Archived Alterations To Premium Perks

[Mecharic]

Forward:

So many threads I've seen and participated in that complain about the premium skills and "Overpoweredness". Well, I haven't seen many threads that exist to help balance premium perks and better meld the premium abilities into the Massivecraft theme of roleplay. So I've created this thread to serve that purpose. If such a thread has already been created feel free to (as an admin) post a link to it and close this thread. To all those who seek to post comments in my thread: THIS IS NOT A BITCH ABOUT PREMIUM THREAD! If you are dumb enough to make it into such a thread I will have it closed down and will be disappointed in the lot of you. Now, on the to thread...

As stated in the title, this thread is about alterations that could be made to premium perks. The current premium perks are as follows:

• Join servers even if they are full
• Craft and wear diamond armor (only premium members can)
• Open your huge backpack using /bp.
• Open a portable workbench using /wb.

• Faction power doubled. You get 20 instead of 10
• Faction power regeneration speed doubled

• Keep backpack items on death (always)
• Keep armor slots on death (always)
• Keep inventory items unless you attacked someone within 30s
• Keep xp level (always)
• Keep xp progress unless you attacked someone within 30s

• Create portal gates
• Build and fire cannons
• Wear any block as a hat
• MCMMO cooldowns reduced to 50%

• Craft horse armor (when 1.6 is released)
• Craft and use name tags (when 1.6 is released)

• Get double money drops from mobs
• Display another players money using /money balance <player>
• Display the money top list using /money top silver [page=1]

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These are the perks being discussed in this thread. The perks in red are the ones I feel should be left out of this thread as they have minimal relevance to the true topic of the thread. That leaves the following perks, which are the most influential in the conflict:

• Craft and wear diamond armor (only premium members can)
• Build and fire cannons
• MCMMO cooldowns reduced to 50%
• Craft horse armor (when 1.6 is released)
• Craft and use name tags (when 1.6 is released)

Now, I personally proposed the following alterations in another thread:

1. Diamond Armor - Give this to everyone. There is nothing roleplay accurate about only premiums being able to use diamond armor and everyone knows it. The feature is literally a pay-to-win feature and shouldn't even be considered under the current standing proclamations by the server administration. And if premiums get pissy at first they will soon accept it when they start killing non prems and getting sets of diamond armor they can then use for themselves.
2. MCMMO Cooldowns - ahahaha no. Premiums should have to wait like everyone else - indeed, they should have to wait longer since the rich and powerful weren't exactly the most skilled at survival tasks like woodcutting or mining.
3. RolePlay Based Perks - There should be perks that are based on roleplay rather then pvp.
   1. Names - Premiums could be able to change their IG nametag to suit their RP character. For example, I would be Mr.Paloin instead of Mecharic (only in Local Chat mind you). This would definitely make it easier for Roleplay to Occur if possible to code.
   2. Item-Carry - This is probably way too complex to be possible, but if it is Premiums should be given the ability to have an item in their hotbar and type /holditem to have it go in their hand like if it was on a wall (for example, torches. You type /holditem and it gives off light and looks like you're holding a real wall-torch). An item in /holditem could be either dual (meaning it goes to the hand not used for tools/blocks) or single (meaning it prevents use of another item). Would be AWESOME for roleplay.
   3. Specialty Items - Craft yourself a pipe or a cane, then use the /holditem feature to use it in a realistic manner!
      1. Pipe - 3 stick with a wood block above the end (either will do).
      2. Cane - 3 sticks in a horizontal manner.
      3. Latern - Redstone Light in the middle, lever on the top.
      4. Hats - Realistic hats made by putting 3 blocks of Wool, Wheat, or Leather on the bottom and then 1 block of the same substance in the middle and on top.
      5. Statue - 3 stone blocks on the bottom, 2 stone brick on top. Creates a random statue of a mob/Steve/important players. (this could even be a standalone for decor).
4. Horses & Armor - I do not see the value in preventing normal players who may very well be richer then their premium counterparts from crafting and equipping horse armor - even if it is a massivecraft plugin

And I will now add to these alterations the following:

1. Cannons - Anyone should be able to build a cannon.

I cannot think of any other ideas at this time (y u no work brain?!?!?!) but I'm sure you folks of massivecraft can! What I hope we ALL aim for is something that meets the standards of Massivecraft and aims towards supporting the goal of Massivecraft, which is to be a RolePlay server. That means that ideas posted here should attempt to meet the following:

1. Have some effect on the Role Play aspect of Massivecraft.
2. Not cause the server become a Pay to Win or Pay to Play server.
3. Not cause the server to lose it's entire premium base.
4. Not enhance premium to the point of obnoxious.

