Archived Ideas To Heal The Pvp & Rp Divide

Genecide65 · Jun 16, 2017

Today in general chat several members of the community, including myself, had a healthy discussion on ideas of how we could possibly make the factions world popular and stop "PVPers" and "Roleplayers" from arguing and to unite them. Here is what we got:

1. Give Factions Lore - We have come up with the idea to give factions their own lore. We believe this could help get factions, especially the ones that are PVP based or just survival, to lean toward roleplay. This can also make players more active as try to become more popular in lore and gain more power as well as make the factions world more active. Also someone said that we maybe could have a area or wiki where faction lore can be put and anyone could edit it. Maybe faction leaders can create the lore and send it to the lore staff and staff can approve it? (To check that a faction isn't saying they own all of Aloria or Regalia and have a small loan of 1 million soldiers at their hand.)

2. Safe Cities - Another idea that was introduced during the discussion is to create safe cities. I myself am not certain about this one, because if not handled correctly this may ruin PVP, but if a faction/location is large enough and populated enough and powerful enough (and probably good looking enough) that they could become a designated roleplay area within the faction world. This could help attract people who spend all their time in Regalia to give the faction worlds a chance, and to draw more people to factions. This can also give players motivation, especially the people who stay in Regalia most of the time, to create their own "civilization" to try to become stronger and achieve becoming a safe city. Now I know what some are thinking, "Well what about PVP? Now we cant raid in the faction worlds either?", Well, we had the idea that if you own a large enough party of people that you could raid or besiege cities. It makes sense roleplay and realism wise, in the medieval ages 1 man does not just rush into a city all on his own and slaughters the common folk and soldiers without planning or help from his people. You could make an application that at this time of day these people will raid whatever city. I think it would make for some good battles. However, I think that it should be EXTREMELY difficult to become a safe city. If anyone and everyone could become a safe city, then PVP would be ruined for sure.

3. Return of Races? - I know, this has been an argument that has gone on for ages, and if I remember correctly the old races code isn't compatible with current minecraft and that it is outdated. Myself and some others have agreed that the divide between RP and PVP really started to show up when races was removed. Races added some roleplay feel to PVP, and got the attention of roleplayers. I think that traits should be removed because they are useless for PVP now because they disable when you enter combat. I believe we should re-create races because it will help give PVP a roleplay sort of touch and will attract roleplayers to survival/PVP because of its roleplay feel. People will be able to Roleplay at what race they are if they wanted to, or Elven based factions can be Elves and Dwarves can be Dwarves and give them the "Hey, we are actually dwarves, we arnt just pretending." vibe. I understand that it may be hard for the creators of the massivecraft plug-ins to create a new races plug-in, but if they really need to, you can call out to the massivecraft community because i'm sure their are players who want races back that are willing to volunteer and help create it.

4. More Faction Power or Less/No Upkeep - This is another topic that was introduced. In Regalia, the people only have to worry about paying 300r a month (depending on what you are buying) for their well made and aesthetically appealing house. In the faction worlds, some factions (like Insani) have to pay nearly 300r a /day/ to keep their faction land. I think that factions should get more perks for having to pay so much to keep their faction alive or they should have lower or no upkeep to pay (If you remove upkeep I suggest you remove taxes too because then owners can just milk money out of members. Taxes is used to help take the load off owners so that they can pay the upkeep, not to go into the faction leader's pockets.) This will help take stress off of faction leaders and persuade others to create their own communities.

5. Harder To Make Factions - Last idea, but not least. I and several others agree that factions should be harder to make. Back in the day I had to work my arse off every day to earn silver and copper because I really wanted to create my own faction where I was the king and that I could rule my own people and not having to listen to other leaders orders. This idea of owning my own faction kept me online for hours a day making money. Right before I made Insani regals became the new currency and I worked up to 1000 regals and was able to create my own faction. The feeling I had when I pressed enter after typing "/f create Insani" made me so happy, I felt so achieved. I think it should be harder to create factions because it will give people something to work for and to stay on longer for and in the end make them feel achieved and proud of what they have done. It will make things more realistic too, not every man and women were able to get up and go "Hey, today I have decided I want to be a king." It was a process, you needed to be popular and needed to be rich. If factions were harder to create, then their would be no need for such high upkeep either.

I did not create this to start a war between "roleplayers and PVPers" and I hope none will start one. I just want what is best for massivecraft honestly, and I believe these ideas will help make it better and more popular. I miss the old days where the server was full, 300/300, and how there were no roleplayers and pvpers argueing because there were no roleplayers or pvpers. There were just /Players/. Everything went well together, people rped in the faction world. Instead of finding someone in Ithania and then potting up to gank them from behind there were groups of bandits who would wander the roads and halt players and tell them to give them coin or face death. There were taverns and other player made businesses in the faction worlds that people created and ran and their would be groups of people who traveled there to RP and some people went there to PVP. Not all people got along, but the whole game did. I today own a very old faction with 12,000 regals in the bank and own double chests of god gear and have 50 players at my command however I sometimes wish giving it all up to go back to the old days when I was a poor, powerless farmer in Leyowiin because those days were the most fun days I have ever had on this server. I believe if even just one of these ideas were implemented, massive could step one foot closer to becoming greater then it has ever been before.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
not just "saving the faction worlds and pvp and that Regalia is already fine" like some people have stated.

Is there something wrong with that statement? No Regalian roleplayer has brought up any problems with Regalia here, nor has anyone mentioned how any of this would benefit Regalia. All of these suggestions and ideas are for the benefit of the faction worlds only.

Conflee · Jun 17, 2017

Enkiduu said:
Is there something wrong with that statement? No Regalian roleplayer has brought up any problems with Regalia here, nor has anyone mentioned how any of this would benefit Regalia. All of these suggestions and ideas are for the benefit of the faction worlds only.

To be honest, as a roleplayer, Regalia doesnt need much more boost. Once Crime and Surface RP have been merged, via the Slums (Crime area) being moved onto the Regalia map, the RP community will be one big community again.

Really the side of this that needs help is PVP, as even most survival people are solidly stating PVP is dead or dying.

Also this isnt about the WORLDS per say. Its about the players. It doesnt matter if these changes are only benefiting the factions WORLDS because they are meant to bring more RP Players to those worlds, so everyone will be benefiting either way.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

conflicttFTW said:
To be honest, as a roleplayer, Regalia doesnt need much more boost. Once Crime and Surface RP have been merged, via the Slums (Crime area) being moved onto the Regalia map, the RP community will be one big community again.

Really the side of this that needs help is PVP, as even most survival people are solidly stating PVP is dead or dying.

Exactly.

To use a rather apt analogy, Regalia is the thriving city while the factions are the desolate lands. Regalians themselves have no problem with this system, it's only the faction survivalists and PvPers who need help. As such, bridging the gap is simply a one-sided attempt to siphon some of Regalia's prosperity and let it bleed out into the faction worlds. My point is that we shouldn't be trying to siphon Regalia, we should be aiming to improve the faction worlds so they can stand as tall as Regalia on their own merits.

