Archived Enable Pvp Active While On Enemy Claims

[Mafrorific]

I propose that, if technically possible, the PvP Active flag be set once a player enters an enemy claim and remains set until they enter a chunk that is not claimed by an enemy, at which point the normal cooldown would begin.

The main reason for this suggestion is that right now the rules lead to dumbed down PvP with little strategy. For example, traps and certain stratagems are nearly worthless, as death is merely the slightest inconvenience for the raider. That one who is so killed simply respawns, heads through the portal they have set at their target, and is once again harassing their target with impunity within a minute or two.

The current rules also lead to ridiculous situations.

For example, bands of raiders can exploit the PvP Active flag by simply having certain members not attack. These members can distract their targets and soak up damage, while risking nothing. If they die, at worst they have a slim chance of their head dropping...which many players seem not to care about.

Another example is that defenders will stop trying to kill PvP Inactive raiders, knowing it is meaningless. Instead, smart defenders focus on breaking the raider's armor...the one thing that might actually slow down future raids. This can entail defenders using their own health potions on the raiders to keep them alive in order to maximize damage to the armor they are wearing. Inevitably the raider figures out what is happening and then actually removes their armor to protect it...at which point we have nekked raiders running amok (I've already seen this scenario play out on multiple occasions).

As a final example, a PvP Inactive raider can harass even overwhelming defenses with impunity. A single raider can harass a defender that has superior numbers and equipment, knowing no harm can come to them if they don't attack. However, the defenders can't just ignore the PvP Inactive raider because he might kill livestock and pets (seen this), pick up broken blocks and items, find a bed to sleep in (seen this to), or even find a lone defender and try and pick them off. And, of course, local chat will be filled with jeers and taunting all the while.

Lastly, I think enabling the PvP Active flag upon entering enemy territory is more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. It is clearly meant to place risk on those who choose to go on the offensive. Entering enemy territory, whether to spy, harass, or overrun, should be a daring act! It is clearly an offensive action and a real sense of risk should accompany it.

By implementing this suggestion, raids will become more exciting, dangerous, and strategic! Clever defenses, so common in medieval history and fantasy, will also carry more meaning.

Thanks for considering this suggestion!

 

[65jes89]

Wow...just...wow.

This is yet another example of exactly why this change is needed. If you pick a fight that you can't win inside an area that you can't escape, then there should be some consequence when you lose. Right now there is none. That's the whole point.

Implement this rule and PvPers will have to actually use their brains alongside their buttons. Scary, huh?

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...Offending people isn't going to help your case. Honestly, I quite agree with heart. If you want an unraidable base, there should be some kind of disadvantage to it as well.. ie being underground or such. It's already almost impossible to get a decently fair fight on this server. Hell, every time we fight Raptum/Deld, as soon as we start winning, a dozen more of them show up. Not that we're not guilty of doing the same thing to them. Honestly if you're half decent at pvp it's easy enough to get weapon drops. I'd personally guess that I get 75-90% of the weapons from my kills. Most deaths on massive aren't usually from running out of pots, people generally quick drop well before them, which is another issue entirely and will not be fixed by enabling pvp active in enemy claims.

That being said, I would not have a problem with removing the pacifist system entirely, including god armor, so long as the territory bonus was finally completely removed. That would probably also be better for the economy tbh.

 

[HeartAched]

...Offending people isn't going to help your case. Honestly, I quite agree with heart. If you want an unraidable base, there should be some kind of disadvantage to it as well.. ie being underground or such. It's already almost impossible to get a decently fair fight on this server. Hell, every time we fight Raptum/Deld, as soon as we start winning, a dozen more of them show up. Not that we're not guilty of doing the same thing to them. Honestly if you're half decent at pvp it's easy enough to get weapon drops. I'd personally guess that I get 75-90% of the weapons from my kills. Most deaths on massive aren't usually from running out of pots, people generally quick drop well before them, which is another issue entirely and will not be fixed by enabling pvp active in enemy claims.

That being said, I would not have a problem with removing the pacifist system entirely, including god armor, so long as the territory bonus was finally completely removed. That would probably also be better for the economy tbh.

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Thanks Jes, heh. Massive would not remove the pacifist system, as it is a premium benefit and is quite why many people buy premium.

 

[Mecharic]

Ok so I see two sides of this argument. There's the "They'll just hide behind traps." side and the "They'll actually fight because they can get stuff out of it now." side. I think both sides are missing a pretty major point here: People who don't PvP probably won't bother making traps at their bases due to the ease with which they can simply hide from and ignore raiders. PvPers will already head out to defend their base most of the time, while not-PvPers have no incentive to trap people anyway. Why put effort into making a complex trap when simply closing a door will be just as effective at keeping you alive?

