10% decrease of health will do literally nothing. I used to be able to two shot all zombies with my fists now I hit them and it doesn't do jack shit. A 10% decrease will on paper maybe seem great, but 100health down to 90 only means I have to hit the mob maybe a few times less. Still takes me 45seconds to kill a mob instead of like 2.
Massivemobs is very intentionally closed source, and I sincerely doubt Cayorion would be willing to make it open-source, especially considering how few people could actually read the code any get anything out of it anyways.
I'm not sure if you actually read the post you quoted, but the suggestion I made was that Vanilla Mobs are too weak to be relevant with how easy God armor is to get. The numbers are plenty debatable. Would 50% do it? 75%? Maybe 75% health and 25% less damage? All you are doing here is refusing to be constructive. Instead of just whining for the complete removal and nothing else will satisfy you, consider that others like the plugin and brainstorm what would make it acceptable to you? Okay. I can read Java source code and would be more than willing to spend my time if it meant not just watching another beloved part of my home server get whined out of existence. If the whole plugin is just going to get deprecated and removed, why not open it up? That's rhetorical, you can't possibly answer that.
I know you don't agree with us, but look at it from our perspective. There are countless other servers we could PvP on, but we stay on massive because of the community we've made here. Massivemobs make looting, travelling, and especially PvPing an absolute nightmare. On top of the damage from players to mobs being reduced, the lag from the server (which a whole lot of us think is still partially down to mobs, since a whole lot of the lag is still there even after all the supposed fixes) means the added effects (poison, wither) last even longer than they should, slowing movement and meaning PvP is just less fun. I know, they make the sever unique, and they offer a challenge which isn't shown in another server, but in practical actuality, they just don't work. Large, frequent events would be far more enjoyable and practical, offering people a safer environment to PvE within whilst maintaining what the majority of the players sticking to the survival worlds want: the removal of a plugin which has been the subject of, perhaps, the most contention between players and staff on the server for the best part of a year or so.
Harder to get materials for potions? Good. I think potion spamming is really what's wrong with combat. Completely unrealistic. You can still farm mobs in a group with some strategy and coordination. Been enjoying the new challenge.
Have you ever PvP'd properly before? You need potions to actually fight and survive, and it's a minecraft, a block game. I don't want to have to use strategy and coordination to kill mobs.
Minecraft is a block game if you are in creative mode. If you are in any other mode its a survival and strategy game
You run and jump on blocks either you try to survive or build, pvp or pve............................................................
With combat traits removed those could easily be added... but on the flipside since combat traits were removed its harder to get non-direct inhibiting negative traits.
Learn how to use them and you'll like them. You drop health way too quickly for there to not be potions.
No one wants to spend all their trait points just to put up with Massive Mobs. Speed 2, feedalways are essential to survival right now since most people use them. If I go raid with every single truce on I'm going to have no survivability against the actual players that I went there to fight
No im agreeing with you. I'm saying that the current choices for negative traits directly effect your movement and health and hunger. Like Slowness, Starve[Effect], or Harm[Effect]... so its not worth it for those traits anymore to have the truce[mob] traits
Let's remain constructive. FACT: MassiveMobs does not create the excessive lag on the server. "but we the PVP'ers think, because!-" No. Stop. You don't know what you're talking about. The server latency is influenced by a whole host of factors which frequently get investigated / patched up by Cayorion on the fly. MassiveMobs produces less server latency than vanilla mobs because of changed spawning algorithms and mob pathfinding. If you find yourself a PVP'er and you have never coded any plugins, looked at a server console or dealt with networking, then you have no clue what you're talking about and any assumption you make on the source of lag is invalid, no matter the circumstantial evidence that may support your claim. Evidence versus Instance. Deal only in facts. FACT: the VAST majority of the lag is caused by Hoppers. This is both a combination of an internal issue (from what I've understood from tech) within the server framework spigot that we run (thus unavoidable) and Cayorion has done everything he could to do bug reports / talk to devs. Aside from that we have to contend with Mojang's shitty netcode when it comes to their own network features, plugin devs are constantly working to optimize the sourcecode, but this is often a losing battle. Simple solution? Disable hoppers. Problem with that? Pvp'ers complain we are making PVP harder because they have to manually brew/store items in a chest instead of just tossing everything down a massive hopper sorter. Keep hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about