Good Thinking, Massivecrafters, and may Notch watch over you! Remember to be polite and courteous to all posts regardless of personal thoughts on them - all ideas are welcome, after all.

~Mecharic - Part Time Drunk, Full Time Banker​

 

[FCCarnilord]

After reading this, my IQ has raised by 125. And, you have someone on your side for this

 

[ulumulu1510]

http://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/premium-taking-over-massive-craft.7580/page-2#post-66676
this is the answer for anything besides the cannons.

Cannons:

There is simply no permission node for it, go and tell it to the plugin author how we did that several times already.
Inform yourself before posting something that is technically not possible for us to enable that quickly.

 

[justin5191]

What problem do you have with name tags?

 

[prestatamore]

I agree with Mech about prem being pay-to-win. I don't believe premium features should relate to combat, and I therefore support non-prems being able to craft and wear diamond armor, as well as craft and use all forms of horse armor. For me, the /bp and /wb features are enough to make premium worth it. But, we musn't forget that a significant amount of those who do donate for premium benefits are those who are heavy in pvp and grind their combat skills every day, which intrinsically gives them a combat advantage.

In conclusion, I don't think premium benefits are OP, but I do think premium benefits need to be toned down so that when it comes to combat, and thereby war, premiums don't have an automatic advantage over non-prems.

 

[Mecharic]

http://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/premium-taking-over-massive-craft.7580/page-2#post-66676
this is the answer for anything besides the cannons.

Cannons:

There is simply no permission node for it, go and tell it to the plugin author how we did that several times already.
Inform yourself before posting something that is technically not possible for us to enable that quickly.

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Cannons: Understood and accepted. You have my apologies for not being aware of this. I do suggest you make a note on the website stating that it is a flaw in the very plugin for cannons itself that prevent use by non-premiums, not a choice of the administration. As for the rest of you answer, I replied in that thread but will be so kind as to quote both posts in this one for relevance. Will take me all of 5 seconds or so.

1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
2) Who are you to say that they should have longer cool downs? Infact, it's one thing that makes it attractive for the not-pvpers since they can use the farming and smiting abilitys faster. We will certainly not remove that.
3)All players should have the same advantage in a pure roleplay situation, mind how we didn't enable special races only for premium. RP should be a feature that is open to all people. (and no, I don't consider wearing diamond armor an Rp skill)
4) Being rich doesn't make a difference, it's a service we offer and we decide whether we enable a reciepe only for some people and not for the others.

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1) Being able to walk around with powerful and high-durability armor doesn't guarantee a win, I'll give you that. But it DOES make winning much easier.
2) Fair enough, I didn't think the idea through haha
3) Ok, I can agree, all players deserve to have equal access to roleplay. But continuing that line of thought allowing one person to use something that definitely affects the ability to roleplay while not allowing another player access to this same item/tool seems just a tiny bit hypocritical.
4) You missed the point. In REAL medieval times the wealthier the person the more likely to have a horse they were. Indeed, having a horse of your own was a sign of wealth. Being able to armor it even more so. If Roleplay is what you seek then preventing a non-prem with 500 silver from armoring up their horse is like preventing a Real-Life Billionaire from owning a fast car.

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[DOUBLEPOST=1370896455,1370896310][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, in the future, I highly suggest not posting stuff like this:

Please do not post about the diamond armor anymore, we made our point clear and it is deffinitly not to harm anyone. So why don't you get over it and enjoy the game rather than reading tons of forums stuff that leads into nothing?

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The video wasn't even that good.

 

[Grailen]

Diamond Armor - Give this to everyone. There is nothing roleplay accurate about only premiums being able to use diamond armor and everyone knows it

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There is literately no roleplay to turning diamonds into armor period....

 

[Mecharic]

There is literately no roleplay to turning diamonds into armor period....

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Yes, I support the idea of removing diamond armor entirely myself, actually. But I doubt everyone does.

