Archived *how To Bring Pvp Back To Massivecraft*

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thor5648

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This thread is a few of my ideas that I have seen over the past 3+ years I have played on MassiveCraft. I have thought about them carefully and am stating what I have seen to spike PvP on the server when they were around. I believe that in doing all these, we will see more than 1-3 raids a week among the "High Level PvP Community" (Meaning the people who have god gear and potions) and we will actually start to see more new players, meaning more premium, meaning more room for improvement on MassiveCraft. :D

1. Modify PvP traits. Many traits cause people to stay alive way too long, and can make someone essentially never die. Removing these traits would actually cause there to be more diversity among traits, without having a single "OP damage loadout"
  • Remove all strike and revenge traits for melee weapons, possibly keep strikes for bows.
  • Remove Resistant and Expert traits, or limit us to having only one expert or one resistant
  • Remove Absorption Trait
2. Modify Voting. Voting has no real benefits for pvpers anymore, and maybe it has some for rpers I am not too sure. One thing I remember seeing working was when everyone had to vote to get the latest gear to be able to pvp, Massive Armor. Massive Armor made everyone vote every day on all the sites, it was a good idea as it spiked the player base up on average of about 50 players at any given time.
  • Re enable something like Massive Armor, for both the Rp community and PvP community, something that forces the players to vote to be able to do better at their activity. While this seems cruel, it will actually bring way more players to the server.
  • List MassiveCraft under more categories on the websites. For example put it under Roleplay, PvP, Faction PvP, Survival, Factions.
3. Hoppers. Hoppers are an essential part to PvP, and really should come back I made a thread about this seen here: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/regular-hopper-world.33846/
  • Re enable hoppers in at least one world.
  • Hoppers are essential to pvp, since they have been disabled coincidence or not, PvP has dropped off the charts even more.
4. Check out Serious Saveks awesome thread. It has nothing to do with this but helps towards making more PvP!! https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/call-for-old-and-new-pvpers.34292/
 
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Something has to be done and all the points seem valid to me. Lets bring the playerbase back to 300 daily!
 
Traits are fine as they are, i see no reason to remove them as they make the PvP different from other servers, you actually have to think before you go to battle and make your own strategy on how you're going to play your class. i would actually be happy to see MORE traits!

i agree with the Voting part, voting has nothing beneficial for players anymore that has a tiny bit of regals, making somthing that will benefit your player style would drag more attention.

for the hopper part? no... i would rather like to brew for hand than having a increase of server lag, the number of lag that have dropped since they disabled hoppers is insane, i do not know how much lag they're causing but i rather have better server latency than having an auto brewer.
 
I will address these points in the order of which you have put them.?
1. Traits. I feel no inherent issues with this as such, and working as a team in fights where each person has different roles can mitigate everything you're saying. If you're worried about strikes, run immunes. Each trait build has a counter. Stop using the same trait builds for months on end and expecting people not to work around them. What you're effectively saying here is that you can't counter someone using a different weapon or a strike trait.

2. Voting. This one I actually agree with, but only partially. MassiveArmour is something, personally, I think should be left dead. It was removed for a reason. Maybe there should be the ability to get God Weapons, Protection / Sharpness books, Potion materials, etc. Which would encourage people to actually get into PvP as more people would have the relevant gear.

3. Hoppers. I've actually been on your side of this argument for a long, long time. However, after speaking to GetHelp about the amount of server lag these cause, and seeing it firsthand, I have to say I disagree. If you think you can't brew pots en masse, you're sadly mistaken as I point you toward our full potion storage. I would rather have lower server lag and having to hand brew potions than have autobrewers that screw over the TPS of the worlds.

4. More PvPers. Yes. I agree. 100%. We need a larger community, as the PvP playerbase is dying at a rate I never would have deemed imaginable.

As a final note here, MassiveMobs should never have been re implemented. They cause a whole bunch of FPS issues; making it spike uncontrollably and they don't despawn during the day, further increasing the inconvenience of them, give less vanilla EXP which makes darkrooming much harder, and the regal drop rate has been reduced, stopping aspiring PvPers from getting the funds to buy multiple sets of armour and weapons, which are essential in PvP. I know some people like them, but for the people who spend more time than anyone fighting them, they are a waste of time and actually make the server less enjoyable overall.
 