Enkiduu said:
All of these suggestions and ideas are for the benefit of the faction worlds only.

conflicttFTW said:
Also this isnt about the WORLDS per say. It doesnt matter if these changes are only benefiting the factions WORLDS because they are meant to bring more RP Players to those worlds, so everyone will be benefiting either way.

I don't mean to imply that that's a bad thing, I'm merely trying to be honest by not speaking under the pretense that this is to benefit Regalia, because I don't feel it is. Regalia functions well because it's got a concentrated mass of players in one place. Dividing them up into different areas breaks that system. The target audience of these suggestions shouldn't be Regalian roleplayers, but survivalist roleplayers and faction roleplayers, whether those currently on the server or potential new players that like that sort of thing.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
Have you read the whole thing or skimmed through it? Because I have stated how this will help roleplayers and regalia.

Please quote those statements.

Genecide65 said:
And yeah, there is a problem, because if the server was united and worked together then we can accomplish so much more and attract so many more people.

I'm only being honest when I say that that's a very blanket statement with no actual backing. I feel you're trying to please everyone by claiming to help everyone. But my point is that not everyone needs helping, nor do they want it, especially when some Regalian roleplayers have said themselves that they have no interest in this. I'm not against bridging the gap, I'm just trying to be realistic with the situation at hand. Trying to please everyone isn't gonna get anywhere or yield results, being realistic and pragmatic will.

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
this could help get factions, especially the ones that are PVP based or just survival, to lean toward roleplay.

Genecide65 said:
his can also make players more active

Genecide65 said:
Myself and some others have agreed that the divide between RP and PVP really started to show up when races was removed. Races added some roleplay feel to PVP, and got the attention of roleplayers.

Genecide65 said:
I think it should be harder to create factions because it will give people something to work for and to stay on longer for and in the end make them feel achieved and proud of what they have done.

Genecide65 said:
can help the whole server by bring TONS more players too, which would mean ALOT more RP, PVP, and over all server activity, so everyone would get something good out of this

@Enkiduu

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

Enkiduu said:
I feel you're trying to please everyone by claiming to help everyone. But my point is that not everyone needs helping, nor do they want it, especially when some Regalian roleplayers have said themselves that they have no interest in this.

Like I stated in the initial post, this is a group of ideas SEVERAL people created all in-game, not just "me trying to please everyone". And I even stated that I know some people might not agree on some of the ideas in the initial post too. You may not want help, but I am curious, why would you not want more players on the server? How does that hurt you?

Enkiduu said:
To use a rather apt analogy, Regalia is the thriving city while the factions are the desolate lands. Regalians themselves have no problem with this system, it's only the faction survivalists and PvPers who need help. As such, bridging the gap is simply a one-sided attempt to siphon some of Regalia's prosperity and let it bleed out into the faction worlds. My point is that we shouldn't be trying to siphon Regalia, we should be aiming to improve the faction worlds so they can stand as tall as Regalia on their own merits.

It is not a one-sided attempt to siphon Regalia's prosperity because in the end it could make Regalia and Factions both prosperous, and Regalia even more prosperous then it already is. Once again, what is wrong with more improvement?

MyCatBubbles · Jun 17, 2017

I personally believe the problem lies in Regalia and the strong focus on that and nothing else. Currently this server should be called "Medieval Factions PVP server with 1 small safe rping city". With the addition of Factions Lore and Safe Cities this server could then be taken seriously as a roleplaying server. Currently PVPing is absolutely dominating RP, there would be no such thing as RPing on this server if Regalia didn't exist and if Regalia didn't exist roleplaying would be really secretive and quiet in fear of being raided. if this server were a true RP/PVP server then there would be a nice balance between the two, which there isn't as there is truely only 1 safe city you can roleplay at yet theres hundred of nice bases / towers / castles / towns you can PVP at.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
this could help get factions, especially the ones that are PVP based or just survival, to lean toward roleplay.

his can also make players more active

Myself and some others have agreed that the divide between RP and PVP really started to show up when races was removed. Races added some roleplay feel to PVP, and got the attention of roleplayers.

I think it should be harder to create factions because it will give people something to work for and to stay on longer for and in the end make them feel achieved and proud of what they have done.

can help the whole server by bring TONS more players too, which would mean ALOT more RP, PVP, and over all server activity, so everyone would get something good out of this

It is not a one-sided attempt to siphon Regalia's prosperity because in the end it could make Regalia and Factions both prosperous, and Regalia even more prosperous then it already is. Once again, what is wrong with more improvement?

Again, all of these benefit the faction worlds, or are meant to drive roleplayers into the faction worlds. Regalia works by concentrating a massive amount of roleplayers in one area to create a very active and vibrant roleplay hotspot. Spreading that out would break that system. My point is that we shouldn't be trying to convert roleplayers into factions, we should be improving factions to attract new players, survivalists and PvPers.

Genecide65 said:
You may not want help

You assume I speak as a roleplayer but I'm not. I'd ask you to reread my posts, especially my first post here. I'm here in this thread as a survivalist wanting factions to thrive more. I'm simply able to see things from the roleplayer's point of view.

Genecide65 said:
I am curious, why would you not want more players on the server? How does that hurt you?

When have I ever said or implied that? In fact, I don't believe I ever actually disagreed with any of your suggestions. I'm only disagreeing with your mindset, the idea that this will benefit Regalian roleplayers. Please don't generalize that to mean I'm somehow disagreeing with everything you believe in.

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

Enkiduu said:
Again, all of these benefit the faction worlds, or are meant to drive roleplayers into the faction worlds. Regalia works by concentrating a massive amount of roleplayers in one area to create a very active and vibrant roleplay hotspot. Spreading that out would break that system. My point is that we shouldn't be trying to convert roleplayers into factions, we should be improving factions to attract new players, survivalists and PvPers.

Like I said several times before this could bring new players to the server and will keep them here... Which means that the population of the server and /Regalia/ will increase.

Enkiduu said:
You assume I speak as a roleplayer but I'm not. I'd ask you to reread my posts, especially my first post here. I'm here in this thread as a survivalist wanting factions to thrive more. I'm simply able to see things from the roleplayer's point of view.

When did I ever say you were a roleplayer? You were saying these ideas would take players away from Regalia, and i'm telling you how it will help Regalia.

Enkiduu said:
You're trying to slander me. When have I ever said or implied that? In fact, I don't believe I ever actually disagreed with any of your suggestions. I'm only disagreeing with your mindset, the idea that this will benefit Regalian roleplayers. Please don't generalize that to mean I'm somehow disagreeing with everything you believe in.

Im just wondering why you said this, don't have to say im trying to slander you. Also arn't you the one who is generalizing stuff? You said Regalians dont need help. Who did you ask? I've talked to SEVERAL Roleplayers recently, and I can tell you, they like these ideas.

Enkiduu said:
But my point is that not everyone needs helping, nor do they want it

Enkiduu said:
Regalians themselves have no problem with this system, it's only the faction survivalists and PvPers who need help.

Once again, how will more players hurt regalia?

AtticCat · Jun 17, 2017

With those last three quotes, @Genecide65 , @Enkiduu wasn't exactly disagreeing with you, I believe. They were pointing out the facts such as many Regalian Roleplayers aren't seeking help nor want it. Enkid was just stating the facts, not picking a fight.

