Archived Removal Of Lwc Fee

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X0N3333

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Lwc is a good plugin, its got good features and nice commands but this fee that has been coded into the plugin is not.
Protecting your stuff from thievery should be free, protection plugins are there to protect all of your stuff no make you pay money to protect them.
If you must pay for every locked chest and cannot move them without paying I don't think that's a very good system.
If you were to move to another faction you will have to pay to relock those chests all over again meaning if you are going to move somewhere any time soon there's no point in locking them. e.g if you are someone who moves a lot like a hermit every few months then you will have to pay for your 20 or so chests every single time you move. Another thing about a price for lwc, it makes it immensely easy for people to go from faction to faction stealing peoples stuff from chests they cannot afford to lock, in deadbolt you were stupid not to lock them but with lwc you can't help but leave behind a few chests unlocked because of the price.
I was once stolen from by some dude who managed to open a chest in a officer room, it was silly for me to not deadbolt them so I decided to deadbolt all of them so no stealing can occur.
But if this was to happen with lwc and you cannot afford to lock them all there's nothing you can do to protect your own chests. Take a look at any popular protection plugin, it lets you lock stuff for free because its your stuff and there should be no obstacle to stop you from locking your own stuff.
It's eight days left till all deadbolts expire and still most of my stuff is deadbolted, I certainly am not the only one who doing this just to avoid having to pay.
We haven't heard much about the removal of this free so I am creating a thread so we as a community can decide whether we ditch it or keep it.
 
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KSTRandom said:
Well, actually that exactly reduces inflation. Inflation is when there is too much money and everything drops in value. Thus for a little while prices will indeed go up, but that means YOUR prices go up too. While less money is being circulated about because of money being pooled out in 10r increments, more money will actually get to players because more people will be selling all the time, as well as buying. it will encourage more trade so you can lock more stuff. Thus, there will be an increase in supply. Supply means that everyone is selling tons of the same item. Which, in turn, means prices will drop. To attract business to yourself, you drop your prices and then sell more. And then the next person sells for a bit cheaper then you, and you have gas-station penny wars from the 50s-80s (somewhere in there, dont remember exactly where) and the standard becomes a relatively low price. And unlike real life, technically resources are infinite in massive. As through voting and salvage you can get diamonds infinately. As well as new worlds will be created, and full of diamonds to pluck. Like fenderfell, FULL OF 'em. So is new ceradia. And to some much lesser extent, Ithania still has some decent mining left in her. As well as things like enchanted books, infinitely renewable. Meaning, prices have no reason to go back up so long as merchants still exist for it. The current 100-200r UnbIII price I've been seeing everywhere could drop to an even 100r, just from sheer supply. Diamond blocks could go back down in price again, ect. It really will drop inflation, though many believe it doesnt exist, I think it sort of does, just from observing the economic change in Massive over the time of a month (namely, how all the prices increased by a ton between holiday break and the return to school (which thanks to snow days was roughly a month.) The increase was ridiculous. And its probably due to the premium money bonus. The server needs a good money sink, while not too large as to not completely negate the bonus, to filter some of that out.
It doesnt make everyone exponentially poorer. It really doesnt drain your wallets too much. 10 regals isnt that much money, even when stacked 10, 20, even 50 times. If you really need fast money, go to a fenderfell darkroom for a bit. The massivemobs spawn rate is much better, coupled with Fenderfells already great spawnrate, and im pretty sure the special mobs have more of a chance to drop money. I went up nearly 200 regals in 1 hour. And when the rarer ones start dropping voting level loot, it'll get even better.
And again, this isnt the first time in massivecraft history where like 4 forums were made to complain about something that was announced/implemented, nor the first time a majority of people sided with someone that was for something that sounds good, but isnt necisarrily in the best interest of the server.
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Inflation is actually when the prices of goods go up because of certain reasons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
I doubt this will make people want to both sell and buy at the same time. If you want to protect all your stuff your money is going to take a hit and because of that you can't buy as much. Therefore if everyone must pay to protect their own stuff they will handle their money more cautiously/spend less.
Also this doesn't encourage trades, it's basicly a tax for owning lots of items.
Also inflation doesn't exist in most cases. With things like diamonds many own them in mass amounts and most sell them for 2-3 regals. Inflation does happen with nether related items like ghast tears and mass amounts of blaze rods that have no way of obtaining. Keep in mind inflation with nether items can simply be fixed with the addition of a new nether. With something like diamonds when I first joined they were the price equivalent of 4 regals now they come for 2-3 regals and that was 8 months ago. I have never really seen inflation occur, when someone raises their price I find another guy who sells at the same amount and no large amount of people has ever simultaneously sold at higher amounts since there is a lot of competition on the market.
The server doesn't need a money sink, it needs a way to stop all that money from premium and other things coming out of thin air. Here an example, 10 people buy 3 months premium. At the end of the 3 months there is 37500 that have been poofed into the economy. Why filter out all that money when you could just nerf the free money/remove it entirely?
Also I would like to point out to you that most people in massivecraft don't own or can even access a dark room. What about these people? They hardly own any money and can't lock all of their own items.
Not only that but this fee doesn't justify a lock for me.
Here an example, you have a door and a button, instead of locking the door place a button on it. I don't see any advantage of a fee other than making people more poorer.
 
