When Standing Out Becomes Standing In: Ailor, Kleinfolk, And White Knights.

Streako said:
I apologize, I recognize I'm simply complaining in these paragraphs, but I feel that suggesting solutions would at this time be wasted since I don't think we're even in agreement that there may be a problem.
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Agreed there. I suggested ages ago a ton of tiny changes to make Lampar more playable. Mainly being either make then ADHD OR have short term memory, not both, because both makes them hard to progress with or develop as character at all, which according to staff is the entire point of roleplay. But that was kind of shut down pretty quickly.

Its a shame because I do think theres a lot of potential there, but there are so many hurdles in the way for such little real outcome that its near not worth.
 
conflicttFTW said:
Agreed there. I suggested ages ago a ton of tiny changes to make Lampar more playable. Mainly being either make then ADHD OR have short term memory, not both, because both makes them hard to progress with or develop as character at all, which according to staff is the entire point of roleplay. But that was kind of shut down pretty quickly.

Its a shame because I do think theres a lot of potential there, but there are so many hurdles in the way for such little real outcome that its near not worth.
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I've found a handy workaround in playing a Lampar Seedling, but it would've been nicer to have the option of the Lampar themselves. I really like the idea of ADHD-typical symptoms, because then they could be semi-aware of it and have such symptoms as a flaw to struggle with.
 
Streako said:
I've found a handy workaround in playing a Lampar Seedling, but it would've been nicer to have the option of the Lampar themselves. I really like the idea of ADHD-typical symptoms, because then they could be semi-aware of it and have such symptoms as a flaw to struggle with.
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I decided, due to how heated the argument got here and various other things, I would remake my suggestion thread focused just on giving them back their long term memory. Since there is clearly interest in playing them atm, just a difficulty with the HOW part.

https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/lampar-tweak-v-2-memory-vs-attention-span.55367/
 
Streako said:
I agree with you that people react to Lampar that way, but I don't think carving out a niche is good enough. As I've repeatedly stated, Lampar are specifically made to be cutesy. You can put them somewhere that they don't constantly act it, but it's how they are. It wasn't always the case, but the rewrite repurposed Lampar specifically to be cutesy characters that can only be played that way.

As I see it, Staff decided that the niche was created and that, rather than have the whole Q'urebo turn into only cringeworthy cutesy roleplay, they would cordon off all of that to the Lampar. Do I know that? No. But why else would they make it so that Lampar literally, and I quote, "cannot under any circumstance understand why anyone would dislike them". They are made to be cutesy and no other way. As they stand right now, there is no way to roleplay a Lampar seriously. I commend @Omnomivore (pardon my tagging you, but you've already been tagged and you likely have better insight than me, if you at all care) for playing N'omiel for so long, but in the same breath I must say that I fail to see how she's changed. And sure, perhaps that's the point of the race, but I simply feel that it's a waste to require that they all behave like that. Regardless of whether or not it's compliant, people will do cutesy roleplay; I don't see why the whole race should be devoted to such. Their whole 'cuteness' trait has been so overblown that basically every Lampar is exactly the same.
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The only major change with N'omiel is personality related. The longer she's in Regalia the more manipulative, sassy, and bully she becomes. I still find her a great deal of fun, but my low availability to do much else other than run the game department means I roleplay very little so I have very little time to progress the character. So I guess I'm not a great example of progression. An important thing to keep in mind with N'omiel though is that I intentionally made her based on a joke. I use her to unwind and relax for the sole sake of enjoying roleplaying her for the humor. I don't have to take her seriously, which is what makes her so fun to play.
 
Omnomivore said:
The only major change with N'omiel is personality related. The longer she's in Regalia the more manipulative, sassy, and bully she becomes. I still find her a great deal of fun, but my low availability to do much else other than run the game department means I roleplay very little so I have very little time to progress the character. So I guess I'm not a great example of progression. An important thing to keep in mind with N'omiel though is that I intentionally made her based on a joke. I use her to unwind and relax for the sole sake of enjoying roleplaying her for the humor. I don't have to take her seriously, which is what makes her so fun to play.
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When a random squirrel runs up to you and starts giving you sass some for no reason..
 
Parz1vol said:
This is an inaccurate statement. They have always been written as pests.


No. Regalia is majority populated by racists, supremacists, and xenophobes that are all pro-ailor.


Again, severely racist xenophobic supremacists. They are supposed to see all others as sub-human. Which means animals. Them being that way is canonically established.


Doesn't take away from the fact that they're mostly racists that hate everything else. It's kind of snow flake roleplay to break that standard.


I'd disagree. It's a mix of all factors.


Yes


Yes
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Soooo.Most of us should play uninteresting (by Regalian (and my) standards) shouting bigots?.The actual player played characters would probably be a small cross section of regalia and the ailoria in general. If it were accurate we'd have about 20 non-Ailor
 
kudzzy said:
Soooo.Most of us should play uninteresting (by Regalian (and my) standards) shouting bigots?.The actual player played characters would probably be a small cross section of regalia and the ailoria in general. If it were accurate we'd have about 20 non-Ailor
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No, you would have a little over 40℅ non-human chars if it was accurate to demographics of the regal empire.
Also it's Aloria.

Proper reply incoming
 
kudzzy said:
Most of us should play uninteresting (by Regalian (and my) standards) shouting bigots?
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Just because you find something boring doesn't mean others find it boring, further more, have some creativity with the tools and setting you've been given, belief of superiority doesn't mean you're going to be instantly holding rallies.
Some of us enjoy providing/having resistance instead of being the rp equivalent of a spoiled brat.
 
kudzzy said:
Soooo.Most of us should play uninteresting (by Regalian (and my) standards) shouting bigots?.The actual player played characters would probably be a small cross section of regalia and the ailoria in general. If it were accurate we'd have about 20 non-Ailor
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No. What I am saying is that those who do play Ailor should play them as (majority) racists. Whether you like it or not that's just how the world appears to be built. Ailor religion is one of supremacy. Many Ailor are religious. Dare I say most. This isn't the real world.
 
