Premium Taking Over Massive Craft?

Do you agree in any way?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 47.5%

  • No

    Votes: 21 52.5%
  • Total voters
    40
Status
Not open for further replies.
d simply just like to point out that premiums and non-premiums should have equal chances in battle. Both have their time, so both can deside weather to use it to train in darkrooms or do as they please. But neither of them deserve to have a headstart because they can wear better armour that others can't. Even if you cannot get the items premiums have due to their perks, you atleast stand a fair chance to defend urself and prevent them from taking yours.

It is within my belief that once we have equal chances that their will be less argue. We have a choise when it comes to how we spend our time. That same choise is taken away when it comes to which armour we like to wear. :)
 
Tony371 said:
Also now take into the context that premiums will now be the only ones to be able to craft horse armor? So now they have Prot IV armor a horse and diamond armor with they're horse, and the non-premium has nothing? Im just saying non-prems are becoming useless.
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how do you know that just because non premiums might not be able to craft diamond armor but that doesnt mean horse armor
 
justin5191 said:
It would be better to make it so no one can craft diamond armor imo.
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May I ask why this is so? Diamond is a vanilla item, I can't really see your logic here. Unless you mean to say that if everyone wears Iron Armor there would be fewer godsets of armor out there? I really want to know the logic behind the thought.
 
Mecharic said:
  1. Diamond Armor - Give this to everyone. There is nothing roleplay accurate about only premiums being able to use diamond armor and everyone knows it. The feature is literally a pay-to-win feature and shouldn't even be considered under the current standing proclamations by the server administration. And if premiums get pissy at first they will soon accept it when they start killing non prems and getting sets of diamond armor they can then use for themselves.
  2. MCMMO Cooldowns - ahahaha no. Premiums should have to wait like everyone else - indeed, they should have to wait longer since the rich and powerful weren't exactly the most skilled at survival tasks like woodcutting or mining.
  3. RolePlay Based Perks - There should be perks that are based on roleplay rather then pvp.
    1. Names - Premiums could be able to change their IG nametag to suit their RP character. For example, I would be Mr.Paloin instead of Mecharic (only in Local Chat mind you). This would definitely make it easier for Roleplay to Occur if possible to code.
    2. Item-Carry - This is probably way too complex to be possible, but if it is Premiums should be given the ability to have an item in their hotbar and type /holditem to have it go in their hand like if it was on a wall (for example, torches. You type /holditem and it gives off light and looks like you're holding a real wall-torch). An item in /holditem could be either dual (meaning it goes to the hand not used for tools/blocks) or single (meaning it prevents use of another item). Would be AWESOME for roleplay.
    3. Specialty Items - Craft yourself a pipe or a cane, then use the /holditem feature to use it in a realistic manner!
      1. Pipe - 3 stick with a wood block above the end (either will do).
      2. Cane - 3 sticks in a horizontal manner.
      3. Latern - Redstone Light in the middle, lever on the top.
      4. Hats - Realistic hats made by putting 3 blocks of Wool, Wheat, or Leather on the bottom and then 1 block of the same substance in the middle and on top.
      5. Statue - 3 stone blocks on the bottom, 2 stone brick on top. Creates a random statue of a mob/Steve/important players. (this could even be a standalone for decor).
  4. Horses & Armor - I do not see the value in preventing normal players who may very well be richer then their premium counterparts from crafting and equipping horse armor - even if it is a massivecraft plugin.
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1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
2) Who are you to say that they should have longer cool downs? Infact, it's one thing that makes it attractive for the not-pvpers since they can use the farming and smiting abilitys faster. We will certainly not remove that.
3)All players should have the same advantage in a pure roleplay situation, mind how we didn't enable special races only for premium. RP should be a feature that is open to all people. (and no, I don't consider wearing diamond armor an Rp skill)
4) Being rich doesn't make a difference, it's a service we offer and we decide whether we enable a reciepe only for some people and not for the others.

