Archived And End? To Griefing? Is That Even Possible?

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Eucindiel

Eucindiel

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OK... a particular grief got my attention, got me thinking and provided me with a solution that I think will make the entire server leaps and bounds more harmonious and lead to much less work for the admins.

This sort of grief wouldn't normally be considered griefing but watch the WHOLE video below before you make ANY assumptions.

Don't discount it after the 30 seconds because you think you've seen it - the admin following me last night made the same mistake... by the end of the journey he was saying "this is f@*cking ridiculous please post this on the forums, something has to be done about this"… you won't fully understand the scale of it until you've seen it all - trust me:
STILL READING! Have you watched the WHOLE movie yet? Why are you reading on? For Christ's sake go back and watch the WHOLE thing trust me.

Finished? Good.

BTW - Locations are in the Hawkeye info shown during a second MUCH LONGER video if you're interested (don't bother if you don't wanna sit through 9 mins)…. link here:

OK… Now the solution:

Imagine: This guy has managed to do ALL of this in a couple of hours across a couple of days? He said he was "just levelling up". Imagine what he could do in months… In fact this player has been around for over a year - it is entirely possible that HE is solely personally responsible for at least one of the maps being decommissioned all by himself. I personally think he should be forced to repair every single bloody bit of it until he has learned his lesson… but I digress.

This simple act has much deeper implications right through to the core of server policy and brings us an opportunity to make some tough decisions about its longevity. I know Cay and the team have made excellent changes along the way to try to minimise this issue:

- Newer maps have a restore function
- Regalia is totally non-editable
- Wilderness is a fair walk away

THE ANSWER:

You are right in thinking Noobs will ALWAYS get on, run around for an hour, chop the trees, cobble tower up the hillsides and then disappear never to return. This is why having the first landing world (Regalia) as non editable is so clever (a master stroke Cay) because the REALLY stupid Noobs (the ones who coincidentally do the most damage) leave before they even realise there is more than one world - that is a good thing - a sort of "loser filter".

But there are two simple steps missing:


[EDIT: Here is a draft proposal diagram that, with your feedback, we can evolve into a workable solution - e.g. "one boat" at Regalia dock would look pretty weird - working on it (with your help)]

Diagram.jpg

STEP 1 - we have this already - Arrive in Regalia - non-editable

STEP 2 - WE NEED THIS - a buffer world (lets call it Anarcadia) between Regalia and the other worlds. Only one boat out of Regalia - Anarcadia is where it goes to:
  • Spawn point in the heart of the island with signs saying "dig and grief to your hearts content you fools".
  • Massive wilderness with EVERYTHING anyone might want to dig/chop/mine etc (sand, clay, emerald... you name it).
  • A Port town with boats to the other worlds just a short walk from spawn (on the south shore).
  • This map gets reset every 3 months - signs at spawn are clear on this and it is a regular server broadcast and listed on the massive website.
  • Yes, Noobs will still build there but they can't say they weren't warned.
STEP 3 - WE NEED THIS - a few new 'locked' worlds where people have to claim an area to build in it - "claim to edit" if you will (Thanks Mecharic):
  • Fixes the Griefing syndrome - no question.
  • MASSIVE reduction in workload for the Admins (no griefing to clean up).
  • Increased economic activity (factions need to trade to make money so they can claim that land for the road they want to build).
  • Everybody happy.
  • World peace.
  • Victoria Secret girlfriends for everyone.
Yes… Greifers will always grief - no whitelist equals less control over that... but if someone doesn't change the non-sustainable nature of the practices here the server will forever be cursed when premiums get on, build their empires, have their world eventually wiped and leave forever in disgust. Sustainable worlds (among other things) lead to sustainable paying clients for the server - simples.

An attitude exists which is not too far from "oh well - this happens - griefers gonna grief - each world in turn will eventually becomes so griefed that it too will be taken down".

That is Bull-shiatsu!

That is weak lazy thinking.

There is always a better way. It won't happen in a heartbeat - server policy takes years to evolve.

