Archived A Change To Faction Pricing

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Tokuu

Tokuu

Dvorin Onyxbeard, Belegostian Elder
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Quite recently, there has been a considerable drop in the number of new players sticking with the factions worlds, either spending 100% of their time within Regalia or just leaving the server for good. Neither of those last two options lead to a healthy MassiveCraft with sustained longevity, and I, and a number of other players, believe this is partially down to the decrease in faction pricing to 100r.

I know this can be somewhat of a controversial issue, as I know everyone who plays wants to lead a faction with their friends, and become the next Tyberia, Enigma or Asteria with 200+ members, but quite honestly without proper dedication, that will not happen.

With the number of new factions shooting up around the place, the more inexperienced players suddenly have a grasp on power. Without knowledge of darkrooms, or any form of PvP, or lore to go with supposed RP factions, they have land to call their own. And they build a small holding, and all is wonderful for a while, until they get raided. And they lose their diamonds, or their building materials. And without a faction to back them up, they have no means of recovering them. This drives people away from the survival worlds, and potentially away from the server.

So, to the point in hand. I believe that factions should return to the old pricing of 2000r to be able to found your own place. This, in part, is due to the fact that any player can get 100 regals per day just by going to Regalia, plus anything extra gained from hard work can easily amount to the 2000 regals needed. It is also, and perhaps moreso, to stop inexperienced players from holding factions. The players who will make it as a leader will need to be dedicated and strong willed. These kinds of people will, upon joining, be happy to join a preexisting faction and make it their home, thus learning from already experienced players, and coming to grips with the unique features of MassiveCraft faster, alongside making friends experienced in both RP and PvP, bringing them into both sides of a somewhat divided server.

This keeps people active, as getting the 2000r takes a small amount of dedication, and gives the leader of said new factions an actual status. It makes people feel important again, and not just own something which any old player can have from just one single day on the server.
 
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pokyug said:
Mergers hardly ever work, Players want to be in control, and most times they have no incentive to join anyways.

Here's the thing. Youre vouching for a broken system. We need a new system, because the old one isn't going to cut it.
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The faction I'm in is getting ready to have a smaller faction merge into it. Mergers do work, you just have to come to the right deal to make them work.

Trust me, I'm not vouching for the current system. I know aspects of it don't work.I've suggested changes in the past just like you have, and I don't think (to the best of my knowledge, I could be wrong) that any were implemented or taken into consideration. I know we need new solutions to age old problems, but there's so many problems to fix that I'm just so damn tired of suggesting solutions to said problems, getting player feedback, but then my solutions fall on deaf ears when it comes to convincing the people that matter.
 
pokyug said:
I already have a plan for a new system 2 years ago, the issue isn't coming up with one. The issue is staff actually wanting to listen to that idea.
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Staff does listen as we have proof of their replies in this very thread. Agreeing with you and taking your ideas into consideration are two different things and you're confusing them. They do take our ideas into consideration. That doesn't mean they will come to the same conclusion as players. Trying to remedy all the kinks that different players with different priorities playing on the same server as well as working with wrenches thrown into the mix from Mojang isn't easily remedied once the server is already up and running with what they originally thought was going to work. All the planning and time taken to create a system that distributed lore and voting rewards not to mention all the other unique and creative things this server has going on is amazing and reflects a group of staff that does care and put in a ton of work.

Knyxor said:
This is why I think the job island thing they're making and the NPC they have now are such bad ideas. Just removes incentive for people to use the survival worlds at all. This is the server that Factions originates from, yet Factions/Survival is just a tacked on gamemode. You can check the players in all the worlds, I can pretty much guarantee you that Regalia will have over twice the people online than what every other world has combined. Anything that separates the server into these divided 'gamemodes' is just unhealthy in my opinion.
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I agree, this does enable players to separate into whichever thing they are most comfortable with and that may not be the best if the goal is to get everyone fraternizing. At the same time we do have players who feel as if they are being forced into pvp for hours of what they thought would be enjoyable free time spent on the server with their friends. All someone seems to need to do is be sarcastic or annoying to the wrong person and suddenly there's a war and frenzy of raid spam in ally chat. Pvp is it's own worst enemy in these scenarios and with the flaming in gchat it's easy for victims to paint pvpers as bullies who are simply bored and expect unwilling players to entertain them instead of finding other ways to entertain themselves. Even within the pvp community there is so much in-fighting and smack talk about traps being used or people not bringing weapons (so it's a waste of time with no prize) or some group having the upper hand at their base so it's not fair etc. It goes on and on. Some pvpers themselves want to pick and choose their own venue and make their own rules about where they fight. Some pvpers expect pvp to pay for itself in god weapons. If pvp is a truely a player's way to have fun on the server then why all the restrictions? I find it rather hypocritical to not want to risk anything if you think there's no reward but get upset when others who know they won't win don't want to pvp and lose all their things. In short, with the large amount of players wanting to leave that drama, I can see the need for what currently exists. I don't necessarily view these "divided gamemodes" as a true separation but a compromise. Also, your own statement about the amount of players in Regalia is exactly why the server is evolving.