Rooseus said:
Why not just allow non-premiums to wear diamond armor?
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Because it would make premium less attractive, which we certainly don't want to.
favoured said:
Also Get rid of reduced MCMMO cooldowns.
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Same here.

After all, the best way to get someone donating is to take something from him that he would really really like to have, something that he maybe is used to have. Diamond armor is really hard to get in a singleplayer session and it's one of these things that make you say: " I want that". It's not to harm anyone, it's a good market strategy. And by all means, complaint about it but we won't change it. Cayorion makes these decisions, he needs the money to run the server and only with the premium strategy we have we can achieve that.

Please do not post about the diamond armor anymore, we made our point clear and it is deffinitly not to harm anyone. So why don't you get over it and enjoy the game rather than reading tons of forums stuff that leads into nothing?
 
Mecharic said:
May I ask why this is so? Diamond is a vanilla item, I can't really see your logic here. Unless you mean to say that if everyone wears Iron Armor there would be fewer godsets of armor out there? I really want to know the logic behind the thought.
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For starters even in a fantasy rp world such as massivecraft diamond armor seems a bit far fetched. Also pvp in iron armor is better imo, because you will have less juggernaut type players. Of course this would probably reduce such things as god armor and what not as well. While diamond may be a vanilla minecraft item right now it is not in a very vanilla state and I feel it would be better to just cut off this perk then to give it to everyone.
 
......

Looking back on this, I want to apologize and say some things:

1: I was speaking out of my bum when I first posted on this thread

2: I see everyone's concerns now, and honestly my opinion has, in fact, changed.

ulumulu1510 said:
1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
2) Who are you to say that they should have longer cool downs? Infact, it's one thing that makes it attractive for the not-pvpers since they can use the farming and smiting abilitys faster. We will certainly not remove that.
3)All players should have the same advantage in a pure roleplay situation, mind how we didn't enable special races only for premium. RP should be a feature that is open to all people. (and no, I don't consider wearing diamond armor an Rp skill)
4) Being rich doesn't make a difference, it's a service we offer and we decide whether we enable a reciepe only for some people and not for the others.



Because it would make premium less attractive, which we certainly don't want to.
Same here.

After all, the best way to get someone donating is to take something from him that he would really really like to have, something that he maybe is used to have. Diamond armor is really hard to get in a singleplayer session and it's one of these things that make you say: " I want that". It's not to harm anyone, it's a good market strategy. And by all means, complaint about it but we won't change it. Cayorion makes these decisions, he needs the money to run the server and only with the premium strategy we have we can achieve that.

Please do not post about the diamond armor anymore, we made our point clear and it is deffinitly not to harm anyone. So why don't you get over it and enjoy the game rather than reading tons of forums stuff that leads into nothing?
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1) No, but it gives premiums a VERY unfair advantage. And it pretty much makes faction leadership for non premiums impossible. Its like if you took 2 people, gave on a handgun, and pitted them against each other: 9 times out of 10, the guy with the gun is gonna win.

2) Again, it gives Premium raiders a very unfair advantage. If you really want them to have cool downs, limit it to smelting and farming.

"Its not harm to anyone." Really? You know, besides practically making it impossible to have any non premium faction leaders, limit how much raiding a non premium can do, and in some ways goes as far to effect the server economy itself, I guess it REALLY doesn't effect anyone, does it?

