Archived Removal Of Lwc Fee

This suggestion has been archived / closed and can no longer be voted on.
Status
Not open for further replies.
X

X0N3333

Lesser Noble
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
133
Reaction score
261
Points
0
Lwc is a good plugin, its got good features and nice commands but this fee that has been coded into the plugin is not.
Protecting your stuff from thievery should be free, protection plugins are there to protect all of your stuff no make you pay money to protect them.
If you must pay for every locked chest and cannot move them without paying I don't think that's a very good system.
If you were to move to another faction you will have to pay to relock those chests all over again meaning if you are going to move somewhere any time soon there's no point in locking them. e.g if you are someone who moves a lot like a hermit every few months then you will have to pay for your 20 or so chests every single time you move. Another thing about a price for lwc, it makes it immensely easy for people to go from faction to faction stealing peoples stuff from chests they cannot afford to lock, in deadbolt you were stupid not to lock them but with lwc you can't help but leave behind a few chests unlocked because of the price.
I was once stolen from by some dude who managed to open a chest in a officer room, it was silly for me to not deadbolt them so I decided to deadbolt all of them so no stealing can occur.
But if this was to happen with lwc and you cannot afford to lock them all there's nothing you can do to protect your own chests. Take a look at any popular protection plugin, it lets you lock stuff for free because its your stuff and there should be no obstacle to stop you from locking your own stuff.
It's eight days left till all deadbolts expire and still most of my stuff is deadbolted, I certainly am not the only one who doing this just to avoid having to pay.
We haven't heard much about the removal of this free so I am creating a thread so we as a community can decide whether we ditch it or keep it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
KSTRandom said:
You know you basically just summed exactly what I said. You didnt even bother to read it because I used an "offensive" word. Thats kind of sad Mech, disregarding a post because I said people are being stupid about this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

๖ۣۜWell, in a way, that really isn't sad. You said it awfully bluntly and should have expected people to react badly to being blunt. Everytime I make a post, knowing I say it bluntly, I always put an apology on it just so that the person knows I am trying to word it right, but am not exactly being too kind with it. It is a lot better to be blunt and ask apology for it instead of just calling a ton of people stupid and then refusing to really admit it.

Plus, I prefered reading Mecharic 's post because he kept it short, he kept it to the point. You know what he did? He helped you make your post BETTER. Like, literally, he just helped make your post better by summing up what you had to say in short, understandable words. Your words above were understandable, but I am doubting people want to read the entire thing if you call them stupid.

To prevent myself from derailing further (Sorry KTS and Mech),​
I personally am looking through the Admin's point of view and see it as something not really needed to be changed all that much.​
I mean, they all stated above and in other threads in dribs and drabbles.​
It seems like some of us really kinda ARE complaining because we are poor.​

The view from an Admin /Longer-Time Player (Or so it seems so far)
  1. It slows down economy inflation
  2. It makes it so you can use less of the space-taking locks
  3. Helps you choose more wisely how you spend your money
  4. Encourages players to get up and move away from RP to focus on the worlds/factions
  5. Prevents 'Noob raids' (Locking any chest they possibly see because they want)
  6. Encourages players to actually be organized
 
my biggest problem with LWC is that if you want to arrange your chest a little you have to pay everytime, if i was sure i would not have to pay each time i moved my chest a little i would not care about that fee i would even pay 50R a chest just because i know i can arrange my chest without losing the lock.
 
Chronicler said:
The view from an Admin (Or so it seems so far)
  1. It slows down economy inflation
  2. It makes it so you can use less of the space-taking locks
  3. Helps you choose more wisely how you spend your money
  4. Encourages players to get up and move away from RP to focus on the worlds/factions
  5. Prevents 'Noob raids' (Locking any chest they possibly see because they want)
  6. Encourages players to actually be organized
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just dont see how 2, 4, 5, and 6 have to do with this, in 5, it says "noob" raids (locking chests because they want) when in al reality and some tests ive done, you can lock chests Anywhere no matter where it is. And how doese it encourage players to be organized, i just dont see that happening... I resently just had to move me entire storage room again, and im still not organized...
 
Once again, the main reason a lot of people are saying no to this is because it will reduce inflation. In reality, I have seen almost the opposite of inflation with many items. Diamonds have dropped almost 100r per stack in the past few months, emeralds (quite obviously) have lost significantly lost value since the opening of New Ceardia, and there are more I can get into. The reason some objects like blaze rods and ghast tears have gone up is not at all because of inflation, it is because these are impossible to get without gana-isha, and they are used to make 1-time use potions, which takes even more out of the system.
 
patrickdxs said:
It was offensive. Plus uncalled for, think before you insult people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It wasnt uncalled for, and if you cant handle being called stupid on occasion, then dont hang around the net.
Its a floppy insult because, you know what? This mess is stupid. There is absolutely no reason to complain. You dont have to lock everything you own. So, no, its not going to cost you an obscene amount of regals. If you're locking every chest you have, you're being an idiot. Plain and simple. If you have enough valuable objects to warrant a 1000 regal chestroom, sell some stuff and make a profit. You dont end up loosing money.
 
