Could Massive Pvp Ever Be What It Was?

[North]

First off for those who don't know, my ign is NorthMC and I've been playing Massive for roughly three and a half years now. Because of some bans throughout the way, it caused me to go inactive for the past one and a half years or so, so I got around two years of the Massive PvP experience. I don't consider the time which I was PvPing on massive the peak of PvP on the server, unfortunately I think I actually arrived just as the decline of massive PvP began. Although, I did get a fair amount of gameplay in during what I consider was a time where PvP was much more popular and enjoyed throughout the server. I came back a day or so and noticed that PvP had kind of died (in comparison to what it had been) for lack of a better word. Now coming from someone who last PvP'd in a time where it was more popular, I'd like to point out some differences and similarities that I noticed.

1: Its all the same people. Most of the people who were PvPing when I left are still the most relevant PvPers now, and it has been that way for three years. Here and there some new PvPers come up and emerge, but i would say 60% of the people who are in factions considered "good" at PvP have played for years, and most of those who aren't still playing got banned. This could be wrong due to my limited time back, but my question is why aren't many new players PvPing?

2: There are a lot less PvPers. I remember battles where there would be 10 people from each faction fighting, and now for a lot of "PvP Factions" there aren't even 10 players in the entire faction. I think this relates to there not being many new massive PvPers in the scene, but where did the large battles go?

3: New rules, game changes and what not. I remember when I parted ways from massive, my reason for leaving was because I just left too long and didn't understand how PvP worked on the server, and I was too lazy to learn it. Now with traits removed from PvP, I think i got the hang of it (though I did get called out by some faction members for only using the wrong potions). So what I noticed since I left is to my knowledge, there is no external effects such as traits or races which altar PvP.

So I know this thread is kind of all over the place, but I would like to wrap up and collect my thoughts here. Since I left, honestly quite a bit has changed (concerning PvP at least), but not as much as I initially thought. My question to you guys is could massive PvP ever become what it once was; the huge, popular, and fun scene with enjoyable battles and deep rooted rivalry? If not why, and if so, how?

P.S. Sorry if I violated any forum rules or got anything wrong, as I stated I've been gone awhile, I might of forgot some things

 

[65jes89]

I think with latronis and the like coming back pvp is on the way back up, but a bit too soon to say.

 

[gajeel_Dragon]

To answer one of your questions, the reason most new people dont pvp, is because most people dont want to put in the time or effort to get 600 unarmed and 800 combat stats just to be relevant. Not to mention most new comers join smaller factions that get bullied and get turned off from the server, because no one wants to be in a faction where they cant leave the F home for hours at a time.

 

[Boogjangels]

To answer one of your questions, the reason most new people dont pvp, is because most people dont want to put in the time or effort to get 600 unarmed and 800 combat stats just to be relevant. Not to mention most new comers join smaller factions that get bullied and get turned off from the server, because no one wants to be in a faction where they cant leave the F home for hours at a time.

Click to shrink...

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd have to ask you this: if people aren't willing to put in the time to raise their stats to PvP on massive, why are they willing to do so on practically every other MMO in existence? It could obviously be argued that Massivecraft is not an MMORPG, however, that's exactly what it's advertised as, so what's the deal?

I'll admit, I don't PvP on minecraft anymore and I probably never will again, yet I absolutely adore factions as well as that hardcore rivalry North mentioned above. It really is a shame that Massive PvP is in the state that it is right now, but do you know why that is? When it comes to declining PvP on Massivecraft, I really think it boils down to the base game of Minecraft itself. Let me put it this way; why would I ever want to put up with Minecraft's clunky, frustrating controls when litterally any other modern game does it better?

Don't get me wrong, I love Massivecraft and I'll be here until it dies, but there's only so much they can do with what is, effecitvely, and old, and very tired game. If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

 

[65jes89]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd have to ask you this: if people aren't willing to put in the time to raise their stats to PvP on massive, why are they willing to do so on practically every other MMO in existence? It could obviously be argued that Massivecraft is not an MMORPG, however, that's exactly what it's advertised as, so what's the deal?

I'll admit, I don't PvP on minecraft anymore and I probably never will again, yet I absolutely adore factions as well as that hardcore rivalry North mentioned above. It really is a shame that Massive PvP is in the state that it is right now, but do you know why that is? When it comes to declining PvP on Massivecraft, I really think it boils down to the base game of Minecraft itself. Let me put it this way; why would I ever want to put up with Minecraft's clunky, frustrating controls when litterally any other modern game does it better?

