So then how do we actually achieve that, though?
Could Massive Pvp Ever Be What It Was?
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Genecide65
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sigh
I hear the main complaints from PVPers as... "We want PVP to be vanilla (not a lot of outside influences)" and I hear at the same time, from the same people "PVP is boring, its always the same people"
So in order to achieve both of those, PVPers need to, as a community, change that "perfect" PVP scenario to be more inviting. Nothing is more boring to everybody else.. than vanilla PVP. My suggestion, that ive said on countless threads at this point, is to embrace MassiveMagic into PVP like we did NOT do with traits. Anything to make Massive PVP more interesting would definitely bring in more people to it.
Genecide65
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I agree about the MassiveMagic stuff, and Massive is good at adding little details to things such as lore items, if we make PVP items more lore-like or something, add aesthetics that appeal to RPers and does not interfere with the PVP mechanics, then I think it would attract more people.
@Zacatero @Genecide65 btw
65jes89
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Magic is the only one of those things that has an even remote chance of happening.
What was the issue with attack speed and unique weapon abilities btw?
MyCatBubbles
Massivecrafts Schizo
Because it makes PVP slow and clunky when we'd like it fast paced. The only thing thats maybe good from it is the weapon abilities.
Alright, but how much does the pace change and what do you gain from being able to spam click? That's part of the reasons I don't PvP, right, it's the lack of nuance. Convince me that the clicking is skillfull and better than something slower paced and more intentional?
BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
Traits weren't embraced because it literally DESTROYED the game. It's the main reason 3/4ths of the entire PvP community left and because the group of people who actually PvP is so small, most people don't think it's worth the time investment to get involved with PvP. The main reason I suggested removing McMMO earlier is because we need to lessen the divide between the new and the old players so new players, and RPers, can jump right into PvP without having to worry about hitting mobs for hours upon end. In terms of making people surrender - nobody wants to compete in unending wars. Wars that never end are wars that aren't worth fighting. I believe that the surrender cost should be lowered to the point where most people can easily afford it, so that surrender is once again a USED and viable option. I also think war declarations on the forums should make a return so RPers can get more involved and see wars taking place, rather than them being something that exclusively is seen in the survival worlds.
@BenRekt it might lessen the divide between new and old players a little bit but lets be honest, that isnt the biggest deal. You guys have said for.. at least as long as i have been around "Its all about SKILL not the exp points" Because I can tell you that if you have pure vanilla pvp (because without traits and MCMMO thats it) it wont bring anybody in, let alone convince the roleplayers to even try. And it will only bring in players who want a vanilla PVP experience, which that group is.. a minority at best. Thats why im suggesting we change that "What we want PVP to be" to include MassiveMagic so that way it will intrigue more people to give it a try.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
First off I have nothing against rpers, but can I just point out that the reason this thread went off topic was because of two rpers. You guys complain about how toxic we are but seeing from this post it's the other way around. The only Pvper whos been toxic on this post was jes and that was in response to mech being toxic.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Just the fact that you think it takes no skill to PvP proves you don't know what you're talking about, if it was the case that PvP required no skill then wouldn't we be seeing more rpers and normal factions players defending their factions from raiders?
BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
It is about skill, but most non-PvPers like to use McMMO as an excuse at to why they will never try PvP. I want it to be an even playing field so people don't think we're just hiding in RNG and numbers.
Havent the Game/PVP staff worked extensively on making the base buff from gaining levels in the PVP stats.. relatively low? I guess what im asking is... Isnt that buff you get for having a high swords level, already low compared to other servers with MCMMO?
HeartAched
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WHAT A GUY.I was simply not posting a proper reply because of the very thing you accuse me of apparently doing 'shooting people down' 'flaming' etc etc blah blah. As it's not me doing this, I posted one picture and you went ballistic which was quite frankly unnecessary. I agree a great deal with what @jes_ said in reply to you because he is right.