 

[Grailen]

Yes, I support the idea of removing diamond armor entirely myself, actually. But I doubt everyone does.

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I personally do not you seem to think there is a way to Win at a sandbox game when the whole point of it is to have no linear path therefore make your own non-pvp and non raidable perception of winning.

 

[Mecharic]

I personally do not you seem to think there is a way to Win at a sandbox game when the whole point of it is to have no linear path therefore make your own non-pvp and non raidable perception of winning.

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Well, in that case I've already won I've created a bank, led several factions, built as much as I pleased, made many friends, enjoyed it for the most part, and even become well known while I did so. And all it cost me was my entire lifes worth of pride haha.

 

[Grailen]

Well, in that case I've already won I've created a bank, led several factions, built as much as I pleased, made many friends, enjoyed it for the most part, and even become well known while I did so. And all it cost me was my entire lifes worth of pride haha.

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Yes and therefore your Pay to win Argument is invalid.[DOUBLEPOST=1370897708,1370897638][/DOUBLEPOST]

 

[Mecharic]

Yes and therefore your Pay to win Argument is invalid.

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When I said "Win" I meant win in a pvp sense, since all of my achievements listed have done jack shit for my faction or my ability to protect them. Nothing worse then needing to tell your entire faction "Hide, we can't win." Especially when they then all try to fight anyway

But we digress from the main topic! Grailen, what do you think about my suggestions and do you have any of your own?

 

[Grailen]

When I said "Win" I meant win in a pvp sense, since all of my achievements listed have done jack shit for my faction or my ability to protect them. Nothing worse then needing to tell your entire faction "Hide, we can't win." Especially when they then all try to fight anyway

But we digress from the main topic! Grailen, what do you think about my suggestions and do you have any of your own?

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Which thread is this again? oh yeah that one well Why not just wait until the modding api for cool new shit and/or give non prems the ability to wear diamond armor as long as it doesn't have unbreaking on it.

 

[FCCarnilord]

I like these ideas, but about the local chat name-change, Perhaps it can be BOUGHT by the players? Because some heavy roleplayers are not premium, and they may really want that name change. and when i mean BUY, i mean by SILVER. Perhaps like 150s or something. *This was not fully thought through, this is only a suggestion.*

 

[Grailen]

I like these ideas, but about the local chat name-change, Perhaps it can be BOUGHT by the players? Because some heavy roleplayers are not premium, and they may really want that name change. and when i mean BUY, i mean by SILVER. Perhaps like 150s or something. *This was not fully thought through, this is only a suggestion.*

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Yeah but you can't give to much away for silver without massivecraft selling silver for money which is a HUGE no no in terms of game integrity.

 

[Mecharic]

Then the name change idea should be gifted to all members as a sign of the Admins support for Roleplay on Massivecraft.

 

[JP1976]

Then the name change idea should be gifted to all members as a sign of the Admins support for Roleplay on Massivecraft.

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Actually I think this would be a good way to reduce some premium advantages. I do have a couple suggestions of my own, but they don't involve taking out prem advantages, just buffing some vanilla aspects/adding some features for everyone. If prems got new features as well as non-prems then it would look more fair. That way it is more of a gameplay shift, than a nerf. I would like to see either an increase in durability of iron armor (or a decrease in the damage to armor done by axes) or perhaps a custom enchantment (like Axes protection, which would limit the damage to armor dealt by axes). I don't see the investment in enchanting iron when it won't last a whole fight. I would have no problem repairing it after each fight; however, it won't last a single fight (or so I am told). It is important not to just nerf premiums, but rather to introduce new gameplay aspects to both groups. Honestly, premium perks is a necessary evil, and there is no debating that.

 

[TechPac]

Just because you are prem dosnt mean you will win, ive completely destroyed a premium player as a non prem, mcmmo is what affects that, personally darkrooms make it waaaaaaay too easy to be a god pvp'r (yes i know mcmmo is not everything to pvp) but mcmmo was meant to develope with RP, by fighting you become stronger, not sitting inside a darkroom grinding on endless mobs for hours on end. Personally, i believe darkrooms are the issue with people being OP not premiumship. I know other people feel differently about this and I understand thier logic on it, thats just my veiw on it :/ (and yes i am guilty of using a darkroom)

 

[ulumulu1510]

Also, in the future, I highly suggest not posting stuff like this:
The video wasn't even that good.