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

AtticCat said:
With those last three quotes, @Genecide65 , @Enkiduu wasn't exactly disagreeing with you, I believe. They were pointing out the facts such as many Regalian Roleplayers aren't seeking help nor want it. Enkid was just stating the facts, not picking a fight.

I never said he was picking a fight? All im wondering is how more players on the server would hurt Regalia.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
Im just wondering why you said this, don't have to say im trying to slander you.

Please reread my post. That was quite accusatory of me, I admit. I changed my mind and edited my post.

AtticCat · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
I never said he was picking a fight? All im wondering is how more players on the server would hurt Regalia.

I didn't mean that he was picking a fight, I was putting that there because this could dwindle into a fight. As for your second statement, I think Enkid was seeing what you're saying as you not only trying to get more players but convince the current ones into factions - which they probably won't do considering if they wanted to be involved in factions, They'd already be.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
I never said he was picking a fight? All im wondering is how more players on the server would hurt Regalia.

No one said more players will hurt Regalia. @Genecide65 Again, I never actually disagreed with any of your suggestions, nor am I trying to. My point is that the focus here shouldn't be about Regalia at all. Does it really matter if you bring or remove Regalia from the discussion? The results are still the same, more activity in the faction worlds.

MorgothTheDark · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
Today in general chat several members of the community, including myself, had a healthy discussion on ideas of how we could possibly make the factions world popular and stop "PVPers" and "Roleplayers" from arguing and to unite them. Here is what we got:

1. Give Factions Lore - We have come up with the idea to give factions their own lore. We believe this could help get factions, especially the ones that are PVP based or just survival, to lean toward roleplay. This can also make players more active as try to become more popular in lore and gain more power as well as make the factions world more active. Also someone said that we maybe could have a area or wiki where faction lore can be put and anyone could edit it. Maybe faction leaders can create the lore and send it to the lore staff and staff can approve it? (To check that a faction isn't saying they own all of Aloria or Regalia and have a small loan of 1 million soldiers at their hand.)

2. Safe Cities - Another idea that was introduced during the discussion is to create safe cities. I myself am not certain about this one, because if not handled correctly this may ruin PVP, but if a faction/location is large enough and populated enough and powerful enough (and probably good looking enough) that they could become a designated roleplay area within the faction world. This could help attract people who spend all their time in Regalia to give the faction worlds a chance, and to draw more people to factions. This can also give players motivation, especially the people who stay in Regalia most of the time, to create their own "civilization" to try to become stronger and achieve becoming a safe city. Now I know what some are thinking, "Well what about PVP? Now we cant raid in the faction worlds either?", Well, we had the idea that if you own a large enough party of people that you could raid or besiege cities. It makes sense roleplay and realism wise, in the medieval ages 1 man does not just rush into a city all on his own and slaughters the common folk and soldiers without planning or help from his people. You could make an application that at this time of day these people will raid whatever city. I think it would make for some good battles. However, I think that it should be EXTREMELY difficult to become a safe city. If anyone and everyone could become a safe city, then PVP would be ruined for sure.

3. Return of Races? - I know, this has been an argument that has gone on for ages, and if I remember correctly the old races code isn't compatible with current minecraft and that it is outdated. Myself and some others have agreed that the divide between RP and PVP really started to show up when races was removed. Races added some roleplay feel to PVP, and got the attention of roleplayers. I think that traits should be removed because they are useless for PVP now because they disable when you enter combat. I believe we should re-create races because it will help give PVP a roleplay sort of touch and will attract roleplayers to survival/PVP because of its roleplay feel. People will be able to Roleplay at what race they are if they wanted to, or Elven based factions can be Elves and Dwarves can be Dwarves and give them the "Hey, we are actually dwarves, we arnt just pretending." vibe. I understand that it may be hard for the creators of the massivecraft plug-ins to create a new races plug-in, but if they really need to, you can call out to the massivecraft community because i'm sure their are players who want races back that are willing to volunteer and help create it.

4. More Faction Power or Less/No Upkeep - This is another topic that was introduced. In Regalia, the people only have to worry about paying 300r a month (depending on what you are buying) for their well made and aesthetically appealing house. In the faction worlds, some factions (like Insani) have to pay nearly 300r a /day/ to keep their faction land. I think that factions should get more perks for having to pay so much to keep their faction alive or they should have lower or no upkeep to pay (If you remove upkeep I suggest you remove taxes too because then owners can just milk money out of members. Taxes is used to help take the load off owners so that they can pay the upkeep, not to go into the faction leader's pockets.) This will help take stress off of faction leaders and persuade others to create their own communities.

5. Harder To Make Factions - Last idea, but not least. I and several others agree that factions should be harder to make. Back in the day I had to work my arse off every day to earn silver and copper because I really wanted to create my own faction where I was the king and that I could rule my own people and not having to listen to other leaders orders. This idea of owning my own faction kept me online for hours a day making money. Right before I made Insani regals became the new currency and I worked up to 1000 regals and was able to create my own faction. The feeling I had when I pressed enter after typing "/f create Insani" made me so happy, I felt so achieved. I think it should be harder to create factions because it will give people something to work for and to stay on longer for and in the end make them feel achieved and proud of what they have done. It will make things more realistic too, not every man and women were able to get up and go "Hey, today I have decided I want to be a king." It was a process, you needed to be popular and needed to be rich. If factions were harder to create, then their would be no need for such high upkeep either.

I did not create this to start a war between "roleplayers and PVPers" and I hope none will start one. I just want what is best for massivecraft honestly, and I believe these ideas will help make it better and more popular. I miss the old days where the server was full, 300/300, and how there were no roleplayers and pvpers argueing because there were no roleplayers or pvpers. There were just /Players/. Everything went well together, people rped in the faction world. Instead of finding someone in Ithania and then potting up to gank them from behind there were groups of bandits who would wander the roads and halt players and tell them to give them coin or face death. There were taverns and other player made businesses in the faction worlds that people created and ran and their would be groups of people who traveled there to RP and some people went there to PVP. Not all people got along, but the whole game did. I today own a very old faction with 12,000 regals in the bank and own double chests of god gear and have 50 players at my command however I sometimes wish giving it all up to go back to the old days when I was a poor, powerless farmer in Leyowiin because those days were the most fun days I have ever had on this server. I believe if even just one of these ideas were implemented, massive could step one foot closer to becoming greater then it has ever been before.

My opinions

1. Faction Lore

I feel as if this should not be mandatory but optional. However, I feel as if this is already the case. If you want to rp in your faction, or give it a story in survival, you can. Some players want lore, and want to RP, some want to avoid it entirely. You could have factions alter ongoing lore in a cycle of continually being updated. Thus, breathing life into both the fiction of massivecraft, and the literal world of factions.

2. Safe Cities
Yes. However, I'm not certain allowing factions to become and maintain themselves as safe areas would be the best idea. I would rather see the MassiveCraft staff construct safe cities for players to Roleplay in, while still being within the survival worlds. If larger factions want to construct cities and then offer them up to become safe areas, I would be fine with that, but I don't think players should be able to govern them without some sort of restriction/enforcement of the fact that they will be ran correctly and not abused.

