Archived Armor Drop Change

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eman1000

eman1000

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Before all of you flaming naysayers rip me into pieces over my idea, please understand that this is only an idea. I don't necessarily believe it's suitable, but I'm interested to hear constructive feedback.

In a different thread, @Rooseus touched briefly on a serious issue; how utterly stupid PVP is today. It is completely pay to play. A fight is only fair if there is equal risk, which is not the case when armor is not dropped. Here is my idea:

Premiums will keep their armor after death, no matter what material, so long as it is unenchanted.

God armor destroys any chance of non-premium participation, unless the non-premium doesn't mind risking throwing away 750 regals worth of armor, while their opponent risks none of theirs.

(Basically, everything else is me ranting. Feel free to read for entertainment purposes)

Long ago, back in the good 'ol days before god armor, potion spamming, and ridiculous MCMMO boosts, war was great. Some of the older players may remember my brief time as the Emperor of the Serenum Empire, raiding BeeRando daily with dozens or premiums and non-premiums alike. It was balanced, entertaining, and unifying. Nothing in the world matches the feeling of storming up a hillside, two dozen soldiers following closely, with the knowledge that not everyone will survive, yet comfort in the fact that everyone was mortal.

Premiums are immortal. Kill them, they come back with the same armor you tried so hard to pierce. This is not war, my brothers! Do not be satisfied with this calculated and systematic activity once known as PVP!

Comments, questions, opinions, and rants are welcome!
 
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I just have one thing to say you just poked the bear and the bear doesn't like being poked.
 
eman1000, I feel as this should be kept as it is, we pay a monthly price for this feature and taking it away would surely make many people stop buying premium.
Although it is a good idea that there could be a chance of it dropping, it would surely give a bit of life to the market
 
in a way, its the war of the Gods/Immortals; the Immortals lead the war with thr mortals, non premiums, following orders, all of which are dispensable xD
 
I'm sorry, but it all honesty, I wouldn't play on this server if I just joined today. Not a chance. I understand the necessity for incentive, but they're completely taking away any chance of anything resembling equality on the battlefield. Bear in mind, this is all coming from someone who is a premium.
 
Joshy54100 said:
I'd rather have nonprems always drop items, but never drop armor than this. But, it would probably also make less people buy premium.
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I partially like your idea, more non premiums would join fights in god armor, but I think that there should be a chance for them to drop it (maybe only in pvp), since they're non premiums still.
 
this reminds me of Injustice Gods Among Us Mobile....it's pay to win. It's quite unfair the advantage the premiums have against noobs
 
eman1000 said:
Before all of you flaming naysayers rip me into pieces over my idea, please understand that this is only an idea. I don't necessarily believe it's suitable, but I'm interested to hear constructive feedback.

In a different thread, @Rooseus touched briefly on a serious issue; how utterly stupid PVP is today. It is completely pay to play. A fight is only fair if there is equal risk, which is not the case when armor is not dropped. Here is my idea:

Premiums will keep their armor after death, no matter what material, so long as it is unenchanted.

God armor destroys any chance of non-premium participation, unless the non-premium doesn't mind risking throwing away 750 regals worth of armor, while their opponent risks none of theirs.

(Basically, everything else is me ranting. Feel free to read for entertainment purposes)

Long ago, back in the good 'ol days before god armor, potion spamming, and ridiculous MCMMO boosts, war was great. Some of the older players may remember my brief time as the Emperor of the Serenum Empire, raiding BeeRando daily with dozens or premiums and non-premiums alike. It was balanced, entertaining, and unifying. Nothing in the world matches the feeling of storming up a hillside, two dozen soldiers following closely, with the knowledge that not everyone will survive, yet comfort in the fact that everyone was mortal.

Premiums are immortal. Kill them, they come back with the same armor you tried so hard to pierce. This is not war, my brothers! Do not be satisfied with this calculated and systematic activity once known as PVP!

Comments, questions, opinions, and rants are welcome!
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I encourage this, the people who disagree are mostly the ones who don't have much or too much, there is no equality.
 
