Archived A Change To Faction Pricing

[Tokuu]

Quite recently, there has been a considerable drop in the number of new players sticking with the factions worlds, either spending 100% of their time within Regalia or just leaving the server for good. Neither of those last two options lead to a healthy MassiveCraft with sustained longevity, and I, and a number of other players, believe this is partially down to the decrease in faction pricing to 100r.

I know this can be somewhat of a controversial issue, as I know everyone who plays wants to lead a faction with their friends, and become the next Tyberia, Enigma or Asteria with 200+ members, but quite honestly without proper dedication, that will not happen.

With the number of new factions shooting up around the place, the more inexperienced players suddenly have a grasp on power. Without knowledge of darkrooms, or any form of PvP, or lore to go with supposed RP factions, they have land to call their own. And they build a small holding, and all is wonderful for a while, until they get raided. And they lose their diamonds, or their building materials. And without a faction to back them up, they have no means of recovering them. This drives people away from the survival worlds, and potentially away from the server.

So, to the point in hand. I believe that factions should return to the old pricing of 2000r to be able to found your own place. This, in part, is due to the fact that any player can get 100 regals per day just by going to Regalia, plus anything extra gained from hard work can easily amount to the 2000 regals needed. It is also, and perhaps moreso, to stop inexperienced players from holding factions. The players who will make it as a leader will need to be dedicated and strong willed. These kinds of people will, upon joining, be happy to join a preexisting faction and make it their home, thus learning from already experienced players, and coming to grips with the unique features of MassiveCraft faster, alongside making friends experienced in both RP and PvP, bringing them into both sides of a somewhat divided server.

This keeps people active, as getting the 2000r takes a small amount of dedication, and gives the leader of said new factions an actual status. It makes people feel important again, and not just own something which any old player can have from just one single day on the server.

 

[kniferharm]

I actually think that making them 5k would improve the quality of factions, you could even think about lowering faction tax in return.

 

[Zacatero]

I think 5k is a bit steep. But what i like most about this idea is that it will, in turn, allow larger and more productive factions since new players will join existing factions instead of creating their own right away. And if/when they are ready, they can start their own. And u wont just start a faction willy nilly. I mean its 2000r. Thats a lot of money to put into something you arent 100% able to support

 

[Zacatero]

you could even think about lowering faction tax in return

Click to shrink...

I still think that tax is important and it actually would be a better system the way it is if the initial price was higher.

 

[ArthurDomo]

Tbh I didn't know there use to be a 2000r pricing on factions. However this seems best for the server. It reminds me of when I first joined the server. I didn't know I could own my own fac and for a couple of days I just lived on a farm in the wilderness. It wasn't very eventful but it was what I favored most. It was joining Tyberia and learning from them that I became more attached to the server and began to be always active. This can probably help get more players to be more active and can possibly restore the server to how it once was when I joined.

 

[Savantly]

I actually think that making them 5k would improve the quality of factions, you could even think about lowering faction tax in return.

Click to shrink...

5k is almost twice the amount the average player has, and equivalent to almost 60 hours of darkrooming, I do think the price should be higher, at least 2000 regals (While keeping the tax system).

 

[shinbun]

https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...nd-thoughts-for-the-future.45099/#post-543936

 

[65jes89]

Honestly this has been suggested so widely for so long I don't quite understand why it hasn't already been implemented. I fully support a price of 2k while keeping taxes how they are now.

 

[Zacatero]

@Game is this a possibility?

 

[RazeII]

I personally think 5k would be great, yes it is more than the majority of people have but the majority of people don't need to be running a faction.
Larger factions with more sticking power is ideal, considerably better than a bunch of sporadic factions of friends who quit in a day. Joining a faction gives much better direction than making your own from the get go, not to mention everyone I know who has been a long standing member started out being recruited to an existing faction before creating their own.

Honestly though I don't think the issue is whether 5k is a good idea or not, just raising it to 2k would be a perfectly acceptable start!

 

[Zacatero]

not to mention everyone I know who has been a long standing member started out being recruited to an existing faction before creating their own.

Click to shrink...