SaintsDemon said:
Man you don't need to treat me like a noob or one of these children :D
In fact, you might be right about voting system, however, it brings a lot of money - maybe too much.
About the premium features: there are enough ways to incentivize player to buy premium like giving them lwc's advantages and well, its not that i want to lock dirt and similar stuff but theres still enough that needs to be locked (also beside chests)
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I wasnt meaning to treat you like a noob, I was just summarizing my points and statements since you said you were too lazy to read most of it. Sorry for offending if I did.
And while yes, premium brings in an extra 750 regals per month per premium, it is effectively drained out of the economy by LWC.
 
Inflation is actually when the prices of goods go up because of certain reasons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
I doubt this will make people want to both sell and buy at the same time. If you want to protect all your stuff your money is going to take a hit and because of that you can't buy as much. Therefore if everyone must pay to protect their own stuff they will handle their money more cautiously/spend less.
Also this doesn't encourage trades, it's basicly a tax for owning lots of items.
Also inflation doesn't exist in most cases. With things like diamonds many own them in mass amounts and most sell them for 2-3 regals. Inflation does happen with nether related items like ghast tears and mass amounts of blaze rods that have no way of obtaining. Keep in mind inflation with nether items can simply be fixed with the addition of a new nether. With something like diamonds when I first joined they were the price equivalent of 4 regals now they come for 2-3 regals and that was 8 months ago. I have never really seen inflation occur, when someone raises their price I find another guy who sells at the same amount and no large amount of people has ever simultaneously sold at higher amounts since there is a lot of competition on the market.
Inflation is actually when the prices of goods go up because of certain reasons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
I doubt this will make people want to both sell and buy at the same time. If you want to protect all your stuff your money is going to take a hit and because of that you can't buy as much. Therefore if everyone must pay to protect their own stuff they will handle their money more cautiously/spend less.
Also this doesn't encourage trades, it's basicly a tax for owning lots of items.
Also inflation doesn't exist in most cases. With things like diamonds many own them in mass amounts and most sell them for 2-3 regals. Inflation does happen with nether related items like ghast tears and mass amounts of blaze rods that have no way of obtaining. Keep in mind inflation with nether items can simply be fixed with the addition of a new nether. With something like diamonds when I first joined they were the price equivalent of 4 regals now they come for 2-3 regals and that was 8 months ago. I have never really seen inflation occur, when someone raises their price I find another guy who sells at the same amount and no large amount of people has ever simultaneously sold at higher amounts since there is a lot of competition on the market.
The server doesn't need a money sink, it needs a way to stop all that money from premium and other things coming out of thin air. Here an example, 10 people buy 3 months premium. At the end of the 3 months there is 37500 that have been poofed into the economy. Why filter out all that money when you could just nerf the free money/remove it entirely?
Also I would like to point out to you that most people in massivecraft don't own or can even access a dark room. What about these people? They hardly own any money and can't lock all of their own items.
Not only that but this fee doesn't justify a lock for me.
Here an example, you have a door and a button, instead of locking the door place a button on it. I don't see any advantage of a fee other than making people more poorer.
Also I would like to point out to you that most people in massivecraft don't own or can even access a dark room. What about these people? They hardly own any money and can't lock all of their own items.
Not only that but this fee doesn't justify a lock for me.
Here an example, you have a door and a button, instead of locking the door place a button on it. I don't see any advantage of a fee other than making people more poorer.
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It increases trade because if people want to lock everything under the sun you own, then you HAVE to make money somehow. You HAVE to trade.
And, its 22500 regals-- regardless, that's precisely why we need a money sink. Even if we stop the money coming in, it /Still exists/ so you have to have some sort of sink to take it out. These darkroomless people can make a darkroom. And this fee is good for the economy. The inflation of the economy is the cause of rare things like diamonds being so low. Inflation causes everything to lose so much value.
 
