Archived Nerfing The Undead Race...

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_Dewlox_

_Dewlox_

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Title explains everything, i just think that undead having 15% damage reduction from every weapon is pretty much overpowered. I know this idea was already suggested couple of times but i want to revoke it. Undead should have 7% damage recution from weapons as orcs have 7% increased damage on all weapons (exept bows because we aren't elfs ._. ) Since undead is pretty much slightly overpowered and on top of other races, it's almost the most populiar pvp race. I don't think a lot of people will think my suggestion is good but i think people should pvp as other races too, not mostly undead.
 
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my expiriencs with undead is that your 15% dmg reduction isn't that much, i still get killed very quick by mobs( i do wear armor maybe i just suck at pve/pvp)
 
arthur said:
my expiriencs with undead is that your 15% dmg reduction isn't that much, i still get killed very quick by mobs( i do wear armor maybe i just suck at pve/pvp)
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Yes, indeed it's not much. But undead premium fighting non premium is even more unfair than without undead. Since as an undead (yes, i use it myself) and premium i have 30% damage reduction. And that is not that low amout as you think about it.
 
It may seem to be really high, but I think its a good amount of damage reduction. What they should do to nerf it is add in some other negatives. Like maybe share a weakness with vampires to holy water, or take damage from being around lapis. (As I understand it, Undead are bodies held together by a person's spirit and connection to the veil, meaning lapis should hurt them. I think.)
All in all, I think the people who come across the issue of Premium undead most of the time are not High Teir Pvpers in the first place (I admit, this is a generalization. Feel free to prove me wrong.) If people are trained in both their Mcskills and their tactical thinking, this bonus isn't that high.
Regardless, even though I don't like the nerf you suggested, it is a fairer downgrade than what I expected when I saw the title of the thread. So, if this does get implemented I would be fine with it, but I would rather it either stay the same, or have some other negative.
 
Thalan79 said:
It may seem to be really high, but I think its a good amount of damage reduction. What they should do to nerf it is add in some other negatives. Like maybe share a weakness with vampires to holy water, or take damage from being around lapis. (As I understand it, Undead are bodies held together by a person's spirit and connection to the veil, meaning lapis should hurt them. I think.)
All in all, I think the people who come across the issue of Premium undead most of the time are not High Teir Pvpers in the first place (I admit, this is a generalization. Feel free to prove me wrong.) If people are trained in both their Mcskills and their tactical thinking, this bonus isn't that high.
Regardless, even though I don't like the nerf you suggested, it is a fairer downgrade than what I expected when I saw the title of the thread. So, if this does get implemented I would be fine with it, but I would rather it either stay the same, or have some other negative.
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The thing is, undead race isn't balanced other races wise. It has higher bonus that the others. In my opinion orc race is balanced offensive race and undead should be balanced defensive race, but it isn't. That's why i made this suggestion.
 
Thalan79 said:
It may seem to be really high, but I think its a good amount of damage reduction. What they should do to nerf it is add in some other negatives. Like maybe share a weakness with vampires to holy water, or take damage from being around lapis. (As I understand it, Undead are bodies held together by a person's spirit and connection to the veil, meaning lapis should hurt them. I think.)
All in all, I think the people who come across the issue of Premium undead most of the time are not High Teir Pvpers in the first place (I admit, this is a generalization. Feel free to prove me wrong.) If people are trained in both their Mcskills and their tactical thinking, this bonus isn't that high.
Regardless, even though I don't like the nerf you suggested, it is a fairer downgrade than what I expected when I saw the title of the thread. So, if this does get implemented I would be fine with it, but I would rather it either stay the same, or have some other negative.
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If that lapis thing got implemented, it would change PvP by a lot. If you're being chased by an Undead, just throw lapis behind you and you have a chance at beating him, even though you were just running away for whatever reason.
 
Then give the undead a 7% damage reduction to axes, swords, bows (like it is right now) PLUS poison, fall damage, magic maybe, and other things that cause damage?
 
Kirby12352 said:
If that lapis thing got implemented, it would change PvP by a lot. If you're being chased by an Undead, just throw lapis behind you and you have a chance at beating him, even though you were just running away for whatever reason.
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It would be interesting. I honestly think that whenever the magic plugin is finished and implemented something similar would be added as a weakness for magic casters. I am not sure if it would be straight up damage to undead, but maybe removing the damage reduction, or weakening it. It could also do other things, but not entirely sure what would balance out the damage reduction.
 
