination to kill mobs.

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I'm a builder. I can make things with these blocks you wouldn't believe

I do fight (or try) but it's not my focus.

Regardless. Nobody can physically consume that much liquid!

But that's not the point. This is a MassiveMobs thread not a pvp rebalance thread.

The mobs have simple AI. You can't mow through them anymore, sure. But they're still managable with a little effort.

 

[Thorjl]

Potions are a key aspect of Minecraft PVP @Thorjl they arent going anywhere.

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Don't want to get rid if them. A decent cooldown would be nice... meh. Back to building.