KSTRandom said:
The inflation of the economy is the cause of rare things like diamonds being so low. Inflation causes everything to lose so much value.
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You probably don't understand economics very well, let me give you some basics.

More money in the system = prices rising. When more money is introduced, the value of it becomes less compared to stock. So you need more of it for the same items.

More demand than stock = prices rising. As items becomes more rare, they become more valuable.

Less money in the system = prices falling. If there is less money in the system, money becomes more valuable and is worth more stock per regal.

More stock than demand = prices falling. What you're seeing with diamonds is a huge amount of dupes causing prices to fall.

The problem with LWC is that it's a big one time investment during these first months, but after that it cools down, as people have secured their main stocks, and becomes a small drainage over time only to have individual spikes as big warehouses gets moved around. But on a massive scale, this won't affect the drainage much, but it can have a huge effect on individuals.

Premium however will keep a steady pace of flooding money into the system. Unless we have a sudden increase or decrease in the amount of premiums, the pace will not change. So what we have with LWC is a short term fix for a long term problem.
 
Nordhbane said:
You probably don't understand economics very well, let me give you some basics.

More money in the system = prices rising. When more money is introduced, the value of it becomes less compared to stock. So you need more of it for the same items.

More demand than stock = prices rising. As items becomes more rare, they become more valuable.

Less money in the system = prices falling. If there is less money in the system, money becomes more valuable and is worth more stock per regal.

More stock than demand = prices falling. What you're seeing with diamonds is a huge amount of dupes causing prices to fall.

The problem with LWC is that it's a big one time investment during these first months, but after that it cools down, as people have secured their main stocks, and becomes a small drainage over time only to have individual spikes as big warehouses gets moved around. But on a massive scale, this won't affect the drainage much, but it can have a huge effect on individuals.

Premium however will keep a steady pace of flooding money into the system. Unless we have a sudden increase or decrease in the amount of premiums, the pace will not change. So what we have with LWC is a short term fix for a long term problem.
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Agreed
I do remember saying many months ago about how this premium free money would just poof money into the economy. I'm not saying remove it but maybe nerfing it would make a lot of sense. It is almost as if massivecraft is trying to deflate a already inflating balloon by punching a small hole in the balloon rather than just cutting of the helium source. I have only 5 protections made so I wouldn't have to pay a lot of money for mere ownership. When someone first becomes premium and gets the 750 regals they most likely will instantly go to the market and buy diamonds/god armor meaning that demand increases exponentially when multiple premiums do it at once. As you said more demand means higher prices and I don't think that lwc would even be able to deflate all that money coming from premium. A tax for ownership of items is not the way to go to get rid of inflation.
 

KSTRandom said:
Taking away bonuses for premium and voting makes less people want to buy premium and makes NO ONE want to vote. Then the server doesnt get noticed, and less people come. Which is bad for a growing server. Stagnation means death.

And, you dont need to lock every single chest you own, just hide them or compartmentalize chests, dont organize super thoroughly, and when it comes to the fee, save up some cash and dont plan on moving your entire base of operations somewhere else before you lock down.

Money needs to be pooled out of the system. Even if voting and premium monetary bonuses stop, extra money is still going to be filtered into the system through mobs and quests and etc. A good sink like this causes money to steadily flow out. And, its not really limiting your game experiance. YOU DONT NEED TO LOCK EVERYTHING YOU OWN. Locking isnt part of the core gameplay. You dont need it. Its not even manditory to play and live on massive. I would know. I dont ever use it.
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Sometimes people cannot create hidden chests protected by faction land, because maybe their faction only gives them perms for one house.
"YOU DONT NEED TO LOCK EVERYTHING YOU OWN."
Items that aren't necessarily valuable like wood, stone, fish, coal etc, would still piss me off if they were stolen. I personally would have to pay a fortune if I went to every chest I own and say, "Hmm, would I care if this chest was robbed?" and if the answer was yes, to lock the chest. I don't see why we should try to cope with a problem (LWC fee) that was created to fight a nonexistent problem (Inflation), rather than getting rid of it.(Fee)​
 
TiroTypo DesmondDiseos Explain your "Disagrees" on my comment on the first page or remove them.
Unless you've posted one and I just didn't see it... In which I'd like to see them reposted so I can see and understand your point of view.
 