^^^^

 

[_Vidaar]

I don't normally agree with Toku, but I do agree that it's too easy to get a faction started. It feels like the majority of Massive's factions are little one man facs doing nothing but taking up space. I think a rise in more veteran players leading factions would lead to an overall more entertaining experience.

 

[Tokuu]

I don't normally agree with Toku, but I do agree that it's too easy to get a faction started. It feels like the majority of Massive's factions are little one man facs doing nothing but taking up space. I think a rise in more veteran players leading factions would lead to an overall more entertaining experience.

Click to shrink...

You never agree with me wat

 

[MonMarty]

@Game is this a possibility?

Click to shrink...

It's always a possibility, question is more of whether it's a viability.

The problem with these kinds of threads is that they emphasize both the "customer's ambiguity" and "Self-bias", in that people who already have X privilege argue in favor of increasing the difficulty of obtaining it, and apply the logic of "I did X and had fun/could do it, therefor everyone should be held by my standard. The drawbacks are irrelevant to these people so it looks like a viable option. While certainly the price of factions did not properly evolve along with the ease of access to Regals, that ends very soon when job island is released, and after that the price can be moderated, but it should never become a price where a player would have to work upwards to two weeks to a month to achieve a faction, even with help of friends.

This server's biggest issue, for all the quality features it possesses over other servers, does not have pull at all. I am working on the new player experience right now to fix these god awful starting quests, but I am 100% disinterested in crippling the hours I am putting in new early-hours implementations by knocking the factions price up to absurd levels, which is too much of a demoralizing factor for the kind of people we need to attract to the server.

 

[Zacatero]

A more dynamic tutorial would be amazing. (Please make it repeatable tho, not everybody remembers it all the first time through)

 

[Ezra_Masicker]

Quite recently, there has been a considerable drop in the number of new players sticking with the factions worlds, either spending 100% of their time within Regalia or just leaving the server for good. Neither of those last two options lead to a healthy MassiveCraft with sustained longevity, and I, and a number of other players, believe this is partially down to the decrease in faction pricing to 100r.

I know this can be somewhat of a controversial issue, as I know everyone who plays wants to lead a faction with their friends, and become the next Tyberia, Enigma or Asteria with 200+ members, but quite honestly without proper dedication, that will not happen.

With the number of new factions shooting up around the place, the more inexperienced players suddenly have a grasp on power. Without knowledge of darkrooms, or any form of PvP, or lore to go with supposed RP factions, they have land to call their own. And they build a small holding, and all is wonderful for a while, until they get raided. And they lose their diamonds, or their building materials. And without a faction to back them up, they have no means of recovering them. This drives people away from the survival worlds, and potentially away from the server.

So, to the point in hand. I believe that factions should return to the old pricing of 2000r to be able to found your own place. This, in part, is due to the fact that any player can get 100 regals per day just by going to Regalia, plus anything extra gained from hard work can easily amount to the 2000 regals needed. It is also, and perhaps moreso, to stop inexperienced players from holding factions. The players who will make it as a leader will need to be dedicated and strong willed. These kinds of people will, upon joining, be happy to join a preexisting faction and make it their home, thus learning from already experienced players, and coming to grips with the unique features of MassiveCraft faster, alongside making friends experienced in both RP and PvP, bringing them into both sides of a somewhat divided server.

This keeps people active, as getting the 2000r takes a small amount of dedication, and gives the leader of said new factions an actual status. It makes people feel important again, and not just own something which any old player can have from just one single day on the server.

Click to shrink...

I like this idea. There are too many 5 man inactive factions. I believe that this would not only help factions to maintain larger, active numbers, but also give new players an environment to hone their skills before raising enough money to start their own faction. This would also curb the incredible amount of winy inexperienced players complaining about one of the staples of Massive: Raiding. Players who were trained in an experienced faction by others knows what to expect before going into the factions world and is better equipped to operate within MassiveCraft's unique community.

 

[BenRekt]

Lowering the faction cost made factions almost meaningless. Encouraging larger factions is what massive needs right now, so more meaningful events / fights / wars occur.