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I personally feel that being honest to a person you reply to is worth more than making a good answer. I could simply tell "mmhm aham.....mhm...you are right we will consider it" and then do nothing. But this is not what I am about, I am just hones with you. And the song:
It simply covers this sentence really well to "get over it", and yes I really like the song.

 

[Xskill]

I still don't understand why people are still talking about all this nonsense. You can buy premium for 100 silver in game. People sell it all the time.

Can we please stop with all these premium threads now? This is what? The 6th, 7th I've seen today?

 

[iBeSlurping]

For all the 4 month I've play on Massivecraft I never ever See my Armor bar full you get what that means...[DOUBLEPOST=1370932661,1370932620][/DOUBLEPOST]The premium is like the new Vampire BloodLust just saying

 

[ulumulu1510]

For all the 4 month I've play on Massivecraft I never ever See my Armor bar full you get what that means...[DOUBLEPOST=1370932661,1370932620][/DOUBLEPOST]The premium is like the new Vampire BloodLust just saying

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Bloodlust was different actually, in the bloodlust case we felt it being a powerfull task, though not OP. The reason we disabled it for now was/is the unreliability to gather information when it comes to hacking/cheating. It was a security lack and that was why we disabled it.

 

[Jomdorr]

Premium needs to be rebalanced though, they kinda do have the combat advantage above the non premiums, and its just not fair.

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Deal with it dude[DOUBLEPOST=1370985674,1370985501][/DOUBLEPOST]

Then the name change idea should be gifted to all members as a sign of the Admins support for Roleplay on Massivecraft.

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I massively object to making diamond armour available for non prem! I'd rather no one had it than allowing non prems to have it.

I would like to see cannons to be enabled for non prems though, so they can only use em

 

[Mecharic]

What problem do you have with name tags?

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Deal with it dude[DOUBLEPOST=1370985674,1370985501][/DOUBLEPOST]
I massively object to making diamond armour available for non prem! I'd rather no one had it than allowing non prems to have it.

I would like to see cannons to be enabled for non prems though, so they can only use em

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I massively agree with you, Diamond Armor should be discontinued server-wide. Cannons, as stated by Ulu, have a flaw in the plugin itself that prevents this.

 

[Jomdorr]

I massively agree with you, Diamond Armor should be discontinued server-wide. Cannons, as stated by Ulu, have a flaw in the plugin itself that prevents this.

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The only problem with getting rid of diamond armour will mean diamondz will have less demand and it could potentially crash the diamond market and massivecraft economy could crash again...

 

[Mecharic]

The only problem with getting rid of diamond armour will mean diamondz will have less demand and it could potentially crash the diamond market and massivecraft economy could crash again...

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The market never REALLY crashed, just the value of diamonds within it. It shouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market except to cause a spike in Iron Value and a drop of some level in the value of diamonds (should be that much, tools are still diamond-allowed).

 

[FCCarnilord]

I massively agree with you, Diamond Armor should be discontinued server-wide. Cannons, as stated by Ulu, have a flaw in the plugin itself that prevents this.

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The diamond price would nearly die. Let's face it, even if everyone will be able to wear diamond armour, you won't see EVERYONE wearing it. Iron is the best for non-premiums, but you don't see them running around spawn with that on, and same with diamond, premiums can wear it, they won't always be blue tin cans running around. I talk about the armour running around thing because i remember seeing it in another thread about the diamond armour.

 

[Jomdorr]

The market never REALLY crashed, just the value of diamonds within it. It shouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market except to cause a spike in Iron Value and a drop of some level in the value of diamonds (should be that much, tools are still diamond-allowed).

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I lost over 400 silver in diamond value when the server diamonds crashed cause of my chest shop so it very much crashed[DOUBLEPOST=1370988210,1370988171][/DOUBLEPOST]I bought em at 50 copper each and they sold at 15 copper in was Los sing so much money per diam

 

[Ulpix]

If you remove diamond armor server-wide, then you would have to PvP in iron armor. If you face anyone with even a decent axes skill, you Protection IV Unbreaking III Iron Armor would be shredded in only a few hits. PvP would be much less enjoyable and it would last 15 seconds, like really, REALLY bad sex.

