What Happened To Vampirism?

spacegravity4me

spacegravity4me

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Please forgive me if this has been addressed. I tried searching multiple times but still have no answer. I left the game for a while because of real life. I was a vampire when I left a few months back. Obviously something changed because now I am not and the commands no longer work. I understand something new may have replaced it but what I can't figure out is if vampirism is gone for good or just different. It was the most intriguing aspect of the server for me. Just looking for an answer. Thank you
 
pwnzownz said:
What do you miss about the old system, may I ask?
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My opinion is probably biased because of nostalgia. But if you really want to know, I'll ask you this first. Are you asking me because you want a different perspective, or because you want to convince me otherwise? If it's the second, I wouldn't bother. This thread was created for vampire related help, and I won't tarnish that message by turning it into a pointless banter between the benefits of the old and new vampire system.
 
Laach said:
My opinion is probably biased because of nostalgia. But if you really want to know, I'll ask you this first. Are you asking me because you want a different perspective, or because you want to convince me otherwise? If it's the second, I wouldn't bother. This thread was created for vampire related help, and I won't tarnish that message by turning it into a pointless banter between the benefits of the old and new vampire system.
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The former. I've never really dabbled too much with vampirism features, old or new, and I'd like to see some more opinions on it.
 
pwnzownz said:
The former. I've never really dabbled too much with vampirism features, old or new, and I'd like to see some more opinions on it.
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When I see someone say "[Vampires/Maiars/etc.] are more diverse now." I get really pissed. The only thing they can compare it to is the old lore system, and everything they say to contradict me ends up being wrong or a biased opinion. I've had this discussion multiple times with other people and none of them have been able to combat my claim effectively.

Before the big change in lore, I used to know at least four other Vampires. One of them is my friend at school. She especially hates these new changes and honestly, I wouldn't have noticed it in the first place if it wasn't for her.
Those four vampire roleplayers, all of them no longer have a lore compliant vampire character. Their character can no longer be approved because they:
1. don't act the way they are supposed to.
2. don't look the way they are supposed to.
3. the process to change them into lore complaint characters is too drawn out and complex for their schedules to handle.

I have now lost 4 potential roleplay partners to this new system.
Those roleplayers have also lost the ability to roleplay as their precious OC's.
And for what cause? To improve the roleplay environment? To get rid of the surplus of amateur vampire roleplayers? (which I never really minded to the point where their simplicity amused me)

You can tell me the new system is an improvement all you want. Until I'm given proof, all I will see is something that destroyed the old vampire system while mocking it by calling it inferior.
 
Laach said:
You can tell me the new system is an improvement all you want. Until I'm given proof, all I will see is something that destroyed the old vampire system while mocking it by calling it inferior.
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can i give it a shot?
the new system didn't destroy my vampire character as example, instead it made things more clear on what he actually was. i must say i slightly panicked in teh start but later i found out that most of teh time old vampire characters worked best if you converted them to Qan Ata. and on top of that, finaly some lore was actually written out, before it, i had to scearch the whole forus to find all teh pieces scatterd acros it and even tehn i only knew 1/4 of it all another 1/4 i gained by trial and error. i'm happy with the new system. and now i realized what i wrote does not realy do what i wanted and since i desperatly need a clear structurization of stuf (F* you autism) you can concider this biased? pft, do/think what you want with this lol, i tried my best XD
 
krios41 said:
the new system didn't destroy my vampire character as example, instead it made things more clear on what he actually was. i must say i slightly panicked in teh start but later i found out that most of teh time old vampire characters worked best if you converted them to Qan Ata. and on top of that, finaly some lore was actually written out, before it, i had to scearch the whole forus to find all teh pieces scatterd acros it and even tehn i only knew 1/4 of it all another 1/4 i gained by trial and error. i'm happy with the new system. and now i realized what i wrote does not realy do what i wanted and since i desperatly need a clear structurization of stuf
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Well in your case you never really finished your character. The people I roleplayed with had already created a story for their character based on the old lore. Keep in mind that a story when used correctly can be the greatest defining piece of your character, while the basic descriptions are just there for the people who want to understand what the story means.

Changing the lore would mean you need to change how my character acts, how they look, and what they experienced. If you've already put a lot of description into your character or have grown attached to them, then it becomes hard to change them while at the same time having them stay the same.
 
Laach said:
Well in your case you never really finished your character. The people I roleplayed with had already created a story for their character based on the old lore. Keep in mind that a story when used correctly can be the greatest defining piece of your character, while the basic descriptions are just there for the people who want to understand what the story means.