The point is, RPers and Faction players need to be in the same worlds.

3. Races/ Racial Mechanics
I would love to see something similar to the races that were originally on massive, or just anything that breathed some unique life into the factions world experience. I loved races, and I loved traits. Yet, some of the PvP community seems to favor a bland vanillaesque survival experience. We are introducing MassiveMagic, and that will alter things heavily more than likely.

As I've said elsewhere, I am for MORE content, not LESS. I had fun with the racial abilities, and with traits, although traits were not designed very well. I want more things that make the MassiveCraft experience unique and more... MASSIVE!

4. More power/ less upkeep
I'm not certain where I stand on this. I kind of like it as it is now. If you want a lot of land, as a player or group of players, I feel as if you should have to work hard to maintain it. It's all in how much land you claim and how efficiently you utilize it.

5. Harder to make factions
Again, I'm not certain on this. It would force new players into established factions, which might not necessarily be a bad thing, but I actually prefer to have newer players have an easier time creating a faction, because that, I feel, is what a majority of newer faction players want to do.

In my opinion, the reason the RP and Factions communities are divided is because they are, literally and mechanically, DIVIDED.

Regalia is a pocket realm separate from the entirety of the factions worlds. Unless it would destroy the servers, I feel as if Regalia, and other RP based locations, should exist somewhere in the factions world. I inherently think it is not a good idea to split such a mass of the playerbase into two different realms of existence.

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

AtticCat said:
I think Enkid was seeing what you're saying as you not only trying to get more players but convince the current ones into factions - which they probably won't do considering if they wanted to be involved in factions, They'd already be.

Thats the point though, we are trying to give them a reason to be involved in factions and bring roleplay to it. I dont understand what the problem with making things more equal is, and giving factions more opportunities. You can talk about how the faction worlds are now and why people dont go to the factions world, but you'll just be repeating stuff we already know. The point of this is to make the factions world more intresting for everyone, bringing more roleplay to factions, and helping smooth out the solid divide between factions/pvp and roleplay, as @MyCatBubbles said a few minutes ago. I mean if it works and gets people in Regalia attracted to factions, then so what? Isnt that a good thing? Woo hoo, we did something awesome and people like it! Now new players who join will see this and probably like it too and not leave 10 minutes after joining the server!.. I mean whats the problem with this lol?

AtticCat · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
Thats the point though, we are trying to give them a reason to be involved in factions and bring roleplay to it. I dont understand what the problem with making things more equal is, and giving factions more opportunities. You can talk about how the faction worlds are now and why people dont go to the factions world, but you'll just be repeating stuff we already know. The point of this is to make the factions world more intresting for everyone, bringing more roleplay to factions, and helping smooth out the solid divide between factions/pvp and roleplay, as @MyCatBubbles said a few minutes ago. I mean if it works and gets people in Regalia attracted to factions, then so what? Isnt that a good thing? Woo hoo, we did something awesome and people like it! Now new players who join will see this and probably like it too and not leave 10 minutes after joining the server!.. I mean whats the problem with this lol?

I never said there was a problem, I'm just trying to help clear up what Enkid said.

Genecide65 · Jun 17, 2017

Enkiduu said:
No one said more players will hurt Regalia. @Genecide65 Again, I never actually disagreed with any of your suggestions, nor am I trying to. My point is that the focus here shouldn't be about Regalia at all. Does it really matter if you bring or remove Regalia from the discussion? The results are still the same, more activity in the faction worlds.

Yeah? This is a roleplay server, as already been said in the comments, and Regalia is apart of the server, where most roleplay occurs, all I said from the beginning is that this would bring more players and maybe intrest people in Regalia to go to factions and spread roleplay. You were the one who said we would be siphoning from Regalia. I suggest you ead what MyCatBubbles said if you have not already.

Enkiduu · Jun 17, 2017

Genecide65 said:
I mean if it works and gets people in Regalia attracted to factions, then so what? Isnt that a good thing?

Actually, that right there sums the problem. Sorry, but that actually does hurt Regalia. The roleplay city functions by concentrating roleplayers in one area so that they can all interact with each other. That's simply how Regalian roleplay works. Spreading them out breaks that system and causes roleplay to drop. In fact, that was the very reason Regalia was made into what it was today and why factions have become discounted from lore. There was an announcement made years ago stating exactly that. If I find it, I'll add the link here.

The equality you and MyCatBubbles suggest, the perfect balance of Regalian roleplay and PvP is nice, but not realistically feasible unless MassiveCraft can summon enough players to sustain roleplaying in multiple cities and hotspots, which may require numbers in the hundreds online at the same time.

Mind you, I emphasized "Regalian" because Regalian roleplay is a very specific type of roleplay. What I mean by that is that Regalian roleplay has its own extremely fleshed out lore, a very strict lore to abide by, with its own in-universe cities, kingdoms, wars, progressions, events, etc. The factions as they are now are completely incompatible with that lore. If we wanted factions to be part of Regalian roleplay, we'd have to take away a lot of player freedom and creativity in deciding how their faction exists.

And that's my point. Roleplay in the faction/survival worlds should be done by faction/survival roleplayers with faction/survival lore, not Regalian roleplay lore. The faction/survival worlds need to attract their own target audience, not convert Regalian roleplayers.

EDIT: Here's the link: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/lets-talk-roleplay.22779/
TLDR, Regalia is based on strict roleplay, which is incompatible with factions unless you start being strict with factions too. Factions can only work with light roleplay, which is likewise incompatible with Regalia's strict roleplay. Equalizing them both won't work out, they can only thrive separately.

krurk · Jun 17, 2017

As neither a PvPer or a Roleplayer I would like to mention that this divide within our community also adversely effects survival and all-round players like myself. As part of neither the RP of PvP community particularly, players like me suffer all the drawbacks and perhaps some might not even realize what they are missing... what MassiveCraft factions world once was. Why we joined, why we stayed and why lots of us old players make forum posts exactly like this one in the name of those memories.

Frankly, any of us who were here before canon left factions world remember playing in a survival world which was an overall AMAZING experience. Everyone had a purpose or something you could work towards. Older players helped newer players understand their place and how they could fit into the community. PvP and roleplay and survival players were all mixmashed into a variety of factions. You joined factions based on your desired lore or skills. Survival was key. Food was important, items mattered. If you could repair things with mcmmo you were a hero. Minecraft mobs and mechanics were lore-approved.

With the exodus of serious roleplay to Regalia, factions world was left with kiddy roleplay. It was forced. Oh you want to declare war? Describe a roleplay reason. Oh you want your faction to be canonized? Sorry factions can't be lore. It was hard for lots of people at the time to see their former faction friends not only seeing their roleplay as second rate, but then also putting parameters on that forced roleplay that were patronizing. As a result many people saw first hand PvP players blaming and coming after roleplayers. The given reasons at the time were perhaps not fully formed but on the grand scale, it meant something. Years down the line you can still feel the occasional ripples on our community from the siege of Osai.

