Archived Nerfing The 30% Territory Reduction

[Yoloorange]

Nerfing the 30% Territory Damage Reduction

Why? With the recent addition of massive traits and the mcmmo alchemy skill players are able to fight with very high damage reductions and take very little damage. A premium player with axe resistant, sword resistant, a resistance potion, and the 30% territory buff will have close to a 90% damage reduction meaning they will take an extremely low amount of damage per hit.

Possible Ways To Nerf The Damage Reduction

-Reducing The Damage Reduction: By reducing the 30% damage reduction to 15% or 10% players would still have a high damage reduction, but would take more damage.

-Players Keep the 30% damage reduction while pacifist true: When a player loses pacifist true they will also lose the 30% damage reduction.

-Removing The Damage Reduction: Even without the damage reduction players fighting within their own territory would still have a high damage reduction with massive traits, premium, and resistance potions.

-Possible Trait Replacements: Instead of players automatically having the 30% damage reduction they would need a trait to receive the reduction. A possible trait could be +100 HomeFieldAdvantage or +100 DefenceBonus, this trait would allow players to have the 30% damage reduction though at the cost of 100 trait points.

-Removing the 15% Premium Buff: If people are opposed to removing the territory reduction, the removal of the 15% premium damage reduction would also increase the damage people take so they cannot have extremely high damage reductions

Another possible trait could be +50 team player, this trait would allow players go gain a +5% damage reduction for every faction member within 32 blocks.

If you disagree to the nerf of the 30% damage reduction please post why.

 

[Feyona]

Realistically, I don't agree with this-- as the 30% damage reduction indications a 'homefield advantage'. It gives a boost to protect factions in their own homeland, and could easily be argued away as a sort of idea that people who live in the area would know it better, and have higher advantages in fighting in their homelands for various reasons.

People could also simply argue that if you don't want your enemy to have the advantage (the 30%), you could simply not raid them in their home lands. I believe the 30% should stay in place simply as it gives victimized and attacked factions a better chance at defending themselves rather than stronger players storming their homelands relentlessly and getting 1 hit kills on low skilled PVPers.

 

[babbleboi]

Mhm...I don't really see a reason as to why we would need to nerf this, the system works perfectly fine..It would actually let the people who don't have the highest stats or best armor participate in defending the faction, too..at least, I'd imagine so.

 

[Tokuu]

I feel that the 30% damage reduction actually improves the quality of fights when defending.

While out raiding, you're always more organised, more co-ordinated. When attacked, it can take you by surprise, making you less organised and a bit more frantic. The 30% reduction means that the fights can be a lot fairer.

Although, when up against a properly organised defence, it can be a complete pain.

So for those reasons, I believe the damage reduction should be kept the same, as it is only in your own territory, not when defending allies, which is where most of the fighting takes place

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

Lure them out to the wilderness or be on your toes and make multiple sweeps at the enemy such as pot up, attack and get out of there then repeat. Simple really. To be honest I find it more enjoyable for a couple of reasons.

1. It makes fights last longer presenting a challenge and enjoyment.
2. All of the fights I have been in, we are aware of the 30% faction buff so we lure them out and strike. It makes it harder for the attacker to win which it should be. Imagine a 2 vs 3 fight, with only 2 people in the faction that are defending (I know right, not very fun |-()) They will need a buff if they are not very good as it makes it fair if the enemy is of the same skill level or better.

If it is really that hard, revise your tactics which makes it then harder for them to predict and also allows to show the enemies weakness. If not, make them come to you.

 

[thor5648]

Yesterday I ran out while being raided by five people, I had axe resistant and a resistance potion looking back on my recording I had a spammed screen of criticals, my armor was at 5% I had used 2 health potions total, and taken over 5 minutes of hits before I had to run back inside due to my armor. The 30% makes it very hard to die/kill someone when in their own land unless drawn into wilderness...

 

[BenRekt]

I'm surprised this hasn't been nerfed already considering:

• Health boost
• Resistance potions
• Premium buffs
• Absorption potions

Im surprised people can even die during PvP with so many buffs, although I haven't PvP'ed on Massive in a while.

 

[yendor46]

I'm surprised this hasn't been nerfed already considering:

• Health boost
• Resistance potions
• Premium buffs
• Absorption potions

Im surprised people can even die during PvP with so many buffs, although I haven't PvP'ed on Massive in a while.

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There are a large number of attack buffs as well, making for, what to this point has appeared to be, fairly balanced PVP. The staff are constantly watching this issue, but in this case I have to agree with some of the other comments above, that the problem appears to be one of tactics and not unbalanced gameplay.

 

[ZiHAMMER]

The first and the second option should be combined. With pacifist off you have 15% buff and when it is on, you get 30%.