 

[Mecharic]

When did this go from premium perks to types of armor?

 

[Kram_]

If you remove diamond armor server-wide, then you would have to PvP in iron armor. If you face anyone with even a decent axes skill, you Protection IV Unbreaking III Iron Armor would be shredded in only a few hits. PvP would be much less enjoyable and it would last 15 seconds, like really, REALLY bad sex.

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So you mean like now, when it's Prem v Non-prem ._.
I wonder if that pluggin that makes armor have different weight and slows people down when they wear it still exists, that could be an appropriate nerf to Diamond armor without removing it from the prem-list, make it worse in some aspects, but leave it as it is in others, by this i mean the mod, not like nerfing its armor value or stuff

 

[Cruallassar]

Almost everyone running around in diamond armor probably would happen. In fact, it already does happen. Even you, Mecharic, I see running around in full diamond 2/3 of the time in daily life. I see people at the uspawn in blue metal all the time too. Not everyone, but a lot of people. If diamond armor is made available to everyone, it would need a texture/name change to make it look nice. (Aluminum armor!) I find the diamond armor at this point to be better removed, people ignore the fact that, despite that a good pvper in iron can beat a junky one in diamond, many if not most diamond armor wearers are good pvpers. I can't survive in a war to save my life mainly because the other side is so armored my puny bow just doesn't do enough damage. I'm also not fool enough to take my partially enchanted equipment into a battle I'll just lose it in. If armor must be prem-only, make it gold. It's less good, but looks good, like a dress uniform. (That is just a suggestion for example, please don't do that just for roleplay looks) Thats my piece on the armor, now on the Mech's other points.

The building and firing cannon, I honestly don't personally have a problem with that, I havn't run up against cannon that much, I don't think people use them that much, but it does give prems another advantage, and it's ridiculous and annoying. Thats the sentiment, here is why. Cannon are less then fully effective, due to the fact that you can't aim well, but one of the theoretically best uses is as a bombardment weapon. And to do this in a faction with one prem, like Hisoka, that means that the most effective warrior (due to the diamond armor) is running, overworked, up and down the line of cannon, reloading them so that people can shoot. It is only marginally better then firing them all himself. Having a row of people reloading their own cannon is far better, it means the prem can oversee the battle, it means the cannon can actually spend more time shooting and less time waiting to be reloaded. Now the role play. Loading a cannon is one of the most elementary tasks there is. It's grunt work. It's there for the people who can't other wise fight. That means, the nonprems who can't fight. The noobs, the less then good pvpers, etc. Having only the prems able to load a cannon is like saying only a rocket scientist can fix the car I don't have.

MCMMO cooldowns: This wouldn't really be a problem for normal domestic purposes, like digging a hole. However, those abilities aren't limited to that, are they? I've been killed by a beserker/whatevertheabilityisfortheaxe is more times then not, and all by premiums. I have to second guess (all right do I want to use my ultimate not actually that good special mcmmo attack that I can't use for another 5 minutes now or not?) during a battle, and all the prems are using it again and again after 30 seconds, granted slight exaggeration. It gives another combat advantage, and that is the problem.

Horse armor: Ok, most people have already said the problems with this. I can use it, but I can't craft it . Whats the point of doing this? I am rich and have a horse, but no horse armor? Something I have to buy from someone else to have it at all? The list of arguments goes on and on. More and in detail can be provided on demand.

Nametags: I don't actually know what those are supposed to do in 1.6 anyway, but they sound like a vanilla feature I can't use. Probably not popular, but at the moment I don't care since I don't know what it is. If I am enlightened, I will have an opinion.

That is my ideas on what is wrong and why. (excluding maybe extreme irritation at the keep xp feature) If we start to want what to do instead to fix it, but maintain the money to massivecraft, that can and will come later if there is interest in it.

 

[Mecharic]

Cruallassar - I'm trying to make a point of not wearing it (though mostly because then people with axes take me out and damage it) and I rarely wear it in Regalia if I remember to take it off Except when recruiting, then I feel it gives more authority to me as a 'powerful' player that runs a faction rather then be unarmored. After all, who would you follow, the guy in full diamond or the guy with seemingly nothing? (assuming you're a noob)

 

[Cruallassar]

Neither actually. I don't really care either way, for the most part. I would go with the one who's faction sounds best, both from the owner, and from what info I could find on the wiki. But I see what you mean with regard to others, and you have a point. I was however also making another point, not that you wear armor all the time. No condemnation of you for wearing blue.