lag and start attacking every other plugin they don't like. Remove hoppers, Pvp'ers complain about making their lives harder. It's a viscious cycle. There is no obvious solution to this, if there was one we would have already applied it. Staff frequently scour worlds to delete hopper contraptions to keep TPS up. Any hopper combination is viable to cause TPS drops, they don't even have to be active, they just need to have things in them and be hooked up to a chest and things go south from there. Back to the subject at hand. MassiveMobs is an extremely powerful and well coded plugin, that means to say, the plugin is not broken in any way. It is a framework with features that enables us to design custom mobs. Any of the mobs you meet in-game are specifically made by staff, none of them come pre-shipped. All their health, resistances, weapons and armor are defined by us as well as the drops. Basically, in theory we could throw all custom mobs out and put vanilla mobs in there and it would work the same but the server would suffer less latency issues than with Vanilla mobs, but we choose not to obviously because that will alter our server identity. We don't want to be just any other factions server. If you have a problem with MassiveMobs, I would suggest funneling the issues down to a clearer bullet point list as such: Mobs have unstackable drops which makes farming them difficult/slow. Mobs have rediculous high health geared towards god gear making them difficult to kill for low/mid range players. There is no staggering of level difficulty. Any mob difficulty spawns basically anywhere. These are just to name a few. If you as a player can produce a clearer list of the exact problem instead of saying "plugin's broken, remove it", we are able to consider changes. Addrion makes most of the mobs for new releases and for quests and he is certainly also able to modify their values. A simple solution to the unstackable drop issue for example is to remove all non-lore or non-valuable items and remove the lore names so they become stackable for those non-lore items. But in order for us to be critically able to consider these changes, what is exactly identified as the issue of MassiveMobs needs to be more clear instead of a flat denunciation of the plugin on meritless arguments like "it causes lag". Players/Hoppers/Anti Cheating Plugins cause lag too and we're not removing those from the server either. Anything in existence causes lag, but MassiveMobs is very low on that scale of lag causing identifiers.
My name is Chappers and i work at McDonalds This is my dog murphy i have to work the street corner to pay for food for him
Fix these two and it would be a lot better already. Personally I'd prefer to mostly have common mobs, because they're a lot easier to darkroom, and then have the higher tiered mobs spawn a little more frequently; phase out the blue and green a bit, they're really more annoying than anything else. Also removing, or at least reducing, the debuffs which mobs give on hits would fix a lot of the problems. I personally dislike darkrooming with massivemobs largely because it means fighting while constantly being withered, poisoned, and slowed.
You got hung up on something I put in parentheses which wasn't included within the parent post. However, I'm going to ignore that and comment on the rest of your post. We, as a server, didn't ask for custom mobs, and these mobs haven't improved the server experience for those who spend their time in the survival worlds. We did not just state that the plugin is broken, if you actually took the time to read the post, you'd know we put the points into actual, coherent sentences within each post. But if you want a list of them, here: They spawn too frequently, causing FPS lag clientside and swarming even completely god armoured players in seconds The damage they deal in said swarms is completely too high The damage we deal to each mob, especially green and above, is absurdly low, with it taking even a few hits just to kill the standard massivemobs Their custom drops mean that it's harder to get viable materials for potions, and while PvPing, each player's inventory gets clogged with random, useless drops, oftentimes leading to deaths and not being able to pick up weapons from kills Upon dealing less damage and them dealing more to you, it's harder to darkroom and grind stats, leading to there being less new PvPers, effectively halting the continuation of PvPers (The last large group of people to join were Wolves, and that was a year ago now) The lag on the server (which is not caused by the high numbers of mobs continuously spawning) means that the effects from cave spiders (which do not spawn naturally without massivemobs) and wither skeletons (read previous parentheses) last far longer than they are intended to, adding to the already high damage output from mobs I know, this is a plugin which the server takes great pride in, but the sheer number of people that agree with the post and the amount of times this argument has been brought to light should warrant some form of investigation into why there are grievances within the community. (All information obtained in these points was taken from the parent post of this thread by @jquaile and the post slightly further down by myself, which all could have been obtained simply by reading the posts we wrote)
Yeah the first few ranks of massivemobs are useless. They're only really fun/rewarding from Yellow upwards, their spawn rate is nice too.