You make it seem like premiums are just god-like entities with unfair advantages. But they are premiums. They donated to the server from their own money, and in turn got in-game rewards. I believe premiums deserve every one of the advantages and perks that are given to them as a reward. One idea that could give non-prems a chance is for backpacks to be used by all. It could give non-prems a way of storing useful items without the fear of them being lost, just to even the playing field a bit.
 
What about maybe having decreased armor durability? It would make it so premiums are less inclined to return immediately to the battlefield and would stead have to switch out to a new set of armor. Sure premiums would be able to still get armor from nonprems and nonprems wouldn't be able to get armor from killing prems, but it would help somewhat to remove premiums being able to harass nonprems because they normally could just return if killed. (This is coming from a Premium)
 
I would like to see what it would do to the economy if god armor would be dropped on death, will it become cheaper because players obtain it more easily, or will prices rise because of a larger demand. Might get some money flowing ;)
 
Even though I will probably get a lot of hate for this I feel like I should voice my opinion(s).
I will summerize them so you don't get bored reading them.
Keep premium as it is but do one of the following:

1.
I feel like the enchants: Power, Sharpness, Infinity and Protection should be made unequipable in the medieval universe but made available in a seperate PvP world or Arena (Possibly with a ranking system?). This will make for more large scale wars where a single player won't survive 100 hits or look like a retarded glowing porcupine. However to implement this in the best way possible I recommend capping Armor damage (Axes) and adding a cooldown on Splash Heals.

2.
Making it possible for enchantments to run out of charge (much like skyrim). Stronger enchant = Less uses before running out of charge. The enchantment will stay on the item but will stay inactive until recharge.
This option is A LOT more work with coding etc. and most likely not do-able.
 
Another possibility is if you drop your armour if you are in battle (not passive), along with your items.

Creating an all or nothing situation.
Passive-Drop nothing
In battle-Drop everything

Therefore premiums would pay for passivity, and at least have the chance to drop nothing if they chose not to fight back.

Just an idea.
 
Benefits of this.

* There will be larger scale battles.
* More factions would surrender due to the loss of the war.
* People would be cautious and raid with tactics.
* Server would grow more quickly since you can join the fight as a new member.
* Real empires would be shaped.
* There would be more rp aspects within the pvp.
 
As someone who was actually around during the Serenum v/s BeeRando period, I can tell you that PvP was great for the following reason: Premium didn't drop ANYTHING. Not weapons, not armor, not food, not a thing. Factions didn't lose power back then either, so you could die and die and die and die and never suffer for it except armor damage, which wasn't too bad because no one had the massive axe skills of today.

Rooseus said:
Benefits of this.

  1. * There will be larger scale battles.
  2. * More factions would surrender due to the loss of the war.
  3. * People would be cautious and raid with tactics.
  4. * Server would grow more quickly since you can join the fight as a new member.
  5. * Real empires would be shaped.
  6. * There would be more rp aspects within the pvp.
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This is in explanation of my disagree rating:
  1. Why? By your argument people avoid PvP because they drop stuff - so wouldn't everyone avoid PvP because they all drop stuff now?
  2. Lolno. 95% of factions just hide and wait out the raids/wars, like Okyno did when Raptum attacked. No change in tactics, just fewer raids because people would drop stuff if they, say, got stuck in a trap.
  3. People use tactics to raid now. Tactics aren't always "ok, you go left, I go right, tanker here goes center". Tactics can be "swarm them!" too.
  4. You *can* fight instantly upon joining. You just can't fight WELL the moment you join. Premium won't bridge the gap between a new player and Gridiron you know.
  5. "Real" empires never existed. You think otherwise? Ha! People who didn't want to join an empire hid and waited them out. That will happen today just like it did back then.
  6. PvP is NOT roleplay. I see no reason why it should become Roleplay on a server that is supposed to cater towards ALL players and game-styles.
 
Also want to say that I think people are getting MCmmo Stats mixed up with Premium. Premium members tend to be the people willing to put LOTS of time into the server. Thus, they have better stats than people who just started. I think this is more of a disbalance between the older, more dedicated players and the newer, less dedicated players rather than a dissonance between Premium and Non-Premium players.
 
