Archived A Change To Faction Pricing

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Tokuu

Tokuu

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Quite recently, there has been a considerable drop in the number of new players sticking with the factions worlds, either spending 100% of their time within Regalia or just leaving the server for good. Neither of those last two options lead to a healthy MassiveCraft with sustained longevity, and I, and a number of other players, believe this is partially down to the decrease in faction pricing to 100r.

I know this can be somewhat of a controversial issue, as I know everyone who plays wants to lead a faction with their friends, and become the next Tyberia, Enigma or Asteria with 200+ members, but quite honestly without proper dedication, that will not happen.

With the number of new factions shooting up around the place, the more inexperienced players suddenly have a grasp on power. Without knowledge of darkrooms, or any form of PvP, or lore to go with supposed RP factions, they have land to call their own. And they build a small holding, and all is wonderful for a while, until they get raided. And they lose their diamonds, or their building materials. And without a faction to back them up, they have no means of recovering them. This drives people away from the survival worlds, and potentially away from the server.

So, to the point in hand. I believe that factions should return to the old pricing of 2000r to be able to found your own place. This, in part, is due to the fact that any player can get 100 regals per day just by going to Regalia, plus anything extra gained from hard work can easily amount to the 2000 regals needed. It is also, and perhaps moreso, to stop inexperienced players from holding factions. The players who will make it as a leader will need to be dedicated and strong willed. These kinds of people will, upon joining, be happy to join a preexisting faction and make it their home, thus learning from already experienced players, and coming to grips with the unique features of MassiveCraft faster, alongside making friends experienced in both RP and PvP, bringing them into both sides of a somewhat divided server.

This keeps people active, as getting the 2000r takes a small amount of dedication, and gives the leader of said new factions an actual status. It makes people feel important again, and not just own something which any old player can have from just one single day on the server.
 
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BenRekt said:
There are no more fights that actually make me feel like I am competing with someone else because people constantly switch from faction to faction and instead of huge, epic battles most wars are fought between 4-5 people at most.
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Try 0 people. The only active PvP'ers are in Raptum and the only targets we have are Roleplay factions and they never fight back.

(Besides like 2 member of wolves)
 
Zacatero said:
I totally am an instant gratification player, just not here.

Massive is not an instant gratification server. No minigames no constant prizes. Massive requires a lot of self initiative to have fun. Its not quick then its over. It makes zero sense to me why people would want to make decisions in favor of instant gratification players, when this server does not function that way.
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Exactly. I hear so much talk about growing the community, and how things need to be quick and instantly fun. I have news for you. YOU CANNOT GROW THIS COMMUNITY WITHOUT TURNING MASSIVE INTO A DIFFERENT SERVER. If you want instant gratification, go to Mineplex! If you want creative, join a creative server! If you want a server that plays like a game of monopoly, join Massive! This server does not find its fun in its instant rewards. It finds it fun in investment, in actively shaping your own experience. Forming alliances, making enemies etc. Massive will grow from the efforts of the current community: US. Not by catering to an outside one.
 
MonMarty said:
This sort of response grinds my gears. The whole idea that the server will suddenly get a bigger community sense when we force new players to join existing factions is a bleak assumption at best. Literally any argument made in favor of it is from personal bias. "I did this, therefor they can too". "It worked fine for me, so it will work fine for them". This simply won't do with risk assessment.

Cayorion did donation intake research a while back (long while, but I presume the demographic analysis remained consistent) in which it was pointed out that 60% of all server donations are made in the first 3 days. What's even more tragic in this context is that somewhere between 7 to 8 out of 10 donations come from players who play on the server no more than 2 months, and that is even a ceiling cap. I think there was some data that suggested that some large quantity made donations and quit the server really quickly.

The idea that the long term donators are the power engine behind the server in terms of financial contributions has been false since the start. Granted, in quantity over longer periods of time they donate a large amount of stable income, but there are only very very few people who are consistent donators, that quota among staff is even small.

MassiveCraft is not an instant gratification server, but we have long been making moves to appeal more to those people. It may be an uncomfortable though or reality to some, but those "one day fly" factions that survive for a few weeks and then die out (at least at the time of research gathering) were the major source of income for the server. To me this entire thread is just a smokescreen distraction from the true issue that sabotages new player investment: the fact that factions have unlimited base potential on every new map that we release for the purpose of providing more space exactly for the new players.