I personally agree with everything here. I personally think that the "expert & resistant" traits should be restricted. but what are your thoughts on the "inept" traits?




Also you spelled Sevak's name wrong...
 
1) The PvP Think Tank discussed traits in great detail and the running conclusion was, I think, to alter them into Micropercentages so they have less an effect on PvP. And I kinda like my swordexpert... :P
2) Eh. Don't like the idea of people getting powerful weapons or armor just by voting. There should be some kind of effort involved. Maybe have voting rewards include raw resources, like 6 diamond blocks, and xp (like, 15xp points as a common item) so that people still have to work and can't be guaranteed anything OP with a certain number of votes. I do like the part about more categories. MassiveCraft is so much more than just a faction survival or roleplay server.
3) Hoppers were removed because they caused large amounts of lag. I highly doubt they will be returned to their former state. I believe there is/was a GUI in the works for potion production, making hoppers obsolete. Now, if you PvPers would shut up about lag maybe they'd return your precious hoppers... :P
4) More PvPers. Meh. I neither like nor dislike the idea of more flaming clickers on the server. (j/k) There could be more, but only if people are willing to make getting into the PvP community easier and less completely on fire.
 
I personally don't think traits will ever be removed, nor will strike traits by themselves. I've suggested this numerous times on the forums and in the think-tank and it hasn't really gone far. Instead, I think a better compromise would be to change all traits to micro-values that affect pvp, but don't completely ruin it. They'd be just small little bonuses, and would only be 2-5% dmg increase/reduction, keeping the pvp a bit less erratic.
 
spoonly said:
hey guys it's me
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You impersonator!

But great thread Thor. I agree with all of your points, my faction has been running out of health pots every raid recently and no one wants to sit around and brew for an hour a day to upkeep a faction with potions. I'm honestly fine with traits because it seems like everyone uses a similar tank build anyways but no traits would most likely be easier for newer pvpers to jump right in
 
Sevak said:
You impersonator!

But great thread Thor. I agree with all of your points, my faction has been running out of health pots every raid recently and no one wants to sit around and brew for an hour a day to upkeep a faction with potions. I'm honestly fine with traits because it seems like everyone uses a similar tank build anyways but no traits would most likely be easier for newer pvpers to jump right in
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So this is how its really looking... But let me tell it with an example...

I work at McDonalds... and customers complain that the food isnt a high enough quality. Well for a higher quality, prices need to go up. THEN they complain about the prices are too high. Thats basically whats happening here. Complain about the lag? they slow down hoppers. Complain about the hopper speed? sure lets speed it up, but get ready to see some more lag. Its just a back and forth situation in my opinion.
 
znake1468 said:
So this is how its really looking... But let me tell it with an example...

I work at McDonalds... and customers complain that the food isnt a high enough quality. Well for a higher quality, prices need to go up. THEN they complain about the prices are too high. Thats basically whats happening here. Complain about the lag? they slow down hoppers. Complain about the hopper speed? sure lets speed it up, but get ready to see some more lag. Its just a back and forth situation in my opinion.
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Yeah, the food there is crap. Wendy's is much better.

But what I was going to say was that @znake1468 is indeed correct. The point he makes is very true.
Hopper Speed Increase = Lag
Lag = Bad PvP, and Hopper Speed Decrease
 
@thor5648 I like all your ideas; however, I believe that absorption and experts/resistances should remain as traits and remove all other traits. Also, with the experts/resistances, use your idea of only being able to use one expert and one resistance or just one of either category.

Another idea I want to put out there is that there should be a form of overclaiming brought back onto the server. There should be a certain amount of chunks given to a faction based on their population. These chunks cannot be overclaimed. These chunks could be half or two thirds of the factions claim power, and the other half or third could be land that can be overclaimed by other factions. The way this land would work would be that if the enemy faction is in it for a long enough time, then the land is unclaimed and becomes wilderness or the land is unclaimed and becomes enemy faction territory. People may see this as an issue, but it can be tweaked in a way that gives the faction being raided an incentive to defend.
 
