Archived Enable Pvp Active While On Enemy Claims

[Mafrorific]

I propose that, if technically possible, the PvP Active flag be set once a player enters an enemy claim and remains set until they enter a chunk that is not claimed by an enemy, at which point the normal cooldown would begin.

The main reason for this suggestion is that right now the rules lead to dumbed down PvP with little strategy. For example, traps and certain stratagems are nearly worthless, as death is merely the slightest inconvenience for the raider. That one who is so killed simply respawns, heads through the portal they have set at their target, and is once again harassing their target with impunity within a minute or two.

The current rules also lead to ridiculous situations.

For example, bands of raiders can exploit the PvP Active flag by simply having certain members not attack. These members can distract their targets and soak up damage, while risking nothing. If they die, at worst they have a slim chance of their head dropping...which many players seem not to care about.

Another example is that defenders will stop trying to kill PvP Inactive raiders, knowing it is meaningless. Instead, smart defenders focus on breaking the raider's armor...the one thing that might actually slow down future raids. This can entail defenders using their own health potions on the raiders to keep them alive in order to maximize damage to the armor they are wearing. Inevitably the raider figures out what is happening and then actually removes their armor to protect it...at which point we have nekked raiders running amok (I've already seen this scenario play out on multiple occasions).

As a final example, a PvP Inactive raider can harass even overwhelming defenses with impunity. A single raider can harass a defender that has superior numbers and equipment, knowing no harm can come to them if they don't attack. However, the defenders can't just ignore the PvP Inactive raider because he might kill livestock and pets (seen this), pick up broken blocks and items, find a bed to sleep in (seen this to), or even find a lone defender and try and pick them off. And, of course, local chat will be filled with jeers and taunting all the while.

Lastly, I think enabling the PvP Active flag upon entering enemy territory is more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. It is clearly meant to place risk on those who choose to go on the offensive. Entering enemy territory, whether to spy, harass, or overrun, should be a daring act! It is clearly an offensive action and a real sense of risk should accompany it.

By implementing this suggestion, raids will become more exciting, dangerous, and strategic! Clever defenses, so common in medieval history and fantasy, will also carry more meaning.

Thanks for considering this suggestion!

 

[Zacatero]

I didn't say that's how MassiveCraft advertised itself. What I'm saying is that I dislike people that want all the safety of Regalia while being in the survival "PVP ENABLED" worlds.

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I know people who aren't roleplayers, or pvpers. Its not one or the other. What about those people who just want to have a town. or have a house. and lose all the stuff in their inventory just because some random pvper comes and kills them out of nowhere. I understand what u mean about roleplayers having regalia. Its a beautiful town but.. if you don't roleplay it really does nothing for you.

 

[AgentLew]

I know people who aren't roleplayers, or pvpers. Its not one or the other. What about those people who just want to have a town. or have a house. and lose all the stuff in their inventory just because some random pvper comes and kills them out of nowhere. I understand what u mean about roleplayers having regalia. Its a beautiful town but.. if you don't roleplay it really does nothing for you.

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The faction worlds are known to be dangerous, and even a PvE focused player should know the dangers, even if said dangers are changed to a more balanced state. Heck, if they die to someone else and lose their stuff, they should probably take the death as a lesson learned and build a safer and more secure home/town(sounds a bit harsh, but it isn't the harshest thing that could happen). Plus... "/dynmap hide" is a well known command, if they really don't want to be targeted they should probably stay off the dynmap or just build a ton of traps(which is basically repellent for a majority of PvPers of this server). The fact is, that currently this type of PvE focused player, who doesn't engage in any sort of PvP, is pretty much escaping from any sort of repercussion from dying much like the PvPers who aim to be PvP inactive when they are engaged within a fight that they start to lose. Death to a player needs to have a repercussion, lest a PvP death will continue to mean nothing. Yes, this change of PvP inactive will be a rather drastic change if and when it's implemented, players will adapt to it like they always have to a new feature or change.