I have been playing here only 5months so I can't know what the "glory days" of the server were like. But the thing is, the player base that has evolved to where we are now is just...well it is what it is. We can chill and change along with it and make the best of what we have going presently because that is how life works. I don't have grand memories of what was to miss and lament, but I enjoy what the server has to offer currently. If all we're going to do is wait for change to supply our happiness we're already losing half the battle. All that does is waste the present on our illusions or expectations of reality. I say do what you have fun doing and do it within the limits of what's available. Find ways to reach out to other players and figure out a compromise so that they will align their priorities with yours. That's how you keep moving forward. Make your own fun.
 
pokyug said:
"Consideration" = Taking ideas and smashing them into a thousand peices.
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I have my own thoughts on that issue.

There is consideration, it's just that I've never personally seen any constructive criticism in any idea thread involving changes to PvP or changes to the survival worlds. Go look at any post from the past year or so, and usually the first post from staff involves them pointing out any little flaw, or why a part of it is hard or impossible to implement. I'm not saying they should sugar coat their thoughts on ideas or try not to "hurt players' feelings" but when there's hardly ever any constructive criticism, many players probably feel as if their ideas are just getting trashed.
 
Many times I see staff asking for input in-game as well as on the forums for various things they are trying to implement. The most recent ones I remember were about voting for KOTHs and pvp hit registration help from players. Also, if there are flaws within an idea or if they are too difficult/impossible to implement, I don't think that it's unreasonable to reject the idea while explaining why. That seems normal to me. I've been on servers where they don't even bother to explain. As far as constructive criticism, I think staff deals with more than their fair share of unhelpful criticism/complaints and flat out rude comments over server issues or changes. Some, possibly even in this very thread. In the face of that for the most part they stay pretty patient and try their best to explain the whys and why nots. It's not an easy job and although there is always room for improvement, I'm not sure if some of you aren't taking for granted or not realizing how much better the staff is here compared to other servers. Anyway, this is getting off-topic at this point. Probs my fault...if anyone wants to dm me and debate something more, feel free and I'll do the same. Thanks and sorry if I've upset anyone.
 
Assuming the economy isn't going to return to its previous state, I think 5000r is fine.
 
I joined just after Teled was released. Back then the price of a god axe was around 200r as opposed to the 100r or even less you can get one for now. Pretty much before they made voting the main source of money.
 
Well hopefully Job Island will revert it to some degree. With Job Island you will have to work for your money no matter who you are.
 
Zacatero said:
Define "Previous state" because it has has gone up and down in the past
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Honestly, all do respect I have no idea what you mean by "up and down". MassiveCraft's economy has only gone down for the past 3 years and recently went down an even steeper slope with the release of Gifts4All. It's just the fact that more god weapons were brought into circulation, and because they are arguably the most valuable items, lowered the price of all other items as well.

FlamingSock said:
I joined just after Teled was released. Back then the price of a god axe was around 200r as opposed to the 100r or even less you can get one for now. Pretty much before they made voting the main source of money.
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You'd be lucky to get even 100r now. Used to be that god weapons were upwards of 300-350, and that was without unbreaking 3. Now there is too large of an influx of god gear, and it can be used and thrown away like a toy.
 