Shayin said:
TiroTypo DesmondDiseos Explain your "Disagrees" on my comment on the first page or remove them.
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Shayin said:
Unless you've posted one and I just didn't see it... In which I'd like to see them reposted so I can see and understand your point of view.
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I just disagree with what you wrote... Is that really so hard to accept? o_o; I mean, it seems unfair to rich people who worked for their money. It's stupid to punish them for making a lot of money within a week when they've earned it. For people who sell art they can make up to 5000 regals a week and sometimes even more. I don't want to see my friends taxed because people are poor and don't want to pay the fee to lock their chests. I'd rather just have the overall fee lowered.
 
From an outsider's point of view, I think you guys are making an unnecessary deal over this. Its just 5 regals and plus you dont have to lock everything. But then again, its in human nature to try to resist change.
 
Shayin basically the same reason Tiro disagreed, I just didn't like the idea, it seems unfair for those who have lots of money and/or make lots of it at the same time. I'd rather just have the fee as it is right now lowered by a few regals.
 
TheBatman1016 said:
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Sometimes people cannot create hidden chests protected by faction land, because maybe their faction only gives them perms for one house.​
"YOU DONT NEED TO LOCK EVERYTHING YOU OWN." ​
Items that aren't necessarily valuable like wood, stone, fish, coal etc, would still piss me off if they were stolen. I personally would have to pay a fortune if I went to every chest I own and say, "Hmm, would I care if this chest was robbed?" and if the answer was yes, to lock the chest. I don't see why we should try to cope with a problem (LWC fee) that was created to fight a nonexistent problem (Inflation), rather than getting rid of it.(Fee)​
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There is an inflation problem, Money is pooling in by the boatload that didnt exist before in the economy and not only that but we have an unequal distribution of wealth problem as well. As well, there isnt nearly enough trade. Less than half the server participates in tradechat/has a chestshop in regalia (aka the only place its likely to get noticed)
And, thats a PERSONAL problem. If you are too much of a hoarder to say "meh, it was just some easy to collect wood, or some simple coal that is literally everywhere (and can be made from wood), etc." then that is your problem. However there are outside of LWC solutions that can be taken to avoid this. Hide your chests somewhere in your 1 room your faction gives you; Go join another faction if your faction has a stealing problem and dont care enough to help you; etc. so you'll be somewhere that will protect you. The fee is a good idea, and its not like its a continual tax
 
KSTRandom said:
There is an inflation problem, Money is pooling in by the boatload that didnt exist before in the economy and not only that but we have an unequal distribution of wealth problem as well. As well, there isnt nearly enough trade. Less than half the server participates in tradechat/has a chestshop in regalia (aka the only place its likely to get noticed)
And, thats a PERSONAL problem. If you are too much of a hoarder to say "meh, it was just some easy to collect wood, or some simple coal that is literally everywhere (and can be made from wood), etc." then that is your problem. However there are outside of LWC solutions that can be taken to avoid this. Hide your chests somewhere in your 1 room your faction gives you; Go join another faction if your faction has a stealing problem and dont care enough to help you; etc. so you'll be somewhere that will protect you. The fee is a good idea, and its not like its a continual tax
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With all due respect, show me some examples of inflation, as I for the moment see none.
 
TheBatman1016 said:
With all due respect, show me some examples of inflation, as I for the moment see none.
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Well, money is being pooled into the economy and thus the value of money is being inflated causing it to go down and causing some things to go up in price and some to drop completely.
 
KSTRandom said:
Well, money is being pooled into the economy and thus the value of money is being inflated causing it to go down and causing some things to go up in price and some to drop completely.
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A sudden drop of prices is the opposite of inflation my friend, and again, where are the examples of items that have largely increased in price. (Of course besides items found in the nether)
 
TheBatman1016 said:
A sudden drop of prices is the opposite of inflation my friend, and again, where are the examples of items that have largely increased in price. (Of course besides items found in the nether)
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Yes, but inflation is caused by things like extra money being printed, which is what is happening here. As well, it leads to extremes on both ends with no real middle ground. Normally things drop to being dirt cheap because tons of people can buy them, and then the seller ups the price when he realizes he needs to in order to keep up with the flux of the economy. Considering the prem fee was only added in (December?) things have only started to get bad. Also, Diamond blocks have gone up significantly in price over the past two months, as has premium (seriously, by 1000r at least, just for 1 month), God gear has risen in price-- as have clay, ink sacs, some other misc building blocks. And on the other side, Enchanted books have fallen in price in most areas, including unbreaking, to the point of being dirt cheap, and sellers are trading for a massive loss, because many essential/important items have gone up by 100-200r in price since December.
 