Normally I disagree with Mecharic but on this occasion I'm 100% with him. If you're dedicated to the server and pvp it is also not too hard to get premium with in game money.
 
Mecharic said:
Also want to say that I think people are getting MCmmo Stats mixed up with Premium. Premium members tend to be the people willing to put LOTS of time into the server. Thus, they have better stats than people who just started. I think this is more of a disbalance between the older, more dedicated players and the newer, less dedicated players rather than a dissonance between Premium and Non-Premium players.
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1. They only avoid it becouse the enemy wear god armor which technically gives them no chance. Instead everybody would be wearing less valuble items which allows everyone to participate creating greater battles.

2. I'm pretty sure more people would surrender and it has been proven beofore that if the war drain you of items you will more likelly surrender. Right now they don't even have to hide becouse even if they are killed they mysteriously take them with them into death.

3. Yes, and that's pretty much the only tactic that exist right now ; "Swarm them!" Or rather; "You, immortal guy, kill everyone!".

4. Atleast you can participate within the raid and gain interest in it instead of being told; "You, you're not prem and have low skills so you can't come sry".

5. The old Algaron Empire forced many factions to join em, we even forced them to join back when they left us simply by raiding them.

6. Pvp or "battles" as i rather call it can indeed by based upon rp, imagine a great dozin soldiers which you give proper commands to. Soldiers which stand in proper position. I've seen all this being done by the great eman1000 himself, in serenum he led a battalion of 12 archers, he managed to make them fire the same time and made it rain over pitty XVW.
 
Rooseus said:
1. They only avoid it becouse the enemy wear god armor which technically gives them no chance. Instead everybody would be wearing less valuble items which allows everyone to participate creating greater battles.

2. I'm pretty sure more people would surrender and it has been proven beofore that if the war drain you of items you will more likelly surrender. Right now they don't even have to hide becouse even if they are killed they mysteriously take them with them into death.

3. Yes, and that's pretty much the only tactic that exist right now ; "Swarm them!" Or rather; "You, immortal guy, kill everyone!".

4. Atleast you can participate within the raid and gain interest in it instead of being told; "You, you're not prem and have low skills so you can't come sry".

5. The old Algaron Empire forced many factions to join em, we even forced them to join back when they left us simply by raiding them.

6. Pvp or "battles" as i rather call it can indeed by based upon rp, imagine a great dozin soldiers which you give proper commands to. Soldiers which stand in proper position. I've seen all this being done by the great eman1000 himself, in serenum he led a battalion of 12 archers, he managed to make them fire the same time and made it rain over pitty XVW.
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1. Not really, top pvpers will still wear Godarmour since they can afford and therefor people will have the same problem as before. Also people in plain diaarmour will still die to people with an axe skill over 1000 using skullsplit. That means people who didn´t pvp before won´t do now, it only encourages people to run in "naked" and try to get some loot from dying fighters.

2. Why should you surrender if you can make traps that get you loads of free loot ? Everyone likes free gear.

3. People won´t start to use tactic all of the sudden, but instead they will use traps. Or they will build bunkers with cannons or archers in them.

4. Again this is not an issues that is related to premium but to mcMMO.

5. Why would empires be shaped if people loose armour on death ?

6. I fail to see why that would encourage Rp wars ? If you want an rp war there is nothing that stops you from starting one but it is not a pvp war after all.
 