That said, I support this idea. If you're going to charge into an enemy faction and ruin their day they should be able to get something back from it. I do see how it could be abused by tricksy allied factions, but I doubt any faction that did so would keep many allies. Trust is hard to build, and once it's lost it's very hard to regain - so a faction backstabbing an ally like that will probably never be able to recover their reputation and would not be trusted by allies, losing them and losing any potential help an ally could give during raids or with construction. It's not worth it for a one-time bit of loot that most serious PvPers could replace in about 2 hours, if that.

 

[Zacatero]

If you pick a fight that you can't win inside an area that you can't escape, then there should be some consequence when you lose. Right now there is none.

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Although this makes perfect sense... remember that a lot of people donated for premium.. to gain this ability.. to have less of a consequence when starting a fight on enemy territory.

 

[Mecharic]

Although this makes perfect sense... remember that a lot of people donated for premium.. to gain this ability.. to have less of a consequence when starting a fight on enemy territory.

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True. Which means that this boils down to "do you want to see if PvP can be increased by this or do you want to keep your OP perks?" as a debate.

Why not a trial run to see if it actually causes an increase in PvP activity? If it doesn't remove it.

 

[Zacatero]

True. Which means that this boils down to "do you want to see if PvP can be increased by this or do you want to keep your OP perks?" as a debate.

Why not a trial run to see if it actually causes an increase in PvP activity? If it doesn't remove it.

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Well remember it's tricky. I don't know the Tech side of stuff but I do know that the no inventory drop is hooked to the premium and not to the faction plugin, which dictates the land relation.

 

[65jes89]

True. Which means that this boils down to "do you want to see if PvP can be increased by this or do you want to keep your OP perks?" as a debate.

Why not a trial run to see if it actually causes an increase in PvP activity? If it doesn't remove it.

Click to shrink...

It's not going to increase pvp... It's just going to make people want to raid even less. Defenders already have so many advantages over the attackers it's ridiculous. I mean, they can run inside at any time, have the 10% defense bonus, can repot and get back to the fight much faster, etc. This won't increase PvP anymore; rpers aren't going to suddenly go "Hey! If I kill someone they're going to drop regardless! I should go out and fight!" This is because pvpers are generally significantly better at pvp than rpers, and most rpers realize that. This will really only affect factions who already pvp actively, which, in all honesty, is just SunKiss, Deldrimor, raptum, and one or two other smaller factions. And in all honesty, none of us want to see traps buffed, or for the defenders to get another advantage.

This also ignores the fact that the only faction that really has walls to keep people inside their land is afrovia. The rest of us don't really want huge, ugly walls around our faction (no offense), because we worked extremely hard to make our factions look good. Most factions now a days don't have giant ass cobble walls around their bases like many used to have, and I think the majority of us can agree that that's an improvement.

Now, if pacifist was removed completely, that would be another story. I think the biggest argument at this point against removing pacifist is that it's a major premium feature. But honestly, I don't think it would drastically reduce the number of premium purchases. I mean think about it. Sure, people might drop some of their rp items or whatever, but honestly hardly anyone raids roleplay factions anymore in the first place... I think the last time I raided a roleplay faction was... Nevermind, I actually can't remember. Probably Garrod, 3 or 4 months ago. However, there's still all the other buffs, like traits (those alone still make pvp almost completely inaccessible to non-premiums), /backpack, /workbench, etc. Honestly, I don't know how'd I live without those.

So, no, I don't think it boils down to "do you want to see if PvP can be increased by this or do you want to keep your OP perks?" I think it comes down to more along the lines of "do you want to see PvP decreased and made to rely almost entirely on traps, or do you want to"... actually nevermind, that part really doesn't even make sense to me.

 

[Mecharic]

@65jes89 - I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who would fall for traps that aren't well designed enough to deserve results while also underestimating the number of people who don't bother defending because "it won't change anything".

 

[65jes89]

@65jes89 - I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who would fall for traps that aren't well designed enough to deserve results while also underestimating the number of people who don't bother defending because "it won't change anything".