Changing the lore would mean you need to change how my character acts, how they look, and what they experienced. If you've already put a lot of description into your character or have grown attached to them, then it becomes hard to change them while at the same time having them stay the same.
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my character was aproved (don't know if you ever saw Arthur Voss?) by Ryciera back with the old template so he was finished, i had that character for months before he went inactive, now i'm bringing him back because i want to play as a vampire again, i don't even have to make big changes on him, it's more elaboration and adding a few things here and there. i changed how he act just because it doesn't fit my rp style anymore and the biggest reworks on it are there more because i was a noob back then XD
 
Laach said:
When I see someone say "[Vampires/Maiars/etc.] are more diverse now." I get really pissed. The only thing they can compare it to is the old lore system, and everything they say to contradict me ends up being wrong or a biased opinion. I've had this discussion multiple times with other people and none of them have been able to combat my claim effectively.

Before the big change in lore, I used to know at least four other Vampires. One of them is my friend at school. She especially hates these new changes and honestly, I wouldn't have noticed it in the first place if it wasn't for her.
Those four vampire roleplayers, all of them no longer have a lore compliant vampire character. Their character can no longer be approved because they:
1. don't act the way they are supposed to.
2. don't look the way they are supposed to.
3. the process to change them into lore complaint characters is too drawn out and complex for their schedules to handle.

I have now lost 4 potential roleplay partners to this new system.
Those roleplayers have also lost the ability to roleplay as their precious OC's.
And for what cause? To improve the roleplay environment? To get rid of the surplus of amateur vampire roleplayers? (which I never really minded to the point where their simplicity amused me)

You can tell me the new system is an improvement all you want. Until I'm given proof, all I will see is something that destroyed the old vampire system while mocking it by calling it inferior.
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As somebody who had a very direct hand in the new vampire lore, I feel it's important to speak up on the matter, as there's potential there may have been a misunderstanding.

This bloodline is a direct adaptation of the old vampires. In fact, that picture of a Qan Ata vampire is a reference to a vampire who was being played back when vampirism was in a little flash book on the main website. The idea of this vampire bloodline came around so older vampires wouldn't have to change much, if anything, about the way they portrayed their vampires. The difference between this vampire and the vampire page from before predominantly lies in the expansion of it. That is, there's more detail here that was always there, but never actually written down. It's a bit unclear why your buddies might've had difficulty transitioning to the new vampire system, but the point of the new system was to give room for expansion and change without making it mandatory.

Before the original changes, the vampire system was off the walls. Maybe you weren't troubled by it, but something needed to be done to both set the lore in stone and offer more drawbacks. At first, vampires got completely nerfed. The red eyes and proneness t insanity and demon possession made playing a vampire exceedingly difficult. As a solution, we introduced bloodlines to compromise between the two.

While your feedback is appreciated, it seems to be based on very vague facts. My question now is, in what ways were your friends unable to adapt to the new vampires?
 
Ryciera said:
My question now is, in what ways were your friends unable to adapt to the new vampires?
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  1. Don't act the way they are supposed to: Like I said, this is a completely new system with new definitions for each and every type of vampire. A story, when used as the defining piece of a character, will change as each and every term inside changes with it. When you write a story about a character against vampires, and the lore changes to make the definition of vampire more complex, your story will also need to be more complex. For example: Character (A) hates [x, y, and z]. He also hates all vampires because vampires and [x] share similar qualities. The lore changes, making vampires more complicated. Now, Character (A) hates [specific vampire(s)] because [specific vampire(s)] and [x, z, and/or f] share similar qualities. Character now hates [f] because [f] now shares similar qualities with[specific vampire(s)]. However, hating [f] contradicts with liking [t].So Character (A) no longer likes [t]. But no longer liking [t] would make [k] in your story impossible. So [k] never happened.......... and the contradictions would continue until the character is perfected once again. The problem is created when too many contradictions form and having your old character stay the same is no longer an option.
  2. Don't look the way they are supposed to: This was my biggest assumption. Apparently I'm the only person who stresses out about how my character is supposed to look like.
  3. The process to change them into lore complaint characters is too drawn out and complex for their schedules to handle: see point 1, and the fact that schools and jobs are a thing. Applications become an unnecessary obstacle at this point.

The main problem lies in wanting your character to fit perfectly into the Massivecraft universe. Staff is strict when it comes to lore compliancy, and that makes this process incredibly difficult.
In fact, I just finished the personality of my character two weeks before the Maiar lore change. I had been working on him for 8 months since his personality is so different from mine. I went through a lot of trouble to make sure I wouldn't roleplay his personality incorrectly (and because I literally wanted to roleplay "as" him, not "with" him). Then, like a castle on a beach, his foundation(lore) shifted to make collapse[rejection] much more likely.
My specific situation is a bit extreme, but I assume my friends are having similar or relatable problems. The third problem has definitely been the most mentioned and isn't limited to just vampire roleplayers.
 
