Archived Factions Moving Forward

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Sevak

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Before I wrote this introduction, I showed the contents of this post to my friend @jquaile. His response was basically that there was no point in me even trying, and that nothing is going to change no matter how much I write and how well the players react to it. I thought about that for a bit and I realized, at this point there's been hundreds of threads, and thousands of comments with good ideas and criticism. Yet, there hasn't been much done with them, and PvP has only declined. The purpose of this post isn't to have another 5 page discussion. We've already done that. This is a compilation of the opinions of most members of the PvP community. This is what we're suggesting.

I'm not sure how long it's been since my last giant essay regarding Massivecraft PvP. Maybe two months? All I know is since then, I've been on maybe 5 raids on Massive. 0 of which have been enjoyable for me. That's because they were all in the same spot. Solarian. I've done nothing but defend Solarian's tower from @Ieso and co. Each time it's the same people on each side. The same people get kills, the same people die repeatedly (me), no one wins or loses. I can't even remember the last time I fought at a base that wasn't owned by a big PvP faction.

So why am I writing another post? Because despite the amount of players who supported and agreed with my last one, nothing has changed. The only things even set in motion were the removal of mcmmo pots? Maybe? Haven't heard any updates about that. And the server war, which was very loosely adapted from my idea and seems like it's heading in the direction of another hand held event where we tell the other side "there's about to be a fight at this location!" and we all tp to the destination and fight each other! Oh boy.

I'm sorry, maybe there's lots of effort being put in behind the scenes to make necessary changes. I wouldn't know. But I'm going to speak my mind, and put what I do know on the table.

Now before I get a response where I'm told that there are big plans in the works and I'm ungrateful for all the hard work staff have been putting in, let me say this. I have been incredibly patient. But the PvP community as a whole is running out of patience. Over the past two years I've seen friend after friend quit playing on the server, completely giving up on a fun factions experience ever making a return. If there's ever going to be PvP on the server, action needs to be taken while there's still any amount of hope.

So here's my list of suggestions.

PvP mechanics
  • McMMO pots have to go. But before this can be done, we have to guarantee that PvP can be balanced without them. The damage output has to be altered to counteract the loss of absorption and health boost. This is one we've pretty much all agreed on and most remaining pvpers would be happy to help test damage output.
  • No magic in PvP. I don't know exactly what magic is yet, and until I find out, it's a huge NO, in my book. Traits were controversial. Vampires were controversial. I believe it was @BenRekt who made the pizza analogy about massive PvP. To summarize, the analogy was that massivecraft was good as a plain pizza, but too many plugins/toppings were added that made people dislike it. Based on speculation, and this isn't an opinion unique to me,, Magic is the equivalent of ordering a pizza with chocolate ice cream as the topping.
  • Remove the ability to pick up dropped weapons from unarmed. This isn't as big a deal as it used to be. But I feel like lots of newer players are driven away from PvP when they've lost their weapon 3 seconds into a fight. Another thing where I just can't see a reason why it SHOULD exist...
The Economy
  • I honestly can't comprehend why this was rejected. In a situation regarding how much people spend, of course the general population will want to spend less. But this isn't about what people want. Something like this is about what the server needs. If you want a successful server economy, material surplus has to be contained. A player can basically repair a full set of armor for 5 regals if you have 1k repairs. Increase the amount of diamonds used in iron block repairing as suggested here https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/nerfing-mcmmo-repair.54665/
  • Some way to get rid of God gear. I don't have any ideas for this one but would love to hear suggestions and discuss it.
Factions Worlds
  • Increase the time between massive restores to 3-6 months. The worlds will not become cluttered with disgusting grief in 1 month, there's no point in having it run as often as it does.
  • This suggestion isn't the most popular, but I still believe factions should only be able to have one claim. Obviously this isn't practical since we can't force factions to unclaim their land. Maybe land claimed that isn't connected to the f home of a faction could have doubled taxes? This will not only build community within factions, but it will also give more meaning to the factions f home. It becomes a place where a majority of members live and interact. Making it something that must be protected in some way.
  • Decrease each individual's power to 10-20, decreasing the amount each player can claim. This way a 3 man faction cannot own a city.
  • Massivemobs removal in a few worlds again, doesn't seem like much to ask for due to the amount of people complaining about them.
Faction Interaction
  • Is there any new information on Empires? Any sort of ETA or update would be amazing.
  • Forming alliances for defending/raiding. The EA (Enigma, Tyberia, Afrovia Alliance) was a fantastic idea. This was a real alliance. Some backstory for those who don't know what this was. The EA was a group of 3 factions, each one not too strong on their own, that joined together to help each other with raids. Combined they were a threat. Working together is the best way to grow a faction, this idea should be encouraged more.
Faction Lore
  • My idea for a server war was probably the idea that drew the most support from the community. And then the proposal ended up being exactly what I wanted to avoid. Yes, it could work in some aspects, and maybe the idea presented by Kaezir could be fun. But it's not at all what I was thinking. Sorry. After speaking with @Dakar and @Tokuu I realized I'm not the only PvPer who felt this way, so I'm going to bring it up now. The point of the server war I proposed was that there would be an overarching storyline to the world of factions. There would be two major sides in the war, and factions that wanted to involve themselves would align with a side in some way. The only staff involvement I wanted in this was that maybe they could help write posts and encourage more factions to join the war. The point of this idea is to include more factions into the story over time as it grows in interest. It's about including new people. It's not about hosting big events and recording the winners. I'm hoping my new explanation here is better than my previous one.
Encouragement
  • This is kind of a broad topic that relates to my server war idea. But encouraging players to play survival has a lot to do with excitement and the hype of a big war. In June 2015, my faction, Wolves, declared an open rebellion against the tyranny of Magnanimus. I remember when we announced ourselves as a force against Mag on that night, general chat was being spammed by people supporting each side. It was exciting. And it may have not been the best war but we had some good raids and it had meaning to it because it felt like we were raiding for a cause. Faction announcements are more important than we all think.
  • Now here's something that has bothered me forever. The fact that there are more people discussing the future of PvP on the forums, than there are actual PvPers playing on the server. I encourage everyone now, if you want to see change, stop with the chatter, make your own faction and start playing.
 
