Archived Armor Drop Change

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eman1000

eman1000

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Before all of you flaming naysayers rip me into pieces over my idea, please understand that this is only an idea. I don't necessarily believe it's suitable, but I'm interested to hear constructive feedback.

In a different thread, @Rooseus touched briefly on a serious issue; how utterly stupid PVP is today. It is completely pay to play. A fight is only fair if there is equal risk, which is not the case when armor is not dropped. Here is my idea:

Premiums will keep their armor after death, no matter what material, so long as it is unenchanted.

God armor destroys any chance of non-premium participation, unless the non-premium doesn't mind risking throwing away 750 regals worth of armor, while their opponent risks none of theirs.

(Basically, everything else is me ranting. Feel free to read for entertainment purposes)

Long ago, back in the good 'ol days before god armor, potion spamming, and ridiculous MCMMO boosts, war was great. Some of the older players may remember my brief time as the Emperor of the Serenum Empire, raiding BeeRando daily with dozens or premiums and non-premiums alike. It was balanced, entertaining, and unifying. Nothing in the world matches the feeling of storming up a hillside, two dozen soldiers following closely, with the knowledge that not everyone will survive, yet comfort in the fact that everyone was mortal.

Premiums are immortal. Kill them, they come back with the same armor you tried so hard to pierce. This is not war, my brothers! Do not be satisfied with this calculated and systematic activity once known as PVP!

Comments, questions, opinions, and rants are welcome!
 
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I understand your idea, however I'm not sure I completely agree with it. Many features have been takes away from premiums (Diamond armor, for example) and the need/desire to become premium is fading. The server needs funds, and that is just a fact. And anyone can easily buy premium if they want to, It's not like any of us are starving and homeless. If you have the money to buy a $25 game and a computer nice enough to deal with Massivecraft's lag, most likely you are able to afford premium, you just are saving money or chose not to. So, in conclusion, it would be a nice idea if this server wasn't so dependent on the money they receive for Premium purchases.
 
Rooseus said:
Not sure what you did back in the old days mecharic, but all of what has been stated by me has already been proven right here on massivecraft. Back when there wasen't as many premiums, pvp worked perfectly.

Also, not surrendering to the raiders when loosing are and has always been Childish and stupid. Makes wars completly pointless.
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Back in the old days I died a lot. Since I got tired of losing my items I purchased premium and haven't gone a solid month without it since. Back when there weren't a lot of premiums the server was as follows:
  • A single world map.
  • A single spawn town with little roleplay.
  • Minimal staff.
  • Limited Plugins.
I personally like my larger, better MassiveCraft. So I will keep donated and keep arguing to protect it.
 
While making god armor droppable certainly increases the chances that raids or battles actually matter in wars, I'm not sure wether sacrificing the fun of a raid is worth it. The average high tier pvp'er has about 20 to 30 sets lying around, while the mid range has about 5. Losing that feeling that you could go raid at any time and have some fun, but instead have to think about who you're going to raid and pose a huge risk to yourself might be too big of a sacrifice.
 
MonMarty said:
While making god armor droppable certainly increases the chances that raids or battles actually matter in wars, I'm not sure wether sacrificing the fun of a raid is worth it. The average high tier pvp'er has about 20 to 30 sets lying around, while the mid range has about 5. Losing that feeling that you could go raid at any time and have some fun, but instead have to think about who you're going to raid and pose a huge risk to yourself might be too big of a sacrifice.
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Most of the 'high tier' PvPers I know only have about 5-10, 20-30 is ridiculously high really.

Also, you are really good at surveying a playerbase of 2000 people that accurately. Sorry I just had to hehe
 
Joshy54100 said:
Most of the 'high tier' PvPers I know only have about 5-10, 20-30 is ridiculously high really.