However because you so "politely" replied to me in a way that very nicely showcases the supposedly pleasant side of the community that you are part of I will elaborate on what I posted with some context. What I was objecting to was the statement that defenders have no chance of winning in raids, this is entirely false. With the damage levels at what they are right now, which you wouldn't know about since you don't pvp... it is extremely difficult to fight when outnumbered as long as the people you're fighting have gear.
I solo raided Tyberia the other day, who have gear and potions, they also had 10 or so people online yet no one came out to fight me, I have no doubt if 2-3 people even came out who vaguely knew what they were doing I would have been killed or forced away. In the past yeah sure maybe not but right now damage is far higher and two people hitting you kills you very fast, whether or not you're vastly better or not in pvp.
So I hope I cleared that up for you by replying in equally as nice way as you replied to me
Ps. to anyone else who thinks pvpers are all assholes with no brain cells or lives or whatever else yall come up with, maybe you could learn something by actually getting to know some first, because it's far less toxic than it first appears.
BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
If we want PvP to be more diverse, I've already suggested it but the same system that is used in HCF would be fucking AMAZING in MassiveCraft. There was a TON of talk about it a few months ago and I believe @Gethelp said he was looking into something similar. For those who don't know, HCF classes gives buffs depending on your armor.
- Diamond armor gives you 0 buffs, so it's basically vanilla PvP
- Gold armor allows you to buff nearby faction members (such as giving them speed 2, strength 2, temporary resistance / strength 3)
- Leather armor gives you permanent speed 3 (and the ability to activate temporary speed 4) and also allows you to do extra damage with the bow and arrow, and if you hit someone with a fully pulled-back arrow, it will mark them, allowing your teammates to do 20% more damage to them for a small period of time.
- Similar to the archer kit with leather armor, chain armor will give permanent speed 3 (and the ability to activate temporary speed 4) and the ability to "backstab" players with gold swords. Hitting people in the back with gold swords does insane amounts of damage to enemy players.
I agree with McMMO removal, but I don't think it's needed, idc about McMMO in the end.
Jitter clicking =/= skill
OMFG, yes
@BenRekt while i really like your suggestion about the armor classes, I do want to add about your other reply..
If the main reason behind MCMMO removal is to prove the point that skill and MCMMO level arent that heavily connected, then i dont really think thats reason enough to have it removed. Especially with those civilian skills that there have been suggestions on how to nick those so they dont influence PVP.
65jes89
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Don't bother with the skill argument, it's a dead argument which pvpers won a long time ago.
Honestly, if we brought the armor classes in, brought in the attack speed? The game would become far more intelligent, and I would drop my RP regularly to PvP and play survival. That's all I need at this point.
Explain to me how it's skillfull? Instead of shutting me down? We WANT me to be converted, yeah? That's the goal here?
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Yeah honestly if massive took the hcf classes it could add incentive for people who aren't as skilled to pvp, by playing support as bard or archer. Although I really hate the rogue class
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Aim, strafing, potting, refilling. It doesn't sound like it but it really does take skill. If you still believe it doesn't you should have no problem getting on massive and killing me in a 1v1
Ive PVP'd on massive (not heavily, mind you) for as long as ive been here... i still cant do those two without immediately dying^^
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
He wasn't suggesting using the 1.9 attack speed, if they brought in the attack speed it would destroy whatever is left of the PvP community. You may think that the slow attack speed adds strategy and skill to the game, but I've tried PvP on servers with the slow attack speed, it's boring, slow paced, and people rarely die. It's literally just two people barely moving just waiting for their attack cool down to dissapear, trust me man it would do no good for the server.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Ok and honestly jitter clicking in itself requires skill, I'd like to see you click 13 cps while still focusing on killing people and staying alive
"1v1 me mate"
Nope, because look at other games with swords and boards and etc? For Honor is one I'm loving rn. It's highly strategic and intelligent, check out the combat a bit. Add in magic and the armor classes? It'd be far from slow.