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Sevak and Toku are honestly the only smart people who suggest
 
Nekoii
Deldrimor
Mr. Sevak
May 10th 2017
My Analysis of "Factions Moving Forward"
It has come to my attention that it leaves Sevak in distraught when I don't thoroughly read his forum posts, so as a response, I am writing an analysis on his post in MLA format, with my opinion on the matter. I agree that MCMMO pots have to be taken out, me being slightly on the dim side, I don't have much brain capacity to keep track of all of my potions. So absorption and health boost would greatly make my PVP experience hella more enjoyable. Also, I won't have to brew anymore. I also agree with @/Benrekt's "pizza analysis," PVP currently is like Hawaiian pizza, when ham and pineapple is thrown on a pizza it turns 210% less delicious. Massivecraft's economy is like the interwar period of World War II, (I'm studying it in school), we're like the whole world in the Great Depression, and someone needs to stand up and be the Franklin D. Roosevelt and sign that thing that made more jobs available in America. I also believe that factions needs to band up like the super empire that Germany/Hitler made in World War II, because when we all join together we can conquer Europe together too.
 
There are inherent flaws in this. Magic's goal is to provide a new type of PvPer, one that uses different mechanics to manipulate combat and the field of play. This is likely to draw in a different variety of player, such as myself, who find the clicking-spam that Massive PvP is known for rather distasteful. It will allow people to play support roles to their team, from what I've gathered. Environmental manipulation. Direct damage (which is something that there needs to be very little of IMO). Other stuff like that. Increase the variety and potential for PvP, get more PvPers.

This suggestion isn't the most popular, but I still believe factions should only be able to have one claim. Obviously this isn't practical since we can't force factions to unclaim their land. Maybe land claimed that isn't connected to the f home of a faction could have doubled taxes? This will not only build community within factions, but it will also give more meaning to the factions f home. It becomes a place where a majority of members live and interact. Making it something that must be protected in some way.
Looking from the outside, this seems like a golden idea. I used to dabble in Factions when I was a young'n, and as a child this angered me. "Why can't I have Daendroque and x y z location???" All that jazz. Logically though, it forces factions to have an actual base of operations.

