Archived Nerfing The Undead Race...

[_Dewlox_]

Title explains everything, i just think that undead having 15% damage reduction from every weapon is pretty much overpowered. I know this idea was already suggested couple of times but i want to revoke it. Undead should have 7% damage recution from weapons as orcs have 7% increased damage on all weapons (exept bows because we aren't elfs ._. ) Since undead is pretty much slightly overpowered and on top of other races, it's almost the most populiar pvp race. I don't think a lot of people will think my suggestion is good but i think people should pvp as other races too, not mostly undead.

 

[Ddafad]

SuperSaiyanWoff
Just a quick FYI: The forums log IP addresses.

 

[SuperSaiyanWoff]

Manstick has left my room to join massives so I assume they are hashing it out.

 

[KSTRandom]

Okay, so traditional methods not so effective against the undead. What about lava, potions, and other various traps that people come up with? Part of war is outsmarting your enemies. Sure, people who have worked to get awesome gear and set themselves up to have the maximum advantage in a fight have the advantage in a straight up slug fest. That doesn't mean weaken them so those who don't put the time in have an advantage, when you can just use tactics and common sense to beat these kinds of defences. How do you think people on vanilla servers beat god armor? They use potions, traps, and other devious devices and stratagems to defeat their enemies.
Now, all that aside, I do like your suggestion as that is probably the best idea for the nerf I have heard so far. So, if this does wind up being nerfed, I hope they do that. Or the lapis thing.

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Problem is, lava cant be used in enemy land. Potions take up tons of space.

 

[SuperSaiyanWoff]

Problem is, lava cant be used in enemy land. Potions take up tons of space.

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I honestly don't know how people PvP without potions. They are well worth the space in my opinion and give such a great advantage!

But If the undead gets nerfed they should get at least an offenseive boost of some kind or some kind of race specific trait thing (I'm not too sure how to explain but like how vamps can shriek! That would be pretty cool to have something similar not necessarily a shriek but you know what I mean.)

 

[Unluvable]

Don't really understand why so many people have disagreed with this suggestion. With Undead being the go to PvP race, I think it is telling that perhaps the Undead may have at least some unfair advantages over others in a PvP setting. Anything between 7-10% in regards to the damage reduction seems to be fair enough of a change.

 

[FCCarnilord]

Unluvable then again, if undead is nerfed to where much less will use it there will be "another" pvp race.
I have a "somewhat" type of example.
In tf2, there was a weapon called "The escape plan" which made you run faster based upon how much damage you took. Most used class specific weapon in the game. Then, an update was released which made it to you took even 35% more damage for holding the thing out. It sort of ruined its purposes for escaping on one end, as well as literally thousands of people no longer used it, including myself, due to its past convenience. Now, lots of people use the "market gardener" instead. What it really seemed to do was have most people switch from one weapon to the next, decreasing the use of one and increasing the use of another.
What I am attempting to say is if undead is "nerfed" to which much less will use it, most likely only another used will be used just as much.

 

[SuperSaiyanWoff]

Unluvable then again, if undead is nerfed to where much less will use it there will be "another" pvp race.
I have a "somewhat" type of example.
In tf2, there was a weapon called "The escape plan" which made you run faster based upon how much damage you took. Most used class specific weapon in the game. Then, an update was released which made it to you took even 35% more damage for holding the thing out. It sort of ruined its purposes for escaping on one end, as well as literally thousands of people no longer used it, including myself, due to its past convenience. Now, lots of people use the "market gardener" instead. What it really seemed to do was have most people switch from one weapon to the next, decreasing the use of one and increasing the use of another.
What I am attempting to say is if undead is "nerfed" to which much less will use it, most likely only another used will be used just as much.

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I agree completely to this. Regardless of what happens there will always be a new OP race due to nerfing this or that.

But like I said previously if undead gets like a 10% defense instead of 15% due to nerfing the race, I say they should add something like a cry like a vamps shriek or give them maybe a 3% attack bonus with a weapon or something along those lines. That way the defense would be down and the attack would rise a little but not much.

By the way it is all tied up at 15 votes across! haha that's awesome. It shows that it makes a great discussion.

 

[Unluvable]

Toxiclord SuperSaiyanWoff

Although those are all very valid arguments that need to be kept in mind, there is such thing as a balance. Just because we nerf one race does not necessarily mean everyone will stampede towards another race. Your examples are basically marked by just really poor thought out balancing -- however, well thought out balance is something that we like to strive for on this server.

My ideal setting is such that the races plug-in (and eventually the traits plug-in) will reach a delicate and elusive balance in which people will choose their races based on a mix of PvP playstyle and lore flavor. No race has any significant enough benefit where one will think, "Damn, I really like being Maiar, but just to compete, I'll have to be an Undead or else be at a crushing disadvantage."

The point is to eliminate any unfair disadvantages so that people will not make their race decision solely based on this factor. Is this balance difficult to achieve? Yes. Impossible? Far from. People will always gravitate towards certain races over others, but we want this to be because of play style (i.e. they will choose Dwarves because they focus on an Axe centric fighting style) or lore flavor (i.e. One might just downright love being a Naga).

Regardless, I do think the races plug-in is due for a major overhaul. I hope the traits plug-in gets some love in the eventual future... I was really stoked about that when it was announced.

 

[Magivore]

Toxiclord SuperSaiyanWoff

Although those are all very valid arguments that need to be kept in mind, there is such thing as a balance. Just because we nerf one race does not necessarily mean everyone will stampede towards another race. Your examples are basically marked by just really poor thought out balancing... something that we like to strive for on this server.

My ideal setting is such that the races plug-in (and eventually the traits plug-in) will reach a delicate and elusive balance in which people will choose their races based on a mix of PvP playstyle and lore flavor. No race has any significant enough benefit where one will think, "Damn, I really like being Maiar, but just to compete, I'll have to be an Undead or else be at a crushing disadvantage."

The point is to eliminate any unfair disadvantages so that people will not make their race decision solely based on this factor. Is this balance difficult to achieve? Yes. Impossible? Far from. People will always gravitate towards certain races over others, but we want this to be because of play style (i.e. they will choose Dwarves because they focus on an Axe centric fighting style) or lore flavor (i.e. One might just downright love being a Naga).

Regardless, I do think the races plug-in is due for a major overhaul. I hope the traits plug-in gets some love in the eventual future... I was really stoked about that when it was announced.

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๖ۣۜWell, I think what is mainly to focus on is that it certainly is hard. I feel like this suggestion is a bit of waste of time, considering that the staff are already working on it, only with other races and McMMo as well. If I am correct, they are making the undead more resistant to make PVP last longer, but in a pinch, will have an extreme weakness to lapis, sort of like the wooden stake concept with Vampyres. Do not quote me on that though, as I am only predicting and chatting up from previous rumour I heard.
I see where this is coming from, knowing as I downright love being a Naga and that I use it's poison perk to help make witches a helpful trap, but since everything is already starting to get thrown into testing and creation, I think this idea really isn't needed because it's already being dealt with.