I support because of this: The undead are mathematically better than any other race for pvp. No matter what race you are, you can't do extra damage to an undead. Dwarf vs undead- 15% countered by undead = 0% extra damage. This is true for all races. The reason it is OP is because the undead can use whatever weapon of their choosing, and switch between bows and swords and axes, but if the attacker uses anything other than their race's weapon, they are doing less damage than is being taken in, and even using their race weapon is giving them no benefit.
 
Unless undead are changed to a type 2 race (with more complicated pro's and con's) I think this is quite a good and balanced solution. It would leave them with a balanced fight against orcs, except for bows with which the orcs would do 7% less damage (orcs get a 7% bonus will all weapons except bows right?), and a 8% (15-7) disadvantage against any race with a 15% weapon bonus (assuming the other player is using their race correct weapon).
 
I think the undead balance the game. If other races have 15% extra damage then it is only fair to have a race that can stop that damage.

either choose to do the damage or take the damage.

It is completely fair and to nerf the undead would throw the game out of balance and would cause more trouble. Nerfing is not a good thing in this situation.
 
Overlordqwerty said:
Unless undead are changed to a type 2 race (with more complicated pro's and con's) I think this is quite a good and balanced solution. It would leave them with a balanced fight against orcs, except for bows with which the orcs would do 7% less damage (orcs get a 7% bonus will all weapons except bows right?), and a 8% (15-7) disadvantage against any race with a 15% weapon bonus (assuming the other player is using their race correct weapon).
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That would leave everyone switching from undead to other races and then everyone becomes a race that deals 15% extra damage. Undead balance the game in my opinion. It is only natural to have something that can combat on OP dwarf with 15% axe bonus.

(I've been a dwarf for months and they are so OP haha).

So I believe if Undead is nerfed then all others should be as well. The 7% for nearly all weps as an Orc is the price you pay for being multi-faceted.
 
SuperSaiyanWoff said:
That would leave everyone switching from undead to other races and then everyone becomes a race that deals 15% extra damage. Undead balance the game in my opinion. It is only natural to have something that can combat on OP dwarf with 15% axe bonus.

(I've been a dwarf for months and they are so OP haha).

So I believe if Undead is nerfed then all others should be as well. The 7% for nearly all weps as an Orc is the price you pay for being multi-faceted.
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Why would everyone switch? If you were doing both range and melee combat then undead would have an advantage. It would give you more versatility. Like an orc, but defensive focused. It would mean you still choose undead to tank, orc if you like all the weapons (except bows, which does make the orc a bit under powered) and another race if you want to focus on one weapon.
 
I've never gotten a chance to use the Undead race so I can't speak but I honestly don't want them to be nerfed...
 
Overlordqwerty said:
Why would everyone switch? If you were doing both range and melee combat then undead would have an advantage. It would give you more versatility. Like an orc, but defensive focused. It would mean you still choose undead to tank, orc if you like all the weapons (except bows, which does make the orc a bit under powered) and another race if you want to focus on one weapon.
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range combat is way too weak and nearly useless in PvP regardless of the Undead getting 15%. If anything bows should have more power (off topic I know haha).

But honestly 7% wouldn't be worth being undead if your opponents are hitting 15%. As a dwarf I was fine being on level terms with undead. Not to mention if you are in an undead faction and you are in PvP there is almost no point in fighting if it is nerfed to 7% since, like I said, your oppnents would be hitting 15%.

One of my points is the living has many races which do 15% damage and with Vampires already losing nearly all of their perks it just wouldn't be fair to weaken the Undead giving all the Living-Hated races a great PvP advantage over the Undead and Vamps.

It keeps the world in check and keeps the living and dead on equal terms.
 
If you think that undead balance the game then you are wrong. For example i use 3 weapons in pvp. Bow, sword and axe. Undead are protected from each of them whatever race you are. If you are an dwarf, you do 15% more damage only with an axe. If undead is atacked by several people with diffrent weapons, they don't get that much damage as other races. Yes, they aren't offencive race. But as defencive race they have too much bonuses. Orc is basicly balanced offencive race. But he still would do -7% damage with every weapon to undead. Then if undead are balanced, then why don't make orcs deal 15% with every weapon exept bow? (Yes, that would ruin the whole race thing) But still, it's logical example.
 