 

[thor5648]

There are a large number of attack buffs as well, making for, what to this point has appeared to be, fairly balanced PVP. The staff are constantly watching this issue, but in this case I have to agree with some of the other comments above, that the problem appears to be one of tactics and not unbalanced gameplay.

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As I said before, I have had five people all with axe expert hitting me, some even had pen strike, with the 30% and a resistance potion I didn't drop below 9 hearts.

 

[Magivore]

๖ۣۜWhy not just use traits like WitherStrike or PoisonStrike? That can subtly ruin someone's day if you stand from a distance with a bow, then even with their little 30% reduction, they will slowly wither away. Unless a person has resistances to that equipped, or milk, they indeed will not be able to just pass by those strikes without needing to stop and heal themselves, thus slowly depleting their healing supplies. Wither also can kill you through armour. Tactics, people. Some of these things you ask to nerf don't need a nerf at all, you just need to be smarter. Not only this, but @Feyona_ also pointed out plenty of grand reasons.
Also, @thor5648 , that was smart to test it out, but the thing you are missing is you had Axe Resistance And Absorption Potions while in the 30% resistant zone. People can only hit you so fast and deal so much damage at once with that half second delay in damage within MC physics, let alone you were resisting the very weapon they were using. There was not a flaw in the resistance, the flaw is that you used a good strategy and they did not.

 

[Shawn]

๖ۣۜWhy not just use traits like WitherStrike or PoisonStrike? That can subtly ruin someone's day if you stand from a distance with a bow, then even with their little 30% reduction, they will slowly wither away. Unless a person has resistances to that equipped, or milk, they indeed will not be able to just pass by those strikes without needing to stop and heal themselves, thus slowly depleting their healing supplies. Tactics, people. Some of these things you ask to nerf don't need a nerf at all, you just need to be smarter. Not only this, but @Feyona_ also pointed out plenty of grand reasons.

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I AM JUST GOING TO HOLD THIS UP, BECAUSE YOU SHOULD READ IT

 

[Mecharic]

Lots of PvPers tell people that if they don't like to be attacked they should learn to PvP. So my response to this is that if you don't like the 30% reduction don't attack people in their own territory.

 

[Magivore]

We have pretty much tried everything to drop people in their own territory, I challenge you to go try to even get someone close to death in their own territory who have resistance to your weapon in hand, try any strategy you want it simply does not work.

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...
๖ۣۜSo change weapons and use potions...? Even if someone had resistance to every weapon you have, it's hard to resist potions if you aim right. Cheap, but it works.

 

[thor5648]

...
๖ۣۜSo change weapons and use potions...? Even if someone had resistance to every weapon you have, it's hard to resist potions if you aim right. Cheap, but it works.

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There are insta health splash healing, one sec I'll post a vid showing it in 30 minutes.

 

[Mecharic]

Thor, quit whining just because you can't kill at will anymore. PvP is meant to be a challenge, not something anyone can kick ass in. Likewise, attacking someone in their own territory is not an easy thing - they know the area, they have support from the 'NPC' population of their town or village, and in many cases they have castles and walls and forts, which would make it even more difficult to kill them. They are also fighting to protect their homes, which has always made people more capable of enduring attacks. The 30% damage reduction is there to symbolize all of those advantages someone has when fighting in their own territory.

 

[gridiron1024]

@EveryoneDisagreeing
I don't think you quite understand how severe this issue is. When is the last time you have gone and raided a faction? Not to be rude, but you shouldn't be making so many judgements without observing or trying a raid. There is a difference between a challenge, and invincibility. No matter how much you scheme to get around resistances, or play support, I can guarantee it will not work as well as you think. I will post a video in a minute to show how obscene this buff really is when stacked with everything else.

As much as you may disagree, I do believe this is an issue. Who will want to raid when everyone defending can simply stand around and do nothing without a risk of dying? This buff completely removes skill factor from raiding. Now, I know this may be a good thing for inexperienced pvpers, but nothing is more frustrating then using skills and pvp knowlege in a 1v1 and still getting wrecked by some scrub who has the time to stop, roleplay, eat, and continue fighting all while you beat on him.

Like I said, I have a video to hopefully prove how OP this is. For anyone who wants to see their tactics, or, plans to beat this put to the test, let me know and I will certainly give it a try.

 

[Mecharic]

I hold Grid's opinion pretty highly despite him being in Mag P) so if he says it's a really big issue I'm willing to listen... perhaps have a limit to the total amount the buffs can stack to, like 50% resistance max buff?

 

[gridiron1024]

Didn't feel like editing it but here is a little video to show how fun the buff is. Keep in mind if I was fighting back the video probably would not have gone that long.