DarShauwn said:
Another idea I want to put out there is that there should be a form of overclaiming brought back onto the server. There should be a certain amount of chunks given to a faction based on their population. These chunks cannot be overclaimed. These chunks could be half or two thirds of the factions claim power, and the other half or third could be land that can be overclaimed by other factions. The way this land would work would be that if the enemy faction is in it for a long enough time, then the land is unclaimed and becomes wilderness or the land is unclaimed and becomes enemy faction territory. People may see this as an issue, but it can be tweaked in a way that gives the faction being raided an incentive to defend.
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Absolutely not. One of the reasons a lot of people play on this server is because Massivecraft doesn't allow overclaiming.
 
feiooos said:
You guys love speaking the same thing over and over again... Just be patient, Massive will adapt sooner or later.
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We keep saying the same thing over and over because at some point, for some reason, something might actually change. It won't matter if it happens sooner or later if there's no pvpers left on the server to benefit from the change.
 
And can we please fix the potion drinking glitch at kit pvp? Please? It's been around how many months now? Having no pearls and no way to drink your potions when someone is hitting you can be really frustrating. :/
 
65jes89 said:
We keep saying the same thing over and over because at some point, for some reason, something might actually change. It won't matter if it happens sooner or later if there's no pvpers left on the server to benefit from the change.
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Have you seen how kitpvp has been very active? And the amount of new pvpers showing up there, allies asking eachother for pvp mentors... I really think pvpers numbers have been increasing, they're just not veterans yet.

Do you know who Alamut had to fight before Magnanimus? One veteran faction, if I remember correctly, or one at a time. All the others were garb and easily raidable. Exactly like today, there is side A and side B, then you have all the newcomers who will eventually become more powerful. Trust me there will always be pvpers around.
 
Gonna break your post up....

DarShauwn said:
@thor5648 I like all your ideas; however, I believe that absorption and experts/resistances should remain as traits and remove all other traits. Also, with the experts/resistances, use your idea of only being able to use one expert and one resistance or just one of either category.
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Why? That would make traits exclusively PvP, which they are NOT meant to be. And most PvPers want PvP traits removed so that they can go back to MCMMO tanking.

DarShauwn said:
Another idea I want to put out there is that there should be a form of overclaiming brought back onto the server. There should be a certain amount of chunks given to a faction based on their population. These chunks cannot be overclaimed. These chunks could be half or two thirds of the factions claim power, and the other half or third could be land that can be overclaimed by other factions. The way this land would work would be that if the enemy faction is in it for a long enough time, then the land is unclaimed and becomes wilderness or the land is unclaimed and becomes enemy faction territory. People may see this as an issue, but it can be tweaked in a way that gives the faction being raided an incentive to defend.
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No. I would leave. Most of the server would leave. This would be especially bad because trolls or griefers could time their raids to when MassiveRestore runs through, causing entire parts of a faction to unclaim and be reset just to hurt people. Theives could use this to steal large quantaties of resources from factions. In the end the only effect would be for nobody to claim more than what can't be warclaimed/unclaimed which would entirely defeat the purpose.

65jes89 said:
We keep saying the same thing over and over because at some point, for some reason, something might actually change. It won't matter if it happens sooner or later if there's no pvpers left on the server to benefit from the change.
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Complaining more won't speed Cayorion's fingers up on the keyboard, if anything it'll distract him and other staff from actually making this shit happen.

HeartAched said:
I honestly don't think suggesting ideas is getting us anywhere... nothing has really changed and there's been months of suggestions to the pvp aspect of the server.
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You certainly have no optimism. I mean honestly, HOW LONG did it take Cay to code Traits? What about the MassiveLag plugin? Or, really, any plugin he ever created? The answer: months. And that's even without emergencies getting in the way, like when he got hurt or when 210 attacked the server. Be Patient. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are MassiveCraft's plugins.
 
@Mecharic I'm talking about getting more PvP on the server. What's been done to help that? There really hasn't been an increase in months (coming from someone who PVPs the same people every single day.)
 