KSTRandom said:
It wasnt uncalled for, and if you cant handle being called stupid on occasion, then dont hang around the net.
Its a floppy insult because, you know what? This mess is stupid. There is absolutely no reason to complain. You dont have to lock everything you own. So, no, its not going to cost you an obscene amount of regals. If you're locking every chest you have, you're being an idiot. Plain and simple. If you have enough valuable objects to warrant a 1000 regal chestroom, sell some stuff and make a profit. You dont end up loosing money.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


So according to you 46 people have no reason to complain? :?
Also nobody is going to not browse the web simply because someone called them stupid.
You have called people stupid merely based on their own opinion.
And it was uncalled for like patrick said, calling people stupid like that is immensely rude and could most likely be described as flaming.
You can simply come here and state your opinions nicely like chronicler, toxic and patrick. This thread is not a place for insults nor is this entire forum.
 
Chronicler said:
๖ۣۜWell, in a way, that really isn't sad. You said it awfully bluntly and should have expected people to react badly to being blunt. Everytime I make a post, knowing I say it bluntly, I always put an apology on it just so that the person knows I am trying to word it right, but am not exactly being too kind with it. It is a lot better to be blunt and ask apology for it instead of just calling a ton of people stupid and then refusing to really admit it.

Plus, I prefered reading Mecharic 's post because he kept it short, he kept it to the point. You know what he did? He helped you make your post BETTER. Like, literally, he just helped make your post better by summing up what you had to say in short, understandable words. Your words above were understandable, but I am doubting people want to read the entire thing if you call them stupid.

To prevent myself from derailing further (Sorry KTS and Mech),​
I personally am looking through the Admin's point of view and see it as something not really needed to be changed all that much.​
I mean, they all stated above and in other threads in dribs and drabbles.​
It seems like some of us really kinda ARE complaining because we are poor.​

The view from an Admin (Or so it seems so far)
  1. It slows down economy inflation
  2. It makes it so you can use less of the space-taking locks
  3. Helps you choose more wisely how you spend your money
  4. Encourages players to get up and move away from RP to focus on the worlds/factions
  5. Prevents 'Noob raids' (Locking any chest they possibly see because they want)
  6. Encourages players to actually be organized
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I said before this wont slow inflation but will actually stop any expansion at all and more than anything near shut down the areas of economy which rely on the more poorer players.
 
TylerJG92 said:
I just dont see how 2, 4, 5, and 6 have to do with this, in 5, it says "noob" raids (locking chests because they want) when in al reality and some tests ive done, you can lock chests Anywhere no matter where it is. And how doese it encourage players to be organized, i just dont see that happening... I resently just had to move me entire storage room again, and im still not organized...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

  1. ๖ۣۜWell, there were some cases of noobs running into rooms of people and claiming all of their stuff with the locks because they had the signs to do it. They just did that and barely kept 'active', requiring an admin to come along and pry it off for them, or have the player wait until they forget to log on, whichever was used to deal with the situation. With it costing money, it obviously is going to be a bit harder for the noob just to do that sort of thing again.
  2. Signs for the deadbolts take up a block of space, as a decorator, it got really annoying having to lock those up but hide them because they were quite ugly. They also can be a bother within small areas because they would take up a spot of place, say if you wanted to plop a carpet down, or you wanted snow to fall.
  3. You can't exactly get money from RP only, can you? Regals are mainly obtained by the darkrooming, selling, and gathering of items. Voting only isn't going to get you far, as you eventually might need to buy more food, more drinks, all the such.
  4. Well, one has to be 'organized' to really be smart about their locks. I meant to use it a bit more loosely, as it helps a player sort of place the lines and general locations of things, "Rich shit goes here, shit shit goes here." It was more a loose use than a use like one usually thinks, where they keep it down to the detail. That was just a poor use of words for me, as usual.
And I forgot to add the part on that post "Of a longer-time player", not just admin, that was a plain out screw up of mine, sorry. Thank you for pointing that out, though. >.>
 
X0N3333 said:
So according to you 46 people have no reason to complain? :?
Also nobody is going to not browse the web simply because someone called them stupid.
You have called people stupid merely based on their own opinion.
And it was uncalled for like Patrick said, calling people stupid like that is immensely rude and could most likely be described as flaming.
You can simply come here and state your opinions nicely like chronicler, toxic and patrick. This thread is not a place for insults nor is this entire forum.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, just because there are numbers complaining about something doesn't mean they're right. Just because you're the majority doesn't mean that you're right.
And since when is throwing the word stupid about on THE INTERNET is flaming? Your lot are acting stupid about this mess. There isn't a reason to complain, if you just simply don't lock every chest you own and conserve some space. And, its very good thing for the server. It creates a good money sink to throw some money out of circulation to increase player trading and all together better the economy giving your regals some actual value back, and supply should increase greatly lowering prices of even the most expensive things, so a set of god gear wont empty the average persons bank account, ect.
 
KSTRandom said:
Yes, just because there are numbers complaining about something doesn't mean they're right. Just because you're the majority doesn't mean that you're right.
And since when is throwing the word stupid about on THE INTERNET is flaming? Your lot are acting stupid about this mess. There isn't a reason to complain, if you just simply don't lock every chest you own and conserve some space. And, its very good thing for the server. It creates a good money sink to throw some money out of circulation to increase player trading and all together better the economy giving your regals some actual value back, and supply should increase greatly lowering prices of even the most expensive things, so a set of god gear wont empty the average persons bank account, ect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

MonMarty said:
Do not do any of these on the forum:
  • Flame or insult others
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Calling people stupid is an insult and flaming is insulting.
You do realise that 50 other people have clicked that vote button meaning that they want it gone. Also why should the majority be refused? The majority want it removed so why should the greater amount of people be refused of what they want?
We have a reason to complain because we live in a free society of free speech and opinion. If there really was no reason at all to complain why are there 51 votes?
Also how does charging people money create more trading? With this fee people loose a lot of money just to protect their stuff and can afford less. Also if everyone has to sell stuff to protect their stuff there will be more more expectations of lower prices and in the end less value to what your selling.
The thing is about this money sink unlike other money sinks such as Regelia houses is that it is not optional, its forced if you ever want to protect your stuff.
 