You quoted the wrong post, but ok... xD
Rooseus said:
1. They only avoid it becouse the enemy wear god armor which technically gives them no chance. Instead everybody would be wearing less valuble items which allows everyone to participate creating greater battles.
2. I'm pretty sure more people would surrender and it has been proven beofore that if the war drain you of items you will more likelly surrender. Right now they don't even have to hide becouse even if they are killed they mysteriously take them with them into death.
3. Yes, and that's pretty much the only tactic that exist right now ; "Swarm them!" Or rather; "You, immortal guy, kill everyone!".
4. Atleast you can participate within the raid and gain interest in it instead of being told; "You, you're not prem and have low skills so you can't come sry".
5. The old Algaron Empire forced many factions to join em, we even forced them to join back when they left us simply by raiding them.
6. Pvp or "battles" as i rather call it can indeed by based upon rp, imagine a great dozin soldiers which you give proper commands to. Soldiers which stand in proper position. I've seen all this being done by the great eman1000 himself, in serenum he led a battalion of 12 archers, he managed to make them fire the same time and made it rain over pitty XVW.
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  1. You misunderstand - the reason people avoid combat isn't because the other guy is better but rather because they don't want to lose their stuff. I'll happily pvp with anyone if they agree to give me back my items, but I will never enter combat with Kapry or someone else who I know won't return my items.
  2. I'm pretty sure you haven't been in a war recently. My faction, Okyno, was raided by Raptum. We didn't surrender even though we lost quite a bit - the reason? Because we had no reason to surrender. We replaced the lost items rather quickly because we have the resources to do so. Most major pvp factions have resources to replace anything they lose, so losing items isn't an issue for them.
  3. When was the last time you PvP'd? From what I've seen (and I've seen a lot) both the raiders and the raided have strategies to it - they may start out with "Swarm them" but as the more skilled warriors show up "swarm them" is no longer able to do it so they need to use pots, gapples, and other items/tools/methods in order to win. Premium doesn't cut it.
  4. Actually I say "You, you suck at PvP and only get killed, stay inside. I don't give a f*ck if you won't lose stuff, we still lose faction power you dolt!" Again, Premium doesn't decide it, just influences it. And premium is DESIGNED to influence gameplay.
  5. Really? Well, good for you. That was then, this is now. I don't think changing gameplay now will make people revert back to their old ways.
  6. I didn't mean to say that roleplay and PvP cannot coexist - only that they should not be FORCED to coexist. Each has their own core methods and styles, and if people want to mix them go ahead. If people don't want to mix them than that should be fine as well.
 
Kellock93 said:
1. Not really, top pvpers will still wear Godarmour since they can afford and therefor people will have the same problem as before. Also people in plain diaarmour will still die to people with an axe skill over 1000 using skullsplit. That means people who didn´t pvp before won´t do now, it only encourages people to run in "naked" and try to get some loot from dying fighters.

2. Why should you surrender if you can make traps that get you loads of free loot ? Everyone likes free gear.

3. People won´t start to use tactic all of the sudden, but instead they will use traps. Or they will build bunkers with cannons or archers in them.

4. Again this is not an issues that is related to premium but to mcMMO.

5. Why would empires be shaped if people loose armour on death ?

6. I fail to see why that would encourage Rp wars ? If you want an rp war there is nothing that stops you from starting one but it is not a pvp war after all.
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1. Sure the god armor would still exist but decrease in a large number.

2. Surrenders did occur more ofter before, when as many weren't premiums. And that's becouse you did drop armor on death, and you had to stay inside and hide always sinnce if u died when ambushed you lost your stuff.

3. I see no problems with this, it just makes people more cautious and everything more intresting.

4. That's exactly what the issue is. the god armors is exacltly what preventing new players to pvp.

5. Becouse people would surrender and agree to the terms.

6. I want pvp wars with rp aspects, that's what i want.
 
Rooseus said:
1. Sure the god armor would still exist but decrease in a large number.

2. Surrenders did occur more ofter before, when as many weren't premiums. And that's becouse you did drop armor on death, and you had to stay inside and hide always sinnce if u died when ambushed you lost your stuff.

3. I see no problems with this, it just makes people more cautious and everything more intresting.

4. That's exactly what the issue is. the god armors is exacltly what preventing new players to pvp.

5. Becouse people would surrender and agree to the terms.

6. I want pvp wars with rp aspects, that's what i want.
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1. Aye I think so too, but the issue would be then that people with 20 sets of god armour still would use em, but the avarage player with only 1 or 2 would be too afraid and be an even easier traget to kill.

2. You have a point there, it would encourage suprise raids that only pick off 1 or 2 people to get their stuff and retreat afterwards but that would also lead to way more raids than we have now. I am not sure if that is something we should go for especially because big faction would be a way more worthy target with that tactic and would be raided about 5-10 per day.