Oh, and its kinda hard to enjoy the game when I can only play 3/4 of it without paying more money on top of the $27 bucks it cost me to buy the game. But thanks anyway.
 
ulumulu1510 said:
1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
2) Who are you to say that they should have longer cool downs? Infact, it's one thing that makes it attractive for the not-pvpers since they can use the farming and smiting abilitys faster. We will certainly not remove that.
3)All players should have the same advantage in a pure roleplay situation, mind how we didn't enable special races only for premium. RP should be a feature that is open to all people. (and no, I don't consider wearing diamond armor an Rp skill)
4) Being rich doesn't make a difference, it's a service we offer and we decide whether we enable a reciepe only for some people and not for the others.
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1) Being able to walk around with powerful and high-durability armor doesn't guarantee a win, I'll give you that. But it DOES make winning much easier.
2) Fair enough, I didn't think the idea through haha :)
3) Ok, I can agree, all players deserve to have equal access to roleplay. But continuing that line of thought allowing one person to use something that definitely affects the ability to roleplay while not allowing another player access to this same item/tool seems just a tiny bit hypocritical.
4) You missed the point. In REAL medieval times the wealthier the person the more likely to have a horse they were. Indeed, having a horse of your own was a sign of wealth. Being able to armor it even more so. If Roleplay is what you seek then preventing a non-prem with 500 silver from armoring up their horse is like preventing a Real-Life Billionaire from owning a fast car.

ulumulu1510 said:
Please do not post about the diamond armor anymore, we made our point clear and it is deffinitly not to harm anyone. So why don't you get over it and enjoy the game rather than reading tons of forums stuff that leads into nothing?
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The very fact that so many have posted about it renders your comment null. If it wasn't having an affect people wouldn't be talking about it. You know, kinda like how no one complains about creative gates or, usually, the cooldowns. Or the BP, WB, and hat. Or the NoDrops, XP saving, and Double Money Drops. All of which don't serve any RP purpose but enhance ones pvp abilities by their very nature (except the hat I suppose lol) (more silver for supplies, larger inventory for supplies, workbench to make weapons on the go, more xp for enchanting, less cooldowns for pvp special attacks, portals to raid faster... that stuff). In all honestly Premium is a moving Tank with Teleportation(Portals) and Immortality(they don't drop much really, usually just whatever weapon they use).

You're putting the desire to get more premium members to support the server (important) over the value of the many players who aren't premium. However, it seems you aren't willing to listen to any ideas, period, so there is no purpose in trying. I am disappointed.

justin5191 said:
For starters even in a fantasy rp world such as massivecraft diamond armor seems a bit far fetched. Also pvp in iron armor is better imo, because you will have less juggernaut type players. Of course this would probably reduce such things as god armor and what not as well. While diamond may be a vanilla minecraft item right now it is not in a very vanilla state and I feel it would be better to just cut off this perk then to give it to everyone.
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See, THIS I can agree with because it supports the RolePlay aspect of the server and helps balance out the battles between factions. Now that this logic has been explained I can state fully that I wouldn't mind having all diamond armor disabled. Would look nice on my wall too :P
 
ulumulu1510 said:
the best way to get someone donating is to take something from him that he would really really like to have
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I disagree with this and I am ashamed that this is the logic behind the diamond armor/prem issue. Don't take vanilla gameplay mechanics from players - that's atrocious - but give them new features that will entice them enough for them to want to donate.

By taking away vanilla game mechanics that all players are entitled to, you are extorting them, making them have to donate money to you in order to get their natural gameplay back, which is something I and many others disagree with.
 
prestatamore said:
I disagree with this and I am ashamed that this is the logic behind the diamond armor/prem issue. Don't take vanilla gameplay mechanics from players - that's atrocious - but give them new features that will entice them enough for them to want to donate.

By taking away vanilla game mechanics that all players are entitled to, you are extorting them, making them have to donate money to you in order to get their natural gameplay back, which is something I and many others disagree with.
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Not to mention its practically borderline illegal.
 
Mecharic has literally taken words out of my mouth on this issue. I agree completely with the four resolutions you've made. I also hope you realise that when you made a thread about Hisoka surrendering you took my sarcasm seriously.

The one thing I would suggest to the Admins is either prepare to rewrite half of MCCMO skills taking out alot of the axes bits, listen to the balancing Mecharic has thought of. I would be willing to bet my life that if you listened to MEcharic's suggestions the premium limit may stay the same at first instead of increasing from sharding but after a month it will start rising again faster then before actually as the people whom rage-quitted premium realise they can't live without the blatant advantages it gives them.
 
