Massive Is Dying Akk Everyone Yelllllllllllllll!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lady_Moselberg said:
The idea is being brought up over and over. The main issue is usually the attitude of "making PvPers useful for roleplayers" or "integrating PvPers in roleplay" but never the other way around. What would a PvPer gain from sponsorship? How will Pvzpers align based on RP and not OOC bias or connections?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The main problem is that frankly, rpers do not like pvpers. I blame years of factions bullying rpers with raids, something Belegost is actuvely trying to stop.
 
Alj23 said:
Then how do we go about getting something like this created, added, and functioning for the players?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You need to kick these types of questions upstairs. That's WAY above my pay grade. I just care about the community and I make the Daily Creepers. It saddens me to tag him in a thread with such an embarrassing title but maybe it's time for @MonMarty to take a look.
 
The only two cents I'll throw in here is that I joined massive for factions, but I grew bored of survival incredibly fast, so somehow I ended up in RP. I have a vault factions where I store lore items and survival gear, but very rarely do I actually use any of it. I have no reason to play survival actively, since I basically have all the late game items I could want.

I did see a few suggestions I liked reading, primarily finding something to incentive being the top faction in COK. Bragging right get stale after about an hour. The only issue I see in this is that it needs to be balanced and fair.

One passing thought would be to reward the winning faction of each month with an armor piece or weapon with no other enchantments on it, but one higher than vanilla enchant. So a diamond sword with sharpness 6, or a chest piece with protection 5. Epic pink lore coloring on it. If the whole set is able to be collected together (which would be about 8-9 months if one factions always dominates), the faction can exchange the entire set for a red legendary lore item, having 2 above vanilla enchants or something like that. Or maybe earning the tax exempt flag on the faction, idk.

At first glance, this seems kinda weird since it gives a faction an op weapon stat, but I think having no other enchantments on it wold balance things out. They're not supposed to be used in PvP, but to collect an entire set to trade in for the real
prize.

Again, this is just one odd idea. I don't see it being viable since you can just /bp the items and never have them stolen and the game goes on for years with no short term reward.

Another idea would be to have world staff create some dungeons and place them in a faction world (or a new map purely for them). Each dungeon would be filled with various mob spawners that generate hard to beat massivemobs. Players would need to band together to try and make it to the end and destroy all the mob spawners in the dungeon. They would then confront a boss mob, and when defeated would allow the faction to loot the treasure trove, filled with some epic loot.

The concept with this is that the loot at the end should be extremely hard to obtain (like, you'd need an entire army of maybe 30 players to get it.) Maybe a Quest can be written up that generates the mobs to defeat, while unlocking more of the dungeon as factions progress.

The idea with this is that there is a rare item hidden behind waves of super tough mobs, and it requires an active player base to obtain said item. To make it more rewarding, the item would simply be a little note to PM a staff member to reward each player that participated with the same lore item. Could be the same type of items mentioned before.

I have limited experiences with survival, so I'll my suggestions for the time being. Maybe these would be fun, maybe not. Up to y'all.
 
I absolutely support the dungeons idea. I like the idea of getting the squad together and fighting a whole boatload if mobs Game of Thrones S7 style
 
Lady_Moselberg said:
What would a PvPer gain from sponsorship? How will Pvzpers align based on RP and not OOC bias or connections?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People (rpers, but it would be a collaborate) would offer bets and put stakes on things, picture a house(1) challenging another house(2) to a duel, house1 sets the stakes at 2 sets of god armor, house2 accepts, the champions face off. House2 wins the fight taking home the armor. If house1 won the duel then house2 would have to pay house1 the armor.


Only it doesn't have to be armor it can be anything, potions/weapon/regals heck it could be for as little or as much as you care to bet. The stakes would be set before the duel.

After a house wins X amount of duels they get a reward from the emperor or something, I'm thinking regal reward but idk.

If a house declines X amount of duels there is a "shame" placed on it?