KSTRandom said:
Yes, but inflation is caused by things like extra money being printed, which is what is happening here. As well, it leads to extremes on both ends with no real middle ground. Normally things drop to being dirt cheap because tons of people can buy them, and then the seller ups the price when he realizes he needs to in order to keep up with the flux of the economy. Considering the prem fee was only added in (December?) things have only started to get bad. Also, Diamond blocks have gone up significantly in price over the past two months, as has premium (seriously, by 1000r at least, just for 1 month), God gear has risen in price-- as have clay, ink sacs, some other misc building blocks. And on the other side, Enchanted books have fallen in price in most areas, including unbreaking, to the point of being dirt cheap, and sellers are trading for a massive loss, because many essential/important items have gone up by 100-200r in price since December.
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Many of those items may have gone up, but not too significantly that you can say it was inflation. And inflation won't ever cause things to go down in price, since everyone has lots of money, all the sellers raise their prices, since the people can now afford that.
 
Don't get rid of premium monthly regal allowance; Why? Well, that 750 regals? Yea, it helps them create shops and maintain them easily, which does help the economy. If Premiums have to darkroom *even with 2x regals* they would spend more time doing that and trying to maintain their shops then,lets say, role-playing or mining, or building up/organizing their factions; having to maintain/pay all their bills limits them from doing everything else. Premiums can now own shops and houses easily thanks to that allowance; often times achieving high positions in their factions or creating their own, also very successful factions because they can focus on helping others instead of just themselves. Just some opinions, hope I don't cause any major issues with anyone here. Also, premiums? Yea, they're the reason you get to play, so be nice to them. xD <3 <3 <3
 
It not really possible for mass inflation to happen. If someone ever increases the price for their goods I'll just find another stall with a better price. I once bought from this dude who sold diamonds for 2 regals, he then upped it to 3 and I went to another stall and bought by diamonds there. There has never been an instance where all the shops at once sold a certain item for a inflated price, it not possible with such a gigantic market.
 
AurelienBela. said:
Don't get rid of premium monthly regal allowance; Why? Well, that 750 regals? Yea, it helps them create shops and maintain them easily, which does help the economy. If Premiums have to darkroom *even with 2x regals* they would spend more time doing that and trying to maintain their shops then,lets say, role-playing or mining, or building up/organizing their factions; having to maintain/pay all their bills limits them from doing everything else. Premiums can now own shops and houses easily thanks to that allowance; often times achieving high positions in their factions or creating their own, also very successful factions because they can focus on helping others instead of just themselves. Just some opinions, hope I don't cause any major issues with anyone here. Also, premiums? Yea, they're the reason you get to play, so be nice to them. xD <3 <3 <3
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I don't think it should be removed I think it should be nerfed to 250 or 300 regals since this is just poofing large amounts money into the economy. Keep in mind that most premiums don't even role play nor mine, their focus is on pvp. The money you get from being premium far exceeds the price of a Regelia house, if you used the money from premium to buy Regelia houses you would be able to afford the rent of a year and 3 months of a regelia houses for only being premium for 3 months. Premiums are atm earning large amounts of money not from hard effort, tactis or skill but by merely having a green name. I do know that premiums fund this server but that doesn't mean we will not complain about it or try and fix it.
Any ways lets get this back onto the lwc/inflation because I don't want this becoming a premium argument thread
 
X0N3333 said:
I don't think it should be removed I think it should be nerfed to 250 or 300 regals since this is just poofing large amounts money into the economy. Keep in mind that most premiums don't even role play nor mine, their focus is on pvp. The money you get from being premium far exceeds the price of a Regelia house, if you used the money from premium to buy Regelia houses you would be able to afford the rent of a year and 3 months of a regelia houses for only being premium for 3 months. Premiums are atm earning large amounts of money not from hard effort, tactis or skill but by merely having a green name. I do know that premiums fund this server but that doesn't mean we will not complain about it or try and fix it.
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Thanks for being subtle and not raging at me, but yes you have a nice point, but I do not really seem to have an issue with Premiums, so I have not much more to say. Thank you for keeping such a nice thread where everyone debates and discusses instead of argument. <3
 
TheBatman1016 said:
Many of those items may have gone up, but not too significantly that you can say it was inflation. And inflation won't ever cause things to go down in price, since everyone has lots of money, all the sellers raise their prices, since the people can now afford that.
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Actually, yes they will. As I explained. because sellers arent super computers that know when the economy is bad and not everyone is involved in a network of marketers that warn when the economy is going bad. People get a gradual increase in business at first, and it starts to pick up, but they feel like raising the price will drive off customers- so they keep it low. And it even drops, to increase the volume of trade to try and make up for the loss. Like I said, its only been not even 3 months since the "extra printing" started happening. The effects aren't quite as bad yet as they would become without a decent money sink to pool the money out of the server.
 