 

[Savantly]

It's always a possibility, question is more of whether it's a viability.
I am 100% disinterested in crippling the hours I am putting in new early-hours implementations by knocking the factions price up to absurd levels, which is too much of a demoralizing factor for the kind of people we need to attract to the server.

Click to shrink...

You want... Lazy (Undedicated and unmotivated) people to become the servers new demographic... Nice to know Marty.
From a business perspective, the mindset is agreeable, (More players means more potential donators) but the experience is so much more rich when you have to work for stuff. Look at studies related to the negatives of immediate gratification. It'll let you know if you're giving biased opinion against the topic or if your conclusion is completely logical.

 

[Tokuu]

It's always a possibility, question is more of whether it's a viability.

The problem with these kinds of threads is that they emphasize both the "customer's ambiguity" and "Self-bias", in that people who already have X privilege argue in favor of increasing the difficulty of obtaining it, and apply the logic of "I did X and had fun/could do it, therefor everyone should be held by my standard. The drawbacks are irrelevant to these people so it looks like a viable option. While certainly the price of factions did not properly evolve along with the ease of access to Regals, that ends very soon when job island is released, and after that the price can be moderated, but it should never become a price where a player would have to work upwards to two weeks to a month to achieve a faction, even with help of friends.

This server's biggest issue, for all the quality features it possesses over other servers, does not have pull at all. I am working on the new player experience right now to fix these god awful starting quests, but I am 100% disinterested in crippling the hours I am putting in new early-hours implementations by knocking the factions price up to absurd levels, which is too much of a demoralizing factor for the kind of people we need to attract to the server.

Click to shrink...

What has effectively happened is factions have become meaningless. Owning a faction has become trivial, rather than something people aspire toward. Just because new players want a faction with their friends and to build cobblestone monstrosities all over the wilderness doesn't mean they have to. The server's draw was always being a part of something meaningful, something bigger than yourself. That doesn't happen now with the whole factions side of things reduced to "if you log in you can have a faction". This is a large part of the draw to playing the factions side completely gone, as players no longer have to work to achieve what they want.

 

[Chalsie]

Although I agree with the whole working and earning your faction makes the experience more rewarding and encourages player loyalty due to the time they've put in...I have to say MonMarty explained exactly why this idea just isn't viable at this time. Most of the players who want this change are players who are much more established and won't feel the negative effects of it. Try to put yourselves into the shoes of new player. Imagine you have nothing, no regals, no mcmmo skills, no free darkroom because you are new and don't know of any, you don't know anyone and at best you must work with strangers that you don't know if you can really trust. You have no alt accounts and frankly you don't even know if that's allowed. On top of that you want to change the game and increase faction cost from 100r to 2000r? Just try to remember many players are children with limited free time and patience and are not necessarily lazy, undedicated or unmotivated. Should they not also be respected and given some consideration in their vulnerability? To those of you who would say no I would say that's a very short-sighted answer. There are many styles of playing on a given factions server. Not everyone wants to be the top pvper or have a huge faction. The more play styles we accomodate and the more players have fun on the server the better chance of funds coming in. Especially now with the voting changes the number of people voting is dismal. We're all here because we want to see the server succeed, no doubts about that....but maybe we could spend our time working on things we can personally change instead of redirecting staff's precious time from actively working on server related things to repeating themselves on forum posts. Maybe we could trust that they see a bigger picture we cannot and therefore are better equipped to make these decisions in the server's best interests. Minecraft as a whole does not hold the same popularity it once did so let's not place all the blame on one reason or other and just have some faith that whatever is being worked on will have the intended impact of making the server better.

 

[Violettee]

