Archived And End? To Griefing? Is That Even Possible?

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Eucindiel

Eucindiel

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OK... a particular grief got my attention, got me thinking and provided me with a solution that I think will make the entire server leaps and bounds more harmonious and lead to much less work for the admins.

This sort of grief wouldn't normally be considered griefing but watch the WHOLE video below before you make ANY assumptions.

Don't discount it after the 30 seconds because you think you've seen it - the admin following me last night made the same mistake... by the end of the journey he was saying "this is f@*cking ridiculous please post this on the forums, something has to be done about this"… you won't fully understand the scale of it until you've seen it all - trust me:
STILL READING! Have you watched the WHOLE movie yet? Why are you reading on? For Christ's sake go back and watch the WHOLE thing trust me.

Finished? Good.

BTW - Locations are in the Hawkeye info shown during a second MUCH LONGER video if you're interested (don't bother if you don't wanna sit through 9 mins)…. link here:

OK… Now the solution:

Imagine: This guy has managed to do ALL of this in a couple of hours across a couple of days? He said he was "just levelling up". Imagine what he could do in months… In fact this player has been around for over a year - it is entirely possible that HE is solely personally responsible for at least one of the maps being decommissioned all by himself. I personally think he should be forced to repair every single bloody bit of it until he has learned his lesson… but I digress.

This simple act has much deeper implications right through to the core of server policy and brings us an opportunity to make some tough decisions about its longevity. I know Cay and the team have made excellent changes along the way to try to minimise this issue:

- Newer maps have a restore function
- Regalia is totally non-editable
- Wilderness is a fair walk away

THE ANSWER:

You are right in thinking Noobs will ALWAYS get on, run around for an hour, chop the trees, cobble tower up the hillsides and then disappear never to return. This is why having the first landing world (Regalia) as non editable is so clever (a master stroke Cay) because the REALLY stupid Noobs (the ones who coincidentally do the most damage) leave before they even realise there is more than one world - that is a good thing - a sort of "loser filter".

But there are two simple steps missing:


[EDIT: Here is a draft proposal diagram that, with your feedback, we can evolve into a workable solution - e.g. "one boat" at Regalia dock would look pretty weird - working on it (with your help)]

Diagram.jpg

STEP 1 - we have this already - Arrive in Regalia - non-editable

STEP 2 - WE NEED THIS - a buffer world (lets call it Anarcadia) between Regalia and the other worlds. Only one boat out of Regalia - Anarcadia is where it goes to:
  • Spawn point in the heart of the island with signs saying "dig and grief to your hearts content you fools".
  • Massive wilderness with EVERYTHING anyone might want to dig/chop/mine etc (sand, clay, emerald... you name it).
  • A Port town with boats to the other worlds just a short walk from spawn (on the south shore).
  • This map gets reset every 3 months - signs at spawn are clear on this and it is a regular server broadcast and listed on the massive website.
  • Yes, Noobs will still build there but they can't say they weren't warned.
STEP 3 - WE NEED THIS - a few new 'locked' worlds where people have to claim an area to build in it - "claim to edit" if you will (Thanks Mecharic):
  • Fixes the Griefing syndrome - no question.
  • MASSIVE reduction in workload for the Admins (no griefing to clean up).
  • Increased economic activity (factions need to trade to make money so they can claim that land for the road they want to build).
  • Everybody happy.
  • World peace.
  • Victoria Secret girlfriends for everyone.
Yes… Greifers will always grief - no whitelist equals less control over that... but if someone doesn't change the non-sustainable nature of the practices here the server will forever be cursed when premiums get on, build their empires, have their world eventually wiped and leave forever in disgust. Sustainable worlds (among other things) lead to sustainable paying clients for the server - simples.

An attitude exists which is not too far from "oh well - this happens - griefers gonna grief - each world in turn will eventually becomes so griefed that it too will be taken down".

That is Bull-shiatsu!

That is weak lazy thinking.

There is always a better way. It won't happen in a heartbeat - server policy takes years to evolve.