KSTRandom said:
Snip.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Well aren't you just a bucket of sunshine and positive reinforcement?

In all seriousness though, I honestly don't care about the fee. Coming from a guy who's moderately poor, this fee doesn't affect me much at all. Why? Simple. I keep my chests organized based on the contents; Alchemy supplies in one chest, rare stuff in another or just in my ender chest, and random crap I don't really need in another.

I know that I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before, and I'm not objecting removing/reducing the fee. I'm just trying to help draw attention to this ridiculously easy way to get around paying 1000+ Regals for meaningless protection. Only lock chests full of items you absolutely, positively need. Leave your double chests full of cobble/dirt/gravel/other worthless items unlocked, they aren't worth your money.
 
All they need to do is 1, cut down on the voting, 2 lower or rid of premium payment, 3 maybe charge 1r for each teleport/warp ? I don't know, i just don't like to burrow XD
 
hah silly people using LWC. Buy an alt, purchase a faction, claim 10 chunks underground, and your good.
 
X0N3333 said:
Calling people stupid is an insult and flaming is insulting.
You do realise that 50 other people have clicked that vote button meaning that they want it gone. Also why should the majority be refused? The majority want it removed so why should the greater amount of people be refused of what they want?
We have a reason to complain because we live in a free society of free speech and opinion. If there really was no reason at all to complain why are there 51 votes?
Also how does charging people money create more trading? With this fee people loose a lot of money just to protect their stuff and can afford less. Also if everyone has to sell stuff to protect their stuff there will be more more expectations of lower prices and in the end less value to what your selling.
The thing is about this money sink unlike other money sinks such as Regelia houses is that it is not optional, its forced if you ever want to protect your stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I swear everyone on this forum is way too sensitive to simple words. Its hardly an insult, and its not a direct insult to a person, but rather to their actions. And acting like locking chests is unavoidable and that its going to bankrupt you IS STUPID.

And, no, just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean there is a reason. Why do I think there are 51(+?) votes? Bandwagon effect. A few people start complaining about something, doesnt take long for others who dont know what to think to latch onto a popular argument. Just because something is popular doesnt mean its right. Majority isnt always right. And, majority SHOULD be refused if it isnt good for the server. And many people are complaining, in my opinion, because they dont understand how much 10 reagals even is. Its one silver. Such a miniscule amount of money. The new reagal numbers sound much scarier then the old silver numbers. 10 instead of 1, 100 instead of 10, ect. Gives it a larger sense of expensiveness. However, again, its only 1 silver in old money. And 1 silver/10 regals is SUPER EASY to get. Its not a hard sum to come up with at all. Most goods you could sell will fetch atleast 10 regals, mabye not in singular quantities, but who buys things in singular quantities anyway? (talking about stackable items here) And then ofcourse, you can sell enchanted items. Its not hard to get enchanting levels. Even if you dont PvE. So many different ways to attain levels, its easy to get it up to thirty and enchant a book or item. And it'll be even easier in the upcoming 1.8. 10 regals per chest is an easy sum to come up with.

And, locking your chests is very very very optional. You know how many chests I've got locked? None. Every bit of zero. And how many things have I had stolen from me? None. There are so many other ways to protect your valuables. First off, like myself and multiple others have said, push all your super important valuables into a few chests. If you have more than 6-7 chests (the 5 free doublechests and the enderchest [and backpack if you're a premium]) of valuables and aren't using it to make profit, or its for your faction, then you're doing something WRONG. You can always use /f access p as a faction leader/officer to protect chest rooms for faction materials. If you just have that many valuables lying around, then why not go ahead and sell them? If you sell one or two chest fulls (depending on the item in question), you can probably pay for your entire chest room. And you dont need to lock every item you own. Some things just arent valuable enough to warrant being locked. Like simple building blocks such as stone brick. Easy to attain. Most mob drops arent worth locking. Non diamond or non enchanted gear isnt worth locking. Even food isnt worth locking, as its completely renewable. Farm a decent sized wheat farm a few times and you can fill a double chest full of bread. And ofcourse, if you're in a faction and someone steals from you, report them. If your factions leadership is worth anything, the thief will face consequences and you'll get your items back, or at-least something for your loss.

Removing the fee basically enables the server to have a new, non-broken free deadbolt type plugin. What are the cons of that? The same cons of deadbolt. However, things will stay totally locked until the time is up. So, in effect I could go lock up every chest I find that is unlocked. The admins are trying to steer away from that kind of "noob raiding." At the same time, there needs to be more reason to trade, because not enough people are trading.
Charging people money causes people to need money. People needing money are more than likely going to trade and sell. If your clever, you might find a good chest shop that sells something for a low price, and another that buys it for more than you bought it for, then sell it.