There would be a lot to work out, especially for challenging to be fair, maybe no penalty at all for refusing to duel? Only an IC thing that wouldn't cost too much? Also we wouldn't want a large house to only challenge smaller ones all the time, (based on the skill of their champions so it'll always be in the large houses favor).
 
Metallum_ said:
People (rpers, but it would be a collaborate) would offer bets and put stakes on things, picture a house(1) challenging another house(2) to a duel, house1 sets the stakes at 2 sets of god armor, house2 accepts, the champions face off. House2 wins the fight taking home the armor. If house1 won the duel then house2 would have to pay house1 the armor.


Only it doesn't have to be armor it can be anything, potions/weapon/regals heck it could be for as little or as much as you care to bet. The stakes would be set before the duel.

After a house wins X amount of duels they get a reward from the emperor or something, I'm thinking regal reward but idk.

If a house declines X amount of duels there is a "shame" placed on it?

There would be a lot to work out, especially for challenging to be fair, maybe no penalty at all for refusing to duel? Only an IC thing that wouldn't cost too much? Also we wouldn't want a large house to only challenge smaller ones all the time, (based on the skill of their champions so it'll always be in the large houses favor).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd agree with this were it not for the fact that CERTAIN players call that the whole competition is rigged when they lose
 
Winterless said:
I absolutely support the dungeons idea. I like the idea of getting the squad together and fighting a whole boatload if mobs Game of Thrones S7 style
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Quest department has a Dungeon project that was stuck in development for various reasons but is currently back on the board. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Note that "dungeons" here means preset areas in a Quest world.
 
I mean turn the idea of dark rooms, into winding, branching, get lost as a blind rat danger around any corner deep dives.
 
Alj23 said:
Why can't I continue to formulate ideas and hand them off to the staff and have them worked into realization as happens in lore? If there was a Survival department I'd love to work in it. But alas, there is none.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A variety of reasons:
  • Lore doesn't accept formulated ideas that are handed off at all. 90% of the core content is generated by me alone, and we don't take submissions from players aside from writing background characters, animals, or plants, which is fringe lore.
  • Any time attempts were made to create a Survival centric department, the turnover rate of such a department was so catastrophically low that Direction gave up. If I recall only a single person out of all aspirants who tried out for PVP dep. ended up flowing into main staff, and then quitting after 2 months. The turnover rate in Lore staff is 1 failed applicant per year in comparison.
  • Many of your suggestions require months worth of coding, which we simply don't have the resources for. Massive is making by on maintenance only based tech protocols right now. Tech recruitment is open and working, we recently got a talented new coder, but introduction and involvement is slow and doesn't happen overnight.
The Meritocratic ideals of Massive further complicate people who just want to have opinions for the sake of having opinions and then handing them off expecting other people to do the work for them. It's not so much an "excuse" that there isn't enough manpower, it's more so simply a facet of the form we choose to govern ourselves that puts ahead people who prove they are capable by work ethic, experience and quality of delivery, ahead of people who have none of those. I'll try and draw a concrete example:

Lore department works because, and I'm not trying to blow my own horn here, but because it has me. Survival does not work because it does not have a person "like me" that stands up and takes charge. For Lore I provide centralized vision, ambition, work ethic, strict control, and a workhorse attitude that equals 8 other members in the department purely by work quantity alone.