Don't get me wrong, I love Massivecraft and I'll be here until it dies, but there's only so much they can do with what is, effecitvely, and old, and very tired game. If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

Click to shrink...

If that were the case, you would think that the rest of the pvp community outside massive would be having the same issues as us.

 

[Last_Link]

I used to pvp a hecka lot, and in the same time frame as you did. Alot of people have different reasons why pvp hasnt been doing well, mostly the pvpers give some of their reasons as to why pvp is failing and then the rpers do, and then they argue and it goes nowhere. I agree with some points from both sides but I kinda have my own opinion.

I think that pvp started to die when the pvp community was started. Now hear me out...
Pvp used to be something that factions just did. There were more pvp oriented factions like Magnanimus sure but that never really stopped the smaller factions from fighting each other. Nowadays theres this idea that if you wanna pvp at all on massive you gotta go all in and join the 'club'. While most pvpers will say that you just need skill and that its not hard to get into pvp, they are pretty much wrong. Not that theirs anything wrong with that, if you want to be a big pvper thats great. But now theres no room for what you might call casual pvpers. Those big 10 v 10 fights you were talking about weren't between a bunch of prems in god armor, chances are they were mostly starter pvpers.

There is also the whole toxic community thing. Pvpers just kinda shrug it off as if its not really a factor, but it is. Basically is your acting like an A-hole im not gonna wanna do anything with you.

Also theres that whole god gear for all thing and the 100r a day idea. Both terrible. I guess the thought is that with more gear people will have an easier time pvping cause they have less to lose. But really it just gives even less of a reason to pvp cause now when you manage to win a fight you just get one of those 50r swords.... wow..... neat....

Overall im probably just gonna get this rated as cute but thats fine.

 

[Last_Link]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd have to ask you this: if people aren't willing to put in the time to raise their stats to PvP on massive, why are they willing to do so on practically every other MMO in existence? It could obviously be argued that Massivecraft is not an MMORPG, however, that's exactly what it's advertised as, so what's the deal?

I'll admit, I don't PvP on minecraft anymore and I probably never will again, yet I absolutely adore factions as well as that hardcore rivalry North mentioned above. It really is a shame that Massive PvP is in the state that it is right now, but do you know why that is? When it comes to declining PvP on Massivecraft, I really think it boils down to the base game of Minecraft itself. Let me put it this way; why would I ever want to put up with Minecraft's clunky, frustrating controls when litterally any other modern game does it better?

Don't get me wrong, I love Massivecraft and I'll be here until it dies, but there's only so much they can do with what is, effecitvely, and old, and very tired game. If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

Click to shrink...

Also mostly this, im pretty much done with minecraft pvp in general.

 

[Celeras]

If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

Click to shrink...

If Minecraft had Mount and Blade mechanics I would pvp so much. I don't play multiplayer though because its kind of boring to me.

 

[FubeTheMangler]

Even this is abit older post I'd like to point out some things.
1. I fully agree with you that I want more people to get into PvP. The problems are: It's very difficult getting into PvP when there are these ''big'' PvP factions, It's kind hard to get into PvP when you have to oppose bigger factions and such.
2. It's difficult to get into PvP due evryone dosent sadly have the time to grind McMmo, or dosent have the grinders for it, the concept that you have to darkroom for about 1 or 2 weeks depening on your speed just in order to PvP, is abit unappealing for some people.

I'd love to see more PvP, I remember the times when evryone tried help PvP, when none even hesitated about deffending your own factions if you'd be raided. from what my understanding some people wanna help but not do this ''potion pvp'', that's why I wish we could have cannons or something like that, but unluckly I belive the Cannon plugin is outdated If I don't mistake. I do like the concept of your post and agree with most of it, good post.

Sorry for my bad spelling.

 

[LadyToxicScythe]

the reason pvp is dead is because of the "big boys club", and the fact that it takes a month to get the stats for pvp, not to mention gear and now non existent traits. to everyone: get an alt with no stats and try to prepare it for pvp. try. i dare you. mechanics are so broken its not worth it anymore, armor dissipates quickly and takes weeks to make and repair, dark rooming does not produce regals , and worst of all no one understands that's a problem on the server because we already had the stats from when it was easy.
its why i quit pvp, and for a while massive. being pitted against those who have been playing for so many more years than me with gear that took weeks to make was so horrible of an experience it drove me away.