And why? Is it because Roleplayers and PvPers cannot co-exist? No. I think not. I have experienced them co-exist on this very server many times in the past. Is it because serious roleplayers abandoned the rest of the server lore when they made canon Regalia exclusive? Is it because all the best PvP players consolidated into 3 factions and slaughtered any other faction who built up numbers of fodder? Is it because the plugins changed and now nobody needs farms to survive? I personally think we will never be able to arrive at a definitive conclusion. Neither do I think we should have to.

Healing the divide in our community is a noble goal and an important one. It is a serious discussion that needs to be had among serious people from all sides of the spectrum... If this were 2013 factions world we would have had a moot. Leaders from various factions would have met up and discussed treaties and plans and wars. Envoys would be sent from one faction to the next, making deals and working out a way to survive, to feed the citizens, to defend themselves and each other from enemies.

This isn't how the survival world works anymore, but never forget, once upon a time, no matter which side of this argument you are on now, we all played together in the same world and it was the most insane incredible fun that a minecraft server could ever hope to offer. We still play on the same world, but we don't play together. Perhaps we will again someday. I am eagerly waiting.

: )

MonMarty · Jun 17, 2017

Community initiatives are nice and all, but I think a serious misunderstanding needs to be helped out of the world. There is no divide between RP and PVP, at least not a real one that a lot of people seem to be imagining, let me explain why this is the case.

The premise of this "divide" means to imply that when Regalia was created, it simply funneled any and all existing role players into this pristine world away from Faction Survival and somehow turned them against the survival world. It follows the narrative that somehow the birth of Regalia caused the community to fracture in two (or three, depending on how you look at it) but the reality is that no such thing occurred.

Regalia was created after I did a full-spectrum poll back when the server was still capped at 150 players. I sent my staff application in on Friday April 20, 2012, and have been a staff member ever since, with barely any breaks or vacations in between. I say unequivocally that there was no "serious roleplay" in the days before regalia. It is important in this context to understand the difference between "serious roleplay" and "light roleplay". "serious roleplay" is the complex form of Regalian roleplay that takes place between families, politics, character relations and world events. "light roleplay" is a more nuanced version where people engage in gameplay with a sprinkle of roleplay narrative to give them some sort of story line to peruse, but unlike serious roleplay, they don't engage in the average daily roleplay of drinking at the pub or going out for dinner or taking a stroll in the park with their romance rp lover.

The point is, the creation of Regalia saw a sudden surge of serious roleplayers joining the server, and perhaps, sure, some light roleplayers considered that this was what they wanted all along, and moved over to serious roleplay full time instead. Regalia and the serious roleplay community did not steal any resources or population from the survival worlds beyond these occasional people who actually wanted to do serious roleplay all along. All Lore staff members are recruited from these full time serious roleplayers who all came to the server /after/ I made Regalia. There was no server lore before the creation of Regalia. Ninjabaver's attempts to drive a singular narrative were muddied by the constant intervention of other staff who tried to enforce their own narratives, and the framework freedom caused a constant flux of confusion where the only solid maintained aspect was MrsBaver. Factions do not currently have the ability to become part of lore, because they simply never had to begin with. Back in those pre-Regalia days factions could just ignore each other's existence entirely and drive their own storyline. There was no official wiki, only an unofficial wikia graveyard where everyone just vomited information on. For example some random chick just came by and wrote her character to be MrsBaver's Dark Princess daughter, and there was nothing anybody did about it because lore was malleable back then. These ethics, these moral principles have never changed for the survival worlds. Regalia is to the survival worlds what the Quest world is to Regalia. It's a form of gameplay we offer that has only the stringiest attachments and relevance to the other part. Factions like Mithril and Valoran did not disappear from the survival world and in many cases continued to drive that light roleplay narrative there. Factions like Magnanimous didn't stop driving their own roleplay narrative. Alamut did not stop doing their own thing when Regalia came about. 9thLegion did not stop acting as a major faction in Survival. Sure, Ulumulu1505 roleplayed in Regalia a bit, but he always kept up activity of his faction with Gnarff. What eventually diminished these things is simply the fact that people moved on. The leaders of 9thLegion and Mithril went to college and stopped playing every day, Alamut presumably moved off to other non-Minecraft related to PVP games and Valoran just got busy with life too. And I think we should be able to recognize by now that Regalia and all things attached to it should not be blamed for one essential thing that /is/ happening, which is the steady decline of popularity of the survival worlds as a whole, while the roleplay community thrives and remains stable.

This is an ongoing struggle we all fight against, but it is largely also caused by the unique gameplay trap massive resides in. Our faction survival server offers a sort of semi-safe experience that cannot be found anywhere else. The vast majority of the faction survival servers have TNT enabled and allow you to break into chests and steal items. We disallow this because we like giving the players the ability to build something for the long haul, but it also means that the survival servers have a really hard time attracting any player audience. The fact that we have this semi-safe environment is really unpopular among most of the hardcore survivalists and pvp'ers who believe that in the current climate, raiding and war is absolutely pointless, and it completely is, there is no denying that. We hope that in dear time (due to the recent headstart made with the Factions V3 rework), we can turn the tide and make Massive truly enjoyable.

At the end of the day however, it is necessary for this kind of thread or debate to understand that there is no real divide between PVP'ers and Roleplayers, or Survivalists and Roleplayers, as much as there is simply disinterest. I sat in a channel of 10 people yesterday on Massive Teamspeak and they all pretty much resounded the same sentiment: "Why don't the survivalists just stay in their own part of the server?". The point is these players never played in survival, and have no interest in doing so. They are happy where they are, and it's incredibly unfair to create this illusion that somehow they bear responsibility for the decaying gameplay experience of the survival worlds because they are becoming stale.

The roleplay community bears no fault in this. I don't suppose anyone does in particular since we are simply dealt with the cards that are available to us and our limited technological development capabilities. We experience and acknowledge the serious decline of survival popularity, and we want to desperately reverse this. We have people working on it, but ultimately what counts for the players also counts for the staff. Many of us grew up with Massive, got jobs, went to college, got into relationships, etc. We will make it work, with hard work, and with the help of some insightful players, but it should be important to request that this whole "PVP/Survival divide with Roleplay" narrative is abandoned. It's simply speaking not true and an unfair and unnecessary scapegoat that just serves nothing but further antagonizing of a community that is already disinterested in communicating with another segment.

Inb4: NO MARTY UR WRONGGG!!! I remember it different!
I sat on this server as the /only/ game staff member 5 years back answering Helpop tickets. I championed the creation of Regalia, the official wiki, and co-authored the forum with 05rhardy and oversaw many of the staff systems that have developed into what we have today. I spent 10 hours a day on Massive back then, so I'm fairly certain I know exactly what I'm talking about and I know very well what the community was like back then. I am not misguided by strange sentiments of nostalgia that are being fabricated to substantiate a sentiment that has been lost that is hard to explain.