I encourage everyone now, if you want to see change, stop with the chatter, make your own faction and start playing.
I'm rather a hypocrite. I play For Honor, a rather broken game, but love it anyway. I refuse to play Massivecraft PvP because I see it as broken. Now that that's out of the way: I think a good way to bring more people in is to have big events like you've said, but also add variation to PvP. I find no fun in spam clicking. I see myself a more tactical mind in PvP based games. I'm the Engineer, the Symmetra, the Warlord. Those are primarily support and environmental manipulation roles. That's what I believe Massivecraft PvP is lacking. Variety is the spice of life, and we have a very bland dish tonight. Magic is going to work on fixing that. But I see a good way to bring more players in is to find a way to further expand that. Give people a reason to wear lower tier gear (buffs, passive potion affects, stuff like that), take the weapons and make them even more unique. Maybe gold armor increase healing rate. Perhaps Axes are good against shields, but can also be used to smash through iron armor. Hoes are fast and weak but can cause non-stacking bleed damage? Variety. Give people more ways to play and you bring in more players.

EDIT: Ignore the stupid minor details of my suggestions in the final paragraph and get the key point, most importantly. Variety, my ilk. Variety is what will aid Massivecraft PvP. Mages, archers, spear-men, swordsmen, bulwarks, rogues, and variety.
 
I'm going to provide my feedback as someone who prefers to casually PvP, but is discouraged from even considering to do regular survival PvP.

I think its a safe thing to note that all of my PvP experiences bar one have been at koth. I half ass PvP there, yes. But I think I've played enough rounds to give my own feedback on some of the issues I as a "casual PvPer" face that may not have been brought up. I also have to thank everyone who does play koth that have given me a lot of the research that I'll be using to give my opinions.

Firstly, I've come to the conclusion that you have to have full god armor to even think of PvPing. Unless you have prot 4 on everything, you're basically dead in 4 hits. As a casual player who actual has zero god armor sets now, I don't have the resources to get geared up and PvP. (I will take the time to note that I do have 50k in my faction. No I don't factor that into any of my finances as that is essentially used to fund any of my RP purchases in Regalia, and to upkeep a vault. If you want to see what I spend on a daily basis, check my balance on my account. It's less than 3k.)

I feel that the current "meta" of PvP here is geared around max mcmmo stats and god weapons and gear. Which in my opinion, isn't that balanced and benefits the veteran players more than newer ones, who start off with generic iron armor. Yes veterans need love as well (especially now) but we also need to make PvP more accessible for newcomers or the more casual players.

which brings me on to another point:
  • All mcmmo combat traits have got to go. In my opinion, mcmmo combat traits are like MassiveTraits, broken. Axes, Swords, and Archery are all gimmicks that were fine back in the day, but haven't adapted to the game, just kinda sitting there riding on the seniority. I have almost max stats on everything, and I don't really see that big of a change. I'd rather see these combat traits removed, so that there might be some more equalizing ground for new and old players.
  • One 1.9 feature could replace mcmmo. Alright, better explain myself before I shoot myself in the foot. Swords in 1.9 gained the aoe effect, and 1.11 gave an enchant to increase the damage done by that. Massive disabled it, for reasons I don't remember (feel free to remind me.) I think if mcmmo was removed and the sweeping damage was enabled for swords, it might provide some variety in PvP.
    • What do I mean by variety? For starters, most PvP fights I've seen in koth utilize axes and nothing else. Ok, mcmmo is disabled in koth, but axes still are the go to weapon for whatever reason. Swords don't get a lot of love, even though they have good benefits as well, albeit not being that major. I think by giving swords sweeping edge damage again, it might lead to some better variety, such as maybe using a shield in the offhand to counter swords, and then using axes to counter shields. A triangle of power instead of just "go with axe its better." Give some choice in what weapons a casual PvPer could use to hold their ground, and It might encourage people to PvP and experiment with different fighting styles, maybe giving some life.
That's honestly all I could think of at the time. I think mcmmo is terrible for PvP going forward and shouldn't be used in factoring damage values for weapons. Sweeping edge would allow swords to provide an alternative fighting style, which could lead to some variety in weaponry instead of 5 people hitting each other with axes.

That's basically all I can think of right now. Hope it helps
 
There are inherent flaws in this. Magic's goal is to provide a new type of PvPer, one that uses different mechanics to manipulate combat and the field of play. This is likely to draw in a different variety of player, such as myself, who find the clicking-spam that Massive PvP is known for rather distasteful. It will allow people to play support roles to their team, from what I've gathered. Environmental manipulation. Direct damage (which is something that there needs to be very little of IMO). Other stuff like that. Increase the variety and potential for PvP, get more PvPers.