 

[Zacatero]

The faction worlds are known to be dangerous, and even a PvE focused player should know the dangers, even if said dangers are changed to a more balanced state. Heck, if they die to someone else and lose their stuff, they should probably take the death as a lesson learned and build a safer and more secure home/town(sounds a bit harsh, but it isn't the harshest thing that could happen). Plus... "/dynmap hide" is a well known command, if they really don't want to be targeted they should probably stay off the dynmap or just build a ton of traps(which is basically repellent for a majority of PvPers of this server). The fact is, that currently this type of PvE focused player, who doesn't engage in any sort of PvP, is pretty much escaping from any sort of repercussion from dying much like the PvPers who aim to be PvP inactive when they are engaged within a fight that they start to lose. Death to a player needs to have a repercussion, lest a PvP death will continue to mean nothing. Yes, this change of PvP inactive will be a rather drastic change if and when it's implemented, players will adapt to it like they always have to a new feature or change.

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Let me see if I understand. This will teach players to build underground right? So this will effectively remove all reason to build above ground.

 

[BenRekt]

Let me see if I understand. This will teach players to build underground right? So this will effectively remove all reason to build above ground.

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It will teach players to actually use the surrender feature on this server. This is a much needed change as far as I am concerned.

 

[Zacatero]

It will teach players to actually use the surrender feature on this server. This is a much needed change as far as I am concerned.

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Why pay all of that money to all of the big factions that are going to raid you.. When you can keep that money and build underground!! Never go outside and experience the beautiful world that have been constructed for the players. Might as well stop donating because you can't use that keep inventory feature. Ben I'm trying to think of everybody here. I don't like this solution that @Cythyan said because although it benefits the PVP players... It hinders all other players. How come the only solution we can come up with is one that hurts another players gameplay?

 

[BenRekt]

Why pay all of that money to all of the big factions that are going to raid you.. When you can keep that money and build underground!! Never go outside and experience the beautiful world that have been constructed for the players. Might as well stop donating because you can't use that keep inventory feature. Ben I'm trying to think of everybody here. I don't like this solution that @Cythyan said because although it benefits the PVP players... It hinders all other players. How come the only solution we can come up with is one that hurts another players gameplay?

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People will either defend themselves, surrender or decide to build underground, which is the way it should be. When you are at war with somebody it shouldn't be that you can just go about your business without any risk whatsoever, at least that's the way I see it.

Although I think you have valid points, I think to pros outweigh the cons here, especially from a PvP perspective.

 

[Zacatero]

People will either defend themselves, surrender or decide to build underground, which is the way it should be. When you are at war with somebody it shouldn't be that you can just go about your business without any risk whatsoever, at least that's the way I see it.

Although I think you have valid points, I think to pros outweigh the cons here, especially from a PvP perspective.

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I agree with this. But you don't HAVE to be at war for this to happen according to Cythyan's post. It can happen for any reason by anybody who is enemied (or neutral if your not on your territory)

Also I would like to point out again... There will most likely be a drop in donations, unless a new premium feature comes to replace this one.

 

[Alj23]

I agree with this. But you don't HAVE to be at war for this to happen according to Cythyan's post. It can happen for any reason by anybody who is enemied (or neutral if your not on your territory)

Also I would like to point out again... There will most likely be a drop in donations, unless a new premium feature comes to replace this one.

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You could also argue that since PVP will become more enjoyable and more rewarding, people will donate to become premium at an increased rate to benefit from the other inherit advantages premiums gives for PVP.

But ya know, that's just a matter of perspective man.

 

[Zacatero]

You could also argue that since PVP will become more enjoyable and more rewarding, people will donate to become premium at an increased rate to benefit from the other inherit advantages premiums gives for PVP.

But ya know, that's just a matter of perspective man.

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That may be true but not everybody enjoys PVP. The survival worlds aren't just for PVPers.

 

[Jackmo_Jones]

Welp, there goes my donations. :/

 

[Legles101]

You know there's this funny little thing people used to use all the time in the REAL world to defend themselves, something maybe called a WALL. Also building walls are a lot easier than having to mine out giant areas for underground cities. This is all coming from someone who is a premium and doesn't partake in PvP very much if not at all. Really I think the PvP aspect has been a little mediocre.