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Traps- Honestly it doesn't need to be well designed... Huge ass fall trap + kb 5 hoe, you're screwed. It would also add to the already "invincibility" of someone in a string trap, as if you jump into a string trap you're pretty much going to die. Now, the way it currently is, it is possible to get in, get a quick drop on someone, and cross your fingers and hope you get pacifist before being 5v1'd. However, if you know you're going to drop if you die, nobody in their right mind would go into a string trap, even if you're guaranteed to get a kill. Ie, if a defender is on one pot, just drop right into a string trap, and all of the sudden they're completely safe. At least with doors and such, it's possible to get inside with the defender, drop them, and then hide somewhere inside.

As for your second point, I don't think I really am. I mean honestly, hardly anyone engages in pvp of any serious kind other than SunKiss, Raptum, Deldrimor, and a few other smaller factions who support the bigger ones. Hell, look at the war declarations forum. Almost all of them involve a pvp faction. Even the ones who don't are essentially just proxy wars between the larger factions in the majority of cases. I mean think about it. If I decided to get on, as the leader of SunKiss, and call in 5 or 6 of my premium pvpers to attack you, I sincerely doubt you would attempt to fight me yourself. Unless you brought in either Raptum or Deldrimor, we would pretty much stomp on anyone you could throw at us with little to no effort. I fail to see how, therefor, anything would change by enabling pacifist in enemy territory, other than encouraging you to just fight with traps. However, if say, I decided to get on with 5 or 6 of my premium pvpers and attacked Deldrimor, for example, it would most likely be skewed in deldrimor's favor, assuming even numbers. But, adding SunKiss automatically dropping their items upon death immediately gives a huge disadvantage to Deldrimor, and makes me want to raid them quite a bit less. Of course, the same would go to Deldrimor, and pvp will end up going back to the arguments we used to have over whose turn it is to raid.

 

[onearmsquid]

Wow...just...wow.

This is yet another example of exactly why this change is needed. If you pick a fight that you can't win inside an area that you can't escape, then there should be some consequence when you lose. Right now there is none. That's the whole point.

Implement this rule and PvPers will have to actually use their brains alongside their buttons. Scary, huh?

Click to shrink...

What you mean to say is this will benefit your faction as you hide behind traps to the point where no one wishes to raid. Implementing this will kill PvP and not improve it. If you wish to lose even more players for this server then do this exact thing you wish to do.

 

[Knyxo]

This idea benefits those that hide behind traps and nothing more. If you don't want to fight and would rather stay inside because PvP isn't your thing, that's fine. People being able to get loot from trap kills basically rewards this though. Is that fair, that you didn't put any effort into beating somebody in an even remotely fair fight, yet still got their stuff?

And yes, this would be put to good use by some of the more pacifist factions, and they would build traps to capitalize on this if it were implemented, and raiding would be a huge trap-fest a lot of the time. Don't believe me? Let's go back to a year and a half ago, when the EULA rule from Mojang was first introduced. Massivecraft changed it's pacifist system among many other things in order to comply with the anti-Pay to win basis that the rule was meant to enforce on servers. The new system was similar to this suggestion, only instead of dropping gear because you were on enemy land, you'd drop because you either hit somebody, or got hit BY somebody within 30 seconds before death(Armor would not drop no matter what, and the system was the same for both prems and non-prems). Coincidentally or not, during this time, portal traps became very popular, not yet made illegal for months to come.

Basically, factions that would appear to be simply towns, not Pvp factions at all, some not even with walls, are suddenly fortresses because if you walk on any stairs or half slab roads, you're immediately teleported into some pit of doom, where some guy with nothing but a weapon is hitting you through some hole until you die. I had even built some on one of my old factions, which was a peaceful faction that almost never got raided! It was OP, practically free kills with loot drops, so why wouldn't I? You can't fight said person back, because he's hiding. You can't outlast him 30 seconds or TP out, because he keeps making you Pvp active. You lose all your gear because you stepped in a bad spot. Essentially, you get boned for going to their base, period. Yeah you can see the particles. Doesn't help much when the traps are everywhere and they're actively trying to bait/knock you into them.

Obviously portal traps are illegal now. The point is, yes, people WILL litter traps literally everywhere around their factions, if it means they get gear from it. Got a raider caught in a string trap? Good for you, enjoy your kill, you might even get a head drop. But that's deserving of a loot drop? Really?

 

[MonMarty]

I think I discussed the merit of this a while back with Thortuna and Gethelp. The general conclusion there was that they agreed with the side who believes this would result in a coward's PVP community where everyone would just try and trap people to kill them.