The increase in trading will increase the supply of items more, dropping prices. This means less money can buy more. That is an incredibly good thing. Your money will have more value. Even still, 10 regals would not be a lot of money. It never has been. It never will be.
 
I think you should BUY the "Locks" Like in RP..actual locks..and when you lock a door you lose a lock, but if you unlock it you can take the lock OFF and use it somewhere else. Say someone starts with 5 locks when the join the server and spend 10 regals (or whatever the price is/will be) to buy more locks. This way when/if I move I won't have to spend another 10 regals.
 
TheBatman1016 said:
I agree that at the least the price should be lower. I understand that it is a money sink, but inflation isn't a huge problem on massive craft. Over the past 6 months the majority of items (besides emeralds) have stayed relatively the same on average. The second reason to deny this would be, as I have observed many people say, it will cause people to think about what they lock and not hoard. Now, just to lock all my valuables chests, iron, diamond, potions, emerald, and nothing else, it would cost me 750 regals. This doesn't even take into account all my other necessities such as food, wood, coal, etc. And generally, I feel safer having all my chests, anvils, and enchanting tables protected. To do that, I would not only be out of money, but many chests would be open to robbers.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Then there are OCD People like me... I have a Double chest of "Swords" "Combat Axes" "Lumber Axes" "Bows" "Arrows" "Metals" "Gems/Jewels" "Armors" "Dyes" "Raid Equipment" "Mob Loots" "Blocks" "Foods" "Drinks" And then I deadbolt my doors, anvils, enchantment table, and brewing stands...and those aren't even all my chests xD
 
I can't express to y'all how pissed I was when I found out it had a fee, I had stockpiled so many chests filled with valuables for trade, and once that came out I used 700R (Draining a lot of profit I just made within the week) to make sure I wouldn't lose any of it to thieving rats. Why did they feel the need to punish us for doing good? Not only does the fee need to be removed, but I think they should refund all the money that people payed to a plug-in. (facepalm)
 
AurelienBela. said:
I think you should BUY the "Locks" Like in RP..actual locks..and when you lock a door you lose a lock, but if you unlock it you can take the lock OFF and use it somewhere else. Say someone starts with 5 locks when the join the server and spend 10 regals (or whatever the price is/will be) to buy more locks. This way when/if I move I won't have to spend another 10 regals.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Sadly this would require in itself an entire new plugin and that could take weeks if not months.
KSTRandom said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bandwagon effect? What evidence do you even have on this, what you said is mere claims.
Really can't you see more people want this gone than left alone? 56 people don't accidentally click ditch this fee they all have their own reasons to do so.
Also if your post isn't an insult why do most of your posts on this thread get large amounts of offensive ratings?
If your going to post on here going against it ditching it please be at least nice or constructive.
 
X0N3333 said:
Sadly this would require in itself an entire new plugin and that could take weeks if not months.

Bandwagon effect? What evidence do you even have on this, what you said is mere claims.
Really can't you see more people want this gone than left alone? 56 people don't accidentally click ditch this fee they all have their own reasons to do so.
Also if your post isn't an insult why do most of your posts on this thread get large amounts of offensive ratings?
If your going to post on here going against it ditching it please be at least nice or constructive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I have been being constructive. There is a difference between nice and constructive.
And, its because people are sensitive. Some people just read the first line and see the word stupid and mark it offensive.
Also, since the original post, most of my posts have not been insulting, however they are still "offensive" according to the people browsing this thread.

Anyway, Bandwagon effect. Yes. Bandwagon effect. People see people agree with someone, have no opinions of their own on the matter or are unsure, and chose the popular argument. I'm not saying thats everyone who has agreed with this, but you cant use the amount of people as your only backing point in an argument, and you arent saying anything to refute my points, other then taking bits of my words and putting them about in a way that turns what I said into what you want it to say. And I never said they accidentally clicked it. I said some may have chose to simply because more people sided with you. As well, I also said another thing is that people seem to not understand just how much 10 regals is. It looks a lot more expensive then its price in the old money system. And theyre still the same value.
 
Chronicler said:
๖ۣۜNow, I probably am going to be the first to disagree.
So I might as well state my thoughts.

This fee was created so that some money is pushed out of the economy. Currently, we need that because we are so inflated, we might as well get rid of it somehow. Second; It helps people really be choosey about things they need to lock. This prevents people from running around going; OOOHABUNCHACHESTSMINE. I believe there was already another thread with this suggestion, as well. However, I feel the fee needs to be lowed a bit, say 5 Regals. If you wish for the rest of my thoughts, check the LWC suggestions thread by Joshy54100.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

inflation you speak of? how about we ditch silver, multiply them by 10... its like taking a wheel barrel of metal coins just to buy house hold supplies.
 
togal300 said:
inflation you speak of? how about we ditch silver, multiply them by 10... its like taking a wheel barrel of metal coins just to buy house hold supplies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

๖ۣۜExactly, that is why this fee is made, to push some of that money out and away... Otherwise, I don't get the use of this post, I already know the ratio for Silver to Regals. If you could enlighten me, perhaps?
 
KSTRandom said:
I have been being constructive. There is a difference between nice and constructive.
And, its because people are sensitive. Some people just read the first line and see the word stupid and mark it offensive.
Also, since the original post, most of my posts have not been insulting, however they are still "offensive" according to the people browsing this thread.