HeartAched said:
I honestly don't think suggesting ideas is getting us anywhere... nothing has really changed and there's been months of suggestions to the pvp aspect of the server.
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Right now I only see one problem with PvP on Massive. There are plenty of fighters now and as you know because you have been there some of the recent raids have been pretty epic. There was a 7v7 raid at my faction BlackFlag yesterday which was later followed by a 6v12 at Sunkiss just a few hours later. There's tons of PvP brewing we just keep running into one very big problem that's throwing a wrench in the gears.

Of course the issue that I speak of is the inability for large PvP facs like Deldrimor to maintain there potion supplies. It's pretty annoying when you're 2 hours into a huge raid and everyones still wanting to fight and one side runs out of pots and just has to quit fighting for the day.

Now there are a few possible fixes for this.

1. Be like me and be very DIY. I've never been big on using autobrewers I've always preffered to do it by hand. The way I generally do it is I will take 1 day a month and brew for 4 or so hours to completely stock us up on everything. This works for me because my fac has few active PvPers so maintaining a supply isn't too hard and 4 hours a month will last us that whole month. For larger facs with more people I would recommend having 1 person brew every day. Alternate the job between each person so nobody gets fatigued having to brew all the time.

2. Seeing as PvP is making a comeback and the economy is still pretty hard to make an impact on I don't see why people haven't stepped up and created potion making businesses. For those of you out there trying to make regals but have no clue where to start I guarantee that if you offer this service you will make good money. Last I saw even the easiest of potions to make can net you 50r a doublechest and if you have the right setup that doesn't take very long to make at all. Think about it you brew just 20DC a day and you'll be making 1k regals a day. Calculate that over a months time and you can make 30k regals a month. That's a lot of regals. It of course won't all be profit as you have to spend money to make money unless you go full DIY like I do but you will still make a hefty profit. This will not only help you make money and an impact on the economy it will also create a money sink where these ultra rich PvP factions will have to spread their wealth around to maintain their day to day runnings. This all around is good for the economy.

3. Now this option I'm not really fond of and IMO kinda goes against the servers normal ways of running things but another possible solution would be to create a server run potion shop where you could trade the raw ingredients for the potions for an instant return of potions. We could also make a small regal fee as well to somewhat discourage the use of said store but still make it a viable option for factions that don't feel like they can maintain their own supply. Now honestly I don't know enough about running a server to say if this is even possible but if it is maybe it's something that could be considered. Also this shop would only offer standard vanilla potions so people who maxed Alchemy wouldn't feel like they wasted their time. It's not too hard to maintain a steady supply of mcmmo pots anyway especially if all other pots could be obtained instantly.

4. Find a way to bring back autobrewers. There's gotta be a way to make it work and I think if staff put some time into finding a solution how to bring them back without causing too much lag they could do it. Other servers manage to pull it off so I don't see why it's not possible on Massive.

I'm sure there are other options for fixing this problem too but I mean all I'm trying to say is this is a problem that can be fixed and I honestly believe once it does PvP will explode on this server and all those of us wanting to fight will get what we've been wishing for.
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
4. Find a way to bring back autobrewers. There's gotta be a way to make it work and I think if staff put some time into finding a solution how to bring them back without causing too much lag they could do it. Other servers manage to pull it off so I don't see why it's not possible on Massive.
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I'm just gonna go ahead and state that there is an auto-brewer option that doesn't require any hoppers aside from the one beneath the only brewing stand used to make it. Though, here's the major drawback to it, it takes a stupid amount of time to figure out how to time the droppers properly, and since it takes that stupid amount of time, the final thing looks rather messy and might take up a lot of redstone wiring. Due to how much time it takes to make properly, I haven't messed with it too much, so I can't say that I really know how to make it properly.
 
HeartAched said:
@Mecharic I'm talking about getting more PvP on the server. What's been done to help that? There really hasn't been an increase in months (coming from someone who PVPs the same people every single day.)
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1) They have made changes over time, but if you look at their record for changes in general it takes a long time to put it through and enact it.
2) They can't magic plugins up to bring PvPers to the server and I've seen no "here's a not-plugin-based way to bring PvPers in that doesn't demand a loss of existing plugins" posts yet - all suggestions ask for changes to plugins which take time or for plugins to be removed which they are very much against. Case in point, this suggestion asks that massivemobs be removed and traits be restructured.