[EDIT: We've paid out on Bling enough now also - lets move on to finding the solution guys]
 
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X0N3333 said:
desmonster you can use tickets to report greifings 0,o.
Also having a limit on building in wilderness would be a nightmare when you want to mine to get diamonds and stuff, everyone would then go to this material land place or to a world without this wilderness limit with all the stuff they need and mine there, which means that the material land place will become SO contested by all of the massivecraft community. Only the people who get there first will be able to get anything, and if they can't get what they want at the material place they will have to go to other worlds without this limit and in the end all world without the limit will be greifed beyond belief. Also if you want to plan ahead and claim something for your faction you can't eg. you built a road in wilderness you have it claimed but with this limited wilderness building thing I have a feeling everyone would just leave worlds that limit it and go to others since they can't build what they want where they want, also hermits would build all their houses in world without the limit meaning more hermit houses in certain worlds.
Overall it seems that there never will be a way to stop greifing in minecraft ever, its a flaw of the game that we just have to accept, we can try to prevent it or punish it but we can't ever completely stop it
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If this were implemented, the "unlocked" worlds would be reset every few months. They wouldn't just make a new world and let it sit there and rot. At least, I hope not.
 
I don't think that making worlds non-editable unless you claim is a bit too much because claiming is hard to do with getting everyone on and then not dying to get your power up. Then what if you want to go mining underground and you have to stay in your tiny little claimed land. Even the biggest factions don't have enough room to really go mining underneath them and they would quickly run out of resources and go all the way to another world just to mine. Also the admins would have to make a new world every time they reset this new world, because people would remember where the resources are and go back to the same place every time. But I agree with the rest.
 
What if people could claim 1 chunk in their name alone? They could build/edit in that chunk (and maybe all adjacent chunks?) as they wished but not outside it. Only they could edit that 1 chunk, but no one could claim more than 1 chunk without being part of a faction? And there's a 24 hour cooldown to claiming a different chunk.

This would make it easier to fix wilderness grief (it would already be chunkified) as well as help prevent it by restricting it to 1 chunk.
 
Wow, ruining landscape like this, for just leveling up excavation? That's ridiculous.
So what, if it's Daendroc? In this way Daendroc will be even more ugly.
 
STEP 2 - WE NEED THIS - a buffer world (lets call it Anarcadia) between Regalia and the other worlds. Only one boat out of Regalia - Anarcadia is where it goes to:
  • Spawn point in the heart of the island with signs saying "dig and grief to your hearts content you fools".
  • Massive wilderness with EVERYTHING anyone might want to dig/chop/mine etc (sand, clay, emerald... you name it).
  • A Port town with boats to the other worlds just a short walk from spawn (on the south shore).
  • This map gets reset every 3 months - signs at spawn are clear on this and it is a regular server broadcast and listed on the massive website.
  • Yes, Noobs will still build there but they can't say they weren't warned.
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I suggested building a world like Anarcadia two times soo far on this forum. And I agree with the concept. Go and destroy as much as you want... go and take the fuckin dirt just dont go and destroy worlds that matter.

My idea was to make small nameless island (Like Kelmoria) that have sole purpose of being exploited to the max.

When I take a better look at this you wrote down suggestions I was thinking of... :)

STEP 3 - WE NEED THIS - 'lock' each and every other world and people have to claim an area to build in it:
  • Fixes the xXBlingXx syndrome - no question.
  • MASSIVE reduction in workload for the Admins (no griefing to clean up).
  • Increased economic activity (factions need to trade to make money so they can claim that land for the road they want to build).
  • Everybody happy.
  • World peace.
  • Victoria Secret girlfriends for everyone.
[EDIT - OK so maybe a few 'inner ring' unlocked wilderness worlds and a few 'outer rim' worlds 'locked' but areas can be released by claiming a faction area]
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You see thats the problem... I have an underground treasure room in south Ithania and I love the fact that is unclaimed... because its meant to be secret. If I claim it it stops being secret.
And I dont have money for it.

Sum it all up....

STEP 2. support, STEP 3. not so much but still a good idea
 
I support the idea of one more restricted world with only faction claimed building rights.

Relaying on chunk restoration can be very difficult, as it's almost impossible for admin to know if someone built an underground base in the chunk.

I also think we should request a new setting for mcmmo.
Restrict excavation to level.
Then it would be possible to restrict the excavation to mining levels only and save the Surface.
 
Building flying structures is against the rules, right? With his griefing he "built flying trees and dirt structures". Is this ban able? :P

On the last medieval rpg fantasy thing server I played on there were heavy rules. Half cut tree --> ban (or sometimes just a warning). Griefed nature --> ban. This is why the world looked so beautiful, and also why they had to shut down the server because of a lack of players.

Easier way to level up Excavation:

Step 1: Go to Fandarfell
Step 2: Dig straight down until you find dirt or gravel.
Step 3: Destroy those blocks and skill Excavation. Fandarfell has no caves like the other worlds, they are all filled with dirt and gravel. When you skill excavation, you can also find iron, diamond and other ores while doing this, and nobody will give a sh*t about griefed nature.
 