Looking from the outside, this seems like a golden idea. I used to dabble in Factions when I was a young'n, and as a child this angered me. "Why can't I have Daendroque and x y z location???" All that jazz. Logically though, it forces factions to have an actual base of operations.


I'm rather a hypocrite. I play For Honor, a rather broken game, but love it anyway. I refuse to play Massivecraft PvP because I see it as broken. Now that that's out of the way: I think a good way to bring more people in is to have big events like you've said, but also add variation to PvP. I find no fun in spam clicking. I see myself a more tactical mind in PvP based games. I'm the Engineer, the Symmetra, the Warlord. Those are primarily support and environmental manipulation roles. That's what I believe Massivecraft PvP is lacking. Variety is the spice of life, and we have a very bland dish tonight. Magic is going to work on fixing that. But I see a good way to bring more players in is to find a way to further expand that. Give people a reason to wear lower tier gear (buffs, passive potion affects, stuff like that), take the weapons and make them even more unique. Maybe gold armor increase healing rate. Perhaps Axes are good against shields, but can also be used to smash through iron armor. Hoes are fast and weak but can cause non-stacking bleed damage? Variety. Give people more ways to play and you bring in more players.

EDIT: Ignore the stupid minor details of my suggestions in the final paragraph and get the key point, most importantly. Variety, my ilk. Variety is what will aid Massivecraft PvP. Mages, archers, spear-men, swordsmen, bulwarks, rogues, and variety.
Pizza analogy. All I'm gonna say
 
I'd rather see these combat traits removed, so that there might be some more equalizing ground for new and old players.
This is a really big thing as well, as I'm someone that does not PvP. The knowledge that everyone out ranks my McMMO stats drives me away, as it tells me that I either A, have to spend hours smacking zombies in a dark room, or B, die a lot in PvP. It turns me (at least) off and away from PvP.

Pizza analogy. All I'm gonna say
Yes, and what makes a basic pizza even better? Layers. There is no depth to Massivecraft PvP. Click, strafe, pot, click, strafe, pot. Adding a layer or two onto that pizza will give us more cheese (content), and more flavor (different scenarios to consider and work with).
 
This is a really big thing as well, as I'm someone that does not PvP. The knowledge that everyone out ranks my McMMO stats drives me away, as it tells me that I either A, have to spend hours smacking zombies in a dark room, or B, die a lot in PvP. It turns me (at least) off and away from PvP.


Yes, and what makes a basic pizza even better? Layers. There is no depth to Massivecraft PvP. Click, strafe, pot, click, strafe, pot. Adding a layer or two onto that pizza will give us more cheese (content), and more flavor (different scenarios to consider and work with).
do you like hawaiian pizza
 
Okay well majority of society doesn't like ham and pineapple on their pizzas. just like majority of pvp'ers don't like or want traits and magic thrown onto pvp
You aren't seeing my point that I've tried to make very clear then. There is no variety in Massivecraft PvP. No variety means you get one kind of player, which means you drive away all the other kinds of players. More players means bigger factions and bigger battles, which means more chaotic clicky time fun.
 
You aren't seeing my point that I've tried to make very clear then. There is no variety in Massivecraft PvP. No variety means you get one kind of player, which means you drive away all the other kinds of players. More players means bigger factions and bigger battles, which means more chaotic clicky time fun.
I'm all for variety. But not if it drives away the people that have been dedicated to PvP for years, to include a few people that do like that kind of stuff
 
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No but seriously

+1 on this thread. As usual @Sevak you hit all the good points. Lets just hope this one goes somewhere and at least some if it ends up becoming a reality
 