Also, you are really good at surveying a playerbase of 2000 people that accurately. Sorry I just had to hehe
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Eh, I based those numbers off assumptions. I imagined if a "Top tier" pvp'er had less than god sets than Mecharic, they'd be doing something wrong (or right?; I don't know, I don't PVP)
 
MonMarty said:
Eh, I based those numbers off assumptions. I imagined if a "Top tier" pvp'er had less than god sets than Mecharic, they'd be doing something wrong (or right?; I don't know, I don't PVP)
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Well, considering I purchased mine to supply Hisoka but no one qualified, I'd say I'm a bad way to judge it :P
 
PVP isnt pay to play. PVP is skill vs skill. If its a non prem on a prem, its skill vs skill and perk
The only advantages premiums have is a bit of a damage reduction and a shorter cool down on their mcmmo power skills.
 
KSTRandom said:
PVP isnt pay to play. PVP is skill vs skill. If its a non prem on a prem, its skill vs skill and perk
The only advantages premiums have is a bit of a damage reduction and a shorter cool down on their mcmmo power skills
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Like I mentioned earlier, Undead + Prem will only gain a measly 1.5% percent when stacked with god armor. (approximate number)
So, two god armored players, one a non-prem and the other a prem with the undead race, suggesting they use the same weapon and have the same power level with that weapon, and use similar tactics, the premium will probably have a 50.1% chance of winning with this tiny boost and the non-prem 49.9%
 
NU! No von is qualified esept meh! ALL MAHN! :P

Wannag, I'm pretty sure I gave you a set too, I started out with like 45 sets and now I'm down to like... 35.
 
@eman1000 back in the good ole days, if someone didn't come out while being raided, a dirt box was built around their base... Ahhhh good times.
 
Nico07291 said:
Like I mentioned earlier, Undead + Prem will only gain a measly 1.5% percent when stacked with god armor. (approximate number)
So, two god armored players, one a non-prem and the other a prem with the undead race, suggesting they use the same weapon and have the same power level with that weapon, and use similar tactics, the premium will probably have a 50.1% chance of winning with this tiny boost and the non-prem 49.9%
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Im not sure what you're saying exactly, its late, but I will say this, and I'm pretty sure im agreeing with you- God armor gives 88%-96% reduction, and prem gives a 15% reduction, and so does undead. However its 15% of the stuff already reduced by god armor, and then the stuff already reduced by premium. it sounds real big, but its not that great of an advantage, mathematically atleast. It'd be roughly 60% v 40%, because of the power cool down reductions and added damage reduction. I'd be willing to say at least 55% v 45%. But my original estimate is my preffered.
 
Mecharic said:
Back in the old days I died a lot. Since I got tired of losing my items I purchased premium and haven't gone a solid month without it since. Back when there weren't a lot of premiums the server was as follows:
  • A single world map.
  • A single spawn town with little roleplay.
  • Minimal staff.
  • Limited Plugins.
I personally like my larger, better MassiveCraft. So I will keep donated and keep arguing to protect it.
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I'm not saying the old massivecraft is general was batter, but i believe the pvp was. Those things you mentioned weren't caused becouse you lost armor on death.
 
MonMarty said:
While making god armor droppable certainly increases the chances that raids or battles actually matter in wars, I'm not sure wether sacrificing the fun of a raid is worth it. The average high tier pvp'er has about 20 to 30 sets lying around, while the mid range has about 5. Losing that feeling that you could go raid at any time and have some fun, but instead have to think about who you're going to raid and pose a huge risk to yourself might be too big of a sacrifice.
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I only see this as an increase of the fun within the raids. But i suppose we all experience "fun" quite differen't.
 
Lets just put this out there and say, What about the premium who is horrible at PvP. And He likes the fact he keeps his armour, and he buys premium for that and the damage reduction. Why Would he pay to lose his armour, That to me is just insane. Remember not even premium has skill, Most of them like to keep their armour in PvP. And if you take that away, Like I said the chance of them paying again would be slim to none. And The Server Needs more premiums to pay for the existence of the server, But Oh well, That is how I think about this whole thing.
 