BenRekt said:
Honestly, all do respect I have no idea what you mean by "up and down". MassiveCraft's economy has only gone down for the past 3 years and recently went down an even steeper slope with the release of Gifts4All. It's just the fact that more god weapons were brought into circulation, and because they are arguably the most valuable items, lowered the price of all other items as well.



You'd be lucky to get even 100r now. Used to be that god weapons were upwards of 300-350, and that was without unbreaking 3. Now there is too large of an influx of god gear, and it can be used and thrown away like a toy.
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Armor is even more screwed lol. At least people drop weapons when they die and some people don't have a lot so they go buy a new one. Honestly, I wasn't involved much in the economy several years ago, but I seem to remember armor going for like 4-500 a piece. New pieces are so unneeded, you can literally sell them for 50r and you'll struggle to get rid of them.
 
I don't see how raising faction prices would make people stay longer I doubt it would have much effect in that regard at all. On the other hand it might raise the quality of players that join Massive and of factions that are created. That's good at least.
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
I don't see how raising faction prices would make people stay longer I doubt it would have much effect in that regard at all.
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Its not direct in this regard. If you remember that one of the reasons a new player never comes back, is that they made a faction and have no godly idea how to manage it or how the server works. Then raising the faction creation price to something that a new player cant immediatly obtain will allow them to join an existing faction instead, learn how the server and community operates, and then later once they actually have enough money, they can start a successful faction since they know how.
 
Zacatero said:
Its not direct in this regard. If you remember that one of the reasons a new player never comes back, is that they made a faction and have no godly idea how to manage it or how the server works. Then raising the faction creation price to something that a new player cant immediatly obtain will allow them to join an existing faction instead, learn how the server and community operates, and then later once they actually have enough money, they can start a successful faction since they know how.
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This
 
Zacatero said:
Its not direct in this regard. If you remember that one of the reasons a new player never comes back, is that they made a faction and have no godly idea how to manage it or how the server works. Then raising the faction creation price to something that a new player cant immediatly obtain will allow them to join an existing faction instead, learn how the server and community operates, and then later once they actually have enough money, they can start a successful faction since they know how.
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This is entirely what I've been getting at throughout this thread, yet people still can't understand it. Thank you, @Zacatero
 
It feels like all these decisions are being made in favor of new factions.. claimnear being reduced, the low price, the world limit.. But once those factions become larger and defined... they dont matter.
 
Zacatero said:
It feels like all these decisions are being made in favor of new factions.. claimnear being reduced, the low price, the world limit.. But once those factions become larger and defined... they dont matter.
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The server is the home of the factions plugin, but quite honestly it just feels like a tiny, botched addition to the server right now. Why do you think more people are in Regalia than any survival world at any given point? Factions should be a focal point, but they've been neglected because they're no longer something to work toward, they are simply something people can get as soon as they log in, thus the faction created holds no meaning to them whatsoever
 
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i personally have not read every post in this thread, although it seems rather repetitive.
in response to you toku, i agree that it sucks that you can start a faction by clicking something then typing a command your first day... i think the faction is something to be worked toward, and shouldn't be owned by someone that probably hasn't visited the website more than twice.

in response to you @MonMarty , its a shame that so many players, even donators, quit so early. I agree with your argument that we want something we worked hard to get to stay hard to get (yes, i bought my faction before the price was lowered). i also wonder about what other motive we have for wanting smaller, temporary factions to stop being created. it seems we just want more members.

frankly, after thinking about this, there are two problems with these smaller facs:
1. they take away members from actual factions.
2. they take up space.

thinking about this, and keeping in mind that players SHOULD be able to create a faction rather easily, i suggest moving the faction price up to maybe 500r or even 300r. this would require the player to log on at least 3-5 times, and it would be easy enough that players will think: "oh, im pretty close, better stick to it!" this may even lead to a slight increase of donaters, as players will be held onto playing for another 3-5 days, if not more, but not be discouraged. i have another idea about factions taking up space, however i will make another post about it.
 
Faction pricing is going up, it was decided last meeting. We plan to immediately raise it to 500 Regals when we have the chance, though that may be a little while from now still. I know many people will call this too little, but I think a 5x increase is already a major improvement.

Also planned:
  • Map claim cap
  • Increasing faction tax
 
MonMarty said:
Faction pricing is going up, it was decided last meeting. We plan to immediately raise it to 500 Regals when we have the chance, though that may be a little while from now still. I know many people will call this too little, but I think a 5x increase is already a major improvement.