[EDIT: We've paid out on Bling enough now also - lets move on to finding the solution guys]
 
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Imboring56 said:
Wow. I used to have respect for him, but now, like everybody else, he sinks to a low level. I would recommend putting this into a ban request as well - I want this asshole out of here.
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I don't see any rules about griefing the already completely wrecked daendroc… No moderators have asked him to stop and he has been doing it for quite a while, jumping onto a ban on him would be a bit over board..
 
So basically, you're making a "fake" world? And then they just walk a little bit and get started on the real grief?
 
desmonster said:
STEP 3 - WE NEED THIS - 'lock' each and every other world and people have to claim an area to build in it:
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What about people who do build in wilderness, or don't have enough power to claim everywhere they want to build. This idea is just so flawed and restricting that even though it probably would fix most griefing it is simply not worth it.

Imboring56 said:
He's already been doing this? Damn. That's just not right.
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Its also rather pointless as he could clear land for people to get his skills up and make a bit of silver in the process.
 
Kirbz - read the post again mate - you can't grief in the proposed 'locked' worlds only in "Anarcadia"

Qwertz - perhaps two or three 'open' worlds? I'd like the choice of spending 18 months building a castle in a world that won't get wiped just because "oh well - griefers gonna grief". How about that option? Then you can choose to inhabit an 'open' world but eventually you'll end up just like me - wanting a home that isn't so transient and a waste of effort.

Thor - no admin/mod has called 'open season' on Daendroc - Bling just "assumed" it was OK. Constitutionally in my country at least (God Bless Australia) ignorance is no defence - with the possible exception of youthful ignorance he should have realised his actions might affect someone other than him.
 
desmonster said:
Kirbz - read the post again mate - you can't grief in the proposed 'locked' worlds only in "Anarcadia"

Qwertz - perhaps two or three 'open' worlds? I'd like the choice of spending 18 months building a castle in a world that won't get wiped just because "oh well - griefers gonna grief". How about that option? Then you can choose to inhabit an 'open' world but eventually you'll end up just like me - wanting a home that isn't so transient and a waste of effort.
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In the newer worlds they can restore chunks in wilderness, so not necessary at all anymore.
 
This requires this:

1zfophv.jpg
 
My initial response:
"HOW DARE THAT SON OF A B-"
Super_Sayin.gif

desmonster - I like the idea of Anarcadia. It would be so useful for handling noobs who come on, rip up the world, and then leave forever. However, claim to build is extreme. Maybe in a world specifically for RP and Peaceful Construction, but not for mainline worlds.

xXBlingXx - Care to explain why you couldn't put the dirt back afterwards? lvling up or not, this is embarissing. If you had come to me a few weeks ago I was in deep need of sandstone, you could have made HUNDREDS of silver digging up a desert or three. How this isn't bannable is beyond me.

MonMarty - Is this bannable?
 
desmonster

I was floored. Thank you for putting together this documented evidence that demonstrates really how screwed up the landscapes are, even in the newer worlds.

You have some very interesting solutions, however, I feel that they are a bit round about to the main reason of the griefing of nature in MassiveCraft: a genuine lack of respect for the work that went into the creation of these beautiful worlds. By creating a "buffer world" and creating "locked" faction chunks, we are enabling this griefing behavior and sort of closing off the worlds where the primary intent was for players to enjoy. Step #3 essentially eliminates the "wilderness" aspect of Massive which is what I find so enjoyable.

In the end though, I feel that ultimately Step #2 that you proposed will be necessary. New players are lazy and will venture only as far as they need to in order to reach editable chunks. I believe somewhere on the forums, someone (a mod or admin, perhaps?) mentioned something about a world designated specifically for resource gathering, so I think this will be likely.

Oh. And also:

DISABLE EXCAVATION.
 
Why rely on restore at all Thor?

And end to griefing? It might work.

Work it through with me - I'm trying to find the problem with my idea - don't just discount it because it is change or new - try to imagine if it would work with some worlds 'open' and other outer rim worlds locked except to claiming.
 