Just saying, it's not donating if you're doing it to get something. If you pay to be able to wear diamond armor, you're buying the feature, NOT donating to the server.
 
4) You missed the point. In REAL medieval times the wealthier the person the more likely to have a horse they were. Indeed, having a horse of your own was a sign of wealth. Being able to armor it even more so. If Roleplay is what you seek then preventing a non-prem with 500 silver from armoring up their horse is like preventing a Real-Life Billionaire from owning a fast car.
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Why not just charge non-premiums a metric shit-ton of silver for Diamond armor then?
 
Tuxyz said:
Huh? What?! Are you high? Please elaborate.
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Charging money for something that is in game to start with, and only letting people who pay have said vanilla feature is not good. I don't think its illegal, but its highly frowned upon.[DOUBLEPOST=1370898147,1370898073][/DOUBLEPOST]
Grailen said:
Creative mode is also a Vanilla feature not offered to players your point?
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The difference is that the server is a SURVIVAL server. Not creative. Creative is a mode, and thus, the server doesn't have to include it.
 
It's economics the server doesn't come free with the download of the minecraft server Client.
 
xRainbow_Crash said:
Charging money for something that is in game to start with, and only letting people who pay have said vanilla feature is not good. I don't think its illegal, but its highly frowned upon.
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All well then, but please don't call something borderline illegal if it's not.
 
Grailen said:
Why not just charge non-premiums a metric shit-ton of silver for Diamond armor then?
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Hey, I'd be cool with that. Then at least anyone who has the IG silver can use Diamond Armor, which IRL would be what happens. The rich get the best stuff and the poor suffer. It would be more beneficial to keep the RW and the GW as independent as possible.
 
Mecharic said:
Hey, I'd be cool with that. Then at least anyone who has the IG silver can use Diamond Armor, which IRL would be what happens. The rich get the best stuff and the poor suffer. It would be more beneficial to keep the RW and the GW as independent as possible.
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Yes I vehemently hate cashshope games, Except ONE tier subscription games.
 
In all honesty... the premiums already have a big ass list of perks, they don't NEED diamond. They've just gotten greedy beyond words. Here's the list, for anyone confused:

Massivecraft said:
  • Join servers even if they are full
  • Craft and wear diamond armor (only premium members can)
  • Open your huge backpack using /bp.
  • Open a portable workbench using /wb.
  • Faction power doubled. You get 20 instead of 10
  • Faction power regeneration speed doubled
  • Keep backpack items on death (always)
  • Keep armor slots on death (always)
  • Keep inventory items unless you attacked someone within 30s
  • Keep xp level (always)
  • Keep xp progress unless you attacked someone within 30s
  • Create portal gates
  • Build and fire cannons
  • Wear any block as a hat
  • MCMMO cooldowns reduced to 50%
  • Craft horse armor (when 1.6 is released)
  • Craft and use name tags (when 1.6 is released)
  • Get double money drops from mobs
  • Display another players money using /money balance <player>
  • Display the money top list using /money top silver [page=1]
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The red is what we want to become server-wide. Such a sacrifice, right?
 
I think that making prems OP will shoo away new members. Whenever I join a server if I notice you have to pay for almost everything then I leave auto-matically. I'm not saying prems are at that stage yet but if they become any more OP then they soon will be
 
... I just read mech's list and counted 20 BENEFITS on that list. 20 things the premium players get that nonpremiums don't. Do premiums REALLY need all those benefits?
 
I really hope the server staff are having a discussion about these thoughts instead of just ignoring what so many people have chosen to say.
 
Mecharic said:
I really hope the server staff are having a discussion about these thoughts instead of just ignoring what so many people have chosen to say.
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You make it sound very dramatic, but in all honesty the amount of people that have posted on this issue are of such a tiny microscopic fraction of the community's playerbase that it would be silly to "have a serious discussion about it".
 