Tokuu and Alj present an idea. It is up to me decide whether Tokuu or Alj's idea is pressed through and whether or not manpower is assigned to that. On one hand, I have Tokuu, staff, who has stayed with the staff even while his friends attacked him for doing so, he weathered motivation and verbal abuse to try and make massive a better place. He has implemented a system that has proven to be capable of handling at least 50 players, even if that is not the entire server, it's a success in the scope that it is functioning anyway. Alj on the other hand, a player, did not fare quite as well, and is largely responsible for the Alj amendment in the Codex which is still used this day to teach staff members how not to sabotage your own department's workflow. He also has a notorious reputation of investing on non-rendable build projects and then getting stuck with towering tax costs that go nowhere. Tokuu retains a professional attitude, while spending some time meme'ing, retains a constructive and productive outlook on things. Alj meanwhile spends most of his time writing walls of text that in most cases lack constructive context and are laced with insult, or just downright spending time shit-talking in Alliance chat about how the people that hold the very fabric of the server together are supposedly the ones destroying it.
​
MassiveCraft runs on a system of Scandinavian meritocratic evaluation, in which nearly all cases, staff win, because of the automatic and provable implication of their work product, as opposed to this weird common-core-esque American "participation prize" attitude where just because someone has an opinion, it somehow deserves a center piece stage and a spotlight. The reality is, and there is no kind way of saying this without making you upset: I have reasons to ignore what you say, because what you say carries a risk that I consider dangerous, and lending legitimacy to an underlining toxic narrative that I do not condone, and in many ways is targeted at me. As much as you like to proclaim that I have no idea what I am doing, you have less of an idea what you are doing, when you refuse to acknowledge that this server would have shut down in 2016 if I hadn't been here.

For the sake of remaining productive however, let's say these data are all based on outdated concepts. Let's say the situation has changed, and let's say for the sake of playing the Devil's Advocate that I'm wrong. Regardless of these facts, we are not going to institute a system where players are just going to hand off ideas and expect the staff to do all the work for it, no matter how right they think they are and how they think it's going to rescue the server from oblivion, purely because staff think the exact same thing, but the difference is that they are the ones putting in the work in to realize their own ideas, instead just patting their shoulder for coming up with the idea and then trouncing off expecting it all to work and taking none of the responsibility for it if it doesn't. This isn't a "staff versus players" situation. All staff were once players, and continue to be players. To me staff and players are the same, the only difference being that staff players give more than they take, and in many ways even get scrutinized for being staff more than they deserve.

A Survival department is a realistic possibility, heck, I would even welcome it. It would solve this weird situation where Lore staff who have never set foot in survival are being guilt-blamed for not doing work on survival, and where Game-Staff who already have a large work load somehow get saddled with something they don't have the time for.

The only thing it really needs at this point is for someone with a work ethic like me to stand up and say "Yes I will fix this".
 
@MonMarty

Glad to know I set a standard within the codex for a situation I have been made aware of in the past but have never been explained the details of. You allude to this every once in awhile when we argue but yet to this day haven't explained a single thing to me about it. You continue to base your arguments against me on a situation only you have knowledge of and use it as a catch-all argument winner anytime you need to refute anything I say.

@DrFong

Thanks for engaging with me to start, but I won't be continuing this conversation in a public forum. The person you tagged into this thread spent the majority of their response leveling personal attacks at me, comparing me to a staff member I never worked with who works in a vastly different time frame then I did, then attempts to "remain productive" in the last part despite the personal attacks leveled before. You can see how one doesn't want to continue providing input when that level of personal attack is used. MonMarty even stated he has reasons to ignore me, of which I'm not aware, so I don't think anything I had to say was ultimately going to go anywhere anyway. You are a good PR staff, so thank you sincerely for your initial engagement with me.
 
Alj23 said:
base your arguments against me on a situation only you have knowledge of
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I tried to not make this a call-out post, but now you've sort of pushed me into a corner where I need to elaborate, as much as you endeavored to only respond to 10 words of the 1000 or so I wrote. I'll try to keep this concise to avoid this becoming central to the thread:
Pertinent to:
Relevant with:
  • Leversandpulleys lodging several complaints against your person for having an aggressively argumentative attitude.
  • Leversandpulleys lodging several complaints against you for failing to meet deadlines set for simple tasks.
  • Imboring56 lodging several complaints against you for claiming work on the staff worksheet, not delivering, but refusing to relent on work that was crucial for a deadline, thus pushing the work deadlines of the entire project back, and throwing a fit if imboring decided he could complete the project without you. This in particular resulted in the codex amendment that characterizes that staff members must step aside if they cannot deliver work on time and not prevent others from completing it.
  • Requiring numerous conversations between yourself and Leversandpulleys to convince you to "normalize" communication within the staff and towards your fellow team members.
Of course anyone reading this will only have my word to go off on this. Most of this data backs from a time when staff weren't open about why we dismissed staff members (or quit, I can't recall. To me quitting 2 weeks before being auto-timed is the same as being kicked). Of course there is the Change log, which roughly indicates Direction members spent more time actually talking to you, than you actually doing work which contributed to the overall server value. There's that too.