Unluvable - two or three 'open' worlds and other outer rim worlds locked except to claiming - that fixes your issue?
 
thor5648 said:
I don't see any rules about griefing the already completely wrecked daendroc… No moderators have asked him to stop and he has been doing it for quite a while, jumping onto a ban on him would be a bit over board..
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Common sense, much? Just because one is getting away with it doesn't mean what they are doing isn't wrong.
 
...and guys - if you don't want to live in one of the new 'locked' outer rim worlds don't go live there - simples yes?
 
Kirby12352 said:
So basically, you're making a "fake" world? And then they just walk a little bit and get started on the real grief?
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That bit on the "locked faction chunks" completely went over your head, huh? Instead of being a smart ass on other people's threads, how about making an attempt to improve your reading comprehension skills?
 
No need to act like I'm stupid people, I missed the claim part. Simmer down.


So when you say claim you mean faction claim? This would help, sure, but a lot of griefers have factions, too. The real question is if this is worth the time to implement this. But good idea, all in all.
 
Thanks Unluvable... appreciate the back-up but let's not start a flame war and let's keep on topic - I suspect I might be onto something here and want to talk it through with people to knock of any rough edges before the Admins catch on.
 
Thanks Kirbz - yes - faction claims. There's no extra time really because the Admins will always want to try out new worlds every few months anyway - let's just make a few of them 'locked outer rim' worlds. In fact it gives the Admins less work because they're fixing less griefs and not having to tear down those worlds that get devastated over time.
 
Unluvable said:
That bit on the "locked faction chunks" completely went over your head, huh? Instead of being a smart ass on other people's threads, how about making an attempt to improve your reading comprehension skills?
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I missed that part. I honestly worry about your mental health if missing something is enough to provoke you to act like that.
 
...and griefers with factions are less likely to grief their own turf if they had to pay 200 silver for it. It won't stop ALL of them but most and that's a good thing.
 
Destruction of terrain is a sad but necessary part of MCMMO Excavation ((And Minecraft for that matter.)) so while I don't condone Bling's actions I do not want a lynch mob running around either.

I will say however that the way he did it was completely unacceptable for a number of reasons.
  1. It was long and done in an extremely sporadic and random pattern.
  2. This was done in Daendroc, which is impossible to restore properly.
  3. He left floating blocks/didn't replace the dirt when he was done with it.
When grinding excavation, it's best to go to a remote location in one of the newer worlds and dig in nice and neat minecraft chunks so that they are easier to restore, or in a way that looks very natural.

Frankly I am quite saddened about the state of Daendroc and this certainly doesn't help.
 
desmonster said:
Qwertz - perhaps two or three 'open' worlds? I'd like the choice of spending 18 months building a castle in a world that won't get wiped just because "oh well - griefers gonna grief". How about that option? Then you can choose to inhabit an 'open' world but eventually you'll end up just like me - wanting a home that isn't so transient and a waste of effort.
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I personally would like to be sure the world I build my faction in will stay around for at least as long as I would want to play minecraft for. However, I think the wilderness thing is really extreme and not needed. It would just limit so much of the freedom of minecraft and I believe many players would leave because of it. Maybe having one world with enabled could work. After all whats the point of having a nice looking wilderness if all you can do is look at it.
 
Thanks for the input Xskill - I don't think banning excavation is the answer either... but I think I might have a solution that will make the server more harmonious going forward yes?
 
Thanks for the feedback Qwertz - you could do more than just 'look' at Outer Rim 'locked' worlds - all you need to do is faction claim and you can build all you want to - yes?
 
desmonster

http://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/silver-sinkhole-powerboost.12769/#post-145538

Have you read this thread here? I think if we combined your idea with nray93 's ideas in the other thread, this could be a tremendous idea. This would not only improve the value of silver and provide an appropriate money sink, but would also greatly improve the value of land. Our perceptions of land in these worlds would shift from "whatevs, shovel xp lol" to an actual, precious commodity.