I still think that the best way to stabilise PvP would be to keep premium as it is but remove the damage and protection enchants from the medieval server. We already have mcmmo to provide us with extra damage and now that the Alchemy skill has been added mcmmo will also be usable for protection.
Basically PvP enchants are just overkill when used together with Premium and mcmmo and I think wars would be better off without them.
 
[XvW] said:
I still think that the best way to stabilise PvP would be to keep premium as it is but remove the damage and protection enchants from the medieval server. We already have mcmmo to provide us with extra damage and now that the Alchemy skill has been added mcmmo will also be usable for protection.
Basically PvP enchants are just overkill when used together with Premium and mcmmo and I think wars would be better off without them.
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Or, They could keep the premiums The way they are because It was fine before everyone wanted to change it, it bothers me, Like why is everyone wanting changes. I like the old not to New. You guys change to much, NO offence but the admins are getting a little to power crazy with bans, You could give people a warning before you ban them for Ban evading, Like. If you guys see them you don't even give them a chance to explain themselfes, But You guys are the admins, I was just hoping you took what i said in to account.
 
Warlord_hobbs said:
Or, They could keep the premiums The way they are because It was fine before everyone wanted to change it, it bothers me, Like why is everyone wanting changes. I like the old not to New. You guys change to much, NO offence but the admins are getting a little to power crazy with bans, You could give people a warning before you ban them for Ban evading, Like. If you guys see them you don't even give them a chance to explain themselfes, But You guys are the admins, I was just hoping you took what i said in to account.
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I'm sorry but I do not see what that has to do with my comment. I too said that premium was fine as it is and that they should look at other things to improve pvp.
Even so, Why would you get a warning when ban evading? It's like getting thrown out of a club and then sneaking back in 5 minutes later expecting the bouncer to let you stay because you changed outfit.
 
Rooseus said:
I'm not saying the old massivecraft is general was batter, but i believe the pvp was. Those things you mentioned weren't caused becouse you lost armor on death.
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They were caused by lack of funding really. And dropping armor, in my opinion, would lower the premium count enough that the server would start to degrade again because Cayorion wouldn't be able to live off of the income and thus would need to get another job besides MassiveCraft thus lowering the time he has to code. And the PvP sucked in old Massive, the only reason people think it was better is because people always remember the past fondly even if it sucked.
 
Mecharic said:
They were caused by lack of funding really. And dropping armor, in my opinion, would lower the premium count enough that the server would start to degrade again because Cayorion wouldn't be able to live off of the income and thus would need to get another job besides MassiveCraft thus lowering the time he has to code. And the PvP sucked in old Massive, the only reason people think it was better is because people always remember the past fondly even if it sucked.
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No, actually the reason is pvp was more fun is becouse wars made a difference. Today they don't, the raids themselfs are also kind of lame seing shiny blue people porting around spamming potions.
 
Rooseus said:
No, actually the reason is pvp was more fun is becouse wars made a difference. Today they don't, the raids themselfs are also kind of lame seing shiny blue people porting around spamming potions.
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Then request that the server remove enchanting, or remove diamond armor overall, or change the texture of enchanted armor and diamond armor to be less tin-can-that-glows. People dropping armor won't cause everyone to PvP, it will cause everyone to stop except those few people with the money, time, and/or dedication to make a dozen or two dozen sets of god armor so that they can afford to die every so often. Wars will cease to exist on MassiveCraft is armor is dropped because people won't see that as a good thing - they will see it as having lost something and no longer being able to take the risk of PvP.
 
Mecharic said:
Then request that the server remove enchanting, or remove diamond armor overall, or change the texture of enchanted armor and diamond armor to be less tin-can-that-glows. People dropping armor won't cause everyone to PvP, it will cause everyone to stop except those few people with the money, time, and/or dedication to make a dozen or two dozen sets of god armor so that they can afford to die every so often. Wars will cease to exist on MassiveCraft is armor is dropped because people won't see that as a good thing - they will see it as having lost something and no longer being able to take the risk of PvP.
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I simply don't agree with you, people will wear less valuable items instead. They won't stop pvping, more people with rather join the fight since everyone can participate not just those who have farmed for a year.
 
