Archived Nerfing The Undead Race...

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Title explains everything, i just think that undead having 15% damage reduction from every weapon is pretty much overpowered. I know this idea was already suggested couple of times but i want to revoke it. Undead should have 7% damage recution from weapons as orcs have 7% increased damage on all weapons (exept bows because we aren't elfs ._. ) Since undead is pretty much slightly overpowered and on top of other races, it's almost the most populiar pvp race. I don't think a lot of people will think my suggestion is good but i think people should pvp as other races too, not mostly undead.
 
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Aira1 said:
Blaze H, you are acting childish by doing this nonsense. You might want to stop before your actions dug hole for you.
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dude chill out... i disagreed and you dont like it. it was my opinion and you "crying" about it is what is childish.
 
Can this thread be locked? I think the answer to it is pretty obvious.
 
Blaze H, again. Stop. Jesus...
 
lmao now he is going back on EVERYONE of my old post in a locked thread and rating it lmfao, look at me caring.
 
It's called "giving my opinion" about it. ;) And you with your friend did gave me 30 negative raitings on single thread. >_>
 
Even more? How childish.
 
Thalan79 said:
It may seem to be really high, but I think its a good amount of damage reduction. What they should do to nerf it is add in some other negatives. Like maybe share a weakness with vampires to holy water, or take damage from being around lapis. (As I understand it, Undead are bodies held together by a person's spirit and connection to the veil, meaning lapis should hurt them. I think.)
All in all, I think the people who come across the issue of Premium undead most of the time are not High Teir Pvpers in the first place (I admit, this is a generalization. Feel free to prove me wrong.) If people are trained in both their Mcskills and their tactical thinking, this bonus isn't that high.
Regardless, even though I don't like the nerf you suggested, it is a fairer downgrade than what I expected when I saw the title of the thread. So, if this does get implemented I would be fine with it, but I would rather it either stay the same, or have some other negative.
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30% is a lot. 88-96% is what you get from god armor. Slap on another 30%. You have 118%-126% reduction
 
I'm going to take matters into my own hands and give Blaze H and squirtlex94 warnings for what they are doing. If you disagree and the thread is open, please give a reason as to why you disagree, not just spam the disagree rating and when asked why come back with the simplest of answers "I disagree." That is not helpful at all. Also, you only have to rate the original post, not every single one that person makes on the thread.
 
KSTRandom said:
30% is a lot. 88-96% is what you get from god armor. Slap on another 30%. You have 118%-126% reduction
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That is a lot of damage reduction, but then again people have so far managed to cope with it. We are not ruled by undead, so it cannot be that bad...
Jokes aside, just because something is hard to kill doesn't mean auto-nerf. I get that the damage reduction is a fair amount, however there are ways around it. Potions are a good start, but not a complete answer. And Mcmmo skills won't solve this problem by themselves either. There are cannons and traps, but those only do so much. It would take a combination of all of these to counter the bonuses that undead premiums in god armor get, in addition to a decent tactical mind.
Admittedly, that's not easy for everyone. For some people that must seem impossibly hard, and that's fine. However, should this really get nerfed because of everyone has adapted, or is willing to adapt to it?
Regardless of your answers (thats to anyone, not just who I am quoting), it's not going to overly affect me, due to being naga. I just think that its one thing that should be left alone. But that's just me, and everyone is allowed their opinion on what they feel is too strong or too weak.
 
Everyone disagreeing with this post is completely wrong. Clearly undead is the OP race. When almost every PvPer uses it, it shows that it's the dominant race. You may not want it changed, but it is still the best and most OP.
 
McMuffin55 said:
Everyone disagreeing with this post is completely wrong. Clearly undead is the OP race. When almost every PvPer uses it, it shows that it's the dominant race. You may not want it changed, but it is still the best and most OP.
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Agreed. It just doesn't seem that people want to lose an OP race.
 
Aira1 said:
If you think that undead balance the game then you are wrong.
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That's already a problem about this reply.
I think the undead are perfectly fine, 15% is almost not even noticable, considering you still take a lot of damage when in PVP. With all of these races doing increased damage, being an undead balances that out, and even if it may seem unfair, it makes the damage back to normal and maybe defend against 7%.
(Not serious with words below)
If undead is so OP with it's defense, why not nerf the damage that Tigran's do with bare fist? They can deal about 9-10 damage per hit if with higher level unarmed, and can disarm opponents, get more strength increasal from potion in comparison to weapons, no worry about durability.
(Not serious with words above)
The undead Cancels out such perks like 15% MORE damage, making this back to "Vanilla" resistance and fighting style. The undead also do not have extra resistance to potions, fall damage, and lava. This makes other things in the game just as effective, and you can still deal more damage to the undead if armed well. Then again, whenever in PVP, you must be armed well to survive.
 