Although I agree with the whole working and earning your faction makes the experience more rewarding and encourages player loyalty due to the time they've put in...I have to say MonMarty explained exactly why this idea just isn't viable at this time. Most of the players who want this change are players who are much more established and won't feel the negative effects of it. Try to put yourselves into the shoes of new player. Imagine you have nothing, no regals, no mcmmo skills, no free darkroom because you are new and don't know of any, you don't know anyone and at best you must work with strangers that you don't know if you can really trust. You have no alt accounts and frankly you don't even know if that's allowed. On top of that you want to change the game and increase faction cost from 100r to 2000r? Just try to remember many players are children with limited free time and patience and are not necessarily lazy, undedicated or unmotivated. Should they not also be respected and given some consideration in their vulnerability? To those of you who would say no I would say that's a very short-sighted answer. There are many styles of playing on a given factions server. Not everyone wants to be the top pvper or have a huge faction. The more play styles we accomodate and the more players have fun on the server the better chance of funds coming in. Especially now with the voting changes the number of people voting is dismal. We're all here because we want to see the server succeed, no doubts about that....but maybe we could spend our time working on things we can personally change instead of redirecting staff's precious time from actively working on server related things to repeating themselves on forum posts. Maybe we could trust that they see a bigger picture we cannot and therefore are better equipped to make these decisions in the server's best interests. Minecraft as a whole does not hold the same popularity it once did so let's not place all the blame on one reason or other and just have some faith that whatever is being worked on will have the intended impact of making the server better.

Click to shrink...

If you're a child with limited free time chances are your factions going to disband anyway.
As for new players with no stats, we were all new players once, the biggest thing here is the community, most little factions don't get integrated into the community because they go off into the wilderness and dig themselves a hole, find they don't know what they're doing and disband. I think encouraging more established factions gives new players support. What's the first thing you see in an f home? Rules, people to go to when you need help, command lists, direction. I think it's essential for new players to join factions and grow within them.

 

[Ezra_Masicker]

If you're a child with limited free time chances are your factions going to disband anyway.
As for new players with no stats, we were all new players once, the biggest thing here is the community, most little factions don't get integrated into the community because they go off into the wilderness and dig themselves a hole, find they don't know what they're doing and disband. I think encouraging more established factions gives new players support. What's the first thing you see in an f home? Rules, people to go to when you need help, command lists, direction. I think it's essential for new players to join factions and grow within them.

Click to shrink...

I completely agree. New players leave anyway. Upping the price for a faction won't change that. They make a faction, isolate themselves and then leave because they have NO IDEA how the community works. When I first started, I join a med sized faction so that I could learn about the community. After I learned the basic ropes I left and started my own faction. I honestly believe that the time spent in my first faction is what anchored me to Massive. If I had just started my fac as soon as I hopped on, I would have been quickly discouraged and quit, leaving a swath of claimed land that no one else can use for a productive active faction.

 

[Savantly]

Although I agree with the whole working and earning your faction makes the experience more rewarding and encourages player loyalty due to the time they've put in...I have to say MonMarty explained exactly why this idea just isn't viable at this time. Most of the players who want this change are players who are much more established and won't feel the negative effects of it. Try to put yourselves into the shoes of new player. Imagine you have nothing, no regals, no mcmmo skills, no free darkroom because you are new and don't know of any, you don't know anyone and at best you must work with strangers that you don't know if you can really trust. You have no alt accounts and frankly you don't even know if that's allowed. On top of that you want to change the game and increase faction cost from 100r to 2000r? Just try to remember many players are children with limited free time and patience and are not necessarily lazy, undedicated or unmotivated. Should they not also be respected and given some consideration in their vulnerability? To those of you who would say no I would say that's a very short-sighted answer. There are many styles of playing on a given factions server. Not everyone wants to be the top pvper or have a huge faction. The more play styles we accomodate and the more players have fun on the server the better chance of funds coming in. Especially now with the voting changes the number of people voting is dismal. We're all here because we want to see the server succeed, no doubts about that....but maybe we could spend our time working on things we can personally change instead of redirecting staff's precious time from actively working on server related things to repeating themselves on forum posts. Maybe we could trust that they see a bigger picture we cannot and therefore are better equipped to make these decisions in the server's best interests. Minecraft as a whole does not hold the same popularity it once did so let's not place all the blame on one reason or other and just have some faith that whatever is being worked on will have the intended impact of making the server better.

Click to shrink...

There are no "Negative Effects" to raising the faction price, it just makes a player wait a little longer. During that wait time players get the chance to be immersed in the community, adopt the rules, and learn server commands.
The result is a more well rounded faction leader, who has already proven determination, which is a great quality for leaders to have. Honestly, 2000 regals isn't that hard to get. I personally made 3000 regals just yesterday. Point simply said, if you don't want the price raised, you're vouching for a lazier player base.
That is not something we need now, especially with need for better donation rewards. You won't get those ideas from lazy people.