3. Aye in theory it is not bad but over time it could turn into people only build inaccessible bases to prevent these kinds of surprise raids.

4. No it is actually not, while it makes sense that people don´t want to fight against god armour in plain dia armour they would still loose against a pvper that uses plain dia armour too since they usually have higher mcMMo stats that increases their dmg output extremly.

5. I am not sure they will more likely go back to build inacessible bases with traps and just wait the enemys out. People have way to much pride to surrender and the most factions have more nonprems than prems after all anyway.

6. Sounds good, but because of the difference in powerlevel and differnce in gear I doubt that will happen.
 
Mecharic said:
You quoted the wrong post, but ok... xD

  1. You misunderstand - the reason people avoid combat isn't because the other guy is better but rather because they don't want to lose their stuff. I'll happily pvp with anyone if they agree to give me back my items, but I will never enter combat with Kapry or someone else who I know won't return my items.
  2. I'm pretty sure you haven't been in a war recently. My faction, Okyno, was raided by Raptum. We didn't surrender even though we lost quite a bit - the reason? Because we had no reason to surrender. We replaced the lost items rather quickly because we have the resources to do so. Most major pvp factions have resources to replace anything they lose, so losing items isn't an issue for them.
  3. When was the last time you PvP'd? From what I've seen (and I've seen a lot) both the raiders and the raided have strategies to it - they may start out with "Swarm them" but as the more skilled warriors show up "swarm them" is no longer able to do it so they need to use pots, gapples, and other items/tools/methods in order to win. Premium doesn't cut it.
  4. Actually I say "You, you suck at PvP and only get killed, stay inside. I don't give a f*ck if you won't lose stuff, we still lose faction power you dolt!" Again, Premium doesn't decide it, just influences it. And premium is DESIGNED to influence gameplay.
  5. Really? Well, good for you. That was then, this is now. I don't think changing gameplay now will make people revert back to their old ways.
  6. I didn't mean to say that roleplay and PvP cannot coexist - only that they should not be FORCED to coexist. Each has their own core methods and styles, and if people want to mix them go ahead. If people don't want to mix them than that should be fine as well.
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1. That's it, i want to decrease the amount of valuable items people wear within raids so that more people can participate.

2. You had no reason to surrender since even if you were killed, you lost nothing. You could walk around freely, without premium you woulden't have. I'm pretty sure your non prems diden't just walk around out in the open air.

3. Sure, but that's no the kind of strategies i'm talking about.

4. It sure is, but not to limit

5. I'm pretty sure it will bring back some aspects.

6. Differen't styles of pvp can't coexists, not in the same world. It just woulden't work.

Getting tired, think i argumented enough for today. Goodnight.
 
Premiums do not run around in the open air just because they know they won't lose stuff. I see no premiums just randomly walking around during a raid.
 
Rooseus said:
1. That's it, i want to decrease the amount of valuable items people wear within raids so that more people can participate.
2. You had no reason to surrender since even if you were killed, you lost nothing. You could walk around freely, without premium you woulden't have. I'm pretty sure your non prems diden't just walk around out in the open air.
3. Sure, but that's no the kind of strategies i'm talking about.
4. It sure is, but not to limit
5. I'm pretty sure it will bring back some aspects.
6. Differen't styles of pvp can't coexists, not in the same world. It just woulden't work.
Getting tired, think i argumented enough for today. Goodnight.
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  1. But how the hell does less value armor = more participation? The same people that PvP now will PvP if they drop armor, indeed, even less people will PvP if they drop armor. It doesn't solve the problem, only expands it.
  2. I have NEVER seen someone walk around during a raid without being full out god-apple hardcore pvper with an axe and a load of potions. Basically the soldiers.
  3. But it is the kind of strategies that will happen.
  4. They would still lose. A lot. Equal the playing field armor wise and MCmmo still gives them a major advantage.
  5. No it won't. I'd rather hide than surrender to people who raid me.
  6. Than why are you still arguing that point?
 
The only way Rooseus's ideas make sense for having people drop armor is if they remove all enchantments that have to do with PvP (For armor, swords, bows, everything) Then that would increase the diamond price a lot.