 

[jquaile]

the reason pvp is dead is because of the "big boys club", and the fact that it takes a month to get the stats for pvp, not to mention gear and now non existent traits. to everyone: get an alt with no stats and try to prepare it for pvp. try. i dare you. mechanics are so broken its not worth it anymore, armor dissipates quickly and takes weeks to make and repair, dark rooming does not produce regals , and worst of all no one understands that's a problem on the server because we already had the stats from when it was easy.
its why i quit pvp, and for a while massive. being pitted against those who have been playing for so many more years than me with gear that took weeks to make was so horrible of an experience it drove me away.

Click to shrink...

 

[Chappers]

Well nothing really bothers me due to the fact I'm the best MassiveCraft PvPer ever existed, I could drop entire army of people with Murphy by my side

 

[HeartAched]

the reason pvp is dead is because of the "big boys club", and the fact that it takes a month to get the stats for pvp, not to mention gear and now non existent traits. to everyone: get an alt with no stats and try to prepare it for pvp. try. i dare you. mechanics are so broken its not worth it anymore, armor dissipates quickly and takes weeks to make and repair, dark rooming does not produce regals , and worst of all no one understands that's a problem on the server because we already had the stats from when it was easy.
its why i quit pvp, and for a while massive. being pitted against those who have been playing for so many more years than me with gear that took weeks to make was so horrible of an experience it drove me away.

Click to shrink...

God gear is so easy to get it's actually hysterical. Ask anyone with 1k repair to repair your god armor.. it takes 1 diamond and 10 seconds of your time, while keeping all of your enchants. I was in a darkroom for 15 minutes yesterday and made 150r... not that hard to make money. I'm not arguing your point of pvping is dead, but the reasons you gave were meh.

 

[Mecharic]

1: Its all the same people. Most of the people who were PvPing when I left are still the most relevant PvPers now, and it has been that way for three years. Here and there some new PvPers come up and emerge, but i would say 60% of the people who are in factions considered "good" at PvP have played for years, and most of those who aren't still playing got banned. This could be wrong due to my limited time back, but my question is why aren't many new players PvPing?

Click to shrink...

Because it's not easy to do so. PvP has never been the easiest form of gameplay on Massive, or really anywhere. And none of the existing PvPers are willing or able to admit it. Here's what I mean: @HeartAched casually mentions that armor is dirt cheap - and from the perspective of a well-off, older player like them, that's a true statement. From the perspective of someone who's considering getting into PvP, it's not nearly as accurate a statement to make. It is not easy for people to get into PvP. If it was, more people would do so. And yet, every time people say as much they get shouted down as wanting to be "spoon fed" skill and ability in PvP.

2: There are a lot less PvPers. I remember battles where there would be 10 people from each faction fighting, and now for a lot of "PvP Factions" there aren't even 10 players in the entire faction. I think this relates to there not being many new massive PvPers in the scene, but where did the large battles go?

Click to shrink...

This ties directly into the above reply - PvP is the most difficult aspect of MassiveCraft gameplay to get into. Once you reach the level of being a "good" PvPer with resources and such, you're set. You can PvP, you have the resources to replace what's lost and the skill to win. But actually getting into PvP is not as easy as building, or roleplaying, or questing. PvP is no longer an option for Casual Gamers like myself. I remember when I used to defend my factions even if I died 50 times. Hell, 4 years ago I was charging out of old Osai against Argonia even when my armor was on the ropes and I'd lost my weapon. Now, since there's no possibility of victory, I just let the PvPers wander an empty city while I keep my limited gear & supplies. And PvPers won't accept this reality - they refuse to consider that PvP could be too difficult for many players to even bother with.

3: New rules, game changes and what not. I remember when I parted ways from massive, my reason for leaving was because I just left too long and didn't understand how PvP worked on the server, and I was too lazy to learn it. Now with traits removed from PvP, I think i got the hang of it (though I did get called out by some faction members for only using the wrong potions). So what I noticed since I left is to my knowledge, there is no external effects such as traits or races which altar PvP.

Click to shrink...