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Laach said:
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You make some interesting points, but I haven't heard many of these arguments from others. Judging from how you speak, you seem to have a firm grasp on the community's opinion, but I haven't actually seen you about Regalia much IG. Can you name some specific instances or anecdotes where you've encountered these sort of problems? The first one...doesn't make much sense. Vampires can always be clumped into the vampire group regardless. Racism and generalization run rampant in Aloria. If he begins to hate some and enjoy others based on traits instead of whether or not they're a vampire, that seems like a more developed character. As for the second and third...I see people focus a great deal on their character's looks, and work around their schedules to make an application. If you want to do something, you generally make the time for it, even if it's only a little bit at a time.
 
He
Laach said:
  1. Don't act the way they are supposed to: Like I said, this is a completely new system with new definitions for each and every type of vampire. A story, when used as the defining piece of a character, will change as each and every term inside changes with it. When you write a story about a character against vampires, and the lore changes to make the definition of vampire more complex, your story will also need to be more complex. For example: Character (A) hates [x, y, and z]. He also hates all vampires because vampires and [x] share similar qualities. The lore changes, making vampires more complicated. Now, Character (A) hates [specific vampire(s)] because [specific vampire(s)] and [x, z, and/or f] share similar qualities. Character now hates [f] because [f] now shares similar qualities with[specific vampire(s)]. However, hating [f] contradicts with liking . So Character (A) no longer likes . But no longer liking would make [k] in your story impossible. So [k] never happened.......... and the contradictions would continue until the character is perfected once again. The problem is created when too many contradictions form and having your old character stay the same is no longer an option.
  2. Don't look the way they are supposed to: This was my biggest assumption. Apparently I'm the only person who stresses out about how my character is supposed to look like.
  3. The process to change them into lore complaint characters is too drawn out and complex for their schedules to handle: see point 1, and the fact that schools and jobs are a thing. Applications become an unnecessary obstacle at this point.
The main problem lies in wanting your character to fit perfectly into the Massivecraft universe. Staff is strict when it comes to lore compliancy, and that makes this process incredibly difficult.
In fact, I just finished the personality of my character two weeks before the Maiar lore change. I had been working on him for 8 months since his personality is so different from mine. I went through a lot of trouble to make sure I wouldn't roleplay his personality incorrectly (and because I literally wanted to roleplay "as" him, not "with" him). Then, like a castle on a beach, his foundation(lore) shifted to make collapse[rejection] much more likely.
My specific situation is a bit extreme, but I assume my friends are having similar or relatable problems. The third problem has definitely been the most mentioned and isn't limited to just vampire roleplayers.
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The "default" vampire lore didn't change at all, and many of the new bloodlines are completely unknown to anyone IC. The emergence of the non-human bloodlines was a recent event, and there are even plenty of vampires who don't know about The Order and archaic bloodlines. I don't see how this lore expansion would conflict with their stories unless you can give a specific example.

Granted, some lore seems to change on a whim, but the vampire lore changes actually tried to be as unobtrusive as possible for existing Vampire characters.
 
Laach said:
When I see someone say "[Vampires/Maiars/etc.] are more diverse now." I get really pissed. The only thing they can compare it to is the old lore system, and everything they say to contradict me ends up being wrong or a biased opinion. I've had this discussion multiple times with other people and none of them have been able to combat my claim effectively.

Before the big change in lore, I used to know at least four other Vampires. One of them is my friend at school. She especially hates these new changes and honestly, I wouldn't have noticed it in the first place if it wasn't for her.
Those four vampire roleplayers, all of them no longer have a lore compliant vampire character. Their character can no longer be approved because they:
1. don't act the way they are supposed to.
2. don't look the way they are supposed to.
3. the process to change them into lore complaint characters is too drawn out and complex for their schedules to handle.

I have now lost 4 potential roleplay partners to this new system.
Those roleplayers have also lost the ability to roleplay as their precious OC's.
And for what cause? To improve the roleplay environment? To get rid of the surplus of amateur vampire roleplayers? (which I never really minded to the point where their simplicity amused me)

You can tell me the new system is an improvement all you want. Until I'm given proof, all I will see is something that destroyed the old vampire system while mocking it by calling it inferior.
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While the points you have mentioned are valid, have you considered that what you have mentioned are faults in the formal lore 'system' more than they are faults in the new written lore and gameplay system?
 