Added note:
I did some thinking and I do think there is a valid point to raise about the idea that the context of lore has also changed. Back then, staff didn't interact with the lore at all, and as such, their weight and importance on the server did not artificially change the balance. When staff started glorifying Regalia lore, I suppose it could be said that faction lore became so unheard of, or rather, your ears get filled so much with Regalia lore that there simply wasn't any desire to look into faction lore. There is actually a really simple solution to this: Survival staff could come into existence to organize Survival events, Survival wiki writing, and survival oriented interest group management. But the Lore staff won't do this for them. The Lore staff were all hired from Regalia to benefit Regalia. They should not be legally or morally obligated or even guilt tripped into working for the survival world that they have never really interacted with at all.

Conflee · Jun 17, 2017

MonMarty said:
I did some thinking and I do think there is a valid point to raise about the idea that the context of lore has also changed. Back then, staff didn't interact with the lore at all, and as such, their weight and importance on the server did not artificially change the balance. When staff started glorifying Regalia lore, I suppose it could be said that faction lore became so unheard of, or rather, your ears get filled so much with Regalia lore that there simply wasn't any desire to look into faction lore. There is actually a really simple solution to this: Survival staff could come into existence to organize Survival events, Survival wiki writing, and survival oriented interest group management. But the Lore staff won't do this for them. The Lore staff were all hired from Regalia to benefit Regalia. They should not be legally or morally obligated or even guilt tripped into working for the survival world that they have never really interacted with at all.

Honestly this would be amazing. I have enjoyed the Baneful King plot line that has been woven around Survival and PVE recently and im sure people would be down for more in the future. Having a dedicated staff group for that sort of thing would probably make it run a lot smoother as well.

Ninja124r · Jun 17, 2017

an idea that popped up in my small brain: during the surrender tribute discussion between a pvp and rp faction there should be little rp between the 2 factions so both factions can has den fun <3

join sun kiss

leafnosedbat · Jun 17, 2017

Doesn't the fact that we might need a separate set of "Survival" lore imply a bit of a divide?

When I ran my own tiny faction, we were reasonably role-play intensive. We married game mechanics with our role-play. All our faction titles were in-character, and we used RP names whenever we spoke in local chat. Earning status as an officer meant being ordained as a priest within our religion. Drinking poison potions was part of our religious rituals. We developed our beliefs based on what we observed about the virtual world we lived in. We considered using axes in PVP taboo, since they were tools for peacetime, not weapons of war. We held the spider up as a symbol of insight because it seemed to be able to see its prey through walls. We decorated with Redstone and Lapis, as those materials seemed to be tied (via their use at the altars) to the Dark and the Light.

We attended battles providing medicine, wearing little armor and asking to be spared the violence since we were holy men. And PVPers usually respected that.

If we went to SilverEdge, or later, Regalia, our stories were canonical. We could talk about our adventures taking the long trip from our secluded monastery in Daendroc. We could recount our delicate relationship with various larger empires (like Argonia or Serenum), and our efforts to spread our religion. We could meet members of other faiths like Chetism or Light Worship, and debate on the morality of vampirism. We could consult with Regalian scholars on the history of the Baver family and its mysterious timeline, then publish our theories in our library.

But the way things are right now, if I buy some armor at the market and then go hunt creepers, none of that's "real" anymore when I go to Regalia. I can't talk to other adventurers at the tavern about the best techniques for hunting them. Creepers aren't even lore-compliant.

I can't ask who "Xytaujin" is, because he's no one. Not in Regalia, at least. I can't talk about the new spell I'm working on because that's not how magic works in Regalia. I can't worry about the Baneful King because he's not even part of this universe. Some of us want to experience this world as a cohesive whole. Maybe not that many. Maybe just me. But I am definitely no longer able to do it the way I once was.

MyCatBubbles · Jun 17, 2017

@MonMarty Im genuinely curious now that the OG roleplayer endorses or disavows any of these ideas, do you in any way support and or dislike any ideas that Gene brought up?

MonMarty · Jun 17, 2017

MyCatBubbles said:
@MonMarty Im genuinely curious now that the OG roleplayer endorses or disavows any of these ideas, do you in any way support and or dislike any ideas that Gene brought up?

I'm not an OG roleplayer and I don't think any of those are my calls. Toku and Sevak as Game staff are far more equipped than I am to have an opinion on Survival. My only job is to safeguard the ethical majority of the player base e.g making it so bases don't get destroyed or people get bullied off the server.

BenRekt · Jun 17, 2017

falconhand said:
Honestly, I think that removing upkeep would be great, but if we do that, faction cost needs to go up hugely, to something like 4 thousand regals, since regals are very easy to obtain, and we dont want thousands of factions littering the world that are completely useless.

EDIT: Although.. after thinking about it, upkeep provides something for factions to do, even if they do nothing else. If you have a real faction, not just a oneman thing, upkeep is a consideration to sustain your faction. I believe that it adds an element of realism to the factions community. I do however believe that it should be dropped to how it was before the tax hike, at 1r per 10 chunks. That would do a lot towards making factions more sustainable.

Taxes should be a very very small money sink, while faction creation should be one of the most expensive things on the server. The idea that players should be able to lead their own faction after playing for around a week is overall dumb, and leads new players into isolating themsleves, rather than learning how to join a faction and socialize with other players. I think new players are more inclined to stay if they forge relationships with other players. I know for a fact that I would've stopped playing years ago if it weren't for the many friendships I've created on Massive. Faction creation cost should be at the very least 6k regals. Give the idea of owning a faction some weight.

BenRekt · Jun 18, 2017

Also, if faction tax is lowered, factions need to only be claim in at most 2 worlds (I would prefer one, but I'm not going to suggest that because a lot of the big inactive RP factions with tons of unused cities would have heart attacks).

Sperans · Jun 18, 2017

If we do Lore for Factions, I demand that Deldrimor builds it's lore upon Eastern Lands States so we can worship dragons.

Enkiduu · Jun 18, 2017

LeafMC said:
Some of us want to experience this world as a cohesive whole.

What do you suggest to resolve this though? The roleplay universe has evolved so far from the survival worlds that there's not really much in common with them anymore. What pragmatic steps can be taken to make it seamless without breaking anything and keeping everything intact? Some of the suggestions here have either been tried and failed or wouldn't work out in reality.

leafnosedbat · Jun 18, 2017

Enkiduu said:
What do you suggest to resolve this though? The roleplay universe has evolved so far from the survival worlds that there's not really much in common with them anymore. What pragmatic steps can be taken to make it seamless without breaking anything and keeping everything intact? Some of the suggestions here have either been tried and failed or wouldn't work out in reality.

In order to make an omelette, you usually need to break a few eggs.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a fairly straightforward way to mend things a bit.

We nest the mechanics within the lore. Every mechanic (or at least most of them) are explained in some way by the lore. Creepers have a lore explanation, as do endermen, MassiveMagic, and weapon enchanting. Other things might exist only in the lore, like different breeds of vampires, or the rest of the Regalian Archipelago, or even sorts of magic that aren't possible to emulate in Minecraft, but you're not going to encounter any game mechanics in survival that are lore-incompliant. If you fight Xytaujin in Teled-Methen, when you come to Regalia, you can talk about that without being OOC.

This requires a bit of work for the lore-writers, but we don't need the usual multi-paragraph wiki page about everything in Minecraft. As little as a few sentences describing what things like blazes and slimes are (or, at the very least, acknowledging that they exist) would be plenty, since you can easily encounter these things and learn more about them in-game, unlike many things within the lore.