PvP on MassiveCraft right now is vanilla PvP + McMMo. There is nothing unique about it. Races & Traits made it more unique, more complex, and made it possible for casual gamers like myself to defend because we could use traits to patch up the weaknesses we have as PvPers. The removal of traits was possibly the final death knell for casual PvP on MassiveCraft - since then I've attempted to defend my faction exactly once, against Toku, and even with 6 of us against 1 of him, we lost. An ally from a "PvP Faction" had to kill him and get our gear back. With traits, I could do serious damage to a PvPer like Toku on my own, and had a chance or a hope of victory. Now? I don't have any chance, and thus no reason to defend.

Now, I'd like to place some special attention on @jquaile's well thought-out, in-depth, and intelligent reply to @LadyToxicScythe. That reply is the reason PvP will never come back. People who constantly shut down any other opinion on the matter as "wrong" without even acknowledging the opinion or considering that maybe they have a point from the perspective of someone who doesn't PvP but wants to. They are the biggest problem with PvP on Massive. The "community" of PvPers are their own worst enemy.

So I know this thread is kind of all over the place, but I would like to wrap up and collect my thoughts here. Since I left, honestly quite a bit has changed (concerning PvP at least), but not as much as I initially thought. My question to you guys is could massive PvP ever become what it once was; the huge, popular, and fun scene with enjoyable battles and deep rooted rivalry? If not why, and if so, how?

P.S. Sorry if I violated any forum rules or got anything wrong, as I stated I've been gone awhile, I might of forgot some things

Click to shrink...

North, I loved the old PvP battles. I remember raiding Valyria, defending Osai, fighting at Serenum and 9thLegion, and even holding my own back in the day. But it will never come back. So long as MassiveCraft PvP caters towards only full-time PvPers in the survival worlds, PvP will continue to shrink, die, and wither away. The only way to expand PvP on Massive is to make it easier to start PvPing - but any suggestion that would work towards this method has been met by massive pushback from the full-time PvPers who don't want to risk their position as the 'strongest' or don't think it's difficult enough despite the steadily decreasing number of people who PvP. So long as PvPers aren't willing to make PvP easier (regardless of their "explanations" for why it's "easy") the server will continue to see fewer and fewer battles, wars, and conflicts.

 

[65jes89]

Because it's not easy to do so. PvP has never been the easiest form of gameplay on Massive, or really anywhere. And none of the existing PvPers are willing or able to admit it. Here's what I mean: @HeartAched casually mentions that armor is dirt cheap - and from the perspective of a well-off, older player like them, that's a true statement. From the perspective of someone who's considering getting into PvP, it's not nearly as accurate a statement to make. It is not easy for people to get into PvP. If it was, more people would do so. And yet, every time people say as much they get shouted down as wanting to be "spoon fed" skill and ability in PvP.



This ties directly into the above reply - PvP is the most difficult aspect of MassiveCraft gameplay to get into. Once you reach the level of being a "good" PvPer with resources and such, you're set. You can PvP, you have the resources to replace what's lost and the skill to win. But actually getting into PvP is not as easy as building, or roleplaying, or questing. PvP is no longer an option for Casual Gamers like myself. I remember when I used to defend my factions even if I died 50 times. Hell, 4 years ago I was charging out of old Osai against Argonia even when my armor was on the ropes and I'd lost my weapon. Now, since there's no possibility of victory, I just let the PvPers wander an empty city while I keep my limited gear & supplies. And PvPers won't accept this reality - they refuse to consider that PvP could be too difficult for many players to even bother with.



PvP on MassiveCraft right now is vanilla PvP + McMMo. There is nothing unique about it. Races & Traits made it more unique, more complex, and made it possible for casual gamers like myself to defend because we could use traits to patch up the weaknesses we have as PvPers. The removal of traits was possibly the final death knell for casual PvP on MassiveCraft - since then I've attempted to defend my faction exactly once, against Toku, and even with 6 of us against 1 of him, we lost. An ally from a "PvP Faction" had to kill him and get our gear back. With traits, I could do serious damage to a PvPer like Toku on my own, and had a chance or a hope of victory. Now? I don't have any chance, and thus no reason to defend.

Now, I'd like to place some special attention on @jquaile's well thought-out, in-depth, and intelligent reply to @LadyToxicScythe. That reply is the reason PvP will never come back. People who constantly shut down any other opinion on the matter as "wrong" without even acknowledging the opinion or considering that maybe they have a point from the perspective of someone who doesn't PvP but wants to. They are the biggest problem with PvP on Massive. The "community" of PvPers are their own worst enemy.