Green_Hood said:
You make some interesting points, but I haven't heard many of these arguments from others. Judging from how you speak, you seem to have a firm grasp on the community's opinion, but I haven't actually seen you about Regalia much IG. Can you name some specific instances or anecdotes where you've encountered these sort of problems?
The first one...doesn't make much sense. Vampires can always be clumped into the vampire group regardless. Racism and generalization run rampant in Aloria. If he begins to hate some and enjoy others based on traits instead of whether or not they're a vampire, that seems like a more developed character.
As for the second and third...I see people focus a great deal on their character's looks, and work around their schedules to make an application. If you want to do something, you generally make the time for it, even if it's only a little bit at a time.
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Like I said, one of them is a friend in real life, so I was able to ask them directly for their side of the story.
I don't want to give away any names, but there has been a circumstance where an old, experienced vampire roleplayer decided to give half of their finished roleplay app saying that they would probably never finish it.
There have been anonymous(as in no specified race) complaints from others too, saying that the work is too tedious and that they might be unable to finish their character.
And I have been having similar problems to the ones stated as a Maiar roleplayer myself with the new Maiar lore.

What I used for point one was only an example. I can use another if you'd like.
And yes, that is an example of a more developed character.

"If you want to do something, you generally make the time for it, even if it's only a little bit at a time."
But would you really want to spend your time working on some project when you know it's not going to be appreciated or approved?
8 months. How much longer do you want me to work on my character? You're probably going to change the lore again by the time I update him anyway.
 
LeafMC said:
-snip-The emergence of the non-human bloodlines was a recent event-snip-
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What?
How the heck is there so much info on it then?

pwnzownz said:
While the points you have mentioned are valid, have you considered that what you have mentioned are faults in the formal lore 'system' more than they are faults in the new written lore and gameplay system?
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Well, the old lore system no longer exists, and the problems stated are recent. So, yes I have considered them. No, I haven't found anything wrong with the old system that wasn't easily curable.
 
Laach said:
There have been anonymous(as in no specified race) complaints from others too, saying that the work is too tedious and that they might be unable to finish their character.
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I don't believe that's what I asked. Specific instances instead of general or ambiguous answers, please, for the sake of the debate.

Laach said:
And I have been having similar problems to the ones stated as a Maiar roleplayer myself with the new Maiar lore.
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I wouldn't call it that new, as it's been out for over three months.

Laach said:
But would you really want to spend your time working on some project when you know it's not going to be appreciated or approved?
8 months. How much longer do you want me to work on my character? You're probably going to change the lore again by the time I update him anyway.
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Actually, the RP staff (Specifically people like Shayin or Jared who actively do character reviews) work hard to get characters looked over and approved. Making the assumption that your application will be skimmed over or rejected immediately seems like a slap to their face, and I'd prefer if some evidence was supplied before you say that the RP staff who review characters do so without any care or appreciation.

Since the average time it takes to write a character application is much shorter, we much cater to the needs of the many over the needs of the few. However, that doesn't mean that people who take longer to write are left high and dry. RP staff is always there to assist you.
Furthermore, I think we're getting a little off-track with this. You're very quick to jump and point out the issues that are in the lore, but instead, don't you think it would be more beneficial for everyone if you could offer suggestions or solutions as well? Let's see a little more constructive-criticism.
 
Laach said:
What?
How the heck is there so much info on it then?


Well, the old lore system no longer exists, and the problems stated are recent. So, yes I have considered them. No, I haven't found anything wrong with the old system that wasn't easily curable.
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It's OOC information, just because something's on the wiki doesn't mean anything is known about it IG. The vice demons, for example, are clearly explained, but only scholars of the most esoteric lore, or cultists far from decent civilization have any idea that they exist.
 
Green_Hood said:
You're very quick to jump and point out the issues that are in the lore, but instead, don't you think it would be more beneficial for everyone if you could offer suggestions or solutions as well? Let's see a little more constructive-criticism.
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That's one of the reasons I didn't want to argue or debate about this in the first place. I don't have a reasonable solution, and half of what I said so far is assumption with little to no solid evidence supporting it.

At this point I'm arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't even know what I'm arguing for.

We can talk about this subject later if you want, as some of the stuff I have said is true beyond doubt. But until then, there isn't much point in fretting over an undetermined problem that might or might not exist.

Also, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was being rude towards the roleplay staff. What I said had nothing to do with them, or anyone in particular.
 
I remember the first time I was approached by a Vampire, it was outside the Willow. He asked me "Want to become a Vampire?" I replied by telling him my character was an Elf, IC. He hid behind a tree.

The second time, my character was scarred in two places and almost killed.

I'd say the trait-based Vampires invoke more role-play but require more server devotion to dig through the command page and find them.
 

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