Also planned:
  • Map claim cap
  • Increasing faction tax
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The big concern was that it needed to be a cost that cant be immediatly obtained by a new player, so 500 is very reasonable. Thank you.
 
Zacatero said:
The big concern was that it needed to be a cost that cant be immediatly obtained by a new player, so 500 is very reasonable. Thank you.
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The calculation was based on the idea that 5 players should be able to make a faction on day 1, 3 players on day 2, and solo players should spend a week in an existing faction.
 
I really don't know what to think O' ye old situation'ination so Imma just write some stuff below
Ideas:new players leave for most likely many reasons
- When I started I ran into several problems
-I joined tyberia and didn't really find the freedom that I was looking for building wise so I went into the forest and made a cabin. I didn't know about land regen so I put most of my things in it.
-terrain regen ruined my stuff
-I went into the forest to explore and got killed by over-buffed mobs
-I had NO idea anything about the market or money AT ALL
-The rules seemed very undefined and I found myself braking them often and having to rush to fix my mistakes in fear of ban/losing stuff
-I had no idea what a lore item was or what roleplay was(thats a problem in itself)
-I didn't have enough time in the day to manage my account and played WAY too much
-Most of my friends became inactive or got banned
-I couldn't figure out the shop system (thanks zactero)
-I didn't really want to make a faction one bit because this was my first factions server and I didn't really care
NOTICE I'VE ONLY PLAYED FOR ABOUT 2 MONTHS
 
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I'd be curious about the statistics involving new member retention, donation frequency/ % of new members who donate/ overall average (during busy hours) player count from the weeks/ months prior to the price change, and the months immediately following. The numbers speak louder than any forum argument. But this issue has a direct affect upon the success of the server. Having those numbers publicly available, would really shut down any premise for bias argument, no one... of intelligence... argues a dying case when the numbers and facts speak to a different story.

Mon, are those numbers on record? If so would the team be willing to make them public? I'm super curious!

Thanks!
 
I think we need apole addressing the discouragements to stay on massive
 
Cpt_Manturay said:
I think we need apole addressing the discouragements to stay on massive
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From a PvPer / Survival player standpoint, the main reason people are leaving is extremely simple. There's nothing to work towards. Nothing to work towards --> nothing to do --> no point in playing.

I think that the steps @MonMarty introduced, like raising taxes and the faction prices, are a step in the right direction.
 
Were it that I could code, I would do all the fun stuff like code an Empire hook for Factions or junk like that. But I can't code for shit. So there's that. I have half on half considered trying to learn how to code just to do simple things so we don't need to ask Cay for those, but that takes time, and that time has to be taken from elsewhere:
  • World production
  • Lore Writing
  • Event Hosting
  • Progression Post Writing
  • Department Management
  • Regalian House Rentals
  • Regalian Construction
  • My own Free time
I'm not even sure how other servers provide end game content for survivalists and factioners, any suggestions?
 
MonMarty said:
Were it that I could code, I would do all the fun stuff like code an Empire hook for Factions or junk like that. But I can't code for shit. So there's that. I have half on half considered trying to learn how to code just to do simple things so we don't need to ask Cay for those, but that takes time, and that time has to be taken from elsewhere:
  • World production
  • Lore Writing
  • Event Hosting
  • Progression Post Writing
  • Department Management
  • Regalian House Rentals
  • Regalian Construction
  • My own Free time
I'm not even sure how other servers provide end game content for survivalists and factioners, any suggestions?
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Most pvp servers basically do this by resetting everything and having an entirely new map every 1-3 months. Obviously this isn't really practical for massive.
 
jes_ said:
Most pvp servers basically do this by resetting everything and having an entirely new map every 1-3 months. Obviously this isn't really practical for massive.
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Empires is always something we've asked for, but I understand that's a large chunk of work for a single coder.
What really used to make Roleplayers stick to the survival worlds, however, was (admittedly this was years ago, but still one of my favourite things about the server) that faction events used to influence the lore. Factions weren't completely separate from RP, and were integrated to the point where they could somewhat influence what went on. Speaking as a PvPer, that was actually pretty unique and fun. Yes, no faction could ever challenge Regalia, but having that influence come through from the factions worlds should entice more roleplayers to pick up PvP or just simply grow a faction again. There used to be countless active RP / building factions around, now almost all of them simply RP in Regalia, as they have no incentive to be in the survival worlds. But perhaps this should be on a separate thread altogether
 