I took a look at the data of last weekend and of the 320 unique new players that joined, only 53 came back the next day. The lack of community sense or long term faction investment really isn't the issue. The issue is that MassiveCraft has a bloated learning curve due to badly implemented integrations in early game tutorials, as well as the fact that players can literally go nowhere if they want to go out on their own or just with their friends because every map is always over claimed with unnecessary bases. Like even my own faction of which I am officer, Mithril, has like 600 odd chunks claimed+10 chunk radius around is in 3 separate worlds to my knowledge. Why? All the members only roleplay in Regalia anyway. And you bet as soon as a new world comes out the faction will claim a new plot of land only to do nothing with it for half a year.

This thread continues to generate a lot of pseudo intellect in terms of knowledge, pretty much all of it is conjunction and assumption dosed with heavy self bias. We could consider raising the Faction price above what we deem appropriate (we are planning a price hike in our general economic re-assessment following the release of Job-Island which will replace the 100 Regal quest in spawn and shift the income down a bit) but in order for that to take place there needs to be at least one valid argument that is entrenched in fact instead of just opinion. I can't buy anything with opinions except huge uncertainty and never ending risk to the continued survival of the server as well as my own livelihood.

Aggressive action is planned to ease the burden on world population, but we haven't put the details together yet. We'll release more information when we have it.
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Can it at least be higher than 100. I think its very beneficial for the server to set it up for everybody to know what they are doing before making a faction.. which even making it 500r would do
 
MonMarty said:
This sort of response grinds my gears. The whole idea that the server will suddenly get a bigger community sense when we force new players to join existing factions is a bleak assumption at best. Literally any argument made in favor of it is from personal bias. "I did this, therefor they can too". "It worked fine for me, so it will work fine for them". This simply won't do with risk assessment.

Cayorion did donation intake research a while back (long while, but I presume the demographic analysis remained consistent) in which it was pointed out that 60% of all server donations are made in the first 3 days. What's even more tragic in this context is that somewhere between 7 to 8 out of 10 donations come from players who play on the server no more than 2 months, and that is even a ceiling cap. I think there was some data that suggested that some large quantity made donations and quit the server really quickly.

The idea that the long term donators are the power engine behind the server in terms of financial contributions has been false since the start. Granted, in quantity over longer periods of time they donate a large amount of stable income, but there are only very very few people who are consistent donators, that quota among staff is even small.

MassiveCraft is not an instant gratification server, but we have long been making moves to appeal more to those people. It may be an uncomfortable though or reality to some, but those "one day fly" factions that survive for a few weeks and then die out (at least at the time of research gathering) were the major source of income for the server. To me this entire thread is just a smokescreen distraction from the true issue that sabotages new player investment: the fact that factions have unlimited base potential on every new map that we release for the purpose of providing more space exactly for the new players.

I took a look at the data of last weekend and of the 320 unique new players that joined, only 53 came back the next day. The lack of community sense or long term faction investment really isn't the issue. The issue is that MassiveCraft has a bloated learning curve due to badly implemented integrations in early game tutorials, as well as the fact that players can literally go nowhere if they want to go out on their own or just with their friends because every map is always over claimed with unnecessary bases. Like even my own faction of which I am officer, Mithril, has like 600 odd chunks claimed+10 chunk radius around is in 3 separate worlds to my knowledge. Why? All the members only roleplay in Regalia anyway. And you bet as soon as a new world comes out the faction will claim a new plot of land only to do nothing with it for half a year.

This thread continues to generate a lot of pseudo intellect in terms of knowledge, pretty much all of it is conjunction and assumption dosed with heavy self bias. We could consider raising the Faction price above what we deem appropriate (we are planning a price hike in our general economic re-assessment following the release of Job-Island which will replace the 100 Regal quest in spawn and shift the income down a bit) but in order for that to take place there needs to be at least one valid argument that is entrenched in fact instead of just opinion. I can't buy anything with opinions except huge uncertainty and never ending risk to the continued survival of the server as well as my own livelihood.