If you are saying that undead race is totaly balanced, then think again. I was pvp'ing versus two people at the same time today. Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won. They basicly did 0 bonus race damage. They literaly did -7% because of my race. Basicly it's impossible to do any bonus race damage to undead. It's protected from literaly every weapon including fists. Take your time and think about it again. AND. Do some pvp. You will know why i suggested this.
 
Aira1 said:
If you are saying that undead race is totaly balanced, then think again. I was pvp'ing versus two people at the same time today. Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won. They basicly did 0 bonus race damage. They literaly did -7% because of my race. Basicly it's impossible to do any bonus race damage to undead. It's protected from literaly every weapon including fists. Take your time and think about it again. AND. Do some pvp. You will know why i suggested this.
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๖ۣۜI do sort of agree with your suggestion, but only to an extent, really. They are quite OP at the moment within my own opinion, but that will be changed when the races are modified and adjusted. There actually are some ways it is best to kill another race when you are different.

Dakkar is pretty simple, have a trap of lava for the non-Dakkar, and if the Dakkar swim through, have another trap that drowns them or crushed them. Not only does it incinerate the Dakkar, but it also suffocates the Fire-Resistance potions.

Naga, you can just run up to the enemy and poison them, no matter what. Undead don't have resistance from potions, so they choke and become ill very fast whilst you just swallow up the potion. If you are stranded inside a house, wooden/iron doors and windows don't stop the range of poison. Just throw it at the door and if they are close enough, they'll get splashed.

Undead killing an undead is pretty basic. Just haul ass into the arena and hope you have better armour, weapons and aim than them.

As I said, although I agree with your saying of Undead being OP, I won't support having it weakened because I am pretty sure they are going to be terrifyingly weakened pretty soon anyways.
 
Chronicler said:
๖ۣۜI do sort of agree with your suggestion, but only to an extent, really. They are quite OP at the moment within my own opinion, but that will be changed when the races are modified and adjusted. There actually are some ways it is best to kill another race when you are different.

Dakkar is pretty simple, have a trap of lava for the non-Dakkar, and if the Dakkar swim through, have another trap that drowns them or crushed them. Not only does it incinerate the Dakkar, but it also suffocates the Fire-Resistance potions.

Naga, you can just run up to the enemy and poison them, no matter what. Undead don't have resistance from potions, so they choke and become ill very fast whilst you just swallow up the potion. If you are stranded inside a house, wooden/iron doors and windows don't stop the range of poison. Just throw it at the door and if they are close enough, they'll get splashed.

Undead killing an undead is pretty basic. Just haul ass into the arena and hope you have better armour, weapons and aim than them.

As I said, although I agree with your saying of Undead being OP, I won't support having it weakened because I am pretty sure they are going to be terrifyingly weakened pretty soon anyways.
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They will be? I wasn't aware of that, mind telling me about it? Because it could literaly change the whole thing.
 
Aira1 said:
They will be? I wasn't aware of that, mind telling me about it? Because it could literaly change the whole thing.
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๖ۣۜI believe someone said above about it...

Lapis Lazuli I am pretty sure is going to adjust holy water and will actually have an effect similar to Vampyres, only it hurts like hell. However, I also heard the undead will have 30% resistance instead.
But considering the Lapis could one-shot them, it seems pretty alright to me.

Otherwise, I know little about the races getting the updates and changes. I believe MonMarty had a thread talking about what he and the staff, along with Cayorion, plan to do.
 
I was slightly aware about the lapis. But i don't think it would be used a lot in pvp. Eather no one will carry around lapis or undead race will be dead.
 
Aira1 said:
If you are saying that undead race is totaly balanced, then think again. I was pvp'ing versus two people at the same time today. Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won. They basicly did 0 bonus race damage. They literaly did -7% because of my race. Basicly it's impossible to do any bonus race damage to undead. It's protected from literaly every weapon including fists. Take your time and think about it again. AND. Do some pvp. You will know why i suggested this.
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That's why you won. If they had surprised you, or hit you from afar, or done something involving tactics then you may have lost. You also did not account for skills in acrobatics which can stop incoming damage if high enough. There is also such thing as luck, which determines some of the bonuses when they happen with axes.
Also, you could stand to drop the condescension out of your typing. It's kinda annoying, but whatever. That's your call on whether you want people to take you seriously, or think you're just insulting them because they disagree with you.
As for the lapis, I really hope that becomes a thing because it would make it more worthwhile to have it. Though would it be restricted to the ore, the lapis, the blocks? Or would the bonuses extend to tinted windows and dyed wool and leather armor?
 