Aira1 said:
If you think that undead balance the game then you are wrong. For example i use 3 weapons in pvp. Bow, sword and axe. Undead are protected from each of them whatever race you are. If you are an dwarf, you do 15% more damage only with an axe. If undead is atacked by several people with diffrent weapons, they don't get that much damage as other races. Yes, they aren't offencive race. But as defencive race they have too much bonuses. Orc is basicly balanced offencive race. But he still would do -7% damage with every weapon to undead. Then if undead are balanced, then why don't make orcs deal 15% with every weapon exept bow? (Yes, that would ruin the whole race thing) But still, it's logical example.
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You have the option to use one weapon though. Just because someone wants to be multi-faceted doesn't mean a race should be nerfed. Choose a weapon and use it and there would be no need to nerf rather than being someone who uses 3 weapons and does medial damage.

It is not the fault of the Undead that someone wants to be good in all forms of combat. I honestly feel as though orcs and undead should not be used in comparison for the simple fact that the living have multiple 15% races to face the undead.

If undead is nerfed then they should unnerf the vampires.
 
I agree with unnerfing vampires. They are far too weak after the removal of bloodlust. But undead race has to be nerfed.
 
Aira1 said:
I agree with unnerfing vampires. They are far too weak after the removal of bloodlust. But undead race has to be nerfed.
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I don't think they should be nerfed to keep the balance between dead and living equal. The way to be on par with the Undead is to be an Elf, Dwarf, or (whoever gets 15% sword bonus if any race does). The undead do no bonus attack so if you are an elf or dwarf or whatever, then you are completely equal to undead.

Which is a balanced system. If undead were 7% then those races would do 8% extra damage to them and undead wouldn't even get an attack bonus so undead would actually be -7% in comparison.

It just seems as though undead would become a worthless race if a nerf like this one or similar would happen.
They should at least get some attack boost if they are nerfed defense.

(I realize I am kinda saying the same thing in each reply but I think I'm contributing a little right? haha)
 
No race gets 15% damage bonus with sword. The only that gives bonus to damage with an sword is orc. And that is 7%.
 
Aira1 said:
No race gets 15% damage bonus with sword. The only that gives bonus to damage with an sword is orc. And that is 7%.
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I didnt think so.

But even still, the dwarves and elves cancel out the undead. And with no added offense to the undead, undead would just be dead haha
 
Orcs have 7% damage increase with all weapons exept bows (Undead has damage reduction on those too) Then if using your opinion, orcs are more than dead already.
 
But the thing is you can only use 1 weapon at a time. In my opinion Orcs are as they should be which is at 7%. Without undead being at 15% there would be nothing to contest dwarves which is how it levels itself out.

take it out, then theres nothing to contest dwarves and dwarves become the new "needs nerf" thing.
 
SuperSaiyanWoff said:
range combat is way too weak and nearly useless in PvP regardless of the Undead getting 15%. If anything bows should have more power (off topic I know haha).
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Actually, that's not as off topic as you might think, it outlines an issue that is currently being had with Ranged combat, one that has been addressed to staff already in a post that is SOLELY for changes to PvP. However, the 15% is slightly too high in my opinion, instead of changing it to 7% reduction, perhaps change it to 10%? This way, they maintain their ability to soak up damage, but not be invincible when they get attacked.

With that being said, Aira1, if you haven't done so, add this to the "Changes to PvP thread" (I believe that's the name anyways... It was posted by Thortuna a while back) once you are satisfied with all of the aspects of this idea. Right now, it seems like you want them nerfed, but you're not certain how much they should be nerfed by. I agree that they should be nerfed, but possibly only by 5% so that they can still maintain their rank as a viable tanking class, that being said, perhaps another "tanky" class could be implemented to help with this? I don't play undead because in my opinion (and as stated in the lore) undead is an "evil" race, I would rather not be considered evil, but in order to get a defensive bonus, I'd be forced to as it currently stands. So, my idea for this would be nerf undead by 5% and then possibly add another race that would be able to tank as well, preferably a race that's considered "good".
 