North, I loved the old PvP battles. I remember raiding Valyria, defending Osai, fighting at Serenum and 9thLegion, and even holding my own back in the day. But it will never come back. So long as MassiveCraft PvP caters towards only full-time PvPers in the survival worlds, PvP will continue to shrink, die, and wither away. The only way to expand PvP on Massive is to make it easier to start PvPing - but any suggestion that would work towards this method has been met by massive pushback from the full-time PvPers who don't want to risk their position as the 'strongest' or don't think it's difficult enough despite the steadily decreasing number of people who PvP. So long as PvPers aren't willing to make PvP easier (regardless of their "explanations" for why it's "easy") the server will continue to see fewer and fewer battles, wars, and conflicts.

Click to shrink...

I fail to see how traits could have possibly impacted your performance in PvP that much. Or really give you anything more than the placebo effect.

 

[Mecharic]

I fail to see how traits could have possibly impacted your performance in PvP that much. Or really give you anything more than the placebo effect.

Click to shrink...

They did. Traits was a balancer - it let someone like me, who doesn't have the resources for PotPvP, to enjoy fairly balanced combat with enemies. I've killed people when using the right trait build. I've never killed someone without using traits.

As for placebo... I don't think that word means what you think it means. It means that someone "feels an effect when in reality there is none" which is very different from my experiences with PvP & traits.

 

[65jes89]

They did. Traits was a balancer - it let someone like me, who doesn't have the resources for PotPvP, to enjoy fairly balanced combat with enemies. I've killed people when using the right trait build. I've never killed someone without using traits.

As for placebo... I don't think that word means what you think it means. It means that someone "feels an effect when in reality there is none" which is very different from my experiences with PvP & traits.

Click to shrink...

I've never had any experience in which I could kill someone I was unable to kill when traits were around, nor have I ever been killed by someone who was unable to kill me when traits were around, and I'd say I've probably PvPed a whole lot more than you, under both scenarios. I'm not confused about the meaning of the placebo effect, there just was not anything which would affect your ability to pvp.

 

[Mecharic]

I've never had any experience in which I could kill someone I was unable to kill when traits were around, nor have I ever been killed by someone who was unable to kill me when traits were around, and I'd say I've probably PvPed a whole lot more than you, under both scenarios. I'm not confused about the meaning of the placebo effect, there just was not anything which would affect your ability to pvp.

Click to shrink...

That's because you are a skilled PvPer with lots of resources at your back. You can kill people with or without traits. Not everyone has that level of skill, ability, knowledge, and resources. As I stated in my original post, PvPers like you (who are already among the 'best') don't have the issues that casual or new PvPers have. And you have a great deal of difficulty understanding or accepting that other people don't have the same ability you have in PvP. Did you even read my post?

 

[_Saltyy_]

I think pvp shouldn't have mcstats and should be vanilla, ya massivemagic may help, or it may not and end up like massive traits, a total disaster. I'd say just make it vanilla and add some seige plugins and your good.

 

[65jes89]

That's because you are a skilled PvPer with lots of resources at your back. You can kill people with or without traits. Not everyone has that level of skill, ability, knowledge, and resources. As I stated in my original post, PvPers like you (who are already among the 'best') don't have the issues that casual or new PvPers have. And you have a great deal of difficulty understanding or accepting that other people don't have the same ability you have in PvP. Did you even read my post?

Click to shrink...

Yes, and I just fail to see what your point is. Traits is not going to help you, or anyone else, do any better against PvPers. As I remember, you PvPed no more when traits was around than you do currently, which, in both cases, is not at all. I understand that not everyone is as good as me in PvP, but traits isn't going to fix that. And in that case, I don't understand what the purpose of adding it back is. Everyone will lose just as much, and win just as much, it'll just be more unbalanced. What do you want us to do, start playing with trackpads so that we don't win as much?

 

[BenRekt]

no

sorry north

 

[BenRekt]

To answer one of your questions, the reason most new people dont pvp, is because most people dont want to put in the time or effort to get 600 unarmed and 800 combat stats just to be relevant. Not to mention most new comers join smaller factions that get bullied and get turned off from the server, because no one wants to be in a faction where they cant leave the F home for hours at a time.

Click to shrink...