X0N3333 said:
I don't think it should be removed I think it should be nerfed to 250 or 300 regals since this is just poofing large amounts money into the economy. Keep in mind that most premiums don't even role play nor mine, their focus is on pvp. The money you get from being premium far exceeds the price of a Regelia house, if you used the money from premium to buy Regelia houses you would be able to afford the rent of a year and 3 months of a regelia houses for only being premium for 3 months. Premiums are atm earning large amounts of money not from hard effort, tactis or skill but by merely having a green name. I do know that premiums fund this server but that doesn't mean we will not complain about it or try and fix it.
Any ways lets get this back onto the lwc/inflation because I don't want this becoming a premium argument thread
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You support a nerf, but not a simple money sink? A nerf doesnt fix anything. It keeps all the extra money in circulation, and just pushes more in at a smaller amount. The LWC sink will be forgotten about after the intital conversion of the chestrooms. Give it another week or two and no one will be complaining about LWC because it simply doesnt/seldom does effect them. If someone plans on moving, they can calculate the amount of regals they need to move and then save up for it. Thats also a good thing, because it discourages people from settling down for a week and then deciding "I want to completely move and leave a weeks worth of building work here, so that it can become griefed ruins for some admin to clean up." The effect it will have on the players after filtering out a good chunk of money will be occasional and case to case. For some players who just start on the server and decide to buy premium, this allowance is the only money they get while getting themselves established, and can be an important lifeline. 250-300 regals isnt enough to get hardly anything, and you forget, a month is quite a long time in the scheme of things.
 
KSTRandom said:
You support a nerf, but not a simple money sink? A nerf doesnt fix anything. It keeps all the extra money in circulation, and just pushes more in at a smaller amount. The LWC sink will be forgotten about after the intital conversion of the chestrooms. Give it another week or two and no one will be complaining about LWC because it simply doesnt/seldom does effect them. If someone plans on moving, they can calculate the amount of regals they need to move and then save up for it. Thats also a good thing, because it discourages people from settling down for a week and then deciding "I want to completely move and leave a weeks worth of building work here, so that it can become griefed ruins for some admin to clean up." The effect it will have on the players after filtering out a good chunk of money will be occasional and case to case. For some players who just start on the server and decide to buy premium, this allowance is the only money they get while getting themselves established, and can be an important lifeline. 250-300 regals isnt enough to get hardly anything, and you forget, a month is quite a long time in the scheme of things.
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The reason we need these so called money sinks is because of all this free money from premium. A nerf will fix the money getting into the system anymore. Why fix a problem with another problem when you can fix the original problem? Atm it's been more than 2 weeks since they first announced lwc and still people dislike it, I for sure will never change my opinion on it since we are being taxed on ownership. The thing is when people move they need to do it fast, if you're going to leave a faction you're left in a extremely awfull situation with your locked chests since if you want to lock those chests all over again in a new location you have to save up money which could take a long time. Also if you spent a week on building something you would not just randomly leave the place, most ruins you see are from inactive people who no longer play or don't want to live there anymore. A fee that stops thievery is not the way to go to fix a broken economy, it limits how much stuff you can own and will increase theivery, yeah sure if you lock strategicly you only get stolen a few chests of cobble, wood and whatnots but if a plugin design allows such a thing to happen when it is designed to stop it from happening you have a very bad system for a plugin.
 
KSTRandom said:
Well, money is being pooled into the economy and thus the value of money is being inflated causing it to go down and causing some things to go up in price and some to drop completely.
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You really need to go back and read my last reply explaining the basics behind economy ups and downs. Pooling money into the system deflates moneys value, not inflates. If an items cost drops during this it's not because of the value of money, but because of the demand being lower than the stock, creating an overflow.

As it is now, you're just making uneducated posts, showing that you pretty much think the same as us, because you seem to think the LWC cost does the opposite to the economy than it does. And thus we're actually on the same page, it's just that you've yet to realize it. You seem to be fighting for an LWC fee, for the same reason that we're fighting against it.

We both want a steady economy on the server, right?
 
@XON3333
See the premium money (750r each month) as a normal salary. With this money they can rent shops, buy houses etc. There are a lot more shops opened at /warp market compared to when I started to play on the server.
Regalia got more crowded as well. That's positive; Regalia is after all the center of the servers.

The money fee... Well it costs a lot of money agreed.
The thing is that people are greedy. (I don't mean you, so don't take offence! :)) They want to have everything for themself. Every different block of stone should be locked up.
This lwc fee, made me think twice, wether locking a chest or not. I lock only my precious stuff and studf I bought.
 