 

[Mecharic]

 

[Cruallassar]

I have looked up what nametags are, and I now have my opinion. This opinion: I agree that it should be a non-prem feature. The reason: Roleplay. There is almost no reason why it would affect pvp, but it is good for roleplay. I can have my horse Silver, in roleplay, and everyone would know that that is my horse. I could name all my horses 'Triple M' And have a ranch called the triple M ranch, and everyone would know they are my horses. It adds a whole now level of roleplay, it shouldn't be restricted through prem only. Think about it, the possibility of horse/cattle rustling, or lack thereof, by naming or renaming your horses and cattle. I see a pig that I named wilbur in my neighbor's pen, and I can tell him, 'you stole wilbur!' and I have valid proof. (Yes this system can have problems, but not with the use of intelligence.) There are so many applications, it would be almost a crime to restrict it to prems.

 

[Cowboys1919]

MCMMO Cooldowns - ahahaha no. Premiums should have to wait like everyone else - indeed, they should have to wait longer since the rich and powerful weren't exactly the most skilled at survival tasks like woodcutting or mining.

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Main reason I get premium. And who said premiums were rich a powerful?[DOUBLEPOST=1371009363,1371009257][/DOUBLEPOST]

Diamond Armor - Give this to everyone. There is nothing roleplay accurate about only premiums being able to use diamond armor and everyone knows it. The feature is literally a pay-to-win feature ...

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Heck no it isn't. People need to learn that the way to kill people isn't "tanking". The person with diamond armor / higher mcmmo will always win. Strategy always prevails.[DOUBLEPOST=1371009686][/DOUBLEPOST]I fought wars as a non premium, killed ItsNickBarry a few times. I would think of the advantages he had over me and those cool features of premium are kind of what kept me from leaving the server. I had an aspiration when I was a normal player of getting premium one day, and hey, I had almost 1,000 silver as a non premium and someone bought it for me for paint them silver. All it takes is a little hard work and you can level the playing field.

 

[justin5191]

I have looked up what nametags are, and I now have my opinion. This opinion: I agree that it should be a non-prem feature. The reason: Roleplay. There is almost no reason why it would affect pvp, but it is good for roleplay. I can have my horse Silver, in roleplay, and everyone would know that that is my horse. I could name all my horses 'Triple M' And have a ranch called the triple M ranch, and everyone would know they are my horses. It adds a whole now level of roleplay, it shouldn't be restricted through prem only. Think about it, the possibility of horse/cattle rustling, or lack thereof, by naming or renaming your horses and cattle. I see a pig that I named wilbur in my neighbor's pen, and I can tell him, 'you stole wilbur!' and I have valid proof. (Yes this system can have problems, but not with the use of intelligence.) There are so many applications, it would be almost a crime to restrict it to prems.

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What you are either purposely leaving out or forgetting is that any mob with a name tag doesn't despawn.

 

[Mecharic]

Main reason I get premium. And who said premiums were rich a powerful?

Heck no it isn't. People need to learn that the way to kill people isn't "tanking". The person with diamond armor / higher mcmmo will always win. Strategy always prevails.

I fought wars as a non premium, killed ItsNickBarry a few times. I would think of the advantages he had over me and those cool features of premium are kind of what kept me from leaving the server. I had an aspiration when I was a normal player of getting premium one day, and hey, I had almost 1,000 silver as a non premium and someone bought it for me for paint them silver. All it takes is a little hard work and you can level the playing field.

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1) Technically someone who can use diamond armor (since diamond is usually valuble) or purchase prem with silver would be considered "wealthy" by any standard. JMO on that though, it's subject to interpretation.

2) I agree that diamond armor + high mcmmo = victory, but that's the problem. If balance be what you seek then diamond armor needs to be equally distributed. As for strategy, I agree again, it will kick premium ass - but you won't get drops from a trap killing a premium.

3) Fair enough, hard work IS how I pay for my premium (yay.... Giant Foods.... joy....) so I get that.

 

[thor5648]

Perhaps everyone should be able to wear diamond armor, since iron breaks so fast, but only premiums can wear diamond enchanted armor?