Other departments could also have a hand in merging the two worlds, by incorporating creatures from the wiki into MassiveMobs, or using the ideas on the wiki as inspiration for future plugins, events, and quests.

Maybe this is far more work than I'm making it out to be, but even so, I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor.

Enkiduu · Jun 18, 2017

LeafMC said:
We nest the mechanics within the lore. Every mechanic (or at least most of them) are explained in some way by the lore.

I don't see a problem with that in itself, I even tried writing a Creeper lore article once hahaha. It was quite in-depth. Though I do see problems in resolving such actions with one's RP character, especially since not every character is a fighter. It wouldn't make sense for my healer/botanist character to speak of slaughtering hundreds of monsters, unless said monsters were incredibly weak.

But what about everything else? Like the existence of factions. People who own factions are basically rulers and kings, people in positions of absolute power, which is quite incompatible with the more common folk, daily life nature of roleplay. I recall it being mentioned that attempts to work things out between lore staff and faction leaders/members end with negotiations breaking down because people don't want to stop holding on to their power.

leafnosedbat · Jun 18, 2017

Enkiduu said:
I don't see a problem with that in itself, I even tried writing a Creeper lore article once hahaha. It was quite in-depth. Though I do see problems in resolving such actions with one's RP character, especially since not every character is a fighter. It wouldn't make sense for my healer/botanist character to speak of slaughtering hundreds of monsters, unless said monsters were incredibly weak.

But what about everything else? Like the existence of factions. People who own factions are basically rulers and kings, people in positions of absolute power, which is quite incompatible with the more common folk, daily life nature of roleplay. I recall it being mentioned that attempts to work things out between lore staff and faction leaders/members end with negotiations breaking down because people don't want to stop holding on to their power.

Why should faction leaders have to give up their power? They've earned it. Perhaps they're rulers of small kingdoms in distant lands, but they're still rulers. Whether or not that means they deserve any respect in Regalia is another matter. What's more, not everyone who owns a faction is necessarily playing their ruler character when in Regalia.

As for your comment about your healer/botanist character, of course it wouldn't make sense for them to be slaughtering hundreds of monsters. I'm not advocating that everything that happens in survival has to be considered canon. Only that it can be canon for those who want it to be. If I go darkrooming to get a few stacks of rotten flesh, I don't need to have an RP explanation. If I find some friends and go on an expedition through Hyarroc, however, I'd like to know that it'd be ok to detail our escapades in a character app.

Enkiduu · Jun 18, 2017

LeafMC said:
Why should faction leaders have to give up their power? They've earned it. Perhaps they're rulers of small kingdoms in distant lands, but they're still rulers.

They've earned faction power, but that doesn't necessarily translate to roleplay power. There's also the fact that the roleplay universe already has established geography that may conflict with faction geography. What if you had a great Tigran faction in the middle of an area where lore-wise Tigrans shouldn't exist at all? If you decide to have your faction canonized but then are told by the lore staff that your faction's core lore doesn't make sense at all, and changing it means changing the nature of your faction, how do you resolve things like that?

LeafMC said:
Whether or not that means they deserve any respect in Regalia is another matter. What's more, not everyone who owns a faction is necessarily playing their ruler character when in Regalia.

Isn't that the whole point of bridging the divide though? To make things seamless. I mean...

LeafMC said:
I'm not advocating that everything that happens in survival has to be considered canon. Only that it can be canon for those who want it to be. If I go darkrooming to get a few stacks of rotten flesh, I don't need to have an RP explanation. If I find some friends and go on an expedition through Hyarroc, however, I'd like to know that it'd be ok to detail our escapades in a character app.

... This just kinda sounds like how things are now. I don't see why you can't do this now as long as the details are lore compliant.

"My character explored the Ithanian desert and collected some wild cacti."

Can you tell if that happened in survival, or is that just roleplay? Does the answer to that matter? It's perfectly compliant either way. I don't think mentioning "Oh, and this actually happened in survival" suddenly makes it incompliant or not allowed. If you wrote all your adventures down, made sure it was lore compliant, but never even actually mentioned that it happened in survival, would anyone even notice the difference?

The only problem I see with this are the things you mentioned before, e.g buying armor, the Baneful king, visiting specific Factions, which kinda circles back to my original question; how do you canonize these seamlessly into Regalian roleplay?

Conflee · Jun 18, 2017

LeafMC said:
We nest the mechanics within the lore. Every mechanic (or at least most of them) are explained in some way by the lore. Creepers have a lore explanation, as do endermen, MassiveMagic, and weapon enchanting. Other things might exist only in the lore, like different breeds of vampires, or the rest of the Regalian Archipelago, or even sorts of magic that aren't possible to emulate in Minecraft, but you're not going to encounter any game mechanics in survival that are lore-incompliant. If you fight Xytaujin in Teled-Methen, when you come to Regalia, you can talk about that without being OOC.

Im already excited to be using MassiveMagic in Regalia. If you have a mage character, this is like the best thing ever. You can literally do special effects for your spells its going to be dope! (sorry kind of tangent-y)

I think a lot of this could help, but some things have already been slightly explained away. The Creeper Face is actually the face of a drake. There are seeds laid out in lore already for a lot of things being explained. IE, The Creeper could be written as some smaller offshoot of the drakes, a cousin if you will, to explain the already existing face lore thing. End Creatures like Endermen and Endermites could be void warped / corrupted beasts from ... idk the Drowdar place my brain is not working, but since they can innately use shadow magic they quickly spread across the wilderness of most continents. ETC

krurk · Jun 18, 2017

Enkiduu said:
"My character explored the Ithanian desert and collected some wild cacti."

Can you tell if that happened in survival, or is that just roleplay? Does the answer to that matter? It's perfectly compliant either way. I don't think mentioning "Oh, and this actually happened in survival" suddenly makes it incompliant or not allowed. If you wrote all your adventures down, made sure it was lore compliant, but never even actually mentioned that it happened in survival, would anyone even notice the difference?

The only problem I see with this are the things you mentioned before, e.g buying armor, the Baneful king, visiting specific Factions, which kinda circles back to my original question; how do you canonize these seamlessly into Regalian roleplay?

Thank you for your critical question. Please don't consider my post abrasive, but please do consider the compare and contrast I offer. I do think your point does a great job of encompassing the first steps required, in my opinion, to properly mend our divisions.

The wiki page for Ithania is located here. https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Ithania

When you read through this page you will find lots of information helpful to you if you are learning the story of Ithania. You will find its land style, its population type, its leadership history, its landmarks, anything you would find on a good real-world wikipedia page you will find here. This information would no doubt be helpful if you were in Regalia and you needed a backstory and an understanding of from where you came so you could discover where you are going.

The contrast I'm suggesting at is, in the real world Ithania exists. It is tangible. I can go there. I can't see those mentioned leaders or landmarks, I cannot find those suggested animals and plants. Furthermore the things that I can see have no mention. Thousands of mob types. Factions and cities that have taken real time and effort from the actual players who actually live in Ithania. For your suggested story of "I went to the desert of Ithania and collected some wild Cacti" you would be inevitably passing by players and factions and cities and mobs that do not, for all intents and purposes, exist. You can't bring them back with you to Regalia because they don't have a place in the lore. When you play *minecraft* and hide in a hut with a new friend from a zombie who is banging down your door -- that is not possible to be lore. Not real lore. That formative experience we all remember is, at best, ooc.