I disagree. I used sword and axe in pvp. I use sword to set on fire and make my enemy bleed and axe to finish him off. And dwarves aren't in need of nerfing. They are balanced while looking at other races.
 
Hiddenmonkey10 said:
Actually, that's not as off topic as you might think, it outlines an issue that is currently being had with Ranged combat, one that has been addressed to staff already in a post that is SOLELY for changes to PvP. However, the 15% is slightly too high in my opinion, instead of changing it to 7% reduction, perhaps change it to 10%? This way, they maintain their ability to soak up damage, but not be invincible when they get attacked.

With that being said, Aira1, if you haven't done so, add this to the "Changes to PvP thread" (I believe that's the name anyways... It was posted by Thortuna a while back) once you are satisfied with all of the aspects of this idea. Right now, it seems like you want them nerfed, but you're not certain how much they should be nerfed by. I agree that they should be nerfed, but possibly only by 5% so that they can still maintain their rank as a viable tanking class, that being said, perhaps another "tanky" class could be implemented to help with this? I don't play undead because in my opinion (and as stated in the lore) undead is an "evil" race, I would rather not be considered evil, but in order to get a defensive bonus, I'd be forced to as it currently stands. So, my idea for this would be nerf undead by 5% and then possibly add another race that would be able to tank as well, preferably a race that's considered "good".
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Nerfing undead to 10% sounds pretty good. And for using undead. In roleplay i'm an orc. But i use undead since it's best race for pvp out there.
 
If you're both unfamiliar with the Change to PvP thread, it mentions the following (and will likely implement these due to the amount of people mentioning them):

1. Buff to bows, making them more powerful.
2. Nerf to Axes, specifically in the armor damage department.
3. Nerf to the Counter-Attack by swords (I will be sad to see this one if it's implemented because I have slain quite a few people by just blocking the whole battle lol).

There are many more than those, but those three seem to be the ones that affect this conversation as it currently stands. There might be others that do as well, but I forget everything that has been brought up in the conversation, if you'd like, I can link it for you if I'm able to find it.
 
Blaze H, can you please stop rating negative ratings on every post of mine?
 
Aira1 said:
I disagree. I used sword and axe in pvp. I use sword to set on fire and make my enemy bleed and axe to finish him off. And dwarves aren't in need of nerfing. They are balanced while looking at other races.
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I said dwarves would need nerf if undead were nerfed since there would be nothing to stop the awesome dwarf axe power.

It's all about checks and balances and everything cancels each other out right now. And if you use the sword to only do fire and bleeding then switch to axe, why don't you pvp as a dwarf to get the whole 15% bonus?

It all makes sense. Nerfing undead will only lead to more nerfing of other classes (dwarf).
 
SuperSaiyanWoff said:
I said dwarves would need nerf if undead were nerfed since there would be nothing to stop the awesome dwarf axe power.

It's all about checks and balances and everything cancels each other out right now. And if you use the sword to only do fire and bleeding then switch to axe, why don't you pvp as a dwarf to get the whole 15% bonus?

It all makes sense. Nerfing undead will only lead to more nerfing of other classes (dwarf).
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Actually, if they nerf anything, as I mentioned before, it would be the damage to armor caused by axes, then the dwarves would be balanced without changing the class itself.
 
Hiddenmonkey10 said:
Actually, if they nerf anything, as I mentioned before, it would be the damage to armor caused by axes, then the dwarves would be balanced without changing the class itself.
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Yea I gotcha I was just speaking on the whole percentage thing. I personally don't mind getting armor destroyed or being counter attacked. I feel that if someone gets their level high enough to do that to me then so be it, they worked for it.
 
Counter atacks are OP at the moment. You can easily kill a person while only blocking his blows.
 
I'm not against it too, untill i fight person that only blocks all the time having 1k+ swords level.
 
Aira1 said:
That doesn't mean you have to rate every post of mine...
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I dont see what the big deal is.... i disagree and i put it... i thought that was what it was for. I not doing it to be an ass or anything... i just dont think it should be nerfed.
 
Blaze H, you are acting childish by doing this nonsense. You might want to stop before your actions dug hole for you.
 
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