Sevak and Toku are honestly the only smart people who suggest
:(

  • All mcmmo combat traits have got to go. In my opinion, mcmmo combat traits are like MassiveTraits, broken. Axes, Swords, and Archery are all gimmicks that were fine back in the day, but haven't adapted to the game, just kinda sitting there riding on the seniority. I have almost max stats on everything, and I don't really see that big of a change. I'd rather see these combat traits removed, so that there might be some more equalizing ground for new and old players.
  • One 1.9 feature could replace mcmmo. Alright, better explain myself before I shoot myself in the foot. Swords in 1.9 gained the aoe effect, and 1.11 gave an enchant to increase the damage done by that. Massive disabled it, for reasons I don't remember (feel free to remind me.) I think if mcmmo was removed and the sweeping damage was enabled for swords, it might provide some variety in PvP.
    • What do I mean by variety? For starters, most PvP fights I've seen in koth utilize axes and nothing else. Ok, mcmmo is disabled in koth, but axes still are the go to weapon for whatever reason. Swords don't get a lot of love, even though they have good benefits as well, albeit not being that major. I think by giving swords sweeping edge damage again, it might lead to some better variety, such as maybe using a shield in the offhand to counter swords, and then using axes to counter shields. A triangle of power instead of just "go with axe its better." Give some choice in what weapons a casual PvPer could use to hold their ground, and It might encourage people to PvP and experiment with different fighting styles, maybe giving some life.
Actually, disabling mcmmo and enabling sweeping edge would be pretty bad since we don't have a hit cooldown. Sweeping edge would be like a permanent skullsplitter effect, which would be unbalanced and make swords significantly better than axes. The only reason axes are more used is because most pvpers have higher axes than swords, and therefore longer skullsplitt than serrated strikes. Other than that it's really personal preference; axes and swords are in reality the most balanced they've ever been. also shields will never be a thing due to the shitty way mojang implemented them. Even in vanilla 1.9 pvp they're pretty shit imo.

I do agree that mcmmo in PvP should go, however.

I honestly can't comprehend why this was rejected. In a situation regarding how much people spend, of course the general population will want to spend less. But this isn't about what people want. Something like this is about what the server needs. If you want a successful server economy, material surplus has to be contained. A player can basically repair a full set of armor for 5 regals if you have 1k repairs. Increase the amount of diamonds used in iron block repairing as suggested here https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/nerfing-mcmmo-repair.54665/
Yeah. This. I'm not really sure what went into the decision to let the general community decide on a balancing change, but that's almost never a good idea in terms of game balancing... I considered writing an entire post about this, but school and whatever, so I'll do a quick one here.

The fact that a balancing change having to do with the economy needs to get general approval from the player base at large is absurd. I don't care if 95% of the player base disagrees with a balancing change in terms of the economy, it doesn't make the change incorrect or otherwise non-beneficial to server health, particularly when it's in the nature that repair is. The survey in itself was absurdly biased. As I remember, it was literally just a yes or no question phrased something along the lines of "do you think repair should be nerfed." There was no mention of how it should be nerfed, what was wrong with it, or even saying what repair is. And frankly, I'd guess that there's a lot of people who don't even know what repair is. Of the people who do know what repair is, I'd guess that the majority of them have no idea how many diamonds it takes to repair god armor at level 1000. Most of the people who currently have 1000 repair are either rich/play the server a lot, or grinded it years ago before the armor durability buffs (Massive Armor durability is 3x the vanilla amount for anyone who doesn't know). In contrast, most of the people who gave their opinion in the thread in question had 1000 repair, or at least understood the implications of the current repair system.

The fact that /fix was instead offered to be nerfed was honestly just rubbing salt in the wound while simultaneously showing the ignorance of most people who participated in the poll. Currently /fix costs 1r per 2% fixed, or 50r for an item to be repaired from 0 to 100%. This is currently about half of the price of god armor. Frankly, I think this is more than fair; it's a pretty major money sink, especially considering there are options which are literally an order of magnitude cheaper, i.e. mcmmo repair. Repair takes about 2ish stacks to grind to 1000 if you do it all at once (might be a bit off because I grinded repair 3ish years ago), which is about 800r. For the benefit of the doubt, we'll say it takes 3 stacks; that's 1200r. 1200r equates to 24 50r sets. That means you can get 1000 repair levels for 24 pieces of fixed god armor plus a couple hours watching netflix while afking on top of a cactus. After this initial investment of about 1200r (you can obtain this in 6 days by literally just voting and doing job island) you get to repair your armor for 3-4 diamonds, which is worth about the same number of regals. Using my fancy (complete garbage) excel skills, we can compare price of each method to the number of armor pieces repaired.

w5f9oPP.png

Here, the blue trendline represents the price of mcmmo repair; the orange/red trendline represents the price of /fix. As you can see, they intersect at ~26 (26.08) sets. After this point, mcmmo repair is extraordinarily cheaper than /fix. At 4r a piece, you save 46 regals every single time you repair a piece of armor from 0 to 100%. By the time you repair a double chest of god armor (for reference, I have ~75 sets of god armor, or about 6 double chests), you've spent ~216 regals (the price of half a set of god armor) and saved 2484 regals, double the price of what it took you to grind repair.