MonMarty said:
Were it that I could code, I would do all the fun stuff like code an Empire hook for Factions or junk like that. But I can't code for shit. So there's that. I have half on half considered trying to learn how to code just to do simple things so we don't need to ask Cay for those, but that takes time, and that time has to be taken from elsewhere:
  • World production
  • Lore Writing
  • Event Hosting
  • Progression Post Writing
  • Department Management
  • Regalian House Rentals
  • Regalian Construction
  • My own Free time
I'm not even sure how other servers provide end game content for survivalists and factioners, any suggestions?
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I believe just TONS of tellraws and TONS testfors, maybe we could have a MAJOR boss, that YOU spawn(not naturally spawn), that gives you like TONS of lore items.
 
Cpt_Manturay said:
I believe just TONS of tellraws and TONS testfors, maybe we could have a MAJOR boss, that YOU spawn(not naturally spawn), that gives you like TONS of lore items.
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vanilla also just added that "haunted mansion" in which we could add more naturally-generating structures/homes/ruins due to us not having much,

Treasure hunting would also help quite a bit, maybe underground ancient temples with special mobs in it we could have this place have unbreakable blocks so it would be an actual challenge, mob spawners inside, regening chests etc. I think this would add more aspect to game goals
 
Cpt_Manturay said:
vanilla also just added that "haunted mansion" in which we could add more naturally-generating structures/homes/ruins due to us not having much,

Treasure hunting would also help quite a bit, maybe underground ancient temples with special mobs in it we could have this place have unbreakable blocks so it would be an actual challenge, mob spawners inside, regening chests etc. I think this would add more aspect to game goals
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also side question:when we update to 1.12(if we do) will the idol thing be craftable?
 
One of the underlying reasons for wanting to change faction prices is to make existing factions larger. And if we had a faction canonization part of the wiki, it will make factions more appealig to roleplayers
 
MonMarty said:
Were it that I could code, I would do all the fun stuff like code an Empire hook for Factions or junk like that. But I can't code for shit. So there's that. I have half on half considered trying to learn how to code just to do simple things so we don't need to ask Cay for those, but that takes time, and that time has to be taken from elsewhere:
  • World production
  • Lore Writing
  • Event Hosting
  • Progression Post Writing
  • Department Management
  • Regalian House Rentals
  • Regalian Construction
  • My own Free time
I'm not even sure how other servers provide end game content for survivalists and factioners, any suggestions?
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jes_ said:
Most pvp servers basically do this by resetting everything and having an entirely new map every 1-3 months. Obviously this isn't really practical for massive.
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I know you rejected the idea of doing this when I proposed it a few months back, but I honestly believe it would bring a shit ton of people back, and make a ton of people active again (I know I would be). The economy would then be completely fresh, god armor supplies and such would be reset and people would have many goals to work to. Not to mention the lag reduction from having a bunch of unused factions disappear along with the items in them. I think it would also be interesting if instead of completely resetting the map, large and beautiful factions, like Mithril for example, could instead be turned into lore spots that people could use to RP at. However as Jes said, I also understand that it wouldn't be a great idea just because many of the RPers would probably end up leaving the server. I totally understand the probability of this happening is probably around 1 in a million but I still like to entertain the idea.
 
MonMarty said:
I'm not even sure how other servers provide end game content for survivalists and factioners, any suggestions?
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SilverWind was a great idea that you came up with but had to put it off to the side due to the EULA being enforced. I think it would be fantastic if implemented properly.

Cpt_Manturay said:
vanilla also just added that "haunted mansion" in which we could add more naturally-generating structures/homes/ruins due to us not having much,

Treasure hunting would also help quite a bit, maybe underground ancient temples with special mobs in it we could have this place have unbreakable blocks so it would be an actual challenge, mob spawners inside, regening chests etc. I think this would add more aspect to game goals
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No offense but fighting mobs is rarely ever fun and generally just turns into a grindy click-fest.
 
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