Again, these are not personal attacks, these are stated facts. Facts have no morality, they don't care for your feelings, and having this very "fake news" response is unbecoming of someone who claims they want to move the server ahead. You saying I have no idea what I am doing is an opinion. Me saying you were, in retrospect, a bad staff member by protocols set out by the staff as a whole, is fact. The moment you start calling facts insults, you degrade their value and lose sight over what you're really talking about, which was me explaining why I choose to invest more manpower in Tokuu's ideas, than yours.

I repeat again, I welcome anyone who thinks they can equal me in sheer productivity and work ethic to stand up and take charge of survival. The Meritocracy rewards anyone who can do that, and even people who might have performed badly in the past might re-establish and redeem themselves as long as egos can be put aside, and the common good of the server can be put at the top.
 
@MonMarty
Challenge Accepted. Make it official that a survival department is being formed and I'll apply.

I'm getting exceptionally fed up with player's ideas being ignored just because they don't have a blue name. You already stated that players are staff who put in more effort, so your only argument for seemingly ignoring players who offer ideas that are generally liked ultimately becomes an argument to authority, which is about as fallacious as you get.

I'm not gonna sit and bitch about it on the forums though. Open a Survival department, and I'll Captain Kirk it, half to make the server better, half because I'm frustrated with being constantly ignored and mocked by staff if I ever dare criticise anyone in their blue name community.

I'm tired of it, and I'm gonna do something about it. Ball's in your court fam
 
giphy.gif
 
Aye Aye Captain! What are ye first orders ?
 
MonMarty said:
I welcome anyone who thinks they can equal me in sheer productivity and work ethic to stand up and take charge of survival.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...you called?

You know I can produce the work and my integrity is through the roof.

I mean when i was a game aspirant yall decided on 4tv, onearmsquid, and Neckerei over me LOL.. I was producing more work than them as aspirants and you see how they turned out, as far as ethic is concerned. And some of that shit they did (especially on the forums) you still havent even found yet!! And yet, it wasnt work production or integrity, but rather how well they fit in with the staff milieu, which is apparently a higher priority.

So @MonMarty please forgive me if im skeptical when you say work ethic and work production are your priorities.
 
Last edited:
Winterless said:
@MonMarty
Challenge Accepted. Make it official that a survival department is being formed and I'll apply.

I'm getting exceptionally fed up with player's ideas being ignored just because they don't have a blue name. You already stated that players are staff who put in more effort, so your only argument for seemingly ignoring players who offer ideas that are generally liked ultimately becomes an argument to authority, which is about as fallacious as you get.

I'm not gonna sit and lover about it on the forums though. Open a Survival department, and I'll Captain Kirk it, half to make the server better, half because I'm frustrated with being constantly ignored and mocked by staff if I ever dare criticise anyone in their blue name community.

I'm tired of it, and I'm gonna do something about it. Ball's in your court fam
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
^^^
 
Winterless said:
@MonMarty
Challenge Accepted. Make it official that a survival department is being formed and I'll apply.

I'm getting exceptionally fed up with player's ideas being ignored just because they don't have a blue name. You already stated that players are staff who put in more effort, so your only argument for seemingly ignoring players who offer ideas that are generally liked ultimately becomes an argument to authority, which is about as fallacious as you get.

I'm not gonna sit and lover about it on the forums though. Open a Survival department, and I'll Captain Kirk it, half to make the server better, half because I'm frustrated with being constantly ignored and mocked by staff if I ever dare criticise anyone in their blue name community.