If that doesn't show the ignorance that the playerbase of which the poll and subsequent balancing decision was based off of, I don't know what does.

@Omnomivore
 
There are inherent flaws in this. Magic's goal is to provide a new type of PvPer, one that uses different mechanics to manipulate combat and the field of play. This is likely to draw in a different variety of player, such as myself, who find the clicking-spam that Massive PvP is known for rather distasteful. It will allow people to play support roles to their team, from what I've gathered. Environmental manipulation. Direct damage (which is something that there needs to be very little of IMO). Other stuff like that. Increase the variety and potential for PvP, get more PvPers.
Support roles, most pvpers are for. Overpowered mages running around trapping people in blocks, to be crit out in a 5v1, not so much.
 
I'm all for variety. But not if it drives away the people that have been dedicated to PvP for years, to include a few people that do like that kind of stuff
Support roles, most pvpers are for. Overpowered mages running around trapping people in blocks, to be crit out in a 5v1, not so much.
Ofc. See my first post, I make it clear that anything that's damaging or OP is stupid. But building a wall, creating a dome, flooding an area, igniting an area, change an area's block composition, etc etc. All interesting stuff that would keep everyone on their toes and reacting.
 
Back to the beginning the reason that so many people Pvped on massive was for the unique pvp that you could not get anywhere else the traits the pots, massive pvp is dying because we lost that unique aspect in the pvp and it is just Pvp like you can get on any other server. I do not believe that massive magic should be involved in pvp but i also do not believe that we should limit it all the way to vanilla, if you want pvp to live you have to have something to draw people in and keep hem interested, i personally enjoy mcmmo, i think it should be buffed but not removed, Massive is becoming a RP server, and they are beginning to have no aspect that makes them better than any other server except their rp and their community. in the end i amnot saying to add back traits or anything as such, but find something that is unique to keep people looking at the server and thinking "Oh i wanna try that kind of pvp"
 
Pots can go. I don't see why there need to be so many. Strength and swiftness is well enough to keep up with.

Magic is unfortunately coming regardless. After implementation, feel free to start making calls on it. This I actually don't appreciate, trying to shut it down before it's even been released. Change ain't gonna happen if you just shut things down before trying. History isn't a good way to judge. Because history shows, as with traits. Races went, traits came. People wanted races back. Traits got mega nerfed instead per request and people wanted them back. We brought some back and people still want more back. It's important to try and take into account not just PvP, but every aspect of the server. We can't just pander to one audience. If RPers had their way, there would be peaceful factions or a peaceful world. That's the way a community works. Some people hate things, other people love them. Some people need it, other people don't even think about it.

I kind of like the idea of a shop where you can turn in god pieces for tokens and then those tokens for lore items or something. Unfortunately the repair survey ended incredibly lukewarm with no clear lead on what you guys actually want.

I personally don't mind upping restore to 3 months but 4-6 is waaaay too long. I can already hear all the tickets for manually restoring land. Limiting to one claim is a bit harsh. It makes sense, I am not disagreeing with you on it, just. It just wouldn't feel right with all the worlds we have. However I do disagree with lowering player faction power. Especially if you want to limit claims.

My original stance stays on the server war. I'd love to write a long long long story about factions taking sides and multiple posts detailing events of the war. But quite frankly, with no set times or any clear way to determine winners, it'll stay the same as it is now. Sides fighting back and forth, never surrendering, never giving ground. Just continual fighting or not fighting. There has to be some form of staff moderation. And considering how little there is detailed in my server war post, you're gonna need to expand on how exactly we can keep track and how we can determine winners in another way.

EDIT: Read FireFan's post. I am personally of the opinion that removing combat MCMMO traits would also be beneficial. No grind=more people willing to try. Plus there's also that no need to immediately grind up unarmed to prevent yourself from having your weapon taken.
 
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Ofc. See my first post, I make it clear that anything that's damaging or OP is stupid. But building a wall, creating a dome, flooding an area, igniting an area, change an area's block composition, etc etc. All interesting stuff that would keep everyone on their toes and reacting.
Building a wall I don't really see a purpose in tbh. Creating a dome will just get really annoying really quickly. Flooding an area probably won't be a thing because of lag/grief, but even if it was it'd just be annoying. Igniting an area is pointless, pvpers use fire resistance potions already. Changing a block composition doesn't really sound like it has any pvp uses to me.