Rooseus said:
I simply don't agree with you, people will wear less valuable items instead. They won't stop pvping, more people with rather join the fight since everyone can participate not just those who have farmed for a year.
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that's how you want it, we can't know if that will happen, we can't know if what is @Mecharic is saying is going to happen to but his theory is far more plausible i think
 
arthur said:
that's how you want it, we can't know if that will happen, we can't know if what is @Mecharic is saying is going to happen to but his theory is far more plausible i think
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I know it's going to happen becouse it has already been proven here on massivecraft. We who have been here for a while know that.
 
Rooseus said:
I know it's going to happen becouse it has already been proven here on massivecraft. We who have been here for a while know that.
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Except I, as someone who's been here over two years and was part of a faction that once purchased a ship at Lukkerdam, think otherwise. So it is not confirmed that dropping armor would make it better, it is just your perception.
 
Mecharic said:
Except I, as someone who's been here over two years and was part of a faction that once purchased a ship at Lukkerdam, think otherwise. So it is not confirmed that dropping armor would make it better, it is just your perception.
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From what you told me, you diden't participate in the raids back then. And I, as someone who's been here over two years aswell and actually raided back then believe it was greater. However, i suppose it is a matter of opinion as you said.
 
One more thing I wanted to add, this could lower the price for god stuff or making it more, Im not sure but it would make it easier to get from killing people but also harder to keep, so Im not sure :/
 
one other thing, you would keep your stuff (all of it) after death if you don't some one in 30 seconds.
 
Perhaps I was wrong in thinking drops/no drops was the issue. In general, another serious issue it how quickly you die w/o god armor. Perhaps this will come more into play with the traits plugin, but I now realize the core of the problem could very well be how quickly battles are over. If all players had 3 times as much health, and weapon damage was not increased, battles would be longer and more interesting. Any thoughts on this?
 
eman1000 said:
Perhaps I was wrong in thinking drops/no drops was the issue. In general, another serious issue it how quickly you die w/o god armor. Perhaps this will come more into play with the traits plugin, but I now realize the core of the problem could very well be how quickly battles are over. If all players had 3 times as much health, and weapon damage was not increased, battles would be longer and more interesting. Any thoughts on this?
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It would increase the pvp aspects indeed. But it doesen't fit within faction wars. This you can do on the arena, but between the factions we want real wars.
 
MonMarty said:
While making god armor droppable certainly increases the chances that raids or battles actually matter in wars, I'm not sure wether sacrificing the fun of a raid is worth it. The average high tier pvp'er has about 20 to 30 sets lying around, while the mid range has about 5. Losing that feeling that you could go raid at any time and have some fun, but instead have to think about who you're going to raid and pose a huge risk to yourself might be too big of a sacrifice.
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While I agree with you partially, putting myself in the shoes of a new player with only a few sets or even just one, I think I would want to go seek some help with pvp, maybe get a mentor or something and try to capitalize off of being able to get god armor, and most pvp factions encourage non prems to buy prem for that -15% damage bonus. It hon
eman1000 said:
Perhaps I was wrong in thinking drops/no drops was the issue. In general, another serious issue it how quickly you die w/o god armor. Perhaps this will come more into play with the traits plugin, but I now realize the core of the problem could very well be how quickly battles are over. If all players had 3 times as much health, and weapon damage was not increased, battles would be longer and more interesting. Any thoughts on this?
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battles last a very Long time if there are lots of people. I used to set two raid groups, when there were more pvpers around, so during the raid the enemy would have no break to go repot, if anything people don't die enough with all the pots xD. Anyways short battles tend to happen when there is a lack of people who are pvping. Which seems to be the case when I hop on ts once in a while. Nothing you can really do to fix it.
 
@Masterman120 So you disagree that having more premiums is good? There is simple logic behind why it is good. The more premiums, the longer the server can stay up, and the more fun we can all have. I would ask that you either explain yourself more or just remove your rating, since from my current point of view it makes no sense.
 
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