I'm tired of it, and I'm gonna do something about it. Ball's in your court fam
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Zacatero said:
...you called?

You know I can produce the work and my integrity is through the roof.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

What's your plan to reinvigorate the Factions/PvP community? Do you have any sort of road-map or list of potential changes that haven't been recommended yet?

I don't see the creation of a new department, with the same responsibilities as the current Game department, really being a viable solution to the issues that our community face. Without this new department being radically different in its responsibilities and operations.
 
Maytee said:
What's your plan to reinvigorate the Factions/PvP community? Do you have any sort of road-map or list of potential changes that haven't been recommended yet?

I don't see the creation of a new department, with the same responsibilities as the current Game department, really being a viable solution to the issues that our community face. Without this new department being radically different in its responsibilities and operations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Are you asking me to do your job for you, when im not even an aspirant?

Because other than the countless suggestions that have been suggested over the forums in the last 6 months alone, I dont know what youre really asking for here.

I dont think you are asking for an idea from me or @Winterless that's bound to fix Massive completely.. especially when we arent even on the staff
 
Zacatero said:
Are you asking me to do your job for you, when im not even an aspirant?

Because other than the countless suggestions that have been suggested over the forums in the last 6 months alone, I dont know what youre really asking for here.

I dont think you are asking for an idea from me or @Winterless that's bound to fix Massive completely.. especially when we arent even on the staff
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah weren't you staff, what happened b
 
Zacatero said:
Are you asking me to do your job for you, when im not even an aspirant?

Because other than the countless suggestions that have been suggested over the forums in the last 6 months alone, I dont know what youre really asking for here.

I dont think you are asking for an idea from me or @Winterless that's bound to fix Massive completely.. especially when we arent even on the staff
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You should read his post again because you are offering your support and idealogy, to help a part of Massive you don't even play, he's asking for solutions and not for you to "do his job for him" chillax kiddo
 
i got a good idea

when someone throws shade just ignore it and let them look like a headass and just carry on being productive and try to "fix" your "mineman experience" or whatever the hell is going on idek anymore
 
Zacatero said:
So @MonMarty please forgive me if im skeptical when you say work ethic and work production are your priorities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Any business considers social liabilities a problem. The above mentioned people each had their own issues, as did you, at the time. It is absolutely 100% about productivity, but in order to fall under that supervision, you need to fit a certain social profile. The social profile being not going apeshit on your team members or being deceitful.

Winterless said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

okok so aside from the quick scrabble i'm tossing in,
7ba569e10b5b4c00af3325fd0a32efce.png

we do have a pretty decent record of fulfilling player suggestions and requests, even if they are only a few of the many that come in, we do actually really seriously consider them, or at the very least partially implement, or at the least reply to them why they cannot be done. Even if we don't always answer them, we certainly implement more than enough to bust any attempt to say we just "always ignore players".

(ignore the shitty linking sequence)

All memes aside tho, kock yourself out: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/new-survival-department-looking-for-recruits.65071/

Yas Queen Slay!!!11!11 Blow me away with your ability to help the server we all l0ve
 
Beep Boop. Thread closed. Let's work on this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

hardname12
  • Locked
  • Poll Poll
Massive Dying?
Replies
11
Views
2K
General
Omnomivore
Omnomivore
pushpins
Elections For Everyone!
Replies
1
Views
509
General
Film_Noir
Film_Noir
Blanclour
My Long Journey And Return To Massive
Replies
4
Views
895
Introductions
diCardinale
diCardinale
Alj23
What Massivecraft Was, Is, And What It Can Become.
Replies
13
Views
2K
General
Aespair
Aespair
65jes89
  • Locked
  • Suggestion Suggestion
Archived 1.9: Features, What They Do, And How Massive Should Handle Them.
Replies
52
Views
3K
Suggestion Archive
Omnomivore
Omnomivore
Top Bottom