Totally something to brag about?
See the first statement.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Ok honestly i've been trying hard not to be toxic but honestly man why are you so god dam ignorant, first of all I didn't say "1v1 me mate" I was just pointing out that since pvp apparently requires no skill then you should have no problem killing me, I really had no intention of fighting you. And I really could care less if you play for honor what does this have anything to do with what were talking about.
Again it still would be slow because you would still need to wait for the attack cooldown, the armor classes wouldn't change this, one class is just an archer who has some extra speed, one is just someone who gives their teammates potion buffs
I wasn't bragging because I can't jitter click, I was just pointing out the fact that jitter clicking does take skill.
Again like I said, there is no strategy in slow attack speed pvp, seeing as I've tried it
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
I honestly can't believe we found someone who's more ignorant about PvP then mech
Mecharic
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@Typhenon - Why do people still think I'm a roleplayer? I haven't roleplayed in literally years. My roleplay characters consist of exactly 1 character app that I don't even use anymore (none of the characters in my avatar actually exist anymore). I prefer to build, but am a casual generalist player - I'll do just about anything, so long as I can enjoy it.
@jes_ - Let me clarify: As someone who PvPs casually as a non-dedicated player, the death of PvP on MassiveCraft would not negatively effect my gameplay or my activity levels. It would not have any harmful results for me as a player or a person. And yet, here I've been trying to support a gameplay I don't even enjoy that much anymore.
@jquaile - Thank you for answering seriously. Forgive me if the only defenses I've ever been part of have all ended in failure on part of the defenders, I guess that's just the n00b me showing there. As for people who have resources & numbers but choose not to, fact is you can't force them to fight or surrender. To change that would just be another nail in the coffin of survival activity levels. As for the picture, that was the third time you had posted it in this thread while explaining nothing and adding nothing. Here, have your own quotes:
So I'm sure you can see how it gets very, very... frustrating to interact with you. It wasn't just you, of course. Others posted either 1-word or 1-sentence statements that were absolutes which had neither depth nor detail in them, which creates a less-than-optimal environment for people trying to find problems & solutions to those problems.
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I do not regret my post. I will not apologize for it. It was something that needed to be said, that many players find the PvP community to be utterly oppressive and toxic in nature, which makes PvP much less appealing. I know I'm certainly not one to say that, but even so it needed to be said. And in the end that is what needs the most focus: how to make PvP more appealing to new players and potential PvPers.
@jes_ - Let me clarify: As someone who PvPs casually as a non-dedicated player, the death of PvP on MassiveCraft would not negatively effect my gameplay or my activity levels. It would not have any harmful results for me as a player or a person. And yet, here I've been trying to support a gameplay I don't even enjoy that much anymore.
@jquaile - Thank you for answering seriously. Forgive me if the only defenses I've ever been part of have all ended in failure on part of the defenders, I guess that's just the n00b me showing there. As for people who have resources & numbers but choose not to, fact is you can't force them to fight or surrender. To change that would just be another nail in the coffin of survival activity levels. As for the picture, that was the third time you had posted it in this thread while explaining nothing and adding nothing. Here, have your own quotes:
So I'm sure you can see how it gets very, very... frustrating to interact with you. It wasn't just you, of course. Others posted either 1-word or 1-sentence statements that were absolutes which had neither depth nor detail in them, which creates a less-than-optimal environment for people trying to find problems & solutions to those problems.