Aggressive action is planned to ease the burden on world population, but we haven't put the details together yet. We'll release more information when we have it.
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I was never here for the 2000r faction requirement. So I don't know what that was like, but I can see the pros of such a system. I want to see the server grow, I really do. I get sort of depressed seeing factions inactive. As for self bias, that is all we have. Everyone acts out of bias for something, we are human and can't escape that. My bias is of course to my self, I want to enjoy the server, and I think that I can enjoy it more if we make an effort to bring the community closer in terms of bringing in new players. No offense, but I am bored of some ya'll's ugly faces. I want some fresh meat. The method of attaining that may not be in any kind of change to factions, but I believe that the way we introduce players to the server will. I think a really in depth tutorial system would be great, perhaps not on all the commands, but basically on what the server is all about, and what our goals are. I think introduction is key... and then release them.

I see Marty's viewpoint, and he states it very well. So I will slightly change my own. Introduction, introduction, introduction, In a creative and fun way. Better quests, a help world where experienced player can go to teach new players (that one is a reach). Introduction.
 
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If my math holds up 83% of the players who joined on saturday did not return to the server on sunday. THAT problem needs to be solved first and forcing players into existing factions is not a solution there.
 
also for whatever reason I have a tendency to act really gay type femininely? people assume I'm a woman all the time and it's weird
 
BenRekt said:
I miss that days of factions like Thaelyn, that were massive (no pun intended) recruiting super powers with at least hundred members constantly active in roleplay, PvP and all the other great aspects, both in Minecraft and MassiveCraft.
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I miss Yapudetofu, Joshy, Funkyadhesive and Jla :P
 
Just raise the price of making a faction listen to me man has got all the knownledge about shiz like this fam i once was a dank dinosaur 65 million year agos i know what is up fam you got me
 
MonMarty said:
This sort of response grinds my gears. The whole idea that the server will suddenly get a bigger community sense when we force new players to join existing factions is a bleak assumption at best. Literally any argument made in favor of it is from personal bias. "I did this, therefor they can too". "It worked fine for me, so it will work fine for them". This simply won't do with risk assessment.

Cayorion did donation intake research a while back (long while, but I presume the demographic analysis remained consistent) in which it was pointed out that 60% of all server donations are made in the first 3 days. What's even more tragic in this context is that somewhere between 7 to 8 out of 10 donations come from players who play on the server no more than 2 months, and that is even a ceiling cap. I think there was some data that suggested that some large quantity made donations and quit the server really quickly.

The idea that the long term donators are the power engine behind the server in terms of financial contributions has been false since the start. Granted, in quantity over longer periods of time they donate a large amount of stable income, but there are only very very few people who are consistent donators, that quota among staff is even small.

MassiveCraft is not an instant gratification server, but we have long been making moves to appeal more to those people. It may be an uncomfortable though or reality to some, but those "one day fly" factions that survive for a few weeks and then die out (at least at the time of research gathering) were the major source of income for the server. To me this entire thread is just a smokescreen distraction from the true issue that sabotages new player investment: the fact that factions have unlimited base potential on every new map that we release for the purpose of providing more space exactly for the new players.

I took a look at the data of last weekend and of the 320 unique new players that joined, only 53 came back the next day. The lack of community sense or long term faction investment really isn't the issue. The issue is that MassiveCraft has a bloated learning curve due to badly implemented integrations in early game tutorials, as well as the fact that players can literally go nowhere if they want to go out on their own or just with their friends because every map is always over claimed with unnecessary bases. Like even my own faction of which I am officer, Mithril, has like 600 odd chunks claimed+10 chunk radius around is in 3 separate worlds to my knowledge. Why? All the members only roleplay in Regalia anyway. And you bet as soon as a new world comes out the faction will claim a new plot of land only to do nothing with it for half a year.

This thread continues to generate a lot of pseudo intellect in terms of knowledge, pretty much all of it is conjunction and assumption dosed with heavy self bias. We could consider raising the Faction price above what we deem appropriate (we are planning a price hike in our general economic re-assessment following the release of Job-Island which will replace the 100 Regal quest in spawn and shift the income down a bit) but in order for that to take place there needs to be at least one valid argument that is entrenched in fact instead of just opinion. I can't buy anything with opinions except huge uncertainty and never ending risk to the continued survival of the server as well as my own livelihood.