I'm inherently against banning traps or creating more unnecessary rules for PVP. Take my statement not as an outright rejection, but perhaps a call to continue dialogue. The Game staff are not convinced that allowing PVP active on entering enemy terrain will do anything good for the PVP community. That's to say, address the problems that are being brought up with counter arguments instead of appealing to sentiment and ad hoc argumentation.

I do think they planned to enable PVP active on being hit as well instead of only while hitting. I don't know if this has been enabled yet, but it was planned either way as a "compromise" mid way.

 

[Zacatero]

I do think they planned to enable PVP active on being hit as well instead of only while hitting. I don't know if this has been enabled yet, but it was planned either way as a "compromise" mid way.

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Is this only on enemy land? So say if im roaming the wilderness outside the Teled Methen spawn... i don't lose my stuff just because somebody came and killed me.

 

[MokeDuck]

Is this only on enemy land? So say if im roaming the wilderness outside the Teled Methen spawn... i don't lose my stuff just because somebody came and killed me.

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yepers. if you are in enemy teritory =lose items otherwise everything is normal
i think this is a great idea btw
https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/raiding-defending-1-9-pvp-improvements-and-more.37910/

 

[65jes89]

Is this only on enemy land? So say if im roaming the wilderness outside the Teled Methen spawn... i don't lose my stuff just because somebody came and killed me.

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I believe marty is essentially talking about what it was like during the EULA days, where you go inactive in all pvp situations. Do note that spawn camping of any sort is illegal.

 

[Mafrorific]

I do think they planned to enable PVP active on being hit as well instead of only while hitting. I don't know if this has been enabled yet, but it was planned either way as a "compromise" mid way.

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I think this is a step in the right direction - I like it.

 

[Zacatero]

Do note that spawn camping of any sort is illegal.

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i was more refering to just... being attacked and killed in a time and place where you hadn't provoked them in any way.

 

[BenRekt]

Wow...just...wow.

This is yet another example of exactly why this change is needed. If you pick a fight that you can't win inside an area that you can't escape, then there should be some consequence when you lose. Right now there is none. That's the whole point.

Implement this rule and PvPers will have to actually use their brains alongside their buttons. Scary, huh?

Click to shrink...

PvPers do use their brains.

We just like to use our swords as well instead of relying on traps, although you make some valid points, especially about having consequences for fighting battles you cannot win. I think it would be better to find more of a compromise that rewards kills and discourages traps, but how I do not know.

Why put effort into making a complex trap when simply closing a door will be just as effective at keeping you alive?

Click to shrink...

If this idea is implemented, I can assure you every little RP faction that is full of non-premiums will have string traps up and running within 5 minutes if the proposed changes are made. People aren't going to come out and fight, they are going to come out and try to know you in their trap because it will be the most effective way to force raiders to leave.

Basically what Marty already said.

 

[Mecharic]

If what Mon said is for being on enemy territory only I'm very much in favor. I will defer to actual PvPers when it comes to the likelyhood of people building traps.

 

[Zacatero]

Traps... are fun... but when overused, or used as the sole way of defending. it gets boring. and frustrating.

 

[Winterless]

Wow...just...wow.

This is yet another example of exactly why this change is needed. If you pick a fight that you can't win inside an area that you can't escape, then there should be some consequence when you lose. Right now there is none. That's the whole point.

Implement this rule and PvPers will have to actually use their brains alongside their buttons. Scary, huh?

Click to shrink...

This seems to be a whole lot of cognitive bias and not a whole lot of logic. Cause you know, PvP where half-slab traps give free gear is totally a fair implementation. Seems to me you are always on the defensive and never on the offensive and so you never see the raider's perspective. If you were to raid any faction that use extreme, copious levels of traps, you would know how irritating it is. That, coupled with pacifist false, creates a situation which is more aggravating than entertaining. See where this leads? Just my two cents.

 

[DudesOMinecraft]

I think you are thinking more from being mad that you are not invinceable, Everyone dies. If a person attacks another pvp active is engaged. You are wrong in the sense that pvpers have no strategy. There is lots, i think you would see where we are coming from if you are walking through the desert and you randomly fall into a trap and 50 roleplayers start ganking you. This would also enable a trap where you could not hit someone but they could hit you, and you would lose all of your stuff. If you want peoples items how about you learn to actually pvp and not hide behind your walls. Cheap kills are not a thing if you are fighting a prem, there is always the choice to not pvp, or pvp inactive.