Aira1 said:
If you are saying that undead race is totaly balanced, then think again. I was pvp'ing versus two people at the same time today. Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won. They basicly did 0 bonus race damage. They literaly did -7% because of my race. Basicly it's impossible to do any bonus race damage to undead. It's protected from literaly every weapon including fists. Take your time and think about it again. AND. Do some pvp. You will know why i suggested this.
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There is already an assumption about me in there.
I do PVP. I HAVE PVP'd on Massivecraft before. Including other servers with resistances like such.
I look at the stats from getting hit from mobs and sometimes even players.
I know why you suggested this, it's simple... You wish for it to be nerfed because to you it seems unbalanced. C'mon dude, seriously. I'm not an unaware person... Also, just because someone may have more Mcmmo than you do, does not mean they will win. It's more of just a perk you have, as well as depending upon how good you are at PVP determines the outcome of who wins, and who is most prepared.
 
Thalan79 said:
That's why you won. If they had surprised you, or hit you from afar, or done something involving tactics then you may have lost. You also did not account for skills in acrobatics which can stop incoming damage if high enough. There is also such thing as luck, which determines some of the bonuses when they happen with axes.
Also, you could stand to drop the condescension out of your typing. It's kinda annoying, but whatever. That's your call on whether you want people to take you seriously, or think you're just insulting them because they disagree with you.
As for the lapis, I really hope that becomes a thing because it would make it more worthwhile to have it. Though would it be restricted to the ore, the lapis, the blocks? Or would the bonuses extend to tinted windows and dyed wool and leather armor?
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I have 700+ acrobatics and they do 1k+. They both had god gear as i did.
 
Toxiclord said:
There is already an assumption about me in there.
I do PVP. I HAVE PVP'd on Massivecraft before. Including other servers with resistances like such.
I look at the stats from getting hit from mobs and sometimes even players.
I know why you suggested this, it's simple... You wish for it to be nerfed because to you it seems unbalanced. C'mon dude, seriously. I'm not an unaware person... Also, just because someone may have more Mcmmo than you do, does not mean they will win. It's more of just a perk you have, as well as depending upon how good you are at PVP determines the outcome of who wins, and who is most prepared.
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It's not about MCMMO here... And i have no idea what your stats are at the first place. The thing is you don't look like you have been pvping for while and know that undead race is OP. Even one of the best massive's pvpers said the same...
 
Aira1 said:
It's not about MCMMO here... And i have no idea what your stats are at the first place. The thing is you don't look like you have been pvping for while and know that undead race is OP. Even one of the best massive's pvpers said the same...
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So anyone who says that they feel the undead are not OP are not PvPers? Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't PvP. And just because one specific person agrees with you doesn't automatically make you right in an debate of opinions, regardless of their credentials. And seeing how MCMMO is apart of PvP, which is the reason that you are calling them OP, that makes it apart of the conversation here.
 
Aira1 said:
It's not about MCMMO here... And i have no idea what your stats are at the first place. The thing is you don't look like you have been pvping for while and know that undead race is OP. Even one of the best massive's pvpers said the same...
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I am truly sorry to say this, but the amount of assumptions you have made to players like me seems to be too much.
Just because he agrees, doesn't mean what he says is true.
Basically what you are using as logic is- If it's by someone very well known in that area, it's true, what they agree to.
"Don't look like I PVP often"
/Seen Toxiclord_933
I've been undead since Month 8 of that seen. By the way, there isn't such thing as "Knowing" it is overpowered when you have enough people to disagree that is noticable and as well as it being an opinion.
 
Toxiclord said:
I am truly sorry to say this, but the amount of assumptions you have made to players like me seems to be too much.
Just because he agrees, doesn't mean what he says is true.
Basically what you are using as logic is- If it's by someone very well known in that area, it's true, what they agree to.
"Don't look like I PVP often"
/Seen Toxiclord_933
I've been undead since Month 8 of that seen. By the way, there isn't such thing as "Knowing" it is overpowered when you have enough people to disagree that is noticable and as well as it being an opinion.
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I believe the whole race bonus thing is overpowered honestly... Combined with MCMMO that is, if it was just the racial bonus, it wouldn't be AS bad and the issues would be a lot easier to solve. If something's wrong, then just fix the thing that's wrong with the race alone.
 