The funniest part about this sentiment is the fact that most PvPers would probably actually be in favor of getting rid of McMMO. I'm someone who has maxed out almost every PvP McMMO stat and even I would enjoy having McMMO removed. PvP should be easy to get into and hard to master, not a huge grind to even stand a chance.

 

[65jes89]

The funniest part about this sentiment is the fact that most PvPers would probably actually be in favor of getting rid of McMMO. I'm someone who has maxed out almost every PvP McMMO stat and even I would enjoy having McMMO removed. PvP should be easy to get into and hard to master, not a huge grind to even stand a chance.

Click to shrink...

I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat.

 

[Knyxo]

The funniest part about this sentiment is the fact that most PvPers would probably actually be in favor of getting rid of McMMO. I'm someone who has maxed out almost every PvP McMMO stat and even I would enjoy having McMMO removed. PvP should be easy to get into and hard to master, not a huge grind to even stand a chance.

Click to shrink...

Well, the abilities like skullsplitter and super breaker are really nice to have. It's just the fact that there's grinding involved that really doesn't need to be there. Whenever this topic is brought up though, people are like 'but you can get all the stats you need in X amount of time with a good darkroom' or 'stats make almost no difference' which, while not necessarily incorrect statements, are irrelevant when everyone could instead have all the abilities unlocked from the get go instead of having to grind for them and literally nothing would change gameplay wise other than potentially more players. It makes no sense that people should have to grind unarmed, just so the occasional unarmed user can't make them drop their weapon. Or that people have to deliberately waste tons of potion materials to level alchemy if they want to be able to make their own absorption potions instead of buying them all the time. And yeah, the grind is easy if you're dedicated to it. But that doesn't mean it should be that way when it could be more accessible to new players otherwise, which is only a positive thing.

 

[jquaile]

 

[Sevak]

I'm late to this but anyone who has previously stated that pvp is too hard to get into because of the experienced pvpers and their factions is, as jquaile said, wrong. I've played for 2 and a half years now. From pvping I've collected over twenty double chests of god weapons. Unfortunately I did not spawn in with them, I earned them. When I first started playing I had never played minecraft before in my life. It took me a while to get decent at, and I lost a hell of a lot more than I wanted to in terms of God weapons and Sevak heads in the process. When I started playing I was getting constantly raided by Deldrimor, Damorn, Raptum and Crypt. I don't think there was ever once though that I stood inside and hid though. I never whined about being raided. I never complained when I was out of weapons. Maybe it's just me but it seems like most of the time now a days there's no pvp because people don't have the backbone to lose a weapon. Which is funny because god weapon prices are a tenth of what they were when I started. That's the only way there's ever going to be more pvp. People fighting back, until they get good at it. If you don't try you can never succeed.

The other thing I think causes there to be no pvp is a lack of new factions that actually play in the factions world. I swear /f list has been the same for the past year and a half now. Tyberia, Mithril, Deldrimor, Raptum, some renamed versions of other old factions, etc. When pvp was active the fights weren't always between factions that were purely pvp. A lot of raids took place in hybrid factions that just recruited players whether they did rp, pvp or whatever. There were the factions that were purely pvp e.g. magnanimus, raptum, Deldrimor, but most raids happened at some faction that was allied to one of the main sides. When a faction got raided by one side, the opposing side would sort of adopt them, and help them defend, adding them to one side of the Mag/Raptum proxy war. Civitas, Atheria, Viserys, Arthain and in more recent days, Byzantium (@Nikephorus) are some good examples. Lots of people complained about the proxy war because they thought it would be fun to have more than two sides. And now here we are with out any sides. I suggest we make them. If you don't think your faction is ready to fight back, find someone who can help you out and shadow them during raids until you can. Deldrimor and Raptum are allied, so that forms one side, if you're enemies with us, maybe allying yourself with Wyvern or Latronis is a good idea to back you up.

For the sake of me not rambling on all day I'm just going to conclude this by saying that a lot of what I'm saying is just my personal opinion. I've thought about the way the server used to be and compared it to how it is now. These are just two things I've picked up on. I really think it's time for us to stop discussing what's wrong with PvP and take the initiative ourselves to go and raid, or start a faction, or anything else you think would help.