A nice little system I saw was a "resource world" where players would go to mine things, and had a different world where factions were the only places capable of setting build perms, which seemed like a brilliant idea to me.

We could have a few of the "locked" maps such as what we have now, where factions can build, and then have our "resource map".

It's a nice, constructive idea, and I thank you for posting it sir.
 
When I ever practice my MCMMO excavation I work underground where no one will see the damage. For instance gravel pits, snow, dirt, ect.
 
One small edit to this suggestion. There could be noobs who come and go past Anarcadia and grief worlds like Danedroc. So as a solution we could implement warps. Like /warp ellador, would take you to ellador. It could make it so that noobs wouldn't grief worlds that we love unless they some how figured out the /warp command could take them to worlds that weren't ugly.
 
I was called out to the scene, and at first I was just like 'Oh well, it's just someone grinding their excavation' but as I went along that thought soon turned into 'Right, this is just -insert swear word here- ridiculous.' Because it is, this really is unacceptable:
  • The land was still in use although it did not have a claim.
  • The digging was not neat, it was just all over the place. It looked like a meteor had struck the area.
  • And there was not a single effort made to attempt to fix it up.
Desmonster told me that he spent months restoring that land, and for what? Just so some MCMMO hungry person wielding a diamond shovel may come and wreck months of work.

If you want to grind excavation you may go to one of the new worlds, with the regeneration feature. Dig up nicely in chunks and then create a ticket for a Rank 3 member to come regenerate it for you. A lot of people do this, so I don't see why you need to tear up Daendroc.
 
Hiu403 said:
One small edit to this suggestion. There could be noobs who come and go past Anarcadia and grief worlds like Danedroc. So as a solution we could implement warps. Like /warp ellador, would take you to ellador. It could make it so that noobs wouldn't grief worlds that we love unless they some how figured out the /warp command could take them to worlds that weren't ugly.
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But even though ships in a sense make you warp as well, it's still roleplay in a way. Just warping to another continent doesn't make sense. And BTW, his idea was to make worlds other than the griefable world locked, so you'd have to have a faction to claim it. But in my mind, I think the staff should be paying better attention to grief. I know they're busy and all, but grief is barely even mentioned, and hardly any people are banned for wilderness grief. The only grief the staff really handle is when people grief structures that people are using, when meanwhile, walk a few blocks out of the New Cearida spawn, and you'll see plenty of wilderness grief that never gets fixed, or even looked into. Same with the other continents.
 
๖ۣۜI am quite disappointed in how a lot of the power hungry don't bother about the beauty of a server. I have seen plenty of noobs rush off into the docks just so they can begin their valiant quest, or look forward to living in a large castle, and it is not inspiring at all when all the land is as revealed as xXBlingXx's skin as a man in a small, green bathing suit. I don't know about you, but when I go off to grind some land off the floor, I don't just dig up entire chunks. Of all things, I actually go around and pick off what appears to be out of place. I dig in curves around mountains, I gently scrape a layer off valleys, trying to be sure to cover all the stone up, and I place logs under the trees that I want to appear to have pure growth out of the fertility of the landscape. I might not have an extremely high mining or excavation, but I am willing to take my time to actually make sure everything is
fabulous.jpg
 
It's sh*t like this that speeds up world removal dates...

And for those of you who are saying that this is necessary if you want to level up your excavation skill, you're wrong. Say you want to build a building, but need to flatten some land, that'll level it up. Maybe you'd like to dig a pit, for whatever reason. That'll level it up. You can also go underground and find the gravel and dirt deposits to dig out. There's no reason to frollock across the world and start tearing up the terrain every where you go.
 
Just a note: Excavation should NOT be removed. Its a great feature and to get it to a high enough level to get diamonds takes a large amount of time.

I agree that worlds do look a bit bad after mass digging, but there HAS to be a way to not grief a world without having to not train excavation.

Maybe a world which is designed espeially for diggers? Like a world that is mostly dirt and sand and resets every couple of weeks?
 
Have you ever seen the noobs who make some iron armor in the wilderness, then immediately try to rampage through Regalia, trying to attack everyone they see?

As funny as it is to watch them stumble around looking confused, once they realize they can't go around trolling and murdering, they get off the server for good. The thing that they lack is patience, they have an appetite for destroying everything good, and if they can't destroy it that very moment, they'll find something else. Which is why I propose no building or mining perms for the first day or hour someone is on the server. It won't stop much grief, but it will deter the noobs and encourage people to find a faction in the "you can't do anything" buffer period.
 