But a ginormous nerf for axes would be needed, but when you think about it, that wouldn't matter as long as they got the nerf to be proportional to the axes vs god armor of the past.
 
Remember that premiums are the ones who fund the server, and to be perfectly honest with you, I think its unfair as just damn that premiums get privilege to the near pay-2-win level, but why would people support the server if they don't get anything for it? Just look at voting for example, nobody voted before the rewards were introduced, same with premium.

Premium players need to be more powerful than normal players so they will have a reason to support the server by buying premium, if premiums couldn't wear god armor, they would barely be more powerful than normal players anymore. I didn't buy premium because I like the server, I bought it because I wanted the McMMO bonus, the backpack and /fix

Although, I can agree that PvP would (probably) be more fun if we regressed to plain diamond armor, but that shouldn't be an issue just for the premiums.
 
This is just plain stupid, We The premiums are donaters, Basically, We deserve the Advanatges in pvp and pve that massivecraft provides, Thats why i buy premium So i don't lose my stuff in pvp if we get that taken away, There would be no real point ot buy premium anymore, So i must Disagree
 
This is just plain stupid, We The premiums are donaters, Basically, We deserve the Advanatges in pvp and pve that massivecraft provides, Thats why i buy premium So i don't lose my stuff in pvp if we get that taken away, There would be no real point ot buy premium anymore, So i must Disagree
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As hobbs so eloquently put it, premiums deserve the advantages that are given to them. While some of the perks may very well make them invincible to the average newbie, whats the point of even donating if a normal player stands a legitimate chance against someone who's given their own money to help the server? A point brought up by many people arguing on the side of premium nerfing is that its a pay-to-win situation. When in reality, the person who donated cares about the server enough to give some of their own money to keep it up and running. It's only fair that they get in-game rewards.
 
As good as this is for non donators and such, it would stop a lot of people from paying for it (me being one of them) this could leave to the server not gaining the money need to pay for it and keep it going. Maybe if they add some thing else on the donators it would be more fair but just remove one thing from donators then not add a new one. (I mean a big one! not some small garbage) Some thing PvP like please. such as a 25% more attack and def.
 
I'm giving up, people on this server are to stubborn to realize the improvements this could provide. We that been here for a while have experienced the better side if pvp, we know that this premium feature only destroys just about everything. But have it as you'd like, I won't bother anymore. Just remember this, massivecraft is heading in the complete wrong direction. ^^
 
Aidan said:
As good as this is for non donators and such, it would stop a lot of people from paying for it (me being one of them) this could leave to the server not gaining the money need to pay for it and keep it going. Maybe if they add some thing else on the donators it would be more fair but just remove one thing from donators then not add a new one. (I mean a big one! not some small garbage) Some thing PvP like please. such as a 25% more attack and def.
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Like Aidan just mentioned, add something to replace it. I haven't seen any other reasons to keep it other than selfish gain or donations for the server.
 
Mecharic said:
  1. But how the hell does less value armor = more participation? The same people that PvP now will PvP if they drop armor, indeed, even less people will PvP if they drop armor. It doesn't solve the problem, only expands it.
  2. I have NEVER seen someone walk around during a raid without being full out god-apple hardcore pvper with an axe and a load of potions. Basically the soldiers.
  3. But it is the kind of strategies that will happen.
  4. They would still lose. A lot. Equal the playing field armor wise and MCmmo still gives them a major advantage.
  5. No it won't. I'd rather hide than surrender to people who raid me.
  6. Than why are you still arguing that point?
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Not sure what you did back in the old days mecharic, but all of what has been stated by me has already been proven right here on massivecraft. Back when there wasen't as many premiums, pvp worked perfectly.

Also, not surrendering to the raiders when loosing are and has always been Childish and stupid. Makes wars completly pointless.
 
Rooseus said:
Not sure what you did back in the old days mecharic, but all of what has been stated by me has already been proven right here on massivecraft. Back when there wasen't as many premiums, pvp worked perfectly.

Also, not surrendering to the raiders when loosing are and has always been Childish and stupid. Makes wars completly pointless.
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But more premiums is a good thing.
 
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