The point of this post and the one I made previously in this thread are one in the same: Factions world exists. We built things according to the world code, we have cities and people and stories too. Why can't they be part of the zeitgeist? If Ithania is going to have made up landmarks and NPC leaders while real landmarks and living breathing leaders exist, why are they being excluded from the possibility of being gold-standard, real deal? Who is suffering if the faction leaders and players of Ithania have their own place in the tale of history? Why tell two separate histories?

People live in Regalia because its civilized and it focuses the lens entirely on the part of the gameplay they like most. I get that. But for people who like all spheres of the game, want to perhaps take that roleplay overseas, build an empire, have ambassadors and emissaries, have wars that are sung about in the songs of Aloria.... why are they not allowed to be recognized in the official MassiveCraft lore? The strict code that once policed factions world was that we were in a real world Medieval RPG. We are about exploration. The logo on my MassiveCraft hoodie is an explorer placing a flag. Why can't the landmarks we build and the leaders we choose be canon too? Is it terrible to consider, terrible to ask? I personally feel forgotten, but here I am, coming out my shell to say: We can do better. We must do better. I'm nice I swear I won't bite. Lets remove all our bias and just find a way forward, together. Like it once was. : )

Enkiduu · Jun 18, 2017

krurk said:
The point of this post and the one I made previously in this thread are one in the same: Factions world exists. We built things according to the world code, we have cities and people and stories too. Why can't they be part of the zeitgeist? If Ithania is going to have made up landmarks and NPC leaders while real landmarks and living breathing leaders exist, why are they being excluded from the possibility of being gold-standard, real deal?

Your post has feeling, but it doesn't answer the question:

how do you canonize these seamlessly into Regalian roleplay?

krurk said:
Who is suffering if the faction leaders and players of Ithania have their own place in the tale of history? Why tell two separate histories?

To quote something MonMarty says a lot, "Faction worlds are too ad hoc."

Regalian lore is quite expansive and goes quite deep. There are certain core lore, deeper lore that us players can't know about. There are set storylines, progressions, history, and events that have to be carefully orchestrated. Factions come and go, and rise and fall on the whims of the player. Compared to Regalian lore, faction lore is incredibly more free, which makes it unstable and unpredictable.

How do you accept this light roleplay into strict roleplay without making restrictions on factions and taking away faction freedom, or throwing away the core lore that staff has worked on, as well as the roleplayers that have invested in that lore? You're showing two different worlds and advocating their unification, which is admirable, but you're not actually giving any pragmatic steps or addressing the problems that stand in the way of that process.

Proudbucket · Jun 18, 2017

krurk said:
SNIP

Lore is flexible, and many of the towns and monuments that you see in Ithania could be canon (although you won't see them in the wiki unless your family is famous). Characters with some power, wealth or possessions can be canon. You can be the chieftain of a village in Jorrhildr, a rich merchant that owns a small fleet or a baron in the regalian archipelago.

The problem comes when one tries to claim to be a powerful king, to have an airship city or have a chained behemoth. That is seen as powergaming and is not accepted. One can build a castle, an airship city or a chained behemoth but that won't help. Those structures will not be canon or recognized by the roleplayers.

The kids in the RP block are happy playing their own game.
1) Play their game and accept that in that game your power will be limited.
2) Flip those kids and play with the other survivalist a game where you can be a demigod if you want to.

twinCatalysts · Jun 18, 2017

MonMarty said:
At the end of the day however, it is necessary for this kind of thread or debate to understand that there is no real divide between PVP'ers and Roleplayers, or Survivalists and Roleplayers, as much as there is simply disinterest. I sat in a channel of 10 people yesterday on Massive Teamspeak and they all pretty much resounded the same sentiment: "Why don't the survivalists just stay in their own part of the server?". The point is these players never played in survival, and have no interest in doing so. They are happy where they are, and it's incredibly unfair to create this illusion that somehow they bear responsibility for the decaying gameplay experience of the survival worlds because they are becoming stale.

This is the divide.
The divide is the disinterest.

The fact that there are people who go in Regalia to roleplay, and do nothing else, and the fact that there are people who go into Factions and never roleplay. This is what I, and I believe Genecide, want to "Bridge".

Not having interest in factions for these people is the problem, and I believe allowing or encouraging light roleplay to happen in factions is the first step to solving it.

We don't have to force Regalian roleplayers to come to factions, but as it stands now, there's no reason for them ever to; and you can strengthen the cores of Factions itself all you want; you can encourage pvp and trading, whatever. That won't make more than half of the server interested in it because that's not the stuff they enjoy.

Light factions roleplay might be; even if it's not as enjoyed as Regalian roleplay. If it had merit, if people took part in it, Regalian roleplayers would have more respect for the factions worlds, because, no matter which way you look at it, the majority of them right now don't.
They don't have a reason to. There's no reason for someone who enjoys roleplay to go to factions unless they like PvP. Because, even if they like building, or like writing their own lore. That's stuff that can more or less be fixed by becoming staff; you can build for regalia, you can write lore for Regalia, etc. all by becoming staff. And the stuff you build and the stuff you write will have an impact on roleplay. Most of the time the things you build in factions won't. Nothing in Factions matters anymore in the long run except to the people directly there; and not only that, but it's even harder to maintain it in the short run, compared to Regalia, due to things like taxes and upkeep.

That needs to change.

MonMarty said:
Added note:
I did some thinking and I do think there is a valid point to raise about the idea that the context of lore has also changed. Back then, staff didn't interact with the lore at all, and as such, their weight and importance on the server did not artificially change the balance. When staff started glorifying Regalia lore, I suppose it could be said that faction lore became so unheard of, or rather, your ears get filled so much with Regalia lore that there simply wasn't any desire to look into faction lore. There is actually a really simple solution to this: Survival staff could come into existence to organize Survival events, Survival wiki writing, and survival oriented interest group management. But the Lore staff won't do this for them. The Lore staff were all hired from Regalia to benefit Regalia. They should not be legally or morally obligated or even guilt tripped into working for the survival world that they have never really interacted with at all.

This is probably the only part of what you said I agree with.
But if you do you should be careful calling the current lore staff just "Lore staff" and calling the people helping factions lore something completely unrelated, or something secondhand such as "Factions Lore Staff".

That would again imply that Factions roleplay would be second rate; a downgrade.

If it's ever to work; they have to be equally respected and appreciated for what they are at the base level. Otherwise one side will look down on the other, and the side looked down on won't even want to stay around.

Ninja124r · Jun 18, 2017

Sperans said:
If we do Lore for Factions, I demand that Deldrimor builds it's lore upon Eastern Lands States so we can worship dragons.

stay in deld

yes mhm

sun kiss is now cleansed no that no one is in it just an alt

Archived Ideas To Heal The Pvp & Rp Divide

Mich

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