WhiteApache said:
Have you ever seen the noobs who make some iron armor in the wilderness, then immediately try to rampage through Regalia, trying to attack everyone they see?

As funny as it is to watch them stumble around looking confused, once they realize they can't go around trolling and murdering, they get off the server for good. The thing that they lack is patience, they have an appetite for destroying everything good, and if they can't destroy it that very moment, they'll find something else. Which is why I propose no building or mining perms for the first day or two someone is on the sever. It won't stop much grief, but it will deter the noobs and encourage people to find a faction in the "you can't do anything" buffer period.
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This is a good idea, but it might decrease the server population. If it can make griefers want to leave, it can make people who don't grief want to leave, too. But still, that could work.
 
I see nothing wrong with what Bling is doing. He is training his skills NOT griefing the world. Daendroc is the most destroyed world on the server, which will probably be removed soon. There is no point in fixing a wrecked world IMO.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
I see nothing wrong with what Bling is doing. He is training his skills NOT griefing the world. Daendroc is the most destroyed world on the server, which will probably be removed soon. There is no point in fixing a wrecked world IMO.
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We understand that he was leveling, and we understand that it's important to the server, but griefing is griefing even if it is an old world.

There are plenty of large pockets of dirt below surface level which are prime for destroying, but no one ever does.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
I see nothing wrong with what Bling is doing. He is training his skills NOT griefing the world. Daendroc is the most destroyed world on the server, which will probably be removed soon. There is no point in fixing a wrecked world IMO.
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No. You're speaking of two completely different things. You can level up your skills without griefing. Even as an old world, that land was still actively used. Just because Daendroc is the "most destroyed world" doesn't mean players don't use it anymore. That's not even a valid argument. What he did was wrong and it's as simple as that.
 
I remember posting a very similar idea some time ago in a topic about ways to stop or prevent grief. I believed it needed a topic of its own, but I never really found time for it. I would like to thank you desmonster for giving it its own topic. Something I should probably have done a long time ago...

But now to the topic.
I believe we indeed do need a resource world. It will be the tool that will help us deal with the unwanted griefing of the worlds we live in. But in order to make sure that this tool works effective and efficient, we need to make sure everyone whos currently present and everyone who is comming to this server is aware of the fact that this world exists. And so there are only two things in my opinion that matter;

Firstly the world itself. It needs to be diverse. It has to contain all the valuals we need to construct all those amazing creations that we are hoping to build. It has to be a vast major world so that even when alot of people come here to collect resources, you still have enough space to hide from raiders and bandits looking for some fresh loot. And finaly, it needs to reset itself after a considerable amount of time. The staff has enough to worry about without us asking them to generate some new resources all the time.

Secondly, we need to introduce the newcomers to this world. explain them the importance of this world as a resource world, and the other worlds as places to build. If there is a world filled with resources that is easily accesable, why even bother Daendroc and any other world. This new world has it all.


We don't want any restrictions. New players still should be able to just head out into the world, build their settlement, and live like always. We just need to make sure that this resource world is known to all, attractive to all and practical for all. (this 'could' include for maiar's) So people use this world and benefit from it, just as the upkeep of the current worlds should benefit.

Anyways that is how I envisioned this idea to have been. Tobad it wasn't discoverd earlier.:( But lets have hope that this makes it trough. :)

ps: Take the topic around xXBlingXx's grief out of this topic. It serves no addition to this topic itself.
 
๖ۣۜAnd now we wait for the 500 tags to spam poor Bling's mailbox... ._.
 
This area surrounds my bookstore (you have to see what he did to the hill next to the store), but when I reported it here's what I got. "Claim the land" Claim all that hideous land? No! It also wastes power for my faction if I do this.
 
desmonster said:
THE ANSWER:
Step 1
Victoria Secret girlfriends for everyone.
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Ehh :) i like this step.
Imboring56 said:
Wow. I used to have respect for him, but now, like everybody else, he sinks to a low level. I would recommend putting this into a ban request as well - I want this asshole out of here.
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He used to be my friend too... until he took the whole ironlegion crew to the land of broken dreams. We had all taken a harsh toll. We all have taken a hit of corruption, that has taken a part of our personalities with it. But i guess some more than others. Moral of my sad story NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAMS. (Massivecraft or not)
 
Emperor_max said:
I remember posting a very similar idea some time ago in a topic about ways to stop or prevent grief. I believed it needed a topic of its own, but I never really found time for it. I would like to thank you desmonster for giving it its own topic. Something I should probably have done a long time ago...