I understand that those are just generalizations, but my point is, anything outside of a basic support class that can give stuff like regen is going to be either stupidly useless or stupidly overpowered. I don't want to turn this into a magic debate thread, so I'll drop it after this, but my point is that none of us are holding our breath about how great magic is going to be, and I especially don't see it as some near-future salvation for Massive pvp.
 
Ofc. See my first post, I make it clear that anything that's damaging or OP is stupid. But building a wall, creating a dome, flooding an area, igniting an area, change an area's block composition, etc etc. All interesting stuff that would keep everyone on their toes and reacting.
you like hawaiian pizza and you're a trump supporter???
 
Unfortunately the repair survey ended incredibly lukewarm with no clear lead on what you guys actually want.
Could we see the data for the survey? Because I honestly can't imagine how it could possibly be determined that repair isn't wanted in a non-biased way based around the survey which was submitted. There was no indication of what was wrong with repair, leading questions about whether said person actually has 1k repair or not, etc. I mean, if I was asked if something should be nerfed and had no idea what it was, I'd probably default to no, and I think that goes for most people. On the flip-side, almost all of the feedback on the repair thread, where a substantial number of people actually had 1k repair, was in favor of the nerfing of repair.

That along with the points made in my earlier post leaves me pretty clueless as to why it's been decided a nerf is not needed.
 
the building of walls
Much original such joke. Lmao. Am enlightened.

Building a wall I don't really see a purpose in tbh. Creating a dome will just get really annoying really quickly. Flooding an area probably won't be a thing because of lag/grief, but even if it was it'd just be annoying. Igniting an area is pointless, pvpers use fire resistance potions already. Changing a block composition doesn't really sound like it has any pvp uses to me.

I understand that those are just generalizations, but my point is, anything outside of a basic support class that can give stuff like regen is going to be either stupidly useless or stupidly overpowered. I don't want to turn this into a magic debate thread, so I'll drop it after this, but my point is that none of us are holding our breath about how great magic is going to be, and I especially don't see it as some near-future salvation for Massive pvp.
And yeah, it appears the environment manipulation I want and the buffing PvP needs from a support class will both be entertaining. From what we've seen anyway.
 
I would 100% join survival just to be a road builder NGL. If only restore didnt wipe away the roads ;o;
 
EDIT: Read FireFan's post. I am personally of the opinion that removing combat MCMMO traits would also be beneficial. No grind=more people willing to try. Plus there's also that no need to immediately grind up unarmed to prevent yourself from having your weapon taken.
The reason I actually like MCMMO is because of the axe/sword variety as well as the abilities. You don't really need anything besides unarmed and someone with alchemy to PvP at a high level now
 
I'm the Engineer, the Symmetra

I feel like the Symmetra thing kinda just takes away everything you said about yourself. Symmettra is even more spammy then how spammy you think massive PvP is. Hold down left click = Win as Symmettra ;)

This didn't contribute anything to this post but I didn't feel like getting in an argument with you again and getting this thread locked so I just said this :3
 
The reason I actually like MCMMO is because of the axe/sword variety as well as the abilities. You don't really need anything besides unarmed and someone with alchemy to PvP at a high level now
At that, I think mainly the issue would be Unarmed TBH. Iv played on... more.... HUGE Factions servers before, pre-my RP days, and Unarmed was, and I assume on Massive still is, stupidly good.

Punch someone a bunch, they suddenly have no sword and cant fight back unless they brought a back up.... which can also be disarmed.
 
His response was basically that there was no point in me even trying, and that nothing is going to change no matter how much I write and how well the players react to it. I thought about that for a bit and I realized, at this point there's been hundreds of threads, and thousands of comments with good ideas and criticism. Yet, there hasn't been much done with them, and PvP has only declined.

I feel like you're literally in the exact position as I was a year ago, when I was constantly making Idea threads to try and improve PvP. You remember that, this isn't anything new.

https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/encouraging-pvpers-to-rp-and-vice-versa.37947/

Remember that thread? I've asked about Silveredge every once and while and been told there hasn't really been enough man power to build and finish the world, but don't worry, Regalia has been rebuilt several times over in the time since the idea was suggested.