 

[Chalsie]

I understand the points being made in favor of raising the faction price and agree with most of them. But what I am saying is that the bigger picture is missing from the idea proposed. Most of the arguments are made from the point of wanting to have more better faction leaders and making sure the players who stay long enough to learn and get the experience needed to succeed, will keep playing here. New players who just don't cut it will leave and most of you have adopted a good riddance attitude suggesting that players who fail and leave will fail and leave anyway so they don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. Only they do and should matter. Each new player has the potential to expand the player base. What if they aren't the best at the game but have a few friends that are and are just checking out the server for a few days? Having a lower price may encourage them to stay and invite their friends to come. What if a player is not destined to succeed but they make really good yt videos or enjoy streaming? They could potentially bring in those players we all want to see enjoying the server and making things lively again. MonMarty was talking about the new player experience. I'm assuming that means something along the lines of converting as many new players into regular players as we can. So applying a rise in faction cost to that goal is where I start to see how it may not make the best sense. As far as the current discussion goes I could make the same arguments in reverse. Keeping the price at 100r will make no difference to those in favor of raising the price. That the factions destined to succeed will still succeed even with all the many one man factions taking up space on the server and that there will always be a shortage of land due to the nature of how claiming/overclaiming/alt accounts works on the server. And Pokyug come on bro, we both know you're pretty good at making money, let's not pretend you're a good survey for average.

 

[Zacatero]

So what's the problem and raising it to maybe 500 or 1000 and actually seeing what is going to happen? That's a lot more attainable than 2000 yet still will make people work a little bit before they can make their own faction

 

[Savantly]

I understand the points being made in favor of raising the faction price and agree with most of them. But what I am saying is that the bigger picture is missing from the idea proposed. Most of the arguments are made from the point of wanting to have more better faction leaders and making sure the players who stay long enough to learn and get the experience needed to succeed, will keep playing here. New players who just don't cut it will leave and most of you have adopted a good riddance attitude suggesting that players who fail and leave will fail and leave anyway so they don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. Only they do and should matter. Each new player has the potential to expand the player base. What if they aren't the best at the game but have a few friends that are and are just checking out the server for a few days? Having a lower price may encourage them to stay and invite their friends to come. What if a player is not destined to succeed but they make really good yt videos or enjoy streaming? They could potentially bring in those players we all want to see enjoying the server and making things lively again. MonMarty was talking about the new player experience. I'm assuming that means something along the lines of converting as many new players into regular players as we can. So applying a rise in faction cost to that goal is where I start to see how it may not make the best sense. As far as the current discussion goes I could make the same arguments in reverse. Keeping the price at 100r will make no difference to those in favor of raising the price. That the factions destined to succeed will still succeed even with all the many one man factions taking up space on the server and that there will always be a shortage of land due to the nature of how claiming/overclaiming/alt accounts works on the server. And Pokyug come on bro, we both know you're pretty good at making money, let's not pretend you're a good survey for average.

Click to shrink...

I was once faced with the 2000 regal opposition to start a faction. I was new, and I was in experienced. I waited a year before making my own faction, not because it was difficult to get the money, but rather because the faction experience was rich enough without having to being leader. I know what it was like, and it wasn't bad, it was better.

Lowering the faction prices has noticeably made people want to be more independent. There is almost no sense for nationalism (Factionism). Players have been separating from their collectives, rather than working together. I personally believe we should have a more united community, which can be done with less factions and a higher faction creation cost.

"Pokyug come on bro, we both know you're pretty good at making money, let's not pretend you're a good survey for average. "
Awww thanks :3

 

[RazeII]

but it should never become a price where a player would have to work upwards to two weeks to a month to achieve a faction, even with help of friends.

Click to shrink...

This is what it was before and it seemed to work and regals have only become a lot easier to get a hold of now. I see what you mean about coming from a position of privelage and how it can certainly seem like a group of old players grumbling about 'back in my day' but I honestly couldn't name any faction that has become big based solely around new players.