Nordhbane said:
You really need to go back and read my last reply explaining the basics behind economy ups and downs. Pooling money into the system deflates moneys value, not inflates. If an items cost drops during this it's not because of the value of money, but because of the demand being lower than the stock, creating an overflow.

As it is now, you're just making uneducated posts, showing that you pretty much think the same as us, because you seem to think the LWC cost does the opposite to the economy than it does. And thus we're actually on the same page, it's just that you've yet to realize it. You seem to be fighting for an LWC fee, for the same reason that we're fighting against it.

We both want a steady economy on the server, right?
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Now you're being an ass.
No, I am not confused in my viewpoint just because I had the terms inflation and deflation switched. I do not share your greedy and lazy opinions that there should be no fee because it "costs so much money" because "chest privating is absolutely necessary" and "This fee will break all our banks and make us oh so poor." And if you know anything about the economy on this server, you'd know there's more of a market for enchanted goods then most everything else. So, then, why did the prices nose dive? You might be smart in economics of the real world, but on a non-regulated, hard to control game economy, things work a bit differently. I'm arguing for the fee because its good for multiple things. Good for the economy to fight against *deflation, which is bad. Because, if you've read any of my posts all the way through rather then selecting the bits that I was wrong on to make me look like an idiot and yourself all the smarter, you'd see that what I've been saying all along, to go back to your post explaining what I already knew about real world economics (forgive me for not having my terms correct, never had a class in it or anything, just played on a lot of economy services and I am interested in learning a lot, so I've done some mild reading and listening to economic topics.) Money is being pulled in and we need to filter it out. LWC is a good sink, because its not a constant sink. A constant sink would be bad. Its an occasional sink. But as I'll say again: Massivecraft isnt the real world. Many people who trade arent economists. They have no idea what they're doing. I've played on so many servers with economy over the three years I've played minecraft. They dont work like real world economics because they are ran by kids and teens, many who dont know diddly about economics or really how to play the game at all sometimes. They arent going to operate by some standard of logic when most of them dont know how to use or hold on to money.
There is a lot of new money coming in and it needs to be filtered out at a reasonable rate. LWCs fee will do so.
 
X0N3333 said:
The reason we need these so called money sinks is because of all this free money from premium. A nerf will fix the money getting into the system anymore. Why fix a problem with another problem when you can fix the original problem? Atm it's been more than 2 weeks since they first announced lwc and still people dislike it, I for sure will never change my opinion on it since we are being taxed on ownership. The thing is when people move they need to do it fast, if you're going to leave a faction you're left in a extremely awfull situation with your locked chests since if you want to lock those chests all over again in a new location you have to save up money which could take a long time. Also if you spent a week on building something you would not just randomly leave the place, most ruins you see are from inactive people who no longer play or don't want to live there anymore. A fee that stops thievery is not the way to go to fix a broken economy, it limits how much stuff you can own and will increase theivery, yeah sure if you lock strategicly you only get stolen a few chests of cobble, wood and whatnots but if a plugin design allows such a thing to happen when it is designed to stop it from happening you have a very bad system for a plugin.
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We'd need money sinks anyway, because of darkroom mobs, quests, and voting. They all bring in new money to the system. Sure, its not 750 regals, but as I and several others have said, that isnt that much. That might as well be a monthly paycheck, and its not even close to minimum wage for the prems here. The money gets spread out among the people and then sucked away by LWC. So, it fixes the problem. "Fixing the original problem" as you suggest, suggests taking the premium fee and simply nerfing it. However, that still causes the same problem. Its still bringing in new money by the hundreds. And premiums would much rather keep the fee and their allowance rather then get rid of their allowance. If you would "Fix the original problem" You'd cut off all new money supplies, stop new money from entering the system, and then make the only way to gain money trading and marketing. This would be the only way your suggestion would truly work. Because unless you do that, all this new money is still coming in. All the time. And the money that has already been introduced hasnt gone anywhere just because you nerfed the rather nice paycheck prems get for being premium.

You get taxed in the real world for owning things, like a house-- for protection, like locks and deadbolts and bulkheads-- for cars, for purchases (be happy massive doesnt tax each transaction to sink money out, its just a one time fee per chest. If you decide to move the chest, thats just one more payment of 10r.)

And, you're wrong about the relocating. If you want to leave a faction, plan on it. Don't just up and leave. Ready the money in advance, or take out a loan at mechbank (Or do they only do savings now? they canceled one of their services, I cant remember what-- they might not even be in buisness anymore O.o) if you need to fast travel, pack up your things as fast as you can, and leave- and then repay the loan as fast as you can.