But now to the topic.
I believe we indeed do need a resource world. It will be the tool that will help us deal with the unwanted griefing of the worlds we live in. But in order to make sure that this tool works effective and efficient, we need to make sure everyone whos currently present and everyone who is comming to this server is aware of the fact that this world exists. And so there are only two things in my opinion that matter;

Firstly the world itself. It needs to be diverse. It has to contain all the valuals we need to construct all those amazing creations that we are hoping to build. It has to be a vast major world so that even when alot of people come here to collect resources, you still have enough space to hide from raiders and bandits looking for some fresh loot. And finaly, it needs to reset itself after a considerable amount of time. The staff has enough to worry about without us asking them to generate some new resources all the time.

Secondly, we need to introduce the newcomers to this world. explain them the importance of this world as a resource world, and the other worlds as places to build. If there is a world filled with resources that is easily accesable, why even bother Daendroc and any other world. This new world has it all.


We don't want any restrictions. New players still should be able to just head out into the world, build their settlement, and live like always. We just need to make sure that this resource world is known to all, attractive to all and practical for all. (this 'could' include for maiar's) So people use this world and benefit from it, just as the upkeep of the current worlds should benefit.

Anyways that is how I envisioned this idea to have been. Tobad it wasn't discoverd earlier.:( But lets have hope that this makes it trough. :)

ps: Take the topic around xXBlingXx's grief out of this topic. It serves no addition to this topic itself.
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YES. Agreed 100%.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
I see nothing wrong with what Bling is doing. He is training his skills NOT griefing the world. Daendroc is the most destroyed world on the server, which will probably be removed soon. There is no point in fixing a wrecked world IMO.
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You're silly.
That's almost like saying IRL that we're all gonna die anyway, and we might as well poison ourselves with methane gas to power a single iPod.
Back on topic, I feel at least one of these ideas need to be done, any type of world we need to try and hold onto, It's not simple to just make another server with another world in seconds, the world would be gone for a good solid while, or will be greifed like hell until it's changed, and either way, the world will be removed in time, just please, not soon.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
I see nothing wrong with what Bling is doing. He is training his skills NOT griefing the world. Daendroc is the most destroyed world on the server, which will probably be removed soon. There is no point in fixing a wrecked world IMO.
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This is the basic "it's not near me, therefor not my problem" mindset. No, it isn't near you. But that doesn't mean it doesn't effect you. Daendroc was the first custom world, and a lasting legacy of Wessexstock's awesome world building skills. Yes, it's true that this is an old world, just as true as it is that the world will be removed. But that is no reason to utterly abuse the world. I would rather Daendroc live another year thanks to the effort of the server population than it be deleted because people wanted to level up their MCmmo or just destroy things.

There are still plenty of factions that make Daendroc their primary home. GranJupus, one of my factions, has it's capitol, portal complex, and primary city all in Daendroc. If that city is destroyed because the world gets deleted the people who put so much effort into building it will not be pleased. Some may even leave the server, lowing the population. If noobs come out to see Daendroc and the first thing they see is that horrible, torn up wasteland just outside the town, with stupid ass shops right up on the border of Daenshore's claim and massive bare wastes for as far as their render allows... what will they think of the server? What would YOU think?

The Shadow King said:
This area surrounds my bookstore (you have to see what he did to the hill next to the store), but when I reported it here's what I got. "Claim the land" Claim all that hideous land? No! It also wastes power for my faction if I do this.
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That was actually the reply? That's disappointing.
 
I don't agree so much with step 2 but step 3 i support very much, it would fix a lit of problems and prevent griefing.

Supported.
 
Mecharic said:
-with stupid ass shops right up on the border of Daenshore's claim-
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How DARE you call my bookstore"stupid asshole"! What is wrong with it may I ask?! It's a nice, lore compliant building that sells good books for good prices!
 
[quote="Mecharic, post: 147082, member: 53"


That was actually the reply? That's disappointing.[/quote]
And why is this disappointing?
 
The Shadow King said:
How DARE you call my bookstore"stupid asshole"! What is wrong with it may I ask?! It's a nice, lore compliant building that sells good books for good prices!
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Not ur shop lol. The ones that are chests and signs with a cobble wall behind them. They are LITERALLY the first 3 blocks at the end of the gravel road there.
 
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