 

[Winterless]

I think you are thinking more from being mad that you are not invinceable, Everyone dies. If a person attacks another pvp active is engaged. You are wrong in the sense that pvpers have no strategy. There is lots, i think you would see where we are coming from if you are walking through the desert and you randomly fall into a trap and 50 roleplayers start ganking you. This would also enable a trap where you could not hit someone but they could hit you, and you would lose all of your stuff. If you want peoples items how about you learn to actually pvp and not hide behind your walls. Cheap kills are not a thing if you are fighting a prem, there is always the choice to not pvp, or pvp inactive.

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My point exactly.

 

[shinbun]

I propose that, if technically possible, the PvP Active flag be set once a player enters an enemy claim and remains set until they enter a chunk that is not claimed by an enemy, at which point the normal cooldown would begin.

The main reason for this suggestion is that right now the rules lead to dumbed down PvP with little strategy. For example, traps and certain stratagems are nearly worthless, as death is merely the slightest inconvenience for the raider. That one who is so killed simply respawns, heads through the portal they have set at their target, and is once again harassing their target with impunity within a minute or two.

The current rules also lead to ridiculous situations.

For example, bands of raiders can exploit the PvP Active flag by simply having certain members not attack. These members can distract their targets and soak up damage, while risking nothing. If they die, at worst they have a slim chance of their head dropping...which many players seem not to care about.

Another example is that defenders will stop trying to kill PvP Inactive raiders, knowing it is meaningless. Instead, smart defenders focus on breaking the raider's armor...the one thing that might actually slow down future raids. This can entail defenders using their own health potions on the raiders to keep them alive in order to maximize damage to the armor they are wearing. Inevitably the raider figures out what is happening and then actually removes their armor to protect it...at which point we have nekked raiders running amok (I've already seen this scenario play out on multiple occasions).

As a final example, a PvP Inactive raider can harass even overwhelming defenses with impunity. A single raider can harass a defender that has superior numbers and equipment, knowing no harm can come to them if they don't attack. However, the defenders can't just ignore the PvP Inactive raider because he might kill livestock and pets (seen this), pick up broken blocks and items, find a bed to sleep in (seen this to), or even find a lone defender and try and pick them off. And, of course, local chat will be filled with jeers and taunting all the while.

Lastly, I think enabling the PvP Active flag upon entering enemy territory is more in keeping with the spirit of the rule. It is clearly meant to place risk on those who choose to go on the offensive. Entering enemy territory, whether to spy, harass, or overrun, should be a daring act! It is clearly an offensive action and a real sense of risk should accompany it.

By implementing this suggestion, raids will become more exciting, dangerous, and strategic! Clever defenses, so common in medieval history and fantasy, will also carry more meaning.

Thanks for considering this suggestion!

Click to shrink...

This is the worst idea I've ever heard. 90% of factions are enemied to wilderness, I don't want to be randomly mining in wilderness with my PvP active enabled maybe hit a hole where someone was mining before me and fall to my death while trying to mine. I feel the main reason the PvP inactive protection exists is for that reason. I didn't donate to the server so that anywhere I went I would lose my inventory, might as well just be non-premium.

What would I be paying for if they took out PvP inactive?

-10% less damage
-An orange name (which is green or red for most as they have /rc h enabled.)
-Keep my armor on death (Basically breaks anyways in raids)
-So basically I'm baying 8dollars a month for 10% less damage if they take PvP inactive away. (which is basically a resistance I pot)

I know you're new to the server and a lot of people admire you, because you stream. But Massivecraft has had many many changes over the years and one thing that's been consistent is PvP inactive, and that's one thing people can count on when they buy premium.

Another thing that makes no sense in this is you say raiders can just walk through a portal and come back without an consequence. I guess you think time isn't a big consequence. TPA used to be on Massivecraft and I believe it was only a 5 second wait time not 10 seconds. So instead of imagining someone dying and being back in 3 min imagine it being 20seconds.

The server has done a lot to slow PvP as it focuses more on RP and other aspects, which is a good thing because if PvP was what it was with Gapples and flying vampires and TPA and trait exploits and races and most importantly rules for PvP, the server as you know it wouldn't exist as people would be being raided all the time and raiding all the time.

 

[Mecharic]

This is the worst idea I've ever heard. 90% of factions are enemied to wilderness, I don't want to be randomly mining in wilderness with my PvP active enabled maybe hit a hole where someone was mining before me and fall to my death while trying to mine. I feel the main reason the PvP inactive protection exists is for that reason. I didn't donate to the server so that anywhere I went I would lose my inventory, might as well just be non-premium.

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Well maybe stop being enemied to wilderness? I mean, it's not like being enemied to wilderness has any effect on it beyond making it possible for wilderness people to attack you on your own territory (which seems like more of a negative than a positive in and of itself).