Legoclub22 said:
Who started it? Why? Doesn't matter, eenie meenie miney mo, I pick that guy, let's help him.
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Mhmm, when my character was in the sewers and someone in rags tries to pickpocket him and fails, she gets pushed off by the neck, only to fall on the stairs with no other consequence. Then two vigilantes see my character as the "bad guy" and leave out of humiliation after they heard the true story after they held him upto a wall for five minutes.
 
Beetletoes said:
Being atheist in Aloria, a world shaped by magic, is like saying you don't believe in helicopters, and that everyone who believes in helicopters is an idiot, and that the world would be better off without people who believe in helicopters, while you are riding in a helicopter.
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Well after the rewrite it's probably going to turn into some sort of epic legacy where people think that mages are these half-demons that could kill you in a second. Or at least the kids do due to fairy tales and that junk..
 
CptSilvyrall said:
Well after the rewrite it's probably going to turn into some sort of epic legacy where people think that mages are these half-demons that could kill you in a second. Or at least the kids do due to fairy tales and that junk..
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That's sort of how it is in the lore right now. Mages are just way over played.
 
Beetletoes said:
Being atheist in Aloria, a world shaped by magic, is like saying you don't believe in helicopters, and that everyone who believes in helicopters is an idiot, and that the world would be better off without people who believe in helicopters, while you are riding in a helicopter.
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I mean even after the rewrite, you are only aware that there are only powerful beings since atribattes and that jazz just go around doing clearly magical things willy nilly so three options are left: They're weird powerful mages, they're gods or they're demons.

Also qadir are atheists technically.
 
_Grimmy_ said:
I mean even after the rewrite, you are only aware that there are only powerful beings since atribattes and that jazz just go around doing clearly magical things willy nilly so three options are left: They're weird powerful mages, they're gods or they're demons.

Also qadir are atheists technically.
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Meh, I thought they would turn into fairy tales and rumors. I mean most people would never see a mage in their life, and everyone says that the Elven Empire had mages in their armies..
 
Parz1vol said:
That logic is stupid. For a god to die, they need to have existed in the first place, hence not atheism.
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Yes, but there currently is no god so they don't exist anymore and that's how it's technically a true statement that qadir are atheists.
 
_Grimmy_ said:
Yes, but there currently is no god so they don't exist anymore and that's how it's technically a true statement that qadir are atheists.
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a·the·ist
ˈāTHēəst/
noun
  1. a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. Which means they believed they never existed.
EDIT: We posted this at the same time. Mine shouldn't count.
 
_Grimmy_ said:
Just because you find something boring doesn't mean others find it boring, further more, have some creativity with the tools and setting you've been given, belief of superiority doesn't mean you're going to be instantly holding rallies.
Some of us enjoy providing/having resistance instead of being the rp equivalent of a spoiled brat.
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I strongly dislike the implications of your statement.
 
Don't flame, don't butt heads and argue. You can debate like grown ups, or press the big X. I don't wan to see my thread turned into a flame-fest.

Qadir are not atheist. Abraham Lincoln exists, he's just dead. Technically artheist, in they do not believe in a living god, but they believe in such a thing as gods.

When someone sees a Lampar get abused, they(in my experience) violently attack the abuser. When someone sees a wild cat get kicked off the sidewalk, they death stare at the one who kicked it, scoff, tell them off, but would never actually attack someone over an animal. Lampar are animals.

There are likely two types of Ailor:
The high-class, and working class.
There's a clear line between them.
High-class are raised to look down on people, especially other races. They are strictly Unionist, and believe in the domination of other races. They see them as sub-human. Below even the working class.
The working class sees them as near equals. They are raised around them, in similar living conditions. They are not likely to reject someone based on them being non-ailor. They are the kind to want to offer other races a chance to be enlightened, the kind to think "If they can haul their weight, they're fine by me." However, they are still not Ailor. They're lessers, but they still deserve a chance.

Lampar are likely seen as animals by even the working class, since they fail time after time to do anything worth while. They eat, sleep, eat, sleep. They can't work jobs, can't mine Iron, can't bake bread, can't wield a sword. They're worthless in society. They're pests, because they simply steal food from Ailor.

The problem with white-knightism is only briefly touched on in my OP, as the OP focuses on Ailor views on Lampar, but the problem is much grander than people attacking a lone noble for kicking a Klein. White-knightism is very troublesome, and annoying to the original fighters. They don't really want to see four people join the fight, or they'd yell "Stop him!". In reality, even then, people are likely to stand and watch. They all are waiting for someone else to step up and do something first. Onlookers choosing a side is also wrong. Unless you witnessed the fight start, personally know one of the fighters, or are watching someone be beaten senselessly, and unable to defend, there is no logical and reasonable way to choose a side. A better alternative would be to break up the fight. Nobody does that. They join in. They don't grab each fighter's arms from behind and hold them back, nope. They go in swinging.
 
Legoclub22 said:
When someone sees a Lampar get abused, they(in my experience) violently attack the abuser. When someone sees a wild cat get kicked off the sidewalk, they death stare at the one who kicked it, scoff, tell them off, but would never actually attack someone over an animal. Lampar are animals.
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I mean to be fair I've kicked a guy in the balls because I saw him kick a random cat and laugh, but point taken.
 

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