 

[Legles101]

I mean the servers PvP aspect not premiums*

 

[Zacatero]

You know there's this funny little thing people used to use all the time in the REAL world to defend themselves, something maybe called a WALL. Also building walls are a lot easier than having to mine out giant areas for underground cities. This is all coming from someone who is a premium and doesn't partake in PvP very much if not at all. Really I think the PvP aspect has been a little mediocre.

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I don't know how clearly I need to say this.. so I'm going to raise the font, underline, and bold it..

THIS IS NOT THE REAL WORLD

this world is way different. In the real world, when you are in a war, they don't travel to your city EACH TIME.. Usually people are always there. In the real world, you don't carry upwards of 20 items at a time and you aren't killed intentionally to retrieve those items. In the REAL world, you don't respawn after death.

Its not reasonable to compare this new plan to how real world works when practically every other aspect of this system is different.

 

[Legles101]

Sorry if I came off as a little offensive in my last post. I would like to confirm what I assume I understand about this. We are trying to discuss whether or not premiums should lose their ability to keep inventory items (and armor?) upon dying to another player correct?

If so I'll say this, if someone is able to kill someone else I think they deserve to get their items. Altogether this would help to encourage a more PvP oriented factions world. Which could do multiple things like so : 1. Make people build walls or go underground 2. Make people join up with more powerful factions to protect (which would not only help encourage "empires" but also add more meaning to them). 3. Make people look into pvp more in order to defend themselves. 4. Encourage people who never thought PvPing was worth it before to start PvPing.

All of this combined would add a lot more to wars between factions and I think overall better the PvP aspect of the server. (Even though these things would just be done to a greater extent as they are already going on). Also I don't really like the fact that anyone can just pop up and make a faction, mostly because the server already seems to have an over abundance of them while only few remain significant. as I said before people would be encouraged to obtain protection. Since they need more protection they may not look to making their own faction as much because they won't want to build that protection from the ground up. Instead they will join existing factions where they could already have protection and look into ranking up in them while they do other things besides pvp. Sadly though I don't think this would affect the over abundance of factions being made much if at all. However, I would suppose if the server wanted less factions they would raise the price of them again, similarly to how they used to have it at 2000 or so (even though the price has gone through a lot of changes) or raise the tax per chunk but whether they should do that or not is a whole nother argument.

 

[Celeras]

By being in the faction world, and especially being outside, you agree to the possibility that you can be attacked at any time, and lose your items. Non premiums live with this fear everytime they step out of their house. To exist in the faction world is to accept that one can possibly die. To think otherwise is the basis of the beginnings of an end to PVP as we know it.

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I would say that at least in my opinion, the server would be a lot more fun without premium features, but that realistically, nobody is going to keep donating without them which is just an unfortunate fact of life. I know I have premium right now, but I could live without it.

 

[Zacatero]

That still doesn't explain why you think people have an inability to build walls.

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They are usually ugly for one... But let's just hypothetically say that everybody now builds enderpearl-proof walls (because why build walls if they can be pearled over). Then PVP'ers will complain about that. Its always going to be something wrong with PVP that "ruins" it. Come on. I cant be the only person here thinking two steps ahead.

 

[Legles101]

Well some walls can be ugly, some can be good looking, but I guess they would still keep you from seeing a city from the outside. Now, if people have enough allies around or if they have a big faction raiders would have to come in bigger groups in order to defeat the defense of that faction or group of factions. Meaning people may not need walls as long as their members (or allies members) are a good enough defense for them. This kind of goes back to why I think this would encourage empires/ few bigger factions instead of lots of little factions (even though there are already some big factions)

Basically the entirety of PvP is just one big coin, on one side people want to raid and will complain if they can't, on the other people don't want to get raided and will complain if they do so there is no way to completely satisfy everyone. However, you could currently say that the server is satisfying the non- raiders too much and the raiders too little, removing the ability to keep items would help balance it out I suppose. I mean, people can already make walls so people just building more walls would be the raiders problem not the server's problem (since you can build walls on any server as long as you can build) while allowing you to keep items is the server's "problem" as it is only on this server. Also they do allow people to teleport to allies homes, enemy them, and then raid them so that would be one way to get past walls for any raiders.

As for what Alj23 said I would agree the server would probably be more fun without premium for multiple reasons. However, sadly that is out of the question just like turning on TNT explosions to blast mine / destroy walls would be.