What would I be paying for if they took out PvP inactive?

-10% less damage
-An orange name (which is green or red for most as they have /rc h enabled.)
-Keep my armor on death (Basically breaks anyways in raids)
-So basically I'm baying 8dollars a month for 10% less damage if they take PvP inactive away. (which is basically a resistance I pot)

Click to shrink...

-/fix
-750r a month
-backpack
-workbench
-extra traits
-extra trait points
-portal making
-increased faction power
-more I'm sure

I know you're new to the server and a lot of people admire you, because you stream. But Massivecraft has had many many changes over the years and one thing that's been consistent is PvP inactive, and that's one thing people can count on when they buy premium.

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HA! I've been here for over 4 years. There have been times when PvP Inactive went away the moment you got hit, and the reason it was removed was because non-pvpers found that properly ridiculous. The point of it is, in my eyes at least, to prevent people who don't want to fight from losing their items. If you go onto an enemies territory you are knowingly putting yourself at risk - asking to fight.

Another thing that makes no sense in this is you say raiders can just walk through a portal and come back without an consequence. I guess you think time isn't a big consequence. TPA used to be on Massivecraft and I believe it was only a 5 second wait time not 10 seconds. So instead of imagining someone dying and being back in 3 min imagine it being 20seconds.

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How is 1-3 minutes a big consequence? You die, you come back with full pots, armor, and weapons. There is no consequence that I can see, unless you seriously consider 1-3 minutes to be equal to losing all of your inventory (of pots & weapons) when you die...

The server has done a lot to slow PvP as it focuses more on RP and other aspects, which is a good thing because if PvP was what it was with Gapples and flying vampires and TPA and trait exploits and races and most importantly rules for PvP, the server as you know it wouldn't exist as people would be being raided all the time and raiding all the time.

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I'm not sure if this is saying the server has done well or poorly, tbh. I think that staff have tried to balance PvP, which has inherent advantages over literally every other type of gameplay, with things like building and roleplay. They've done a good job, I think. Just saying.

Anyway, what do you think of losing pvp inactive if you get hit while in enemy territory? That would force them to kill you themselves, rather than rely entirely on traps.

 

[Arvallon]

Anyway, what do you think of losing pvp inactive if you get hit while in enemy territory? That would force them to kill you themselves, rather than rely entirely on traps.

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I fully support this idea. It's a nice balance between loosing pvp inactive immediatly on entering as with the current way. It still provides a certaint level of risk to entering enemy territory. Aswel as provide safety to some degree for people falling into traps to be able to get away if a player doesnt kill them right away.

I think this will provide a solution to most of the problems we encountered with enabling pvp active upon entering enemy territory.

 

[Mafrorific]

I fully support this idea. It's a nice balance between loosing pvp inactive immediatly on entering as with the current way. It still provides a certaint level of risk to entering enemy territory. Aswel as provide safety to some degree for people falling into traps to be able to get away if a player doesnt kill them right away.

I think this will provide a solution to most of the problems we encountered with enabling pvp active upon entering enemy territory.

Click to shrink...

I also agree with this.

 

[Zacatero]

OK but I think the 30 seconds should be lowered to 5 seconds for being hit on enemy territory. That way it forces someone to actually physically fight instead of just hit you once and then kill you with a trap over the course of 30 seconds.

I think that while attacking on any territory though the time should stay 30 seconds.

 

[Mecharic]

OK but I think the 30 seconds should be lowered to 5 seconds for being hit on enemy territory. That way it forces someone to actually physically fight instead of just hit you once and then kill you with a trap over the course of 30 seconds.

I think that while attacking on any territory though the time should stay 30 seconds.

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So just have it be 5 seconds if attacked, 30 seconds if attacking, and only active when attacked if your in enemy territory? I like that idea

 

[Mafrorific]

So just have it be 5 seconds if attacked, 30 seconds if attacking, and only active when attacked if your in enemy territory? I like that idea

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I like that as well. These are good suggestions.