Aggressive action is planned to ease the burden on world population, but we haven't put the details together yet. We'll release more information when we have it.
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https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...nd-thoughts-for-the-future.45099/#post-543936
Not the only one doing the math and seeing this problem. If you actually think it's an issue you should talk to me about it as I've seen it happening for years. The economy is already stagnant due to hyper inflation, so job island is only a fallacy for a better economic structure.
 
I think the perhaps fixing the economy should happen after job island is released and in full swing.
 
The changes that have been made to the server has successfully destroyed any empires that have been created, survivalists became more dormant and pvp has lost its flare. This is the real issue with massivecraft that we need to address. Which is hard because the Massivecraft community, is a bunch of Roleplayers. This server started out as a factions server, ended up a roleplay server. How TF did this happen? I'll tell you how.

The redevelopment of factions was taken at the worst approach, that approach was to make players completely independent and level grounded. Roleplayers almost completely taken out of the picture. Mcmmo was nerfed to a point where mcmmo isn't interesting anymore. On top of that there is zero incentive to create an empire, zero incentive to have allies. Actually no incentive to need anyone on the server or buy premium. The result is a bunch of noobs in their own shell, seperated completely from the community and not supporting it because they don't need it.

That is what it has become and it disgusts me on so many levels. I only play, because I'm hoping for some good change. Which hasn't happened in years.

Please tell me that good change is coming. I'm tired of trying to be nice and fluffy about my dislike for the new changes.
 
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pokyug said:
The changes that have been made to the server has successfully destroyed any empires that have been created, survivalists became more dormant and pvp has lost its flare. This is the real issue with massivecraft that we need to address. Which is hard because the Massivecraft community, is a bunch of Roleplayers. This server started out as a factions server, ended up a roleplay server. How TF did this happen? I'll tell you how.

The redevelopment of factions was taken at the worst approach, that approach was to make players completely independent and level grounded. Roleplayers almost completely taken out of the picture. Mcmmo was nerfed to a point where mcmmo isn't interesting anymore. On top of that there is zero incentive to create an empire, zero incentive to have allies. Actually no incentive to need anyone on the server or buy premium. The result is a bunch of noobs in their own shell, seperated completely from the community and not supporting it because they don't need it.

That is what it has become and it disgusts me on so many levels. I only play, because I'm hoping for some good change. Which hasn't happened in years.

Please tell me that good change is coming. I'm tired of trying to be nice and fluffy about my dislike for the new changes.
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Doesn't help that half the active PvP player base was banned / left because traits were broken and hit reg was garbage.
 
pokyug said:
The changes that have been made to the server has successfully destroyed any empires that have been created, survivalists became more dormant and pvp has lost its flare. This is the real issue with massivecraft that we need to address. Which is hard because the Massivecraft community, is a bunch of Roleplayers. This server started out as a factions server, ended up a roleplay server. How TF did this happen? I'll tell you how.

The redevelopment of factions was taken at the worst approach, that approach was to make players completely independent and level grounded. Roleplayers almost completely taken out of the picture. Mcmmo was nerfed to a point where mcmmo isn't interesting anymore. On top of that there is zero incentive to create an empire, zero incentive to have allies. Actually no incentive to need anyone on the server or buy premium. The result is a bunch of noobs in their own shell, seperated completely from the community and not supporting it because they don't need it.

That is what it has become and it disgusts me on so many levels. I only play, because I'm hoping for some good change. Which hasn't happened in years.

Please tell me that good change is coming. I'm tired of trying to be nice and fluffy about my dislike for the new changes.
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Raptum's Qaliphate was the biggest empire there's been for years. But no one opposed it, so we disbanded it and raided everyone again. Kinda sad though. No one's actually able to oppose us, even though we're smaller than we used to be. Wonder why.
 
The server needs better quality factions to recruit and help introduce new players. I think the best thing for that is factions that do both RP and PvP. A lot of players like the mix. Makes things more interesting. The price should go back up to 2k or at least 1k... Otherwise we're just going to keep having tons of random one chunk claims by people who aren't ever going to play again
 
Tokugawryuu said:
Raptum's Qaliphate was the biggest empire there's been for years. But no one opposed it, so we disbanded it and raided everyone again. Kinda sad though. No one's actually able to oppose us, even though we're smaller than we used to be. Wonder why.
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No one opposed it because there is no support for empires, no incentive to band up against you guys. Especially when people can have an underground unraidable base or go to regalia and ignore you.
 