Anyway, Bandwagon effect. Yes. Bandwagon effect. People see people agree with someone, have no opinions of their own on the matter or are unsure, and chose the popular argument. I'm not saying thats everyone who has agreed with this, but you cant use the amount of people as your only backing point in an argument, and you arent saying anything to refute my points, other then taking bits of my words and putting them about in a way that turns what I said into what you want it to say. And I never said they accidentally clicked it. I said some may have chose to simply because more people sided with you. As well, I also said another thing is that people seem to not understand just how much 10 regals is. It looks a lot more expensive then its price in the old money system. And theyre still the same value.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The reason I use the amount of people as a backing point is because I may not be able to convince you to ditch the fee but I may be able to convince you that most people want it gone for good reason.
Also I would like to point out that 10 regals is exactly equal to 5 diamonds so 2 locked chests could afford a whole diamond chest plate.
The reason I hate this fee is mainly because 3 reasons.
Firstly the price makes everyone have to pay to protect stuff, you can just protect some stuff but really is a protection plugin designed so you can only protect a few chests? I have tonnes of chests full of dirt and stone to fill in to build my faction and I don't want them stolen. Would you rather get diamonds or just protect a chest?
Secondly how the system is handled in and this is the part I like the least. With this fee every time you move you have to pay to protect stuff all over again, there is no variable that stores how many protections you've bought it just takes money each time you protect it beyond the first free ones. With this fee temporary chests are pretty much no longer a thing. This fee does limit protections placed in wilderness but also at the same time it reduces protections placed in factions as well. If you were looting a place and wanted to slowly haul that stuff to your faction over a period of time you can do so. Now this is impossible since whatever protection you place down will subtract 10 regals and that protection you will only use to haul it over. With deadbolt there was a mentality of oh look a bunch of chests time to deadbolt and in my opinion that was good. What you protected was yours without question and you could protect as much as you want and have no one else loot it. With lwc each chest locked is 10 regals and if you own a bunch of chests and move to another area you won't unlock them since there is no point to unlocking them.
Last of all with a fee for protecting blocks protecting stuff in general is discouraged. Take for example a public door, instead of protecting it you could just place down a button on it and allow buttons to be pushed, effectively saving 10 regals. With a discouraged fee some jerk could just end up protecting all your unlocked doors.
This system of pay to protect is a absolutely horrid. It discourages and punishes you just to protect stuff and handles it in a bad way. 10 regals is not a large amount but when the fee is stacked and stacked on each other it can end up becoming immensely high. If I ever want to protect my officer storage chests, door and other faction related objects I'm going to have to cop out 500 regals, effectively half my money for something that was free.
 
I would like some staff to have a look at the opinions presented about the lwc fee and the amount of people who oppose it.
MonMarty Cayorion
 
X0N3333 said:
I would like some staff to have a look at the opinions presented about the lwc fee and the amount of people who oppose it.
MonMarty Cayorion
Also staff please don't make a post trying to convince me to keep this fee. I won't change my opinion on this ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

As much as I agree with you, it is always good to have an open mind on any decision.
 
X0N3333 said:
I would like some staff to have a look at the opinions presented about the lwc fee and the amount of people who oppose it.
MonMarty Cayorion
Also staff please don't make a post trying to convince me to keep this fee. I won't change my opinion on this ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Doesn't that essentially shut down all attempts at coming to a compromise?
 
X0N3333 said:
The reason I use the amount of people as a backing point is because I may not be able to convince you to ditch the fee but I may be able to convince you that most people want it gone for good reason.
Also I would like to point out that 10 regals is exactly equal to 5 diamonds so 2 locked chests could afford a whole diamond chest plate.
The reason I hate this fee is mainly because 3 reasons.
Firstly the price makes everyone have to pay to protect stuff, you can just protect some stuff but really is a protection plugin designed so you can only protect a few chests? I have tonnes of chests full of dirt and stone to fill in to build my faction and I don't want them stolen. Would you rather get diamonds or just protect a chest?
Secondly how the system is handled in and this is the part I like the least. With this fee every time you move you have to pay to protect stuff all over again, there is no variable that stores how many protections you've bought it just takes money each time you protect it beyond the first free ones. With this fee temporary chests are pretty much no longer a thing. This fee does limit protections placed in wilderness but also at the same time it reduces protections placed in factions as well. If you were looting a place and wanted to slowly haul that stuff to your faction over a period of time you can do so. Now this is impossible since whatever protection you place down will subtract 10 regals and that protection you will only use to haul it over. With deadbolt there was a mentality of oh look a bunch of chests time to deadbolt and in my opinion that was good. What you protected was yours without question and you could protect as much as you want and have no one else loot it. With lwc each chest locked is 10 regals and if you own a bunch of chests and move to another area you won't unlock them since there is no point to unlocking them.
Last of all with a fee for protecting blocks protecting stuff in general is discouraged. Take for example a public door, instead of protecting it you could just place down a button on it and allow buttons to be pushed, effectively saving 10 regals. With a discouraged fee some jerk could just end up protecting all your unlocked doors.
This system of pay to protect is a absolutely horrid. It discourages and punishes you just to protect stuff and handles it in a bad way. 10 regals is not a large amount but when the fee is stacked and stacked on each other it can end up becoming immensely high. If I ever want to protect my officer storage chests, door and other faction related objects I'm going to have to cop out 500 regals, effectively half my money for something that was free.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


See, there is your problem. You're protecting chest fulls of dirt and stone. Just keep them inside your border, hide them way or /f access them (if you can)
It doesn't make locking chests discouraged nor is it punishing you. It just makes you decide if "Okay, are these 10 double chest fulls of exclusively dirt more important then my money."
And again, locking chests is and always has been entirely optional. And its better to not lock every chest you see. Thats bad. Its ugly and if you leave a faction it leaves a mess for admins to clean up. its a safer, better system.
 