 

[Kushiban]

And what if you're fighting on enemy territory, and suddenly get 5v1ed? This happens quite often, actually. And running out of pots will mean losing your wep because unless you can run away or get out of your enemies walls before dying, you can't pacifist once you're out of pots. This will also means massive one way walls will ilkely become a thing- walls with blocks stacked on one side so you can pearl in, but it's highe ron the inside so you can't pearl out. Not to mention how everynoe and their brother will have redstone traps... yes, the roleplay factions will put up traps, even if they won't fight. It will be too dangerous to fight anyone that isin't specifically looking for a fight, because everyone else will have ridiculous amounts of redstone traps. Smother traps and pitfall traps outside every other door, activated from the inside to be seamless. Pitfall lava traps, piston traps that enclose once a raider walks into a hallway (could also be activated manually, so there's no telltale string or pressure plate), etc etc etc. If a faction had one guy good at redstone, that faction will never be raided again because to go there is certainly to lose a god wep and get no kills. Redstone traps, whether good as those or just pressure platesand string literally everywhere, will be ridiculously common because for once they'll be completely effective. Not only will you get rid of the raider for 5 minutes while they respawn- they'll lose their god wep and might not even come back!

This will only further limit pvp to the few pvp factions that actually fight as of late, Deldrimor, the remainders of Raptum, and Sunkiss, because theyy'll be the only ones that won't have redstone traps everywhere. The only other factions that don't have constant redstone traps would be very new noob factions that aren't worth raiding anyway.

Also, this would give the defenders a ridiculous defensive bonus, because they can pacifist but the attackers can't. Of the three factions that would still be fighting, none of them will want to raid eachother because of the ridiculous defensive bonus.


Edit: As far as the permenant PVP active idea goes: if you get hit by a player while in enemy territory, that will encourage the type of redstone/smother trap where you have one noob at the bottom of the trap hit the guy once through a half-slab. No need to even fight.

 

[MonMarty]

I'm going to ask @Cythyan to read the replies since my last reply and give me an educated opinion on what has been discussed. A lot of this is all mumbo jumbo to me because I don't know how PVP actually happens in faction lands since I come from a day when cannon traps were still a thing.

 

[Cythyan]

Hello There everyone! As Monmarty has stated in his previous reply we in the PvP department have discussed to change the now current "Pacifist" benefit you will get from a premium purchase. What does this mean? It means that while you as a premium member of Massivecraft hit or get hit by another player you/he will be combat tagged aswell as you do, meaning that if you kill him or you get killed you/he will drop your/his inventory. Armor is still kept upon death. The reason why we have discussed this is that we see people frequently running inside a trap/house or related and when they do not get any kills they simply run to the door where their team heals them on the door to avoid consequences. (Player is inside while his team throws potions on him to keep him alive for 30 seconds to reach pacifist)

You will still keep your inventory upon PVE death. Example of this can be dying from lava, starving or die from fall damage without being combat tagged by another player.


If this is going to be implemented or not I do not dare to say yet but it has been an discussion.

-Cythyan

 

[Zacatero]

Hello There everyone! As Monmarty has stated in his previous reply we in the PvP department have discussed to change the now current "Pacifist" benefit you will get from a premium purchase. What does this mean? It means that while you as a premium member of Massivecraft hit or get hit by another player you/he will be combat tagged aswell as you do, meaning that if you kill him or you get killed you/he will drop your/his inventory. Armor is still kept upon death. The reason why we have discussed this is that we see people frequently running inside a trap/house or related and when they do not get any kills they simply run to the door where their team heals them on the door to avoid consequences. (Player is inside while his team throws potions on him to keep him alive for 30 seconds to reach pacifist)

You will still keep your inventory upon PVE death. Example of this can be dying from lava, starving or die from fall damage without being combat tagged by another player.


If this is going to be implemented or not I do not dare to say yet but it has been an discussion.

-Cythyan

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry but I can see SOOO many problems with this... So now if somebody buys premium and they are just... walking around their town or whatever and raiders come... they lose all their items???

I truly hope this is reconsidered because the way I see it... the more passive players (ie.. RP or just..not PVP focused) have less of a reason to donate now. and the roleplayers who want to have an RP faction... now have EVEN LESS of a reason to donate than they did before.

 

[Winterless]

Hello There everyone! As Monmarty has stated in his previous reply we in the PvP department have discussed to change the now current "Pacifist" benefit you will get from a premium purchase. What does this mean? It means that while you as a premium member of Massivecraft hit or get hit by another player you/he will be combat tagged aswell as you do, meaning that if you kill him or you get killed you/he will drop your/his inventory. Armor is still kept upon death. The reason why we have discussed this is that we see people frequently running inside a trap/house or related and when they do not get any kills they simply run to the door where their team heals them on the door to avoid consequences. (Player is inside while his team throws potions on him to keep him alive for 30 seconds to reach pacifist)

You will still keep your inventory upon PVE death. Example of this can be dying from lava, starving or die from fall damage without being combat tagged by another player.