 

[Mecharic]

Grid, with all due respect, they only used axes - I don't think it's possible to buff yourself so that you're immune to all attacks while also getting health and absorption bonuses. So, assuming I'm correct with my judgement, if they used something that wasn't, say, an axe, they would have had more luck. Course, if I'm wrong feel free to point it out. So while that video shows what happens when someone runs into the worst possible enemy (wearing full god and with a ton of pots to burn) it most certainly shows that you live too long.

The solutions are pretty straightforward: you could use a different weapon (bows, unarmed, swords), you could just avoid attacking people in their own territory, you could set up agreements within the PvP community not to abuse traits + damage reduction + potions and only attack those who agree (which would limit PvP for those who don't), you could even take that rather immense chance that your opponent doesn't actually have much in the way of PvP oriented traits (since only PvPers are likely to abuse them).

That said, I liked the idea somewhere that Pacifist True got 30% and Pacifist False got 15%. That seems like a fair way to go about it, and it means that non-PvPers don't lose the buffs, allowing them to get the hell outta there.

 

[gridiron1024]

@Mecharic
Pointing out that it is only axes is somewhat irrelevant. All it would take is one guy running sword res and one axe res, and engage accordingly. If someone tried to use unarmed, I could out damage them with an axe even without resistance, and bows would get wrecked 1v1.

It seems no one even paid attention to the OP. It said to replace it with a trait. I don't see the issue there, since all it does is limits how many resistances you can run.

 

[thor5648]

Grid, with all due respect, they only used axes - I don't think it's possible to buff yourself so that you're immune to all attacks while also getting health and absorption bonuses. So, assuming I'm correct with my judgement, if they used something that wasn't, say, an axe, they would have had more luck. Course, if I'm wrong feel free to point it out. So while that video shows what happens when someone runs into the worst possible enemy (wearing full god and with a ton of pots to burn) it most certainly shows that you live too long.

The solutions are pretty straightforward: you could use a different weapon (bows, unarmed, swords), you could just avoid attacking people in their own territory, you could set up agreements within the PvP community not to abuse traits + damage reduction + potions and only attack those who agree (which would limit PvP for those who don't), you could even take that rather immense chance that your opponent doesn't actually have much in the way of PvP oriented traits (since only PvPers are likely to abuse them).

That said, I liked the idea somewhere that Pacifist True got 30% and Pacifist False got 15%. That seems like a fair way to go about it, and it means that non-PvPers don't lose the buffs, allowing them to get the hell outta there.

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Bows plus unarmed do little to no damage, and a person using archery is usually pretty easy to kill due to them getting destroyed when the enemy gets within 3 blocks, also many pvpers run both sword and axe resistant.

 

[Mecharic]

@Mecharic
Pointing out that it is only axes is somewhat irrelevant. All it would take is one guy running sword res and one axe res, and engage accordingly. If someone tried to use unarmed, I could out damage them with an axe even without resistance, and bows would get wrecked 1v1.

It seems no one even paid attention to the OP. It said to replace it with a trait. I don't see the issue there, since all it does is limits how many resistances you can run.

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If someone has Sword Res and Axe Res they are weakest to unarmed attacks - you axe won't out-do your fists in that situation. Perhaps a limit to the number of Res's that can be added to a players traits?

 

[Magivore]

Didn't feel like editing it but here is a little video to show how fun the buff is. Keep in mind if I was fighting back the video probably would not have gone that long.

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๖ۣۜThat video actually is proving me wrong so some points. The only thing still about me so far is that even with everyone hitting, MC only registers a certain amount of hits, and that they need weaknesses. Even if the other person wasn't present, thor probably would've been doing the same damage at the rate the two are hitting. If there is more evidence against that though with McMMo and what not, I'll be proven wrong once again. Also to mention, a lot of people use the Unholy trait; Test them with a holy water, it sucks away half their health and half their hunger meter, plus you can basically cancel out their 30% faction resistance if they do have it. I will honestly say though, you did prove me wrong through a lot of what I said, their speed of death and all. I did pay attention to the other traits above by the way, I just felt like it wasn't necessary at the time. Nice job on finding some pretty strong proof though.

 

[Mecharic]

I honestly just don't want to see the faction reduction removed. It gives defenders like me that boost we need to actually not die.

 

[SkywardSword]

Let me just point this out.

Who is most affected by this issue? PvPers of course, we're the ones who have to deal with it and fight through this.

Then let me point you in the direction of the agree/disagree list. If you look at the names, most of the players who agree ARE PvPers and know firsthand how OP the damage reduction is. Now look at the disagree portion, not meaning to offend anyone, but they are all roleplayers, inactive or frankly don't know what they're talking about when it comes to PvP.

Just something to remember.

 

[Feyona]

Snip!

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Also something to remember is the fact that PVPers are the only ones who benefit from this-- as it means they're free to go raid those weaker roleplay factions and get faster kills. The 30% reduction is put in place to protect weaker factions like this, as it's a fair counter balance to the strength of the PVPers who go and raid them.