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pokyug said:
The changes that have been made to the server has successfully destroyed any empires that have been created, survivalists became more dormant and pvp has lost its flare. This is the real issue with massivecraft that we need to address. Which is hard because the Massivecraft community, is a bunch of Roleplayers. This server started out as a factions server, ended up a roleplay server. How TF did this happen? I'll tell you how.

The redevelopment of factions was taken at the worst approach, that approach was to make players completely independent and level grounded. Roleplayers almost completely taken out of the picture. Mcmmo was nerfed to a point where mcmmo isn't interesting anymore. On top of that there is zero incentive to create an empire, zero incentive to have allies. Actually no incentive to need anyone on the server or buy premium. The result is a bunch of noobs in their own shell, seperated completely from the community and not supporting it because they don't need it.

That is what it has become and it disgusts me on so many levels. I only play, because I'm hoping for some good change. Which hasn't happened in years.

Please tell me that good change is coming. I'm tired of trying to be nice and fluffy about my dislike for the new changes.
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This is why I think the job island thing they're making and the NPC they have now are such bad ideas. Just removes incentive for people to use the survival worlds at all. This is the server that Factions originates from, yet Factions/Survival is just a tacked on gamemode. You can check the players in all the worlds, I can pretty much guarantee you that Regalia will have over twice the people online than what every other world has combined. Anything that separates the server into these divided 'gamemodes' is just unhealthy in my opinion.
 
Knyxor said:
This is why I think the job island thing they're making and the NPC they have now are such bad ideas. Just removes incentive for people to use the survival worlds at all. This is the server that Factions originates from, yet Factions/Survival is just a tacked on gamemode. You can check the players in all the worlds, I can pretty much guarantee you that Regalia will have over twice the people online than what every other world has combined. Anything that separates the server into these divided 'gamemodes' is just unhealthy in my opinion.
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I'd agree with this 50 times if I could.
 
MonMarty said:
If my math holds up 83% of the players who joined on saturday did not return to the server on sunday. THAT problem needs to be solved first and forcing players into existing factions is not a solution there.
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I have no idea what I'm talking about but maybe MassiveRestore scared them off?
 
pokyug said:
No one opposed it because there is no support for empires, no incentive to band up against you guys. Especially when people can have an underground unraidable base or go to regalia and ignore you.
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When I first played the server, everything seemed together. Everyone had a grasp for lore, races were entwined with gameplay, people had richer roleplay for their factions. People would actually think about their lore background when building a base. People were always at war. It was fun.

The changes that have been made, undid all that hard work. It was successfully done by separating different players and their preferred playing styles.

They created the pvp kit world to take away pvp from the factions world, they made regalia bigger to take the roleplay out of factions and into regalia/other safe zone worlds. They made questing worlds to take out the rpg in factions and focus that on a different world without pvp or traditional roleplay. They made the creative plot world to take dedicated builders out of factions and let them work in a pvp/questing safe world. Staff have done everything in their power to separate different types of players instead of finding a way for them to work together.

Just think about it for a second, and please tell me if I'm wrong.
 
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Knyxor said:
This is why I think the job island thing they're making and the NPC they have now are such bad ideas.
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I agree with half of this. The NPC in regalia was a bad decision but it was the ONLY decision. only a mere temporary solution til Job Island is ready. And with Job Island, as the staff have previously stated, EVERYBODY, regardless of gamemode, will have to work for their money.
 
pokyug said:
Like I've been saying, the issue is that everyone is ok with separating different players, but they don't work on a way for all players to work together. Think about it for a second.
They created the pvp kit world to take away pvp from the factions world, they made regalia bigger to take the roleplay out of factions and into regalia/other safe zone worlds. They made questing worlds to take out the rpg in factions and focus that on a different world without pvp or traditional roleplay. They made the creative plot world to take dedicated builders out of factions and let them work in a pvp/questing safe world. Staff have done everything in their power to separate different types of players instead of finding a way for them to work together.