If this is going to be implemented or not I do not dare to say yet but it has been an discussion.

-Cythyan

Click to shrink...

You will lose quite a bit of money for the server if you implement this, I would assume.

 

[Zacatero]

@MonMarty @Cythyan

I really appreciate all the work you guys do for the server, and I know yall don't hear that a lot. and I know this probably had a lot of thought to it and was considered within a group of many options. But this just does not seem right for the Massive community. I believe a tweaked iteration of this could work. but as it stands as Cythyan explained above.. It.. its just not going to work out.
Consider the following scenarios
Faction A and Faction B are enemies in both scenarios

Scenario 1

Faction A raids Faction B. Raider A kills Defender B on B land. B wasn't fighting, B was just walking around their town, and now, since they were killed (which was not their choice at all to fight) they have no inventory.

Scenario 2

Faction B raids Faction A. Defender A kills Raider B on A land. Raider B had become PVP inactive, but since he was the aggressor in this situation.. Raider B SHOULD lose all his stuff since A successfully defended.

This server, thanks to the no explosions and similar game changes, doesn't let somebody else control your gameplay. Scenario 2 is fine.. But please, don't let Scenario 1 be allowed to happen.

 

[HeartAched]

Hello There everyone! As Monmarty has stated in his previous reply we in the PvP department have discussed to change the now current "Pacifist" benefit you will get from a premium purchase. What does this mean? It means that while you as a premium member of Massivecraft hit or get hit by another player you/he will be combat tagged aswell as you do, meaning that if you kill him or you get killed you/he will drop your/his inventory. Armor is still kept upon death. The reason why we have discussed this is that we see people frequently running inside a trap/house or related and when they do not get any kills they simply run to the door where their team heals them on the door to avoid consequences. (Player is inside while his team throws potions on him to keep him alive for 30 seconds to reach pacifist)

You will still keep your inventory upon PVE death. Example of this can be dying from lava, starving or die from fall damage without being combat tagged by another player.


If this is going to be implemented or not I do not dare to say yet but it has been an discussion.

-Cythyan

Click to shrink...

That's cool I guess. /trash my weapon anyways. lol

 

[Alj23]

@MonMarty @Cythyan

I really appreciate all the work you guys do for the server, and I know yall don't hear that a lot. and I know this probably had a lot of thought to it and was considered within a group of many options. But this just does not seem right for the Massive community. I believe a tweaked iteration of this could work. but as it stands as Cythyan explained above.. It.. its just not going to work out.
Consider the following scenarios
Faction A and Faction B are enemies in both scenarios

Scenario 1

Faction A raids Faction B. Raider A kills Defender B on B land. B wasn't fighting, B was just walking around their town, and now, since they were killed (which was not their choice at all to fight) they have no inventory.

Scenario 2

Faction B raids Faction A. Defender A kills Raider B on A land. Raider B had become PVP inactive, but since he was the aggressor in this situation.. Raider B SHOULD lose all his stuff since A successfully defended.

This server, thanks to the no explosions and similar game changes, doesn't let somebody else control your gameplay. Scenario 2 is fine.. But please, don't let Scenario 1 be allowed to happen.

Click to shrink...

That's cool I guess. /trash my weapon anyways. lol

Click to shrink...

By being in the faction world, and especially being outside, you agree to the possibility that you can be attacked at any time, and lose your items. Non premiums live with this fear everytime they step out of their house. To exist in the faction world is to accept that one can possibly die. To think otherwise is the basis of the beginnings of an end to PVP as we know it.

 

[Zacatero]

By being in the faction world, and especially being outside, you agree to the possibility that you can be attacked at any time, and lose your items. Non premiums live with this fear everytime they step out of their house. To exist in the faction world is to accept that one can possibly die. To think otherwise is the basis of the beginnings of an end to PVP as we know it.

Click to shrink...

This is not the way Massive advertises their community at all. This would put massive on the same level as any other random faction server that you risk losing ur items when u get killed.

And its not a good business move either. There are people who's primary reason for donating is the keep inventory upon death.

 

[Alj23]

This is not the way Massive advertises their community at all. This would put massive on the same level as any other random faction server that you risk losing ur items when u get killed.

And its not a good business move either. There are people who's primary reason for donating is the keep inventory upon death.

Click to shrink...

I didn't say that's how MassiveCraft advertised itself. What I'm saying is that I dislike people that want all the safety of Regalia while being in the survival "PVP ENABLED" worlds.