------------
I do not regret my post. I will not apologize for it. It was something that needed to be said, that many players find the PvP community to be utterly oppressive and toxic in nature, which makes PvP much less appealing. I know I'm certainly not one to say that, but even so it needed to be said. And in the end that is what needs the most focus: how to make PvP more appealing to new players and potential PvPers.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
My bad I thought you were :3
Lemme just replace the word Rper with non-pvper
K
Alright, I'll be more clear this time. Listen to my words. I am comparing a slower combat game to Minecraft, a building game that generally has some combat that was improved in 1.9 in ways that was under utilized. Realize that I just told you to go study a bit and inspect For Honor, the combat speed, and how different armor types will very influence the combat if you think it through enough. A fast af guy in leather armor with 3 speed, a sword in one hand, and an infinity bow and some splash potions in the other turns into a pain in the ass to deal with. A guy walking around in full enchanted gold with a flag on his back to tell his allies where exactly he is in the fight, with an axe to help him break down the shields of attacking normies in iron/diamond with shield and whathaveyou. It's more nuanced then you realize and it's about counters and counter counters.
Now realize how much of an f-tard you just made yourself look like by calling someone who is interested in making PvP good for other people like himself, and is interested in PvPing, and has never PvPed on Minecraft, the building game, a day in his life... Ignorant. Goddamn right, I'm ignorant. Just like you're ignorant in rocket science (under the assumption you aren't a rocket science, but since you're playing on a Miencraft server..?). C'mon. Don't be a kid about this. I want to make it fun for everyone, so help me find a comprimise.
Or confirm the belief of RPers and be toxic? But what does that help?
Mecharic
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Yeah that's fine. Though I do occasionally get the nerve up to PvP, I just really don't like killing other players who are just minding their own business :/
65jes89
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Actually I'm really sure the vast majority of us think you're the ignorant one here bud. You came in, obviously know absolutely nothing about PvP, and yet for some reason are shitting on the PvPers because... Well actually I don't know. The point is, 1.7 mechanic PvP is a popular gamemode across the minecraft community. 1.9 mechanic pvp is not. If you want to go play For Honor, be my guest. But, if you want that kind of game, go play For Honor. Don't try and turn the game that already exists and which people enjoy into a different game. Doesn't matter how cool the combat system is in For Honor (and I've seen it, it does look pretty cool), we play Minecraft. Minecraft is not made for that, and nothing you or anyone else does is going to turn it into that.
Then tell me why I should even consider the system that is 1.7's a system at all? Explain to me why you like it? And realize I was only making a COMPARISON, Minecraft with 1.9 has the potential to become more than a random shitfest which it looks like to all looking in.
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Improved is definitely a huge overstatement
I have played for honor, but it's a completely different game, it's not even the same genre, the only similarities I can tie between the games is that you can kill people in them
In theory this would work but it doesn't translate into mc, even on hcf servers archers are able to be 3-4 shot. All someone would have to do is pearl on them and pretty unless the archer is very good at healing he's probably dead, the archer would be little more then a nuisance to the armored guy.
Kinda confused where this guy with a flag on his back came from
Realize how much of an "f-tard" you look like when you argue that it's a good idea to completely ruin PvP for the people who love it just so "other people like you" which I think is a very little amount, can try to PvP
You're rocket science argument was very flawed, obviously I don't know shit about rocket science, but I don't go around acting like I know shit about it and talking about what's best for the rocket science community, and hey o wait, isn't that exactly what you're doing right now?
Everyone being you and your apparent other people
I never claimed that rpers are toxic or that I have anything against them, I just pointed out that it's ironic how rpers and faction players complain about the toxicity of the PvP community when you guys were the ones who started the toxicity on this thread, not the Pvpers
Typhenon
Professional Potion Bouncer
Tbh i'm just waiting for staff to lock this thread for flame :3
Alright, so, look up comprimise for me, and realize that I mean everyone everyone, not just the people you don't want to like at the moment.
The flag on his back was an example of different purposes of different players on the field of battle. Buffer, attack, defense, mid, gank, etc.
No, the argument was not flawed. Here's a better argument: You want more PvPers in a game with a dying PvP population, so let the non-PvPers throw input in so that the population will boost, yeah?
Except we've almost gotten somewhere if we can find the grace point in between jitter clicking and attack speed and armor buffs. It'd be dumb to close it now.
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