New players who just don't cut it will leave and most of you have adopted a good riddance attitude suggesting that players who fail and leave will fail and leave anyway so they don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. Only they do and should matter. Each new player has the potential to expand the player base. What if they aren't the best at the game but have a few friends that are and are just checking out the server for a few days?

Click to shrink...

I do agree with the vast majority of this post, except I think all of these goals could be achieved alongside raising the price of factions, making them mean more once achieved.
You can still nurture new players with the better introduction experience Marty is talking about without putting people off.
With regals easier to get now and possibly made even easier with a bit of work on the job island this is only more applicable.

And Pokyug come on bro, we both know you're pretty good at making money, let's not pretend you're a good survey for average

Click to shrink...

Whilst this may be true for Pokyug and I and probably quite a few others in this thread, none of us started this way and yet we are all still here, wanting the best for the server.

My main issue is it seems that the current setup encourages groups of friends to start new factions the second they join, making it harder for them to survive due to massivemobs and partly massiverestore and does nothing to encourage the growth of new friendships and groups.
It has lost its sense of community that it once nurtured, the only reason me and a lot of people stuck around in the first place and still do to this day.

 

[BenRekt]

Hate to say it but forcing people to join a faction when they begin is what NEEDS to happen again. The only reason I didn't just ditch this server as soon as I joined was because I got picked up by a faction who taught me how to assimilate with the community. Had that not happened, and I was able to make my own faction, I would've just made a cobblestone hut somewhere away from everyone else and most likely went inactive.

Forcing people to play a specific way is never really a good thing, but in this case I believe it is necessary.

More focus should be put on improving, growing and streamlining players' ability to become part of the community, rather than having them do NPC quests alone that will just make them feel very alone. Not that quests are bad by any means, just that player interaction will ALWAYS be more beneficial than scripted NPCs. @MonMarty

 

[BenRekt]

We should just triple tax and release the job island, I'd be fine with that too

Click to shrink...

Then new players will create a faction, come back in 3 days, see all of their land has been unclaimed and leave the server. The appropriate way of preventing this is to make the starting cost high so new players won't end up wasting money on a faction that they can't even maintain.

 

[Zacatero]

@MonMarty you wont have wasted any time at all by making a new tutorial. But a tutorial + player interaction is better.

 

[Zacatero]

But... That already happens

Click to shrink...

Exactly. He is saying that forcing them to join existing factions will prevent that, thus keeping them longer.

 

[Gabauchi]

I thought the point of having factions lowered to begin with was to appease the minigame/instantaneous gratification players. like, the kinda guys who just wanna drop in and get the full experience.

I mean, a lot of aspects of the game are pretty daunting, from the sheer quantity of commands, to the immense amount of lore, and the levels of mcmmo required to make headway in pvp.

factions were lowered because it was one aspect of the game staff could sacrifice to make things a lil easier for the guys who just drop in to, ya know, drop in.

the reason being, of course, was that they help the server in the long-run. it's a massive demographic who's not unwilling to spent a lil cash. I mean, have you ever been on highpixel? them boys are jam packed, because they know who to appeal to and how to do it.

 

[65jes89]

I mean, a lot of aspects of the game are pretty daunting, from the sheer quantity of commands, to the immense amount of lore, and the levels of mcmmo required to make headway in pvp.

Click to shrink...

Yes. Exactly. In order to successfully lead a faction, which will likely lead to you staying on the server, you need to know what you're doing. Massive is pretty unique, and quite complicated. There's a rather large learning curve. If you make a faction straight off the boat, you're going to get confused, not know what to do, or where you're going, and ultimately quit. If you join a faction, and are heavily encouraged to do so, however, you will get a pretty good idea of what you're doing, and you'll have a clear, defined goal (to make enough regals to create your faction), and along the way you learn what the server is about, and what you need to do once you finally get your faction. It's what I did, and I honestly really miss those times back when I was learning all of that and first joined SunKiss, and later got leader. Ultimately, I think a higher price will lead to greater new player retention rates.