Going to tag some faction leaders who I really think could take on what I just wrote about above
@Aespair @Genecide65 @jes_ @Alj23 @Praetextatus @Kushiban @onearmsquid @Altarion_ @MaximusStark

 

[Sevak]

One more thing I want to add sorry. Im not a fan of the fact that traits got removed but we still have health boost and absorption in the form of potions. Could we discuss the possibility of taking those two out of the equation in fights? Maybe it's just me but alchemy isn't the most exciting part of my pvp experience

@PvP

 

[Zacatero]

One more thing I want to add sorry. Im not a fan of the fact that traits got removed but we still have health boost and absorption in the form of potions. Could we discuss the possibility of taking those two out of the equation in fights? Maybe it's just me but alchemy isn't the most exciting part of my pvp experience

@PvP

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Those two specific potions, fortunately, if they were removed in PvP... I don't think it would ruin the potions market, so i cant really see any downside to that tbh.

But let me ask.. what is it about those two you dont like in pvp?

 

[Optimalfriskies]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd have to ask you this: if people aren't willing to put in the time to raise their stats to PvP on massive, why are they willing to do so on practically every other MMO in existence? It could obviously be argued that Massivecraft is not an MMORPG, however, that's exactly what it's advertised as, so what's the deal?

I'll admit, I don't PvP on minecraft anymore and I probably never will again, yet I absolutely adore factions as well as that hardcore rivalry North mentioned above. It really is a shame that Massive PvP is in the state that it is right now, but do you know why that is? When it comes to declining PvP on Massivecraft, I really think it boils down to the base game of Minecraft itself. Let me put it this way; why would I ever want to put up with Minecraft's clunky, frustrating controls when litterally any other modern game does it better?

Don't get me wrong, I love Massivecraft and I'll be here until it dies, but there's only so much they can do with what is, effecitvely, and old, and very tired game. If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

Click to shrink...

Simple answer, the gameplay isn't immersive. Comparing minecraft to games like WoW is equivalent to comparing Roblox shooting stages to Call of duty, at least in my head.

 

[Sevak]

Those two specific potions, fortunately, if they were removed in PvP... I don't think it would ruin the potions market, so i cant really see any downside to that tbh.

But let me ask.. what is it about those two you dont like in pvp?

Click to shrink...

The fact that we removed traits (which I never had a problem with tbh) and now we have the same effects in the form of potions. It makes sense i guess. Might just be my nostalgia reminding me of the good old days when it was just strength speed health haha. But really, the simpler the better right now

 

[Aespair]

The fact that we removed traits (which I never had a problem with tbh) and now we have the same effects in the form of potions. It makes sense i guess. Might just be my nostalgia reminding me of the good old days when it was just strength speed health haha. But really, the simpler the better right now

Click to shrink...

I personally only ever use Str2, Sp2, and H2 because I don't really see the McMmo pots as necessary for me to pvp. And I'm also too lazy to grind alchemy.

 

[Sevak]

I personally only ever use Str2, Sp2, and H2 because I don't really see the McMmo pots as necessary for me to pvp. And I'm also too lazy to grind alchemy.

Click to shrink...

It's unfortunate that not having the mcmmo pots makes you incredibly squishy

 

[Alj23]

MassiveCraft PVP is whatever we make of the current environment. You as the player have 100% control over how fun PVP is or isn't for you.

That's not to say there doesn't need to be some staff influence such as when it comes to rules on PVP or implementation of features that specifically affects PVP mechanics. But even if the staff made everything exactly how PVPers say they want it, it would still be up to the PVP to create joy from PVP themselves.

 

[65jes89]

One more thing I want to add sorry. Im not a fan of the fact that traits got removed but we still have health boost and absorption in the form of potions. Could we discuss the possibility of taking those two out of the equation in fights? Maybe it's just me but alchemy isn't the most exciting part of my pvp experience

@PvP

Click to shrink...

I'd be happy with those being removed as well ^^

 

[Zacatero]

I'd be happy with those being removed as well ^^

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Do you have any preference about the PVP traits?

 

[65jes89]

MassiveCraft PVP is whatever we make of the current environment. You as the player have 100% control over how fun PVP is or isn't for you.

That's not to say there doesn't need to be some staff influence such as when it comes to rules on PVP or implementation of features that specifically affects PVP mechanics. But even if the staff made everything exactly how PVPers say they want it, it would still be up to the PVP to create joy from PVP themselves.

Click to shrink...