Moreover, these "locked", non-editable worlds could potentially be a bastion for potential roleplay adventuring, and perhaps certain locked chunks could be more resource-dense than other chunks, giving whatever faction that claims it a significantly wealth/power boost of that given control point!

I really think you're on to something.

Edit: I forgot to put the damned link, hehe.
 
Thanks Unluvs - I do to - BTW - where's the link to the thread?
 
Thanks Patrick - I think he should be made to fix it but that's a side issue for another thread in another forum.
 
Removing wilderness entirely is too extreme. Some people don't want to be in a faction, they just want to be wanderers. And besides, it would get annoying to go to mine and then realize "Whoops, someone's already claimed this land, better move back into my land because I'm forced to have a faction if I want to be able to play at all on this server."


In my mind, the real solution is to have the staff start caring about grief. As of right now, they almost ignore it entirely, when all you have to do is walk to the edge of the world spawn and see how griefed it is. They do this on a day-to-day basis, and don't even blink.
 
OK Kirbz - thanks mate - you're really helping me to bash this out. If it was 50/50... half of the worlds locked and half of the worlds and 'wild ' like the ones we already have you could then choose yeah? and then saps like me can go about our merry way in the 'outer rim' locked worlds... yes?
 
Interesting issue. I intend to bring the "Should we enforce rules for not making worlds look shit" thing to attention in the next team meeting. Personal opinions on Bling aside (And my do I have many) this may just bring about some constructive change.
 
Thanks Jared. I am inclined to think though that enforcing rules leads to more work for the Admins - whereas my concept (once fine tuned) would pretty much run itself and give you guys more time to build snowmen ;) - let me be one of the first to say merry Xmas everyone (sorry)
 
Seriously way too much greifing occurs near spawn because atm it seems that admins do not check for it and rely on members reporting it on the forums, but not every member who sees it will report it since most the time it does not concern them and not everyone here has a forums account. May I suggest allowing tickets to be used to report a greifing since it seems unless it has anything to do with someones faction or base most people won't bother reporting it because it takes too long and they just want to come on and play which leads to especially greifed wilderness. There does need to be rules against mass terrain greifing like this or a rule against terrain greifing to level up excavation.
 
Thanks XON - my system would limit griefing to just those worlds deemed as mostly wilderness (like the ones we currently have) so you could choose to move to one of my proposed 'locked' outer rim worlds (join a faction there if you need to or just raise the 200s) and you would never have to worry about griefing in your chosen world again.

BTW - I actively use tickets for grief reporting and (provided it is a grief of some substance) the admins have usually helped me out :)
 
desmonster said:
Thanks for the feedback Qwertz - you could do more than just 'look' at Outer Rim 'locked' worlds - all you need to do is faction claim and you can build all you want to - yes?
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You may have noticed in my post I said "wilderness" not outer/locked worlds. Just look at the dynmap, most of the worlds' land is not claimed. Unless you were to increase the amount of power a player gets I don't see how it will work. I mean if it did work it could be very good, especially if you couple it with a higher faction cost it would force people to join a faction, making factions bigger.

And its qwerty, not qwertz

EDIT: The comment above had not loaded for me when I posted this post.
 
desmonster you can use tickets to report greifings 0,o.
Also having a limit on building in wilderness would be a nightmare when you want to mine to get diamonds and stuff, everyone would then go to this material land place or to a world without this wilderness limit with all the stuff they need and mine there, which means that the material land place will become SO contested by all of the massivecraft community. Only the people who get there first will be able to get anything, and if they can't get what they want at the material place they will have to go to other worlds without this limit and in the end all world without the limit will be greifed beyond belief. Also if you want to plan ahead and claim something for your faction you can't eg. you built a road in wilderness you have it claimed but with this limited wilderness building thing I have a feeling everyone would just leave worlds that limit it and go to others since they can't build what they want where they want, also hermits would build all their houses in world without the limit meaning more hermit houses in certain worlds.
Overall it seems that there never will be a way to stop greifing in minecraft ever, its a flaw of the game that we just have to accept, we can try to prevent it or punish it but we can't ever completely stop it
 
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