KSTRandom said:
See, there is your problem. You're protecting chest fulls of dirt and stone. Just keep them inside your border, hide them way or /f access them (if you can)
It doesn't make locking chests discouraged nor is it punishing you. It just makes you decide if "Okay, are these 10 double chest fulls of exclusively dirt more important then my money."
And again, locking chests is and always has been entirely optional. And its better to not lock every chest you see. Thats bad. Its ugly and if you leave a faction it leaves a mess for admins to clean up. its a safer, better system.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The thing is I want that dirt and stone since I need it for my faction. I sort out most of my stuff through chests labelled wood stone terrain etc. I want them to be mine and have no one else steal them when I promote them to officer which is made difficult by the fee. Not only that I want to limit who can open them and take stuff rather than just let everyone do so.
The thing is there is no reason to destroy protections at all when you have a tonne of chests. If you lived in a disbanded faction or a hermit home with 20 or so chests you would just leave them protected since you don't want people to steal that stuff you left behind.
The thing is even with the fee people will leave chests behind because they paid a bunch of regals to lock them and they might need that stuff they locked in the future. Some may say this will make it more realistic but the thing is in real life stealing is against the law and in massivecraft there is no law against it. Not only that but moving chests is a utter pain
This is a example which is completely possible with a fee
Some dude joins a faction
He gets rich
He locks a lot of chests
He owns 60 chests
Faction disbands
He want to move to another faction
The 600 regals he paid to lock his chests are now worthless
His 2 options are live in the ruins or find another faction and both are costly.

Having this fee will create more problems than solutions overall.
Also how does this fee not discourage you locking chests? That hard effort you put into killing mobs (that is only if you have a dark room) and potential hours of hard work have to go into simply locking a chest.
Because of this people will avoid locking beyond the first 5 to save money and they might end up loosing a tonne of their stuff to some theif. With deadbolts when you were stolen from you were told to deadbolt your stuff but now you need to get money then protect your stuff.
This fee absolutely defeats the purpose of a protection plugin. Now its a money sink that protect some of your stuff
 
Chronicler said:
๖ۣۜExactly, that is why this fee is made, to push some of that money out and away... Otherwise, I don't get the use of this post, I already know the ratio for Silver to Regals. If you could enlighten me, perhaps?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

His point was that inflation is not present on this server, and that it only seems that way because it costs 10 times more of the currency, but the same actual value.
 
X0N3333 said:
The thing is I want that dirt and stone since I need it for my faction. I sort out most of my stuff through chests labelled wood stone terrain etc. I want them to be mine and have no one else steal them when I promote them to officer which is made difficult by the fee. Not only that I want to limit who can open them and take stuff rather than just let everyone do so.
The thing is there is no reason to destroy protections at all when you have a tonne of chests. If you lived in a disbanded faction or a hermit home with 20 or so chests you would just leave them protected since you don't want people to steal that stuff you left behind.
The thing is even with the fee people will leave chests behind because they paid a bunch of regals to lock them and they might need that stuff they locked in the future. Some may say this will make it more realistic but the thing is in real life stealing is against the law and in massivecraft there is no law against it. Not only that but moving chests is a utter pain
This is a example which is completely possible with a fee
Some dude joins a faction
He gets rich
He locks a lot of chests
He owns 60 chests
Faction disbands
He want to move to another faction
The 600 regals he paid to lock his chests are now worthless
His 2 options are live in the ruins or find another faction and both are costly.

Having this fee will create more problems than solutions overall.
Also how does this fee not discourage you locking chests? That hard effort you put into killing mobs (that is only if you have a dark room) and potential hours of hard work have to go into simply locking a chest.
Because of this people will avoid locking beyond the first 5 to save money and they might end up loosing a tonne of their stuff to some theif. With deadbolts when you were stolen from you were told to deadbolt your stuff but now you need to get money then protect your stuff.
This fee absolutely defeats the purpose of a protection plugin. Now its a money sink that protect some of your stuff
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So just /f access it to yourself only. And give only yourself the power to change access levels.
The number of people complaining about the fee will go away in a month. Even you will likely drop it after a month or two and seeing how much it actually effects you. The plugin fee included still solves more problems than it creates, for example, you could still be stolen from if you were deadbolted. Deadbolt could override factions. Ect. Ect. And you could always hide your chests somewhere super secret too. Somewhere mabye only accessable by a secret portal. It just makes less locks everywhere under the sun and causes people to have to think to protect their stuff, like they would on a default server.
It doesnt defeat the purpose of the plugin. It just adds some RP to it, and some logistics to it. Now you've gotta think about what you want to lock. At the same time, how big of a problem even is thieving, so long as you put your chests somewhere safe and take off access to that chunk? If you cant trust your officers, you've got a problem. And if you are just being paranoid, that isnt reason enough to the functionality of a plugin. There are ways around using protection plugins-- ways that I've been using even before I played on Massive, because I dont like them. You've just got to be careful who you let be officer and where you put your chests, then you dont have to lock that dirt up.
 