You're also wrong about it limiting what you own. You can lock and own AS MUCH AS YOU WANT. You have no limit to that. The only limit that comes with LWC is a limit each player imposes on themselves. And you can own plenty without locking it. Protection plugins aren't necessary. You dont need them to play on a factions server, or even a vanilla. There are all sorts of clever protection methods you can take without some silly plugin. However the plugin helps ensure total protection. So its nice to have. Regardless, you dont NEED to lock everything you own, nor do you need to limit what you own because of money constraints
 
KSTRandom said:
We'd need money sinks anyway, because of darkroom mobs, quests, and voting. They all bring in new money to the system. Sure, its not 750 regals, but as I and several others have said, that isnt that much. That might as well be a monthly paycheck, and its not even close to minimum wage for the prems here. The money gets spread out among the people and then sucked away by LWC. So, it fixes the problem. "Fixing the original problem" as you suggest, suggests taking the premium fee and simply nerfing it. However, that still causes the same problem. Its still bringing in new money by the hundreds. And premiums would much rather keep the fee and their allowance rather then get rid of their allowance. If you would "Fix the original problem" You'd cut off all new money supplies, stop new money from entering the system, and then make the only way to gain money trading and marketing. This would be the only way your suggestion would truly work. Because unless you do that, all this new money is still coming in. All the time. And the money that has already been introduced hasnt gone anywhere just because you nerfed the rather nice paycheck prems get for being premium.

You get taxed in the real world for owning things, like a house-- for protection, like locks and deadbolts and bulkheads-- for cars, for purchases (be happy massive doesnt tax each transaction to sink money out, its just a one time fee per chest. If you decide to move the chest, thats just one more payment of 10r.)

And, you're wrong about the relocating. If you want to leave a faction, plan on it. Don't just up and leave. Ready the money in advance, or take out a loan at mechbank (Or do they only do savings now? they canceled one of their services, I cant remember what-- they might not even be in buisness anymore O.o) if you need to fast travel, pack up your things as fast as you can, and leave- and then repay the loan as fast as you can.

You're also wrong about it limiting what you own. You can lock and own AS MUCH AS YOU WANT. You have no limit to that. The only limit that comes with LWC is a limit each player imposes on themselves. And you can own plenty without locking it. Protection plugins aren't necessary. You dont need them to play on a factions server, or even a vanilla. There are all sorts of clever protection methods you can take without some silly plugin. However the plugin helps ensure total protection. So its nice to have. Regardless, you dont NEED to lock everything you own, nor do you need to limit what you own because of money constraints
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I think I'm going to end my debate with you for now I guess, nord and batman will most likely continue tho.
 
X0N3333 said:
Going to tag a few staff members since we've heard nothing about this ever happening and you can't leave 78 people hanging
MonMarty Cayorion Thortuna
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You've probably not heard anything about it
because it isnt happening.
They have every right as the staff to say "no, 78 people. No. We're not going to do that."
 
You're right, they do have the right to say that, but when a clear majority opposes a change I believe the staff at least has the responsibility to comment on this issue, even if it is just to say that it won't happen.
 
X0N3333 said:
I think I'm going to end my debate with you for now I guess, nord and batman will most likely continue tho.
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Alright. Thank you for being mostly very respectful during this debate, and know that I meant no offense by my ruder comments (it was late). I understand and acknowledge your points, but I vastly disagree with them. It was a good debate though. I just feel like some of your points were just personal issues with the fees, rather then viewpoints of how it'll be bad for the server. I just believe after a few more weeks this hate for it will fizzle out, the debates on this thread will come to a standstill, and the server will move on to attack the next change.
 
wizered67 said:
You're right, they do have the right to say that, but when a clear majority opposes a change I believe the staff at least has the responsibility to comment on this issue, even if it is just to say that it won't happen.
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I agree, I think they should make a statement, not neccisarily directly on this forum, but a statement none the less about LWC and its future on Massivecraft.
 
Number 1. Lwc is here to stay. We are NOT getting deadbolt back and LWC is the way we have chosen.
Number 2. Me and Gethelp have about 4800 Lwc's and we paid for all 4795 of them. I don't see the issue, in real life if you want your stuff to be safe you pay the bank to keep it safe or you buy a safe to put it in. If you dont like it then start using your faction permissions to guard your stuff. Use /f access and limit the chunk to the player who has his stuff there. The lwc's is not the only way to guard your things.
 
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