Just think about it for a second, and please tell me if I'm wrong.
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I would also agree with this 50 times if I could
 
Sevak said:
The server needs better quality factions to recruit and help introduce new players. I think the best thing for that is factions that do both RP and PvP. A lot of players like the mix. Makes things more interesting. The price should go back up to 2k or at least 1k... Otherwise we're just going to keep having tons of random one chunk claims by people who aren't ever going to play again
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It used to be mostly factions like this years ago. That's when I had a lot of fun, and it's the sort of factions that I started out in. I had fun Pvping with you guys in Deldrimor for example, but I didn't like doing it all the time. But if I go to any other faction(other than the enemy Pvp factions of course), I never get to do it at all. It's possible to have too much of one thing I guess.
 
pokyug said:
Like I've been saying, the issue is that everyone is ok with separating different players, but they don't work on a way for all players to work together. Think about it for a second.
They created the pvp kit world to take away pvp from the factions world, they made regalia bigger to take the roleplay out of factions and into regalia/other safe zone worlds. They made questing worlds to take out the rpg in factions and focus that on a different world without pvp or traditional roleplay. They made the creative plot world to take dedicated builders out of factions and let them work in a pvp/questing safe world. Staff have done everything in their power to separate different types of players instead of finding a way for them to work together.

Just think about it for a second, and please tell me if I'm wrong.
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I remember about a year or more ago, my friends and I were all complaining about a lack of raids. In response we got Kit PvP and KOTHs from PvP but no ideas to improve raids apart from the removal of raid rules. I'm not trying to say that I dislike Kit PvP or KOTHs. I think they're fun on the side but it seems like they've taken a lot more from raiding and we never got a reply on what we were actually complaining about. And I'm not trying to disrespect anyone but its true
 
Zacatero said:
I agree with half of this. The NPC in regalia was a bad decision but it was the ONLY decision. only a mere temporary solution til Job Island is ready. And with Job Island, as the staff have previously stated, EVERYBODY, regardless of gamemode, will have to work for their money.
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No it wasn't. The other solution: Don't give free welfare money to people at all, because there's tons of ways to make money on the server that require a little bit of effort already. Just because people have to leave Regalia to do so doesn't mean everyone is instantly broke. All voting money ever should have been was a nice bonus for supporting the server, not a primary source of income; it didn't need a replacement. That NPC ought to be removed without any replacement as well. How can anyone possibly think that NPC was necessary?
 
pokyug said:
Seemless integration. A factions world with pvp, questing, and roleplay.
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More importantly, the server actually had an economy for gear needed in the survival worlds. If you weren't fighting you were able to actually work and get money that wasn't spawned in from NPCs or by selling lore items that have no value outside of RP.

The community was also quite different, people would defend themselves just because of "virtual honor" if you can call it that. Seems stupid saying it out loud but it's what made the server fun.
 
MonMarty said:
It's always a possibility, question is more of whether it's a viability.

The problem with these kinds of threads is that they emphasize both the "customer's ambiguity" and "Self-bias", in that people who already have X privilege argue in favor of increasing the difficulty of obtaining it, and apply the logic of "I did X and had fun/could do it, therefor everyone should be held by my standard. The drawbacks are irrelevant to these people so it looks like a viable option. While certainly the price of factions did not properly evolve along with the ease of access to Regals, that ends very soon when job island is released, and after that the price can be moderated, but it should never become a price where a player would have to work upwards to two weeks to a month to achieve a faction, even with help of friends.

This server's biggest issue, for all the quality features it possesses over other servers, does not have pull at all. I am working on the new player experience right now to fix these god awful starting quests, but I am 100% disinterested in crippling the hours I am putting in new early-hours implementations by knocking the factions price up to absurd levels, which is too much of a demoralizing factor for the kind of people we need to attract to the server.
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I believe that the simaclariliatibilachatily of the situation has been kemeledundered out of proportion
 
If you believe that there are too many new factions run by uneducated new players, you can do something about it. In my opinion, there are multiple factions on this server that are in a prime position to create new empires by either absolving smaller factions into their own, and teaching the members of the small faction how to play Massive's survival world, or they can accept them as subfactions and teach them that way.

Note: I'm not arguing against the OP's proposed idea, nor am I arguing specifically in favor of it. I'm just saying that for as much that has been expected out of the staff, as much can be expected out of the players. What good would it do to fix what you guys identify as the issues keeping you from making empires if you never find the will to do so?
 
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