KSTRandom said:
So just /f access it to yourself only. And give only yourself the power to change access levels.
The number of people complaining about the fee will go away in a month. Even you will likely drop it after a month or two and seeing how much it actually effects you. The plugin fee included still solves more problems than it creates, for example, you could still be stolen from if you were deadbolted. Deadbolt could override factions. Ect. Ect. And you could always hide your chests somewhere super secret too. Somewhere mabye only accessable by a secret portal. It just makes less locks everywhere under the sun and causes people to have to think to protect their stuff, like they would on a default server.
It doesnt defeat the purpose of the plugin. It just adds some RP to it, and some logistics to it. Now you've gotta think about what you want to lock. At the same time, how big of a problem even is thieving, so long as you put your chests somewhere safe and take off access to that chunk? If you cant trust your officers, you've got a problem. And if you are just being paranoid, that isnt reason enough to the functionality of a plugin. There are ways around using protection plugins-- ways that I've been using even before I played on Massive, because I dont like them. You've just got to be careful who you let be officer and where you put your chests, then you dont have to lock that dirt up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So you want me to place my chests in a place with no protections and have only me access it?
If everyone did that then wouldn't the purpose of lwc be defeated almost entirely? If you're not even locking your chests because of a fee why have it?
Also how does this locking feature add role play? How is the message "this ones on us"? involve role play?
I don't think that the amount of people complaining about this will ever drop. No other change in massivecraft has gained this much controversy and threads made about it. I have talked to about 6 people in my faction and all said either "lwc sucks" or "the fee sucks".
Also it is possible to promote someone to officer and find that they are evil or something like that, it has happened 2 times to my faction. Also I allow officers to change access levels because that's how my faction works
Also less locks under the sun is not good. Less lock
What I don't like about lwc is that they offer almost the exact same thing deadbolt does except with a fee which I think is pointless.
 
X0N3333 said:
So you want me to place my chests in a place with no protections and have only me access it?
If everyone did that then wouldn't the purpose of lwc be defeated almost entirely? If you're not even locking your chests because of a fee why have it?
Also how does this locking feature add role play? How is the message "this ones on us"? involve role play?
I don't think that the amount of people complaining about this will ever drop. No other change in massivecraft has gained this much controversy and threads made about it. I have talked to about 6 people in my faction and all said either "lwc sucks" or "the fee sucks".
Also it is possible to promote someone to officer and find that they are evil or something like that, it has happened 2 times to my faction. Also I allow officers to change access levels because that's how my faction works
Also less locks under the sun is not good. Less lock
What I don't like about lwc is that they offer almost the exact same thing deadbolt does except with a fee which I think is pointless.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The purpose of LWC is for people who cant do that/are paranoid.
And, because you have to buy locks in real life. And you're getting complimentary locks ofcourse!
also, try me. Try any PVP change that has happened. Any nerfs to swords, unarmed, axes, how about god apples? And Massive armor (both implementation and removal) This is not a special case. This is not the most controversal thing ever.
Less locks under the sun is good. It means less cluttered inactive chests. People go inactive all the time, then you have to wait 20 days to remove them. Its annoying. Its ugly. Its rude to leave locks and go inactive.
And, LWC offers something much better than deadbolt. Something that WORKS.
Do you lock your doors and windows in real life? Yes? Well, did you know that it costs money to get those locks? Same thing here. You cant just take your window with you, you know. It makes sense. It actually works. It provides a good money sink for the economy that more people will be inclined to use while it still being optional. I think the biggest problem in us understanding the others arguments is we have two different views on the protection plugin. You seem to think its entirely necessary, and I think that is entirely optional.
 
KSTRandom said:
The purpose of LWC is for people who cant do that/are paranoid.
And, because you have to buy locks in real life. And you're getting complimentary locks ofcourse!
also, try me. Try any PVP change that has happened. Any nerfs to swords, unarmed, axes, how about god apples? And Massive armor (both implementation and removal) This is not a special case. This is not the most controversal thing ever.
Less locks under the sun is good. It means less cluttered inactive chests. People go inactive all the time, then you have to wait 20 days to remove them. Its annoying. Its ugly. Its rude to leave locks and go inactive.
And, LWC offers something much better than deadbolt. Something that WORKS.
Do you lock your doors and windows in real life? Yes? Well, did you know that it costs money to get those locks? Same thing here. You cant just take your window with you, you know. It makes sense. It actually works. It provides a good money sink for the economy that more people will be inclined to use while it still being optional. I think the biggest problem in us understanding the others arguments is we have two different views on the protection plugin. You seem to think its entirely necessary, and I think that is entirely optional.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The thing is with this change is that 4 threads were created going against it and judging by the poll most people wan this gone.
Even with lwc or not people will still leave behind a chest or 2 when they go inactive.
I do know lwc and I am glad we have it as our now protection plugin but this fee configured I am not.
The thing is with these locks is that unlike real life the money that goes into it goes poof never to be seen again. Here is an example, roughly at the peak of activity on massivecraft 300 people are online. If all of these people want to protect around 5 chests past the first 5 freebies then everyone in total will pay 1500 regals. 1500 gone never to return. This makes everyone more poorer/have less money because that money is going nowhere. They say this will decrease inflation but it will do the opposite. Because everyone has to pay money to protect stuff merchants will have to raise some of their prices so they can protect their own stuff which many own a lot of. How is making everyone pay money to protect stuff going to reduce inflation?
 