The 30% isn't put in place to help PVPers, it's put in place to help people who are getting attacked by those PVPers, and therefore, that's why it's fair: it protects people from relentless deaths in raids.

If you don't want to deal with the 30%, kill people in wilderness instead of raiding on other home territories and you wouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[Snakeeeer]

@Snake welcome to roleplay world.

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Yay I always wanted to be a roleplayer.

 

[krios41]

Bows plus unarmed do little to no damage, and a person using archery is usually pretty easy to kill due to them getting destroyed when the enemy gets within 3 blocks, also many pvpers run both sword and axe resistant.

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first of all, i do not pvp very much i don't know everything about it, but what i do know is that someone who uses bow can kill withing 3 blocks if he uses bows a lot (like me) i do not know about the dmg part though but a skilled archer+punchII should keep the attacker away

 

[starkiller_117]

The way I see it if your going into another persons land to kill them and whining that its to hard, you might want to stick to just hunting in wilderness.

 

[Madus]

Yes it CAN be OP. But when is it OP?
Defender have full god armour.
Defender have healthboost and absorption.
Defender has resistance potions to use, when they gets attacked.
Defender has Axe/sword resistant.

Who has all of this ready, a random day getting attacked?
Big PvP'ers.
Who don't?
Small factions, this feature was meant to help.

4 out 5 of these, will most people not have ready when getting raided. But the attacker will. Then they have to wait five minutes to change traits. Go to house and get potions.

When the attacker has most of this ready. Including other potions like strength and speed. In most cases the attacker are prepared and he defender isn't. So unless you warn people beforehand, you still have the advantage.

 

[inactiveaccount]

mag just wants this so they can make it easier on themselves

 

[TheTerrawr]

mag just wants this so they can make it easier on themselves

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Uh. No. This would make it harder to defend themselves, and trust me, Raptum raid them enough for them to want this if it was fair.

 

[gridiron1024]

mag just wants this so they can make it easier on themselves

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Did you even read the thread or watch the video? Chances are, you did not. This is a legitimate issue that has support from people on both sides. You saying that is quite ignorant and it is clear you came to this thread with no intention of being constructive, but rather to just flame.

 

[DisturbedReaper]

Remove pl0x

 

[Mecharic]

I just feel that this needs restating...

Lots of PvPers tell people that if they don't like to be attacked they should learn to PvP. So my response to this is that if you don't like the 30% reduction don't attack people in their own territory.

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You can whine all you want about the 'unfairness' of this, but the simple fact is that this is ABSOLUTELY FAIR. If you are attacked, you get the bonus - whether you are a PvPer or an RPer. Regardless of skill, rank, premium, or time on the server you WILL get this bonus if you are attacked on your factions territory.

There is literally nothing unfair about this - it just makes it more difficult for people to attack.

 

[gridiron1024]

@Mecharic
Fairness and whether it is balanced and fun are two different things.

 

[Mecharic]

@Mecharic
Fairness and whether it is balanced and fun are two different things.

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Oh in that case...

MCmmo is not balanced. It allows some people to become gods while limiting the abilities of others. It is also not fun to be raided, so PvP should totes be nerfed! I mean, comon, if someone can just slaughter and entire faction without ANY resistance, whats the fun of that?

In all honesty, compared to the other glaring issues with traits, this seems to be an insignificant issue. All it does it make attacking enemy factions a lot more difficult, when it should never have been easy to win on their turf in the first place.

 

[Joshy54100]

Oh in that case...

MCmmo is not balanced. It allows some people to become gods while limiting the abilities of others. It is also not fun to be raided, so PvP should totes be nerfed! I mean, comon, if someone can just slaughter and entire faction without ANY resistance, whats the fun of that?

In all honesty, compared to the other glaring issues with traits, this seems to be an insignificant issue. All it does it make attacking enemy factions a lot more difficult, when it should never have been easy to win on their turf in the first place.

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The bonus of being on your land should come with the increased familiarity and any defenses you have built into your land, not from a plugin. The first way encourages strategy and tactics, the second one discourages raiding, which is bad for the PvP community in general.

 

[Mecharic]

The bonus of being on your land should come with the increased familiarity and any defenses you have built into your land, not from a plugin. The first way encourages strategy and tactics, the second one discourages raiding, which is bad for the PvP community in general.

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Well in that case shouldn't the only advantages come from strategy and increased knowledge of how to use a weapon with pots, not a plugin (MCmmo)? You want to remove the only safety net that non-PvPers have when attacked because it makes it very much harder for you to win on their territory. By that logic, all PLUGINS that make PvP more difficult should be removed, like MCmmo, the no-armor-drops, and traits in general. Your logic is therefore flawed to it's core.