With regards to potions, it's been suggested that Cay creates a potion GUI to remove the need for autobrewers.
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
Right now I only see one problem with PvP on Massive. There are plenty of fighters now and as you know because you have been there some of the recent raids have been pretty epic. There was a 7v7 raid at my faction BlackFlag yesterday which was later followed by a 6v12 at Sunkiss just a few hours later. There's tons of PvP brewing we just keep running into one very big problem that's throwing a wrench in the gears.

Of course the issue that I speak of is the inability for large PvP facs like Deldrimor to maintain there potion supplies. It's pretty annoying when you're 2 hours into a huge raid and everyones still wanting to fight and one side runs out of pots and just has to quit fighting for the day.

Now there are a few possible fixes for this.

1. Be like me and be very DIY. I've never been big on using autobrewers I've always preffered to do it by hand. The way I generally do it is I will take 1 day a month and brew for 4 or so hours to completely stock us up on everything. This works for me because my fac has few active PvPers so maintaining a supply isn't too hard and 4 hours a month will last us that whole month. For larger facs with more people I would recommend having 1 person brew every day. Alternate the job between each person so nobody gets fatigued having to brew all the time.

2. Seeing as PvP is making a comeback and the economy is still pretty hard to make an impact on I don't see why people haven't stepped up and created potion making businesses. For those of you out there trying to make regals but have no clue where to start I guarantee that if you offer this service you will make good money. Last I saw even the easiest of potions to make can net you 50r a doublechest and if you have the right setup that doesn't take very long to make at all. Think about it you brew just 20DC a day and you'll be making 1k regals a day. Calculate that over a months time and you can make 30k regals a month. That's a lot of regals. It of course won't all be profit as you have to spend money to make money unless you go full DIY like I do but you will still make a hefty profit. This will not only help you make money and an impact on the economy it will also create a money sink where these ultra rich PvP factions will have to spread their wealth around to maintain their day to day runnings. This all around is good for the economy.

3. Now this option I'm not really fond of and IMO kinda goes against the servers normal ways of running things but another possible solution would be to create a server run potion shop where you could trade the raw ingredients for the potions for an instant return of potions. We could also make a small regal fee as well to somewhat discourage the use of said store but still make it a viable option for factions that don't feel like they can maintain their own supply. Now honestly I don't know enough about running a server to say if this is even possible but if it is maybe it's something that could be considered. Also this shop would only offer standard vanilla potions so people who maxed Alchemy wouldn't feel like they wasted their time. It's not too hard to maintain a steady supply of mcmmo pots anyway especially if all other pots could be obtained instantly.

4. Find a way to bring back autobrewers. There's gotta be a way to make it work and I think if staff put some time into finding a solution how to bring them back without causing too much lag they could do it. Other servers manage to pull it off so I don't see why it's not possible on Massive.

I'm sure there are other options for fixing this problem too but I mean all I'm trying to say is this is a problem that can be fixed and I honestly believe once it does PvP will explode on this server and all those of us wanting to fight will get what we've been wishing for.
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In Deldrimor we have dubs and dubs of pots before raids and end up having to postpone to brew more, or cancel the raid completely. I rarely use Deldrimor's pots as I have my own potion room and brewers. It's easy to produce tons... But we are always busy.
 
I love how everyone's complaining about potion supplies and running out of their potion stocks and we're just sat here on ~80 dubs of health pots which we brewed yesterday...
Maybe it's not the server which needs to adapt wholly. Maybe the player base needs to change with the server. Sure, Massive isn't perfect, far from it, but just expecting everything to change back for us is unreasonable. We need to adapt as the server does too. If we can brew as many potions as we used to with auto Brewers, with the new system, surely it can't be that hard? Sure, we're delving into everyone's resources, but they're not something we can't replace.
I agree that I prefer autobrewers. I preferred PvP "way back when". But this is how things are now. Adaption is needed from both sides in order to progress.
 
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