In my opinion non-premiums should get the ability to wear diamond armor too.
Just like the old item-keeping thing, this feature is very old and in my opinion outdated. I'm playing on this server since 1.8.
Back then, diamond armor was just shiny and atleast in the beginning of a fight not a bit better than iron armor (in the old armor system every armor would protect you the same at the beginning, but the more the armor gets damaged, the less it protects you). But with the armor system from 1.0 diamond armor constantly protects the person 20% more than iron armor does (iron armor 60% damage reduction, diamond armor 80% [as far as I know]).

And nowadays with the so called "god-armors" it is even harder to kill a premium. Of course non premiums could just get those enchants for their iron armor too, but with the new mcmmo feature for axes, which makes you really eat every armor, the iron armor would just get totally wrecked in less than 1 minute.

Massivecraft went with the new developement of player-behaviour in regards to the no-drop feature. It was originally intended to prevent the user from losing his items on an accident. And with the ability to wear diamond armor (atleast I assume so) premiums were supposed to be given a shiny look, but not a big pvp-advantage.

Also giving non-premiums the ability to wear diamond armor isn't really a nutpunch for the premiums. It would equal the chances in pvp, which would result in more interesting fights. And finally premiums would be able to get diamond armor drops from non-premiums, while the premiums would still be able to keep their armor on death.

To sum it up.
- Since 1.0 diamond armor gives a greater pvp-advantage making fights not really fair.
- The extra armor damage from axes makes fighting in an iron armor against a well leveled foe nearly impossible.
- Everybody on the server could witness more interesting fights, if non-premiums could wear diamond armor.
- Non-premiums would drop diamond armor, which would be good for the premiums.

But this is just my opinion.
 
ulumulu1510 said:
1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
2) Who are you to say that they should have longer cool downs? Infact, it's one thing that makes it attractive for the not-pvpers since they can use the farming and smiting abilitys faster. We will certainly not remove that.
3)All players should have the same advantage in a pure roleplay situation, mind how we didn't enable special races only for premium. RP should be a feature that is open to all people. (and no, I don't consider wearing diamond armor an Rp skill)
4) Being rich doesn't make a difference, it's a service we offer and we decide whether we enable a reciepe only for some people and not for the others.



Because it would make premium less attractive, which we certainly don't want to.
Same here.

After all, the best way to get someone donating is to take something from him that he would really really like to have, something that he maybe is used to have. Diamond armor is really hard to get in a singleplayer session and it's one of these things that make you say: " I want that". It's not to harm anyone, it's a good market strategy. And by all means, complaint about it but we won't change it. Cayorion makes these decisions, he needs the money to run the server and only with the premium strategy we have we can achieve that.

Please do not post about the diamond armor anymore, we made our point clear and it is deffinitly not to harm anyone. So why don't you get over it and enjoy the game rather than reading tons of forums stuff that leads into nothing?
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I know many people that found the actual server "less atractive" becouse they coulden't wear diamond armor, players that might have been dedicated premiums today. You'll see, in my point of wiev the diamond armor aren't the most intressting part of the premium feutures, portals, canons, the abillity to keep your items in death are. Diamond armor however, is a part of vanilla minecraft which everyone should be able to experience. I also find this really unrealistic, does premiums got some kind of extra strenght to wear diamonds armor? Doesen't the non-premium skin tolerate the blue armor? Is it so that there is a difference between non-premiums and premiums? Are they different races perhaps? Are the non-premums supposed to be poor so they can't affort a armor forged by diamonds. To me this does not make sence. I am confident that you woulden't loose you're premums if you made this change. Non-premums would still be able to drop their armor at death, perhaps it might not be worth it to make a prot IV armor then? No, but this world would make more sence since they actually could wear it.
 
xRainbow_Crash said:
Not to mention its practically borderline illegal.
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I am not sure either but i believe its illigal to make profit of from the content of a game made by others than yourself. Much like copying minecraft and selling it yourself. or features of minecraft which were created by its official makers. Something with copyright perhaps???(bandit)

Anyways...

ulumulu1510 said:
1) It is not pay to win as per definition. You don't get it and win instantly.
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No, not Instantly. But a guy in diamond armour always has an advantage over somewone in iron armour.