 

[Zacatero]

Massivecraft is not by any means an "instant gratification" server. I dont see why we should limit ourselves like that. I mean it might bring in more players.. But i know i dont donate for a rank until i know imma stay, so i am rather confused as to why the decisions are being made in favor of the... new players who are just going to leave.

 

[Gabauchi]

@jes_
I pretty much completely agree with you.

It's just that you're comparing yourselves to these nubs. They very often lack communication skills. And i'm talkin both ways. they have trouble saying what they wanna say, and they also have trouble understanding what we're trying to say. the majority of the people here (whether they've come to terms with it or not) actually have very good communication skills. (just take a look at the amount of debates that go on here)

what i'm getting at is that sometimes it's better for these guys to learn at their own pace. i'm all for holding their hands, but sometimes that's just not what they need.


@Zacatero
well for one you aren't an instantaneous gratification player, so you can't really compare yourself to them. you gotta keep in mind that they're willing to spend some cash they got (birthday/parents credit card/ babysitting check) just because they want something. that's where most money is made in general honestly.

 

[Zacatero]

well for one you aren't an instantaneous gratification player, so you can't really compare yourself to them. you gotta keep in mind that they're willing to spend some cash they got (birthday/parents credit card/ babysitting check) just because they want something. that's where most money is made in general honestly.

Click to shrink...

I totally am an instant gratification player, just not here.

Massive is not an instant gratification server. No minigames no constant prizes. Massive requires a lot of self initiative to have fun. Its not quick then its over. It makes zero sense to me why people would want to make decisions in favor of instant gratification players, when this server does not function that way.

 

[Ezra_Masicker]

I understand the points being made in favor of raising the faction price and agree with most of them. But what I am saying is that the bigger picture is missing from the idea proposed. Most of the arguments are made from the point of wanting to have more better faction leaders and making sure the players who stay long enough to learn and get the experience needed to succeed, will keep playing here. New players who just don't cut it will leave and most of you have adopted a good riddance attitude suggesting that players who fail and leave will fail and leave anyway so they don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. Only they do and should matter. Each new player has the potential to expand the player base. What if they aren't the best at the game but have a few friends that are and are just checking out the server for a few days? Having a lower price may encourage them to stay and invite their friends to come. What if a player is not destined to succeed but they make really good yt videos or enjoy streaming? They could potentially bring in those players we all want to see enjoying the server and making things lively again. MonMarty was talking about the new player experience. I'm assuming that means something along the lines of converting as many new players into regular players as we can. So applying a rise in faction cost to that goal is where I start to see how it may not make the best sense. As far as the current discussion goes I could make the same arguments in reverse. Keeping the price at 100r will make no difference to those in favor of raising the price. That the factions destined to succeed will still succeed even with all the many one man factions taking up space on the server and that there will always be a shortage of land due to the nature of how claiming/overclaiming/alt accounts works on the server. And Pokyug come on bro, we both know you're pretty good at making money, let's not pretend you're a good survey for average.

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The thing is, they do bring their friends, but what we are saying is, they have no longevity because they were never nurtured. So they bring their friends, they build an ugly cobblestone square on the most prime piece of faction world land and then when they get frustrated with the plugins or with raiding they leave, go inactive and we are left with another green square on dynmap and no one occupying. Yes, we don't like this, that doesn't mean we have a good riddance attitude, it simply means we want to see players succeed! Most people will join the server and "test" it out, they do this by creating a faction, claiming land, and building a hut, they quickly realize they have no idea what they are doing and quit leaving their claim and their ugly hut for us to work around. Upping the price of a faction funnels new players into a situation where their "testing" period is now a time of forced interaction with the community and its inner-workings. When I say "forced" I mean this in a good way. Instead of isolating themselves, they learn from us before starting their own faction and when they do start their own faction, they are already a part of the community with ties to it and an understanding of it.

 

[MonMarty]

Massivecraft is not by any means an "instant gratification" server. I dont see why we should limit ourselves like that. I mean it might bring in more players.. But i know i dont donate for a rank until i know imma stay, so i am rather confused as to why the decisions are being made in favor of the... new players who are just going to leave.