Are you actually suggesting we boycott absorption and hb pots... tell me I read that wrong...

 

[65jes89]

Do you have any preference about the PVP traits?

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Considering I was one of the major proponents for getting traits removed, yeah I don't like them

 

[Alj23]

Are you actually suggesting we boycott absorption and hb pots... tell me I read that wrong...

Click to shrink...

I wasn't referencing anything in specific, hence me never mentioning potions in my comment. Simply that a large portion of the PVP environment is controlled by PVPers.

Every large scale factions/survival world event that had to do with PVP was created by PVPers. Staff didn't wake up one day and say, "Hey, I think we'll try and insinuate a massive war in the survival worlds today. " That was all done by the PVPers of the time.

I'm aware that the current environment does not respond well to raids by PVPers, specially when it comes to fighting back. Maybe that's a side affect of the way PVP is on this server. Maybe it's because people don't want to get involved with the PVP community. Maybe it's something the staff did. I don't know the answer.

What I do know is that individual players have a large influence on the MassiveCraft PVP environment. Look at player like spectec, Kapry, Fube, etc. All of those players had very distinct and significant effects on the MassiveCraft PVP environment.

What I'm arguing with the above paragraph is that an individual dedicated enough can shape the PVP environment in any way they want. Can the MassiveCraft PVP environment return to what it once was is becoming an old topic. MassiveCraft PVP is ever evolving. Even if it evolves back into a form we've seen before with slight differences, it's not the exact same PVP environment, therefore it has evolved. MassiveCraft does not favor the little individual or the big individual. It favors all. Any player with enough determination can shape PVP anyway they want.

 

[BenRekt]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd have to ask you this: if people aren't willing to put in the time to raise their stats to PvP on massive, why are they willing to do so on practically every other MMO in existence? It could obviously be argued that Massivecraft is not an MMORPG, however, that's exactly what it's advertised as, so what's the deal?

I'll admit, I don't PvP on minecraft anymore and I probably never will again, yet I absolutely adore factions as well as that hardcore rivalry North mentioned above. It really is a shame that Massive PvP is in the state that it is right now, but do you know why that is? When it comes to declining PvP on Massivecraft, I really think it boils down to the base game of Minecraft itself. Let me put it this way; why would I ever want to put up with Minecraft's clunky, frustrating controls when litterally any other modern game does it better?

Don't get me wrong, I love Massivecraft and I'll be here until it dies, but there's only so much they can do with what is, effecitvely, and old, and very tired game. If anyone ever wants to hit me up for some Mount and Blade PvP, hell yeah, but minecraft? No thanks.

Click to shrink...

Why do people refuse to train McMMO? Because the PvP part of Massive is absolutely dead excluding the few dedicated players trying to keep it alive on life support. The real reason nobody trains McMMO is because there's literally no reason to when nobody plays and there is no incentive to play. Training McMMO at this point would be like paying for a membership to a dying MMORPG that maxes out at 10 players during peak times. The reason people trained McMMO is because the annoying, boring, awful grind was without a doubt WORTH IT. The epic 15 vs 15 fights, the intense rivalry between factions and especially the idea that people would play with a sense of honor and either defend their faction with everything they had or actually USE the surrender feature is extinct on Massive because everyone would rather be a troll and sight inside their base than risk losing their items (which as @Sevak pointed out are basically worthless at this point).

As a serious response to "can Massive get better?" here is my serious response on things that I think will almost definitely encourage PvP. They are dramatic but I think some of these need to be done otherwise PvP will continue its slow but steady decline.

• Complete removal of McMMO
• Significantly increase the cost of a faction and then decrease faction cost
• Force factions to surrender if they make no genuine efforts to actually defend themselves
• Create a temporary server shop where people can sell their EXTREME surplus of god gear and weapons for higher prices than the dirt cheap price they are now
• Finish and implement Silverwind so RPers can have fun as well (not a must, but something a LOT of player really want, though I know @MonMarty and the team ARE working hard and have a lot on their plate)

Tagging relevant people
@FubeTheMangler @jquaile @Alj23 @jes_ @Knyxor @Chappers65 @HeartAched @North

EDIT:

Moving this to its own post, not going to derail North's post.

https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/revamping-pvp.52156/

 

[Celeras]

I'd rather potions just lasted longer so you don't have to carry a butt load and keep refreshing them in combat. That would alleviate the problem with potions at least for me.