Just as i mentioned before, they will have a perminent headstart regardless of their skill levels. In the end when all skills are at there max and all equipment at its best. Diamond guy has a bigger chance of winning a fight then an iron guy. Thus making the chances for both players unequal which would upset quite some people in my opinion.

I believe we wouldn't care so much about getting B*T raped all the time by premium guys who have been hardcore skill boosting for many months aslong as we 'know' we could achieve the same if we put the same time in it. Always knowing that you will never reach to point of equality in pvp micht be the reason why we hate premiums so much for there god like combat style.

And yes, is it SUCH a big sacrifice to only globalise the usage of diamond armour or disable it from premium aswel???
I have full confident that there are many features that can be added to the premium system that makes it just as desireble as it is with the diamond armour perk. (Without touching the balance of pvp).;)
 
Rooseus said:
Diamond armor however, is a part of vanilla minecraft which everyone should be able to experience.
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There's a Singleplayer button you know.


Ulumulu didn't entirely explain the full truth by behind diamond armor for Premiums. So I will summarize them quickly.
  • We want to avoid having the entire server run around in diamond armor. Cyan tin cans everywhere are not apealing to look at.
  • If there was a tier armor higher than diamond, we would have made that one premium only.
  • Premiums deserve to be stronger than non premiums.
Some people tend to forget quickly how the luxury of Sharding and the existance of many MassiveCraft features would not have been possible if we had to rely on players donating for the sake of donating. The last poll taken pointed out that less than 10% of the premiums would donate even if there were no perks, and even so I made the assumption half of them are lying because they don't want to admit to the truth themselves.
 
I am not sure either but i believe its illigal to make profit of from the content of a game made by others than yourself. Much like copying minecraft and selling it yourself. or features of minecraft which were created by its official makers. Something with copyright perhaps???(bandit)
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For the last time No it is not Illegal. and if using vanilla minecraft code for profit was illegal EVERY server that charged money would be illegal.
 
MonMarty said:
You make it sound very dramatic, but in all honesty the amount of people that have posted on this issue are of such a tiny microscopic fraction of the community's playerbase that it would be silly to "have a serious discussion about it".
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What about the number of people complaining out of all the active players who post on the forums? As with any popular server, I bet large portion of the server is just newbies who don't even know about the forums.
 
Rabbidfan236 said:
What about the number of people complaining out of all the active players who post on the forums? As with any popular server, I bet large portion of the server is just newbies who don't even know about the forums.
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You mean out of the 2,300+ accounts and 300+ active daily posters?

A lot of players lack perspective. Just because someone is famous in their own clique and has 1000+ posts under their name doesn't make their opinion any more valid than "A newbie that doesn't even know about the forum". All of them play on the server and all of them deserve equal attention and treatment, a least as far as we can give it.
 
Emperor_max said:
I am not sure either but i believe its illigal to make profit of from the content of a game made by others than yourself. Much like copying minecraft and selling it yourself. or features of minecraft which were created by its official makers. Something with copyright perhaps???(bandit)
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Premium is for Donating, you are not buying anything.
 
MonMarty said:
You mean out of the 2,300+ accounts and 300+ active daily posters?

A lot of players lack perspective. Just because someone is famous in their own clique and has 1000+ posts under their name doesn't make their opinion any more valid than "A newbie that doesn't even know about the forum". All of them play on the server and all of them deserve equal attention and treatment, a least as far as we can give it.
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Then until you take everyone on the server and somehow force them all to state their opinion, you shouldn't say how important of a matter this is.
 
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