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This sort of response grinds my gears. The whole idea that the server will suddenly get a bigger community sense when we force new players to join existing factions is a bleak assumption at best. Literally any argument made in favor of it is from personal bias. "I did this, therefor they can too". "It worked fine for me, so it will work fine for them". This simply won't do with risk assessment.

Cayorion did donation intake research a while back (long while, but I presume the demographic analysis remained consistent) in which it was pointed out that 60% of all server donations are made in the first 3 days. What's even more tragic in this context is that somewhere between 7 to 8 out of 10 donations come from players who play on the server no more than 2 months, and that is even a ceiling cap. I think there was some data that suggested that some large quantity made donations and quit the server really quickly.

The idea that the long term donators are the power engine behind the server in terms of financial contributions has been false since the start. Granted, in quantity over longer periods of time they donate a large amount of stable income, but there are only very very few people who are consistent donators, that quota among staff is even small.

MassiveCraft is not an instant gratification server, but we have long been making moves to appeal more to those people. It may be an uncomfortable though or reality to some, but those "one day fly" factions that survive for a few weeks and then die out (at least at the time of research gathering) were the major source of income for the server. To me this entire thread is just a smokescreen distraction from the true issue that sabotages new player investment: the fact that factions have unlimited base potential on every new map that we release for the purpose of providing more space exactly for the new players.

I took a look at the data of last weekend and of the 320 unique new players that joined, only 53 came back the next day. The lack of community sense or long term faction investment really isn't the issue. The issue is that MassiveCraft has a bloated learning curve due to badly implemented integrations in early game tutorials, as well as the fact that players can literally go nowhere if they want to go out on their own or just with their friends because every map is always over claimed with unnecessary bases. Like even my own faction of which I am officer, Mithril, has like 600 odd chunks claimed+10 chunk radius around is in 3 separate worlds to my knowledge. Why? All the members only roleplay in Regalia anyway. And you bet as soon as a new world comes out the faction will claim a new plot of land only to do nothing with it for half a year.

This thread continues to generate a lot of pseudo intellect in terms of knowledge, pretty much all of it is conjunction and assumption dosed with heavy self bias. We could consider raising the Faction price above what we deem appropriate (we are planning a price hike in our general economic re-assessment following the release of Job-Island which will replace the 100 Regal quest in spawn and shift the income down a bit) but in order for that to take place there needs to be at least one valid argument that is entrenched in fact instead of just opinion. I can't buy anything with opinions except huge uncertainty and never ending risk to the continued survival of the server as well as my own livelihood.

Aggressive action is planned to ease the burden on world population, but we haven't put the details together yet. We'll release more information when we have it.

 

[BenRekt]

I thought the point of having factions lowered to begin with was to appease the minigame/instantaneous gratification players. like, the kinda guys who just wanna drop in and get the full experience.

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Minigame players, in my experience, are the people who will usually drop in regularly for a week or two before realizing that maintaining a faction actually takes some level of effort and then leaving indefinitely.

In fact, I believe being encouraged to join a faction from the start IS the way to get the full experience, not just being handed it on a silver plate as soon as you join the server.

I miss that days of factions like Thaelyn, that were massive (no pun intended) recruiting super powers with at least hundred members constantly active in roleplay, PvP and all the other great aspects, both in Minecraft and MassiveCraft. Nowadays, because factions are so easy to make and cheap, most factions are 5-10 people with maybe 2-3 active members. I remember when most active factions had at least 30-40 members and 5-6 members online constantly making the server feel like each faction was actually its own kingdom working its way to the top. Lowering the faction cost, along with the addition of the mass over-production of god weapons and gear has made the server almost completely meaningless in every sense. There are no more fights that actually make me feel like I am competing with someone else because people constantly switch from faction to faction and instead of huge, epic battles most wars are fought between 4-5 people at most.

I know that simply making the faction cost higher probably won't make the server anything like what it used to be, but it's a start in the right direction.

 

[65jes89]

we are planning a price hike in our general economic re-assessment following the release of Job-Island which will replace the 100 Regal quest in spawn and shift the income down a bit)

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If this is happening, then frankly I think anything like this should be put on hold until after this. A better economy would certainly be nice, and if it somehow manages to increase the player retention rate, even better.