Spartan said:
I'm going to take matters into my own hands and give Blaze H and squirtlex94 warnings for what they are doing. If you disagree and the thread is open, please give a reason as to why you disagree, not just spam the disagree rating and when asked why come back with the simplest of answers "I disagree." That is not helpful at all. Also, you only have to rate the original post, not every single one that person makes on the thread.
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Did you warn him for doing the same to me...two wrongs dont make a right , he also went on my old post and rated them all, as i said two wrongs, and i will give a simple answer if i want you dont run my life i dont have to explain in a big explanation why i disagree, did you see i agreed with others, they already post arguments i would make...why do yall have this rating system if i cant use it and why do yall take it so F'in serious, its a game and a forum, calm down. edit: also one of my post was rated evil, its not evil, does he get a warning? thats called rating abuse, and what you are doing is called abuse of power, i bet you was picked on/get picked on as a child.
 
Aira1 said:
It's not about MCMMO here... And i have no idea what your stats are at the first place. The thing is you don't look like you have been pvping for while and know that undead race is OP. Even one of the best massive's pvpers said the same...
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๖ۣۜYou posted a weakness here.
1.
Not all, not many, not a few.
1.
There are plenty of players disagreeing, including my brother and I, that the current resistances do not matter all that much. He certainly has been PVPing for a while on Massive, he just doesn't use McMMo.
Plus, you mentioned the use of McMMo in the earlier posts.
If it didn't matter, why bring it up?
Aira1 said:
Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won.
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McMMo still isn't a factor, huh? Yet you still added it in?

Plus, 7%? That is quite devastating if someone does 100% damage to you at once. A mere 7 damage being removed. That still leaves you taking 93% damage. Imagine they dealt a pretty powerful 10 damage. Alright, now negate 80% of it by un-enchanted diamond armour. Now they only deal 2 damage. Now get 7% of 2 damage.
Not that much removed, is it?

But otherwise, no. You just had stronger weapons or better armour, even better fighting technique than them. Even laggy hitboxes can be a factor.

Now that I am running some of the numbers, I am starting to think the Undead are not very OP.
 
McMuffin55 said:
Everyone disagreeing with this post is completely wrong. Clearly undead is the OP race. When almost every PvPer uses it, it shows that it's the dominant race. You may not want it changed, but it is still the best and most OP.
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It is not OP regardless of what you say muffin. It is balanced. I don't want it to change for the fact of keeping the game balanced.
Aira1 said:
If you are saying that undead race is totaly balanced, then think again. I was pvp'ing versus two people at the same time today. Me being undead and them being orcs. One of them had 2000+ axes level, other one used sword and had 1000+. None of us did anything exept hiting. Guess who won. They basicly did 0 bonus race damage. They literaly did -7% because of my race. Basicly it's impossible to do any bonus race damage to undead. It's protected from literaly every weapon including fists. Take your time and think about it again. AND. Do some pvp. You will know why i suggested this.
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Being an Orc is PvP is weak against ANY race not just undead being as they only do 7% rather than 15. Had you faught a dwarf been a dwarf you would've done the same damage to damage taken ratio except instead of tanking you would have be dealing.

It is balanced. 15%-15%=O which is balance.

fighting orces makes it an 8% difference. Lesson learned, don't be an orc...they suck a PvP plain and simple.
 
SuperSaiyanWoff said:
fighting orces makes it an 8% difference. Lesson learned, don't be an orc...they suck a PvP plain and simple.
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๖ۣۜPersonally, I agree with all except this part...
Orc is actually very good if one has a majority of PVP skill in swords AND axes. It helps them boost no matter which weapon they use. Not much, but it's better than nothing.
 
Aira1 I think you are just doing this for the Orc races sake, in my opinion. As you can see, many other people have been giving really good examples... and all you have replied with is "I disagree, they do not balance" (This is NOT meant to insult you, nor is it flaming. I am sorry if I offended you in any way, but that is just MY opinion)
 
Thalan79 said:
So anyone who says that they feel the undead are not OP are not PvPers? Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't PvP. And just because one specific person agrees with you doesn't automatically make you right in an debate of opinions, regardless of their credentials. And seeing how MCMMO is apart of PvP, which is the reason that you are calling them OP, that makes it apart of the conversation here.
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I didn't ment that... but the nerfing of race is mostly about pvp. Since it doesn't effect people that don't rp...
 
Lol. Should we rename the thread Buffing the Orc Race?
Sorry, I couldn't resist the chance to make a joke. Still, perhaps the Orcs need more dakka?
 
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