The Economy
  • I honestly can't comprehend why this was rejected. In a situation regarding how much people spend, of course the general population will want to spend less. But this isn't about what people want. Something like this is about what the server needs. If you want a successful server economy, material surplus has to be contained. A player can basically repair a full set of armor for 5 regals if you have 1k repairs. Increase the amount of diamonds used in iron block repairing as suggested here https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/nerfing-mcmmo-repair.54665/
  • More to come...

Meanwhile, you have balance related threads like these that were apparently decided by player input. Of course the majority of players want to keep repairing OP as hell, it makes the game easier. Balancing is not about what players want, it is about what is best for the server. In case staff haven't noticed, the people advocating for nerfing repair are the players who actually have 1k repair and would be the most hurt by a change like this, but despite that, they still can see why it would be a beneficial change.

.https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/nerfing-mcmmo-repair.54665/

Not to mention I literally called the decline in the survival economy 2 years ago, but was laughed at by a bunch of Roleplayers and Staff members for supposedly having no clue what I was talking about. Apparently lore items are now the only thing worth being sold, since god armor and weapons are mass produced and we should just accept that we are absolutely helpless to do anything about it, unless we want to straight up dumb all of our gear into a lava pool.

https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/thoughts-on-a-better-economy.29209/

Don't really have anything else to add to the rest of your post, beside the fact that I completely agree with it.




This I actually don't appreciate, trying to shut it down before it's even been released. Change ain't gonna happen if you just shut things down before trying. History isn't a good way to judge. Because history shows, as with traits. Races went, traits came. People wanted races back.

You know I have a lot of respect for you, but I have to disagree. First of all, with almost every plug-in that has been implemented in the survival worlds, there has always been a completely disregard for properly balancing or running tests of plug-ins. People didn't hate traits simply because it was different than races. They hated it because it clearly was not properly tested in the slightest. People were literally being killed in one hit because traits was just thrust onto the server before being tested. I believe that the initial broken implementation of traits single-handedly did the most damage to the survival community. Not even just because of glitched damage, but because of blatantly over powered traits, such as haste 2, where people could now insta-mine permanently, further ruining the price of survival goods. The exact same thing happened with the "Advanced Anti-Cheat" plug-in where people were consistently being kicked and temp banned from the server because the plug-in was faulty and was not tested. I know we should keep an open mind, but when you can consistently see any lack of proper testing or balancing before implementation, I think a certain level of caution is warranted. Especially if MassiveMagic is as 'game changing' as has been advertised.

EDIT: Read FireFan's post. I am personally of the opinion that removing combat MCMMO traits would also be beneficial. No grind=more people willing to try. Plus there's also that no need to immediately grind up unarmed to prevent yourself from having your weapon taken.

+1
 
Faction Lore
  • My idea for a server war was probably the idea that drew the most support from the community. And then the proposal ended up being exactly what I wanted to avoid. Yes, it could work in some aspects, and maybe the idea presented by Kaezir could be fun. But it's not at all what I was thinking. Sorry. After speaking with @Dakar and @Tokuu I realized I'm not the only PvPer who felt this way, so I'm going to bring it up now. The point of the server war I proposed was that there would be an overarching storyline to the world of factions. There would be two major sides in the war, and factions that wanted to involve themselves would align with a side in some way. The only staff involvement I wanted in this was that maybe they could help write posts and encourage more factions to join the war. The point of this idea is to include more factions into the story over time as it grows in interest. It's about including new people. It's not about hosting big events and recording the winners. I'm hoping my new explanation here is better than my previous one.

https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/encouraging-pvpers-to-rp-and-vice-versa.37947/
 
Remember that thread? I've asked about Silveredge every once and while and been told there hasn't really been enough man power to build and finish the world, but don't worry, Regalia has been rebuilt several times over in the time since the idea was suggested.
Regalia is where most of the server population is, and always has been. Can't really blame them.
 
Could we see the data for the survey? Because I honestly can't imagine how it could possibly be determined that repair isn't wanted in a non-biased way based around the survey which was submitted. There was no indication of what was wrong with repair, leading questions about whether said person actually has 1k repair or not, etc. I mean, if I was asked if something should be nerfed and had no idea what it was, I'd probably default to no, and I think that goes for most people. On the flip-side, almost all of the feedback on the repair thread, where a substantial number of people actually had 1k repair, was in favor of the nerfing of repair.

That along with the points made in my earlier post leaves me pretty clueless as to why it's been decided a nerf is not needed.

This, we need to see the poll data. It's impossible for the community to help out if we're being fed through a crack in the cement.
 
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