Keep in mind, you speak for yourself, not the server. You do not speak for 1400 daily active unique players nor the players who were actively excited when MassiveMobs was first released/announced. You speak out of consent by your friends/associates, and just because this comparatively small group of people keeps bringing up the same thing doesn't mean the issue becomes more valid. Keep your arguments representative instead of assigning greater value to them without basis. You are not any more "the server" than I am, but ultimately in order for changes to take place they need to be supported by valid argumentation with stable logic rested in fact, not sentiment and emotion. On MassiveCraft the loud few will never be able to overrule the silent many, that is why we do polls every now and then in various segments in the community. I cannot arbitrarily change something because I feel like it. Even staff are limited to the consensus of research powered alternatives. Regardless. Your bullet points are taken into account. Here's what I can promise to this particular matter: I will bring the matter up to the Direction Staff next meeting. I do not have any personal hand in mob creation so this will mostly be Addrion's call given he has made most of the mobs. Regardless of whether he agrees on the difficulty changes of the mobs, I am going to very strongly argue in favor of dropping the renamed/custom lore common items that have no intricate market value so that the only loot pieces that do not stack are actual lore items with value. I will consider making my next map release an experimental vanilla mobs only map. I can't make any guarantees on this as I haven't even started making a new map yet, but when the claim limit discussion is finished up to a satisfactory degree on my end, then I commence production. The point of a Feature & idea discussion thread always remains to constructively debate the merit of features or ideas with sound arguments. That means not greenhouse opposing views as invalid or denouncing them with simple shit answers. If you just want to scream an opinion out in public and get a bunch of people to agree to it you might as well just send me a forum PM with a list of names of the people who agree with your idea instead of pretending it's an actual discussion. (the above statement was more a broad statement for this thread, not so much a reply directly to you)
Petitions are always welcome as long as they are actual petitions sent to staff instead of just threads where OP says "look at how many people support me" (when they are actually just 20 out of 1400 players) "Implement this now or we expose you for the dictatorial staff you are!". The idea with petitions though is that they should be supported by facts and arguments, not just "do this pls because it'd be interesting".
Standard of behavior should not disallow someone from having an opinion. That way you enter a slippery slope of arbitrarily tossing an entire population aside conveniently because they disagree with your point of view. In order for discussions to remain constructive, everyone needs to have a chance to have a say in the matter and their words should be evaluated with equal weight.
@MonMarty Why not go back to having some MassiveMobs in some world and none in others. Such as when only Fender and Daedroc had massive mobs but Ithania NC and other worlds didnt. TBH I would be fine with that change since the player gets to choose if they want to fight massive mobs or normal mobs
I uh, agree with the fact that MassiveMobs are a little too strong, Buuut. You have to at least agree, that a lot of thought was put into the Plugin, and it is actually, very well made, but, it'll take quite a long time to change things, considering that a mod can't just go 'Oop, change this', it has to be a selective decision. But, I'm no PvP-er myself, I don't go much in the Survival worlds, if only to store things/grab things, but, I can see how that MassiveMobs could be a problem, but, I mean, they're still a very good addition, despite being a tad annoying. I'd say the change is needed, buuut, not Immediately, it can be put on halt until all the current issues are solved, like bugs/Limit Claims, all of that. But, That's just my Opinion on the matter, It's a nice plugin, but, needs a little bit of tweaking. And the Lore Item's are quite nice (Even if they aren't worth anything), but, probably not useful for a PvP-er, unfortunately.
I think the massivemobs are a bit too strong but if you really can't put up with it there are undeadtruce and other traits that will obliterate these problems.
Though in the beginning of the game, it is literally running for resources and hiding and tp-ing away.
They are still, but because the combat traits were removed it's incredibly hard to get Negative traits right now
Well obviously. Rework damage. Chugging or showering with an inventory full of health pots is is still ridiculous.
I'm a builder. I can make things with these blocks you wouldn't believe I do fight (or try) but it's not my focus. Regardless. Nobody can physically consume that much liquid! But that's not the point. This is a MassiveMobs thread not a pvp rebalance thread. The mobs have simple AI. You can't mow through them anymore, sure. But they're still managable with a little effort.