X0N3333 said:
The thing is with this change is that 4 threads were created going against it and judging by the poll most people wan this gone.
Even with lwc or not people will still leave behind a chest or 2 when they go inactive.
I do know lwc and I am glad we have it as our now protection plugin but this fee configured I am not.
The thing is with these locks is that unlike real life the money that goes into it goes poof never to be seen again. Here is an example, roughly at the peak of activity on massivecraft 300 people are online. If all of these people want to protect around 5 chests past the first 5 freebies then everyone in total will pay 1500 regals. 1500 gone never to return. This makes everyone more poorer/have less money because that money is going nowhere. They say this will decrease inflation but it will do the opposite. Because everyone has to pay money to protect stuff merchants will have to raise some of their prices so they can protect their own stuff which many own a lot of. How is making everyone pay money to protect stuff going to reduce inflation?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, actually that exactly reduces inflation. Inflation is when there is too much money and everything drops in value. Thus for a little while prices will indeed go up, but that means YOUR prices go up too. While less money is being circulated about because of money being pooled out in 10r increments, more money will actually get to players because more people will be selling all the time, as well as buying. it will encourage more trade so you can lock more stuff. Thus, there will be an increase in supply. Supply means that everyone is selling tons of the same item. Which, in turn, means prices will drop. To attract business to yourself, you drop your prices and then sell more. And then the next person sells for a bit cheaper then you, and you have gas-station penny wars from the 50s-80s (somewhere in there, dont remember exactly where) and the standard becomes a relatively low price. And unlike real life, technically resources are infinite in massive. As through voting and salvage you can get diamonds infinately. As well as new worlds will be created, and full of diamonds to pluck. Like fenderfell, FULL OF 'em. So is new ceradia. And to some much lesser extent, Ithania still has some decent mining left in her. As well as things like enchanted books, infinitely renewable. Meaning, prices have no reason to go back up so long as merchants still exist for it. The current 100-200r UnbIII price I've been seeing everywhere could drop to an even 100r, just from sheer supply. Diamond blocks could go back down in price again, ect. It really will drop inflation, though many believe it doesnt exist, I think it sort of does, just from observing the economic change in Massive over the time of a month (namely, how all the prices increased by a ton between holiday break and the return to school (which thanks to snow days was roughly a month.) The increase was ridiculous. And its probably due to the premium money bonus. The server needs a good money sink, while not too large as to not completely negate the bonus, to filter some of that out.
It doesnt make everyone exponentially poorer. It really doesnt drain your wallets too much. 10 regals isnt that much money, even when stacked 10, 20, even 50 times. If you really need fast money, go to a fenderfell darkroom for a bit. The massivemobs spawn rate is much better, coupled with Fenderfells already great spawnrate, and im pretty sure the special mobs have more of a chance to drop money. I went up nearly 200 regals in 1 hour. And when the rarer ones start dropping voting level loot, it'll get even better.
And again, this isnt the first time in massivecraft history where like 4 forums were made to complain about something that was announced/implemented, nor the first time a majority of people sided with someone that was for something that sounds good, but isnt necisarrily in the best interest of the server.
 
Okay so i honestly was too lazy to read all that text walls but:
As an architect, i have a lot of stuff which has a certain value (wood, quartz, …) but is actually needed in future in order to continue building.. i also don't have spare valuable pvp items, just one set so i can't really sell some.

About the money inflation thing: well i agree that the relationship between prices and goods isn't as it should be but instead of taking money away from the community by limiting their game experience, you better stop feeding them with premium money and vote items which are certainly the most valuable...
Instead of doing that, i suggest to give premium advantages if it comes to LWCs ..
 
SaintsDemon said:
Okay so i honestly was too lazy to read all that text walls but:
As an architect, i have a lot of stuff which has a certain value (wood, quartz, …) but is actually needed in future in order to continue building.. i also don't have spare valuable pvp items, just one set so i can't really sell some.

About the money inflation thing: well i agree that the relationship between prices and goods isn't as it should be but instead of taking money away from the community by limiting their game experience, you better stop feeding them with premium money and vote items which are certainly the most valuable...
Instead of doing that, i suggest to give premium advantages if it comes to LWCs ..
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Taking away bonuses for premium and voting makes less people want to buy premium and makes NO ONE want to vote. Then the server doesnt get noticed, and less people come. Which is bad for a growing server. Stagnation means death.

And, you dont need to lock every single chest you own, just hide them or compartmentalize chests, dont organize super thoroughly, and when it comes to the fee, save up some cash and dont plan on moving your entire base of operations somewhere else before you lock down.

Money needs to be pooled out of the system. Even if voting and premium monetary bonuses stop, extra money is still going to be filtered into the system through mobs and quests and etc. A good sink like this causes money to steadily flow out. And, its not really limiting your game experiance. YOU DONT NEED TO LOCK EVERYTHING YOU OWN. Locking isnt part of the core gameplay. You dont need it. Its not even manditory to play and live on massive. I would know. I dont ever use it.
 
Man you don't need to treat me like a noob or one of these children :D
In fact, you might be right about voting system, however, it brings a lot of money - maybe too much.
About the premium features: there are enough ways to incentivize player to buy premium like giving them lwc's advantages and well, its not that i want to lock dirt and similar stuff but theres still enough that needs to be locked (also beside chests)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom