When Standing Out Becomes Standing In: Ailor, Kleinfolk, And White Knights.

[Legoclub22]

Hello! I figured I'd make this as food for thought. Might make some more of the type later on.

So basically, what this post is about is how most commoner Ailor characters perceive the Beast races, specifically Kleinfolk, and how people often try too hard to save random strangers from an assumed bad guy.

Part One, Kleinfolk.

Kleinfolk are pretty cute, right? Do your Ailor characters agree?
The problem I see is that Ailor, when played correctly such as by the Nobility, should view the little mice people as pests. Sure they can speak, and wear clothes, but they're still annoying, steal your food, and get hair on your fine clothes. Ailor are highly xenophobic and racist, right? Why, then, do the vast majority of played Ailor find Lampar to be cute and cuddly?
Realistically, they shouldn't. They're not even people, are they? Everyone treats them like they are, though. Lampar are animals. Think of a Candlemouse or a Squirrel. The vast majority of Ailors, I find, are played incorrectly. Have you ever punted an annoying Kleinfolk across the tavern only to be ganged up on by onlookers who decide to attack you or insult you because you hurt an innocent Lampar? They wouldn't do that if it was a Squirrel or Candlemouse, would they? Yet, everyone within sight typicaly brings it upon themself to side with the rat rather than the Regalian Guard.
This brings me to my second point...

Part Two, Army of White Knights.

Everyone loves a white knight, right? Helping those who can't help themself, and putting themself in harm's way to save a complete stranger. Well, what about a Tavern of white knights?
Ever been in a fight anywhere around other people? It's highly likely that several others joined the fight and picked a side. No matter who is fighting or why, they pick a side that from the perspective of an onlooker seems just. This is just plain wrong. Ever seen a fight in real life? When two people duke it out, you don't see a twenty-person dogpile on them over it. Instead, you see a crowd of onlookers, not wanting to get involved, much less put themself in harm's way to help a complete stranger in the midst of a fistfight. Who started it? Why? Doesn't matter, eenie meenie miney mo, I pick that guy, let's help him.

Part Three, Nobles and Guards.

The guards and nobles are evil and corrupt, all of them! They're all evil soulless monsters! Menaces! They're unreasonably mean! Or are they? What if the reason so many Nobles and Guards are considered evil, mean and corrupt is because the people perceiving them that way are instead the ones who are unreasonably nice and friendly to other races. They're viewed as the bad guys, when really, they're playing Ailor how they should be played; racist and xenophobic.
Ailor aren't friendly Yanar. They don't lead an empire of peace and equal opportunity. Their religion, which realistically would be followed by everyone in Regalia, especially Ailor, with little exception, says in it's creeds that Ailor are the supreme race, and should rule the others.


I'm definitely not calling anyone out here, or pointing fingers. Instead, I'm hoping to bring light to what I believe is a large misinterpretation of Ailors as a whole. Leave your thoughts below!
If this recieves enough positive feedback I'll probably make another.

 

[GoodDreamer]

Ailor find Lampar to be cute and cuddly

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God please no.

 

[Conflee]

Part One, Kleinfolk.

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The issue with Lampar, though it was much more prominent in the Q'uebo pre-rewrite, is that they weren't written to be pests. Q'uebo were basically infants, yet for some reason kicking them and abusing them was fine. Logically speaking, there's all kinds of psychological effects built into people to make them sympathetic- ESPECIALLY for kids and babies. If there weren't, humans IRL (and any other race more or less in RP) would have gone extinct because they just let their own or their neighbors babies be eaten by bears and shit.

The Lampar, post-rewrite, have fixed a lot of these issues, by making them more of pests, but they are still essentially tiny children. Children cry and scream and smell bad and claw, but we still don't just let one walk in front of a car. So... The issue is still there that it is literally psychopathic to not feel some level of empathy for a Lampar- or any race. Racism plays a huge part in this, but especially for the mostly human looking races, its only natural that even In-Universe, Compliantly, there should be at the LEAST a 50/50 split in the population.

As a side note: I hate Cwewtsie Wampaaar RP. Its as anime weeabo cringe as any edge lord vampire demigod character, and needs to die please. Play them properly- they are NOT Loli hug toys, they are just slow and ADHD as hell. Weirdos.

Part Two, Army of White Knights.

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This one I agree with mostly. Though, with exceptions, most people dont actually end up in fights naturally unless they step in the middle of one. I tend to have gaps of weeks between even minor scuffles in Roleplay unless I start stepping in the middle of fights to break them up or pick a side. So it comes down to fun I think. People who like to CRP but don't want to be jerks either make guards, or white knights.

Part Three, Nobles and Guards.

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I mean, in the past there have been a lot of Guards and Nobles who were just flat out jerks. Not that I have issue with that- the casual racism thing is kind of fun for RP. But then there are the random people who like- bringing back the Q'uebo topic- kicking essentially babies down stairs, or literally skinning a Dakkar alive- WHICH HAPPENED by the way. Dakkar didn't even fight, it vaguely resisted arrest and as a result was beaten, had its rock plates removed, then beaten again and almost died in guard care.

Theres a difference between playing out the racism and general douchebag Ailor thing, and just going way overboard to the point of it being obviously overdone and cringe AF.

 

[FireFan96]

I think I'll throw my 2 cents in here.

I don't agree that every Ailor should be played a certain way. They are one of the races to have a large degree of variance with them, to the point where they discriminate among themselves.

Lampar may be annoying to someone who was brought up in a pro-aristocracy Ailor household, but might be viewed as a friend to somebody who lives on the streets and is kicked around by other Ailors. Different personalities will view things differently, based on their upbringing. Obviously Lampar aren't native to Regalia, so somebody some time was curious about the race, else they would've purged
Evokai.

As for tavern brawls, it's even noted that Regalians should back up their word with actions, so it makes sense a few people who were just enjoying a beer would take their part in a full on brawl. they probably just got chewed out by their boss, and just want some peace and quiet.

The city guard isn't around to be anyone's friend. Their job is to make sure you live to see another day, and hopefully benefit the empire every 24 hour period. That's Guard 101 in a nutshell. Same goes for nobility. Why should they spend two seconds of their life talking with somebody who doesn't care to offer anything in return besides wasted time? Which I suppose goes for anybody. If you strike up small talk, you better have something to say besides "Hi, who are you and what do you do."

In my opinion, Ailor are meant to be whatever you want them to be. They are the most diverse race on MassiveCraft, and are the easiest to portray. You might be able to say that the majority of Regalian citizens dislike other races, but there's a gradient.

 

[GoodDreamer]

The issue with Lampar, though it was much more prominent in the Q'uebo pre-rewrite, is that they weren't written to be pests. Q'uebo were basically infants, yet for some reason kicking them and abusing them was fine. Logically speaking, there's all kinds of psychological effects built into people to make them sympathetic- ESPECIALLY for kids and babies. If there weren't, humans IRL (and any other race more or less in RP) would have gone extinct because they just let their own or their neighbors babies be eaten by bears and shit.

The Lampar, post-rewrite, have fixed a lot of these issues, by making them more of pests, but they are still essentially tiny children. Children cry and scream and small and claw, but we still don't just let one walk in front of a car. So... The issue is still there that it is literally psychopathic to not feel some level of empathy for a Lampar- or any race. Racism plays a huge part in this, but especially for the mostly human looking races, its only natural that even In-Universe, Compliantly, there should be at the LEAST a 50/50 split in the population.

As a side note: I hate Cwewtsie Wampaaar RP. Its as anime weeabo cringe as any edge lord vampire demigod character, and needs to die please. Play them properly- they are Loli hug toys, they are just slow and ADHD as hell. Weirdos.

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This would apply if the sigma for Lampar wasn't the purest form cutsie-rp cancer. Of all the Lampar in the sewers or on the surface, very few of them have a reputation of being anything more than annoying little shits that walk in on your roleplay and make you want to scream obscenities into the air. I have seen maybe two Lampar that even came close to decent IRP (of which you are one), and I've heard good things about a third one ( @Omnomivore ). Punting a Lampar has nothing to do with IC hate or racism. It has to do with not wanting to put up with an RPer who has deluded him or herself into thinking that they made a wise choice by choosing a Lampar as a character.

 

[Legoclub22]

Look at Unionism and the Regalian Empire, though. Is their soul purposes not to put Ailor into a state of control over all 'inferior' races? Therefore, shouldn't any who don't share this mindset be borderlining an enemy of Regalia and Unionism?

 

[FireFan96]

Possibly, but once again there's a gradient. You can still preach about Ailor's dominating over everything, but that doesn't mean having a genocide of every non-Ailor in existence. Some might even say Ailors should help the lesser races in order for them to relearn how to be a Unionist.
Then there's also the Ailors who are dirt poor to the point where they may as well be a lesser race. They don't care much for the Empire or Unionism, because there's really no point to care when the only thing on your mind is when your next meal is.

 

[Beetletoes]

Put the cute rpers (Not just lampar, all of them) and white knights in a big box and drop it into the depths of the ocean.

 

[Conflee]

Put the cute rpers (Not just lampar, all of them) and white knights in a big box and drop it into the depths of the ocean.

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Beetletoes 4 Emperor 305 AC !

 

[Parz1vol]

is that they weren't written to be pests.

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This is an inaccurate statement. They have always been written as pests.

So... The issue is still there that it is literally psychopathic to not feel some level of empathy for a Lampar- or any race. Racism plays a huge part in this, but especially for the mostly human looking races, its only natural that even In-Universe, Compliantly, there should be at the LEAST a 50/50 split in the population.

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No. Regalia is majority populated by racists, supremacists, and xenophobes that are all pro-ailor.

jerks. Not that I have issue with that- the casual racism thing is kind of fun for RP. But then there are the random people who like- bringing back the Q'uebo topic- kicking essentially babies down stairs, or literally skinning a Dakkar alive- WHICH HAPPENED by the way. Dakkar didn't even fight, it vaguely resisted arrest and as a result was beaten, had its rock plates removed, then beaten again and almost died in guard care.

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Again, severely racist xenophobic supremacists. They are supposed to see all others as sub-human. Which means animals. Them being that way is canonically established.

In my opinion, Ailor are meant to be whatever you want them to be. They are the most diverse race on MassiveCraft, and are the easiest to portray. You might be able to say that the majority of Regalian citizens dislike other races, but there's a gradient.

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Doesn't take away from the fact that they're mostly racists that hate everything else. It's kind of snow flake roleplay to break that standard.

Punting a Lampar has nothing to do with IC hate or racism

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I'd disagree. It's a mix of all factors.

Look at Unionism and the Regalian Empire, though. Is their soul purposes not to put Ailor into a state of control over all 'inferior' races? Therefore, shouldn't any who don't share this mindset be borderlining an enemy of Regalia and Unionism?

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Yes

Put the cute rpers (Not just lampar, all of them) and white knights in a big box and drop it into the depths of the ocean.

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Yes

 

[Conflee]

This is an inaccurate statement. They have always been written as pests.

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Just because the wiki says "They are seen as pests" doesnt mean they are written to be pests. All the old lore basically made them cute, with their only downsides being "annoying" and "eat a lot" which were traits babies have in real life, and given they were described as looking like toddlers... In my opinion it was just bad lazy writing. Show dont tell. ETC. And its been fixed now... to some extent, but its still there.

No. Regalia is majority populated by racists, supremacists, and xenophobes that are all pro-ailor.

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Again, severely racist xenophobic supremacists. They are supposed to see all others as sub-human. Which means animals. Them being that way is canonically established.

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Theres a difference between being racists and killing babies for fun. One is a social factor, something you learn (or more accurately dont learn to not do) while the other is a few mental issues wrapped with a nice bloody bow.

EDIT: I have another point to add, sorry. Even though people dont consider cats to be people, kicking and abusing them is still something the majority of people find wrong. So if you present the Lampar as animals in lore, but make them cute, this should still 100% apply. People would NOT be ok with you kicking a kitten. So they should NOT be ok with you kicking a Lampar, ESPECIALLY if they can talk.

 

[Parz1vol]

Lampar, ESPECIALLY if they can talk.

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Nope. Them talking solidifies them as another inferior species that is literal dirt beneath the feet of the Ailor. All of the wiki pages seem to be written from the perspective of the Ailor majority, so when the wiki says they are seen as pests, they're seen as pests, whether you believe it logical or not. Ailor are not humans, they are Ailor. And culture dictates more than you think. Ailor culture approves of the dehumanization of all other races, and approves of their violent brutalization.

 

[Chay_]

Part Two, Army of White Knights.

Everyone loves a white knight, right? Helping those who can't help themself, and putting themself in harm's way to save a complete stranger. Well, what about a Tavern of white knights?
Ever been in a fight anywhere around other people? It's highly likely that several others joined the fight and picked a side. No matter who is fighting or why, they pick a side that from the perspective of an onlooker seems just. This is just plain wrong. Ever seen a fight in real life? When two people duke it out, you don't see a twenty-person dogpile on them over it. Instead, you see a crowd of onlookers, not wanting to get involved, much less put themself in harm's way to help a complete stranger in the midst of a fistfight. Who started it? Why? Doesn't matter, eenie meenie miney mo, I pick that guy, let's help him.

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While it's a fair point, the thing is, the reason people don't apply this reaction to their characters is simply because Regalia isn't real life. When people roleplay, it's looking for opportunities to partake in what everyone else is doing. In real life, you would obviously use logic if a fight breaks out- because who the hell is going risk getting themselves hurt. But when the most getting hurt is not even a few pixels, then why not join in? Realism versus enjoyment.

 

[Conflee]

Nope. Them talking solidifies them as another inferior species that is literal dirt beneath the feet of the Ailor. All of the wiki pages seem to be written from the perspective of the Ailor majority, so when the wiki says they are seen as pests, they're seen as pests, whether you believe it logical or not. Ailor are not humans, they are Ailor. And culture dictates more than you think. Ailor culture approves of the dehumanization of all other races, and approves of their violent brutalization.

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The culture of the last, 400-ish years doesnt overwrite the thousands of years needed prior for a civilization to exist in the first place like this. But w/e. All im saying is given that Ailor are literally a 1-to-1 race with Humans, their psychology should be near the same. So having a lot of Ailor- even if it ISNT a 50/50 split- that arent inherently racist pricks who hate everything isnt a bad thing. In fact I would say pretty much anyone from a colony would be less racist because they dont give a crap about Unionism in general anyway. They dont get any of the benefits, so if someone can do the work needed to keep the community alive, well, your fine, who cares.

 

[Parz1vol]

In fact I would say pretty much anyone from a colony would be less racist because they dont give a crap about Unionism in general anyway

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This is largely unsubstantiated.

All im saying is given that Ailor are literally a 1-to-1 race with Humans, their psychology should be near the same. So having a lot of Ailor- even if it ISNT a 50/50 split- that arent inherently racist pricks who hate everything isnt a bad thing

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It isn't a bad thing, but the most dominant Ailor culture is one of racist pricks, and it's been that way for generations. Any non-racists would be rare. Not common.

 

[GoodDreamer]

they dont give a crap about Unionism

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The concept of non-religiousness or atheism on Aloria should not exist to any capacity. If my god was a living entity who said that he protected my from the horrid magics and monsters that I knew existed, then I would grovel at his feet and take his every sneeze as a call for Devine war against magic. If he says that other races are shit, then I will nod right along with him.

 

[Conflee]

The concept of non-religiousness or atheism on Aloria should not exist to any capacity. If my god was a living entity who said that he protected my from the horrid magics and monsters that I knew existed, then I would grovel at his feet and take his every sneeze as a call for Devine war against magic. If he says that other races are shit, then I will nod right along with him.

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Acknowledging that entities of immense power exist vs worshipping them is different. My character for instance knows this crap exists, hes seen some of it in action. But he also thinks that "gods" are just kind of dicks based on his own experience and what hes heard. Also Unionism is basically confirmed nonsense OOCly. lol

 

[Parz1vol]

OOCly

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You just killed your argument. Nothing OOC matters. Only IC.

The concept of non-religiousness or atheism on Aloria should not exist to any capacity. If my god was a living entity who said that he protected my from the horrid magics and monsters that I knew existed, then I would grovel at his feet and take his every sneeze as a call for Devine war against magic. If he says that other races are shit, then I will nod right along with him.

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Yes. You just made the argument that trumps all the others. That deity also goes ahead and says that the Ailor are the coolest of the cool, deifying the Ailor as a species and shitting on the other species. It's the perfect formula for a strong religion.

 

[Conflee]

You just killed your argument. Nothing OOC matters. Only IC.

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That hardly kills my argument, given that was a single minor point tacked on to the end of a massive near-essay of posts I made tearing into the whole "Everyone/Majority has to be racist" thing

 

[Aespair]

Doesn't take away from the fact that they're mostly racists that hate everything else. It's kind of snow flake roleplay to break that standard.

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There's a fine line between making a character that isn't a cardboard cutout and snowflake roleplay.

I, however, agree that the majority of Ailor should not give a toss about some Lampar getting stepped on or shoo'd away or what have you. White Knighting is a bad idea OOCly because it's intrusive and annoying to the people roleplaying. If I want to get beat up by an Orc, I don't need a hero to save me. I also don't need someone else piggy backing on the person beating me up's success. I can't count the amount of times I was being beat up in the sewer tavern and someone came along to either A) save me like the damsel in distress that I am or B) pick up a baseball bat and start beating me into the dirt more than I always was.

In short, if you like CRP and can't live without it, make friends with different people and with others. If your buddy is getting the tar kicked out of him, I can understand if you want to give a helping hand. If some random guy you had a drink with once is getting beat up, it makes no sense to stick your neck out for that person.

That being said I'm all for goons and thugs ganging up on me because I told their leader that dress /did/ make his butt look fat. That's good stuff right there.

 

[Conflee]

Yes. You just made the argument that trumps all the others. That deity also goes ahead and says that the Ailor are the coolest of the cool, deifying the Ailor as a species and shitting on the other species. It's the perfect formula for a strong religion.

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(Sorry I hate to do reply things in two separate posts but it just , I keep having points pop into my head lol)

Theres also the fact that not all Unionists, even within the city or even the Priests, see Unionism the same way. One of the biggest examples of this is the argument for whether it is Unionists and Ailors right to rule over all dominantly and keep the other races pinned underfoot, or if it is their job to help teach the other races so that they too may ascend to the Way. Something which is supported by Unionism itself, but often ignored by the racist crowd. Which is fine, again, I like the tension and the conflict (that is my name after all lol) But its hardly noncompliant for half the city to be on the fence over this topic, with another large portion believing it is their duty as good Unionists to treat the other races well and to try to win them over to the "True" way.

 

[Beetletoes]

The concept of non-religiousness or atheism on Aloria should not exist to any capacity. If my god was a living entity who said that he protected my from the horrid magics and monsters that I knew existed, then I would grovel at his feet and take his every sneeze as a call for Devine war against magic. If he says that other races are shit, then I will nod right along with him.

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Being atheist in Aloria, a world shaped by magic, is like saying you don't believe in helicopters, and that everyone who believes in helicopters is an idiot, and that the world would be better off without people who believe in helicopters, while you are riding in a helicopter.

 

[Parz1vol]

That hardly kills my argument, given that was a single minor point tacked on to the end of a massive near-essay of posts I made tearing into the whole "Everyone/Majority has to be racist" thing

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Except it proves that you're taking the wrong perspective. You didn't tear into the "Everyone/Majority has to be racist" thing, because no matter what you say, it is the stated truth. It is on the wiki, it is in the actions of the lore, and it is seen in progressions. You're comparing the game canon to real life, which is a horrible perspective for these things. It is not the real world. The staff determine the logic and the culture and the way the people's outlook is. There is no option to say, "Well this doesn't make sense that we'd kick Klein," because the staff and lore say this: Klein are pests, Ailor are supremacists on average and in the majority, Klein are less than people, almost no one cares about them. It is an irrefutable fact based on the canon and lore.

There's a fine line between making a character that isn't a cardboard cutout and snowflake roleplay.

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I look at these circumstances as characters with magic. What is being called for by Conf and others that think the Ailor playing Splat The Rat is logically incorrect, is the same as what happened to magic. Magic is supposed to be rare says the lore. Ailor are majority racists and supremacists. They're essentially calling for people to stop working with the predetermined lore so that they don't get triggered whenever a Klein is punted across the room by a drunk.

(Sorry I hate to do reply things in two separate posts but it just , I keep having points pop into my head lol)

Theres also the fact that not all Unionists, even within the city or even the Priests, see Unionism the same way. One of the biggest examples of this is the argument for whether it is Unionists and Ailors right to rule over all dominantly and keep the other races pinned underfoot, or if it is their job to help teach the other races so that they too may ascend to the Way. Something which is supported by Unionism itself, but often ignored by the racist crowd. Which is fine, again, I like the tension and the conflict (that is my name after all lol) But its hardly noncompliant for half the city to be on the fence over this topic, with another large portion believing it is their duty as good Unionists to treat the other races well and to try to win them over to the "True" way.

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Yes? And what happens when that stupid Klein ignores your preaching for the twelve dozenth time? Most people will either A: be brought up taught that Kleinfolk are rats and pests, as they are, or B: that they should be given an opportunity to convert to Unionism so that they may properly grovel underfoot. Those two options are limited to one option when you consider the fact that Kleinfolk are notoriously stupid and kept as pets by the few people that enjoy their presence.

Being atheist in Aloria, a world shaped by magic, is like saying you don't believe in helicopters, and that everyone who believes in helicopters is an idiot, and that the world would be better off without people who believe in helicopters, while you are riding in a helicopter.

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And yes, that's exactly right.

 

[Conflee]

Being atheist in Aloria, a world shaped by magic, is like saying you don't believe in helicopters, and that everyone who believes in helicopters is an idiot, and that the world would be better off without people who believe in helicopters, while you are riding in a helicopter.

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Qadir, however, are atheists, technically speaking. They believe that their gods are dead, and if this belief is spoken in Regalia, it can be seen as denying the Imperial Spirit and thus being liable to execution.

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Kek

Except it proves that you're taking the wrong perspective. You didn't tear into the "Everyone/Majority has to be racist" thing, because no matter what you say, it is the stated truth. It is on the wiki, it is in the actions of the lore, and it is seen in progressions. You're comparing the game canon to real life, which is a horrible perspective for these things. It is not the real world. The staff determine the logic and the culture and the way the people's outlook is. There is no option to say, "Well this doesn't make sense that we'd kick Klein," because the staff and lore say this: Klein are pests, Ailor are supremacists, Klein are less than citizens, almost no one cares about them. It is an irrefutable fact based on the canon and lore.

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I was saying that besides one line lazily written to declare with no real logical backing that this is how the majority of people think, was dumb. Either way it has been rectified ish in lore.

Yes? And what happens when that stupid Klein ignores your preaching for the twelve dozenth time? Most people will either A: be brought up taught that Kleinfolk are rats and pests, as they are, or B: that they should be given an opportunity to convert to Unionism so that they may properly grovel underfoot. Those two options are limited to one option when you consider the fact that Kleinfolk are notoriously stupid and kept as pets by the few people that enjoy their presence.

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Im just saying, having a chunk of people not want to brutally murder the equivalent of a kitten via organ failure caused by stepping on their midsection is probably pretty normal.

Either way it doesnt matter, nobody will change how they RP based on any logical or random-sentence-in-lore sources either of us can quote. And there are a million factors that can lead to any character acting how they do. Maybe someone saw one being abused and crying as it crawled its way to its dead wife who just got stepped on? Who the hell knows, its roleplay, full of edgy shit. Either way that would permanently mark how a character sees and treats a Lampar.

For Nobles? I 100% agree that would all more or less consider them pests, but, ima go quote some lore from the wiki here:

Some notable Regalian noble families purchased a couple of pets, leashing them like one would a dog or putting them on display at home with comical little outfits. Others entered the business of street performance and circus going, until before long everyone knew what a Lampar was.

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• Lampar are still successfully sold on slave auctions as pets, especially to upper nobility. Lampar pets are popular among children as they behave very well around children and can talk, as opposed to other domestic animals.

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Two instances of Nobles, especially Upper Nobility, considering them cute pets for children.

If nobles think they are cute as pets, why wouldn't others? a lot of real life trends are started by famous rich people, which would be the same in Aloria. And again, the analogy for cats and kittens. Kittens and Lampar are both pets. Stabbing and abusing animals is considered wrong and cruel. Even in Aloria, though no laws protect them really.

Another thing worth noting is Lampar are Protected in Regalia.

https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Regalian_Empire#Demographics

Meaning their abuse and murder will get you tossed in jail just like any other.

 

[Beetletoes]

Kek

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they believe in gods, just say they're dead lmao. dead god's still a god

 

[Conflee]

they believe in gods, just say they're dead lmao. dead god's still a god

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True but even Marty was calling them technical atheists. I think the technical term is like, Pantheist or something? Believing in gods but not worshiping one? IDK im not majorly into or interesting in religion-y stuff.

 

[Parz1vol]

True but even Marty was calling them technical atheists. I think the technical term is like, Pantheist or something? Believing in gods but not worshiping one? IDK im not majorly into or interesting in religion-y stuff.

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Marty miss-spoke, because having a dead God does not equal Atheism. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a God. Not having a dead God. Atheism is the refusal of God(s) existing at all.

Two instances of Nobles, especially Upper Nobility, considering them cute pets for children.

If nobles think they are cute as pets, why wouldn't others? a lot of real life trends are started by famous rich people, which would be the same in Aloria. And again, the analogy for cats and kittens. Kittens and Lampar are both pets. Stabbing and abusing animals is considered wrong and cruel. Even in Aloria, though no laws protect them really.

Another thing worth noting is Lampar are Protected in Regalia.

https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Regalian_Empire#Demographics

Meaning their abuse and murder will get you tossed in jail just like any other.

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Pets means sub-human. Seeing a wild one in the street trying to take your food with have the same result of seeing a wild dog in the street trying to take your food in a medieval society: you do everything you can to take your food back. And no matter how, "Protected," they are, how many guards are going to spend their time and energy on boxing up some Commoner's kids for playing Splat The Rat?

Either way it doesnt matter, nobody will change how they RP based on any logical or random-sentence-in-lore sources either of us can quote. And there are a million factors that can lead to any character acting how they do

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Racism is the belief that a specific race is inferior. This is more like species-ism, but it follows similar rules. The reason your example is futile is because of modern racism. Have you ever seen a racist that's been raised, die-hard to hate another race? They will call for the harm and damnation of the race/races they hate. They are incapable of empathizing with that race. You act like racists are rational people that can empathize with people of other races/species. That is a false assumption.

Im just saying, having a chunk of people not want to brutally murder the equivalent of a kitten via organ failure caused by stepping on their midsection is probably pretty normal

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See above. No one sees them as anything but cute kittens that live in the street and steal shiny and edible shit. Most Ailors are culturalized and raised to hate or dislike other races. You're ignoring that in favor of your, "Logic," which is ignoring the lore.

 

[TinySnowcloud]

Going back to Lampar, I'm just gonna point out that they're literally impossible to not be played as not-cutesy roleplay, post-Q'urebo rewrite. They forget their own language after a few years of not speaking it, cannot comprehend people disliking them, and quite literally do not care about dying or their safety. Perhaps I'm taking some liberty with paraphrasing the wiki, but at best they are extremely careless with their well-being, to the point that they act less like fully functioning individuals and more as id-like animals running around and acting completely on impulse. They are literally created to walk up to you and be friendly, and anything else is incompliant. I really hate it and think it's a waste of a unique opportunity for roleplay, but there it is.

 

[Conflee]

See above. No one sees them as anything but cute kittens that live in the street and steal shiny and edible shit. Most Ailors are culturalized and raised to hate or dislike other races. You're ignoring that in favor of your, "Logic," which is ignoring the lore.

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Im not ignoring it, im just saying that there is a good chunk of people, even who are Unionists, who probably wouldnt be ok with someone killing a Lampar randomly, just like they wouldnt be ok with someone killing a kitten randomly.

Whether someone decides to go out of their way to prevent a Lampar from being killed is an issue with White Knights, not the nature of Lampar or how they are viewed really.

 

[Parz1vol]

Im not ignoring it, im just saying that there is a good chunk of people, even who are Unionists, who probably wouldnt be ok with someone killing a Lampar randomly, just like they wouldnt be ok with someone killing a kitten randomly.

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Then you're saying something that is canonically incorrect and can not be defended using the universe the staff have made.

 

[Conflee]

Going back to Lampar, I'm just gonna point out that they're literally impossible to not be played as not-cutesy roleplay, post-Q'urebo rewrite. They forget their own language after a few years of not speaking it, cannot comprehend people disliking them, and quite literally do not care about dying or their safety. Perhaps I'm taking some liberty with paraphrasing the wiki, but at best they are extremely careless with their well-being, to the point that they act less like fully functioning individuals and more as id-like animals running around and acting completely on impulse. They are literally created to walk up to you and be friendly, and anything else is incompliant. I really hate it and think it's a waste of a unique opportunity for roleplay, but there it is.

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Not really. It is true that the existing lore- making them both ADHD AND have short term memory loss on par with Dory - does make them broken and hard to play, but its not impossible.

I have a Lampar that I like to think has broken the cliche mold. I sat down and considered what Lampar would be useful for, and came up with two major areas that arent filled.

Crime - Their size would make them amazingly stealthy and great at burglarizing houses, as well as general pick pocketing in a crowd.
Engineering - The one I ended up using, their small size would make them perfect grease-monkeys, able to slip behind and into machinery to tinker with things. Given there is an element of Steampunk in Aloria's tech, that works well.

You just have to avoid having them going around being all anime and shit. Which isnt as hard as people seem to think.

 

[Conflee]

Then you're saying something that is canonically incorrect and can not be defended using the universe the staff have made.

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Really? I just listed at least 8 reasons why my point is valid, with quotes from lore. Trying to say that nobody empathises with the Lampar at this point, or that saying that some do is noncompliant, is not an option for you anymore lol. Its been proven an invalid argument.

 

[Parz1vol]

Really? I just listed at least 8 reasons why my point is valid, with quotes from lore. Trying to say that nobody empathises with the Lampar at this point, or that saying that some do is noncompliant, is not an option for you anymore lol. Its been proven an invalid argument.

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That's funny because I rebutted all of your points well. I'm sorry. Loss is difficult.

Crime - Their size would make them amazingly stealthy and great at burglarizing houses, as well as general pick pocketing in a crowd.
Engineering - The one I ended up using, their small size would make them perfect grease-monkeys, able to slip behind and into machinery to tinker with things. Given there is an element of Steampunk in Aloria's tech, that works well.

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I'm baffled at how either of these is even slightly compliant? Stealing, sure, makes more sense. Engineering though? Streako is right. You can't really play them any differently than cutesy-waste-of-air id-monster.

 

[TinySnowcloud]

Not really. It is true that the existing lore- making them both ADHD AND have short term memory loss on par with Dory - does make them broken and hard to play, but its not impossible.

I have a Lampar that I like to think has broken the cliche mold. I sat down and considered what Lampar would be useful for, and came up with two major areas that arent filled.

Crime - Their size would make them amazingly stealthy and great at burglarizing houses, as well as general pick pocketing in a crowd.
Engineering - The one I ended up using, their small size would make them perfect grease-monkeys, able to slip behind and into machinery to tinker with things. Given there is an element of Steampunk in Aloria's tech, that works well.

You just have to avoid having them going around being all anime and shit. Which isnt as hard as people seem to think.

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That's great, but the fact still remains that they cannot behave differently. You've simply found a niche-- which is great, don't get me wrong-- but you've not solved the problem of Lampar by necessity acting cutesy and friendly. Their personalities and thoughts are stunted.

 

[Conflee]

That's funny because I rebutted all of your points well. I'm sorry. Loss is difficult.

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Not really. You rebutted the psychological arguments because they are based on real life and I cant quote the wiki for real life. The in-lore quotes, about how Nobles keep them as pets and they are considered protected, are still 100% valid. You just dismissed them because you- and hell even IIIII- have become far to invested in make believe rat people and how they might be viewed at this point.

Can we just leave it at, its fine and compliant for there to at least be a chunk- say like 1/5th- of the Ailor in Regalia to not just be fine watching them be killed randomly? Seems fair enough, and has been my whole point this whole time XD

 

[Beetletoes]

ADHD

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I'm sorry, where on the Lampar page does it mention ADHD?

 

[Conflee]

That's great, but the fact still remains that they cannot behave differently. You've simply found a niche-- which is great, don't get me wrong-- but you've not solved the problem of Lampar by necessity acting cutesy and friendly. Their personalities and thoughts are stunted.

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Its more about just. Trying to carve out that niche, or people finding their own. Its hard but I think if people really wanted to make a good Lampar, they could do so. The issue is a lot of people see "Aww kwety animooo waaace yaaaay" and instantly make cringe characters that they abandon after like a day .

I'm sorry, where on the Lampar page does it mention ADHD?

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It doesnt directly say ADHD but they have issues focusing on anything for like, any amount of time, and are super hyper. They are basically hardcore ADHD ol

 

[Parz1vol]

Pets means sub-human. Seeing a wild one in the street trying to take your food with have the same result of seeing a wild dog in the street trying to take your food in a medieval society: you do everything you can to take your food back.

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Not really. You rebutted the psychological arguments because they are based on real life and I cant quote the wiki for real life. The in-lore quotes, about how Nobles keep them as pets and they are considered protected, are still 100% valid. You just dismissed them because you- and hell even IIIII- have become far to invested in make believe rat people and how they might be viewed at this point.

Can we just leave it at, its fine and compliant for there to at least be a chunk- say like 1/5th- of the Ailor in Regalia to not just be fine watching them be killed randomly? Seems fair enough, and has been my whole point this whole time XD

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I'd like you to read that quote of my post once again, but sure. I'm content with ending the discussion.

 

[TinySnowcloud]

Its more about just. Trying to carve out that niche, or people finding their own. Its hard but I think if people really wanted to make a good Lampar, they could do so. The issue is a lot of people see "Aww kwety animooo waaace yaaaay" and instantly make cringe characters that they abandon after like a day .

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I agree with you that people react to Lampar that way, but I don't think carving out a niche is good enough. As I've repeatedly stated, Lampar are specifically made to be cutesy. You can put them somewhere that they don't constantly act it, but it's how they are. It wasn't always the case, but the rewrite repurposed Lampar specifically to be cutesy characters that can only be played that way.

As I see it, Staff decided that the niche was created and that, rather than have the whole Q'urebo turn into only cringeworthy cutesy roleplay, they would cordon off all of that to the Lampar. Do I know that? No. But why else would they make it so that Lampar literally, and I quote, "cannot under any circumstance understand why anyone would dislike them". They are made to be cutesy and no other way. As they stand right now, there is no way to roleplay a Lampar seriously. I commend @Omnomivore (pardon my tagging you, but you've already been tagged and you likely have better insight than me, if you at all care) for playing N'omiel for so long, but in the same breath I must say that I fail to see how she's changed. And sure, perhaps that's the point of the race, but I simply feel that it's a waste to require that they all behave like that. Regardless of whether or not it's compliant, people will do cutesy roleplay; I don't see why the whole race should be devoted to such. Their whole 'cuteness' trait has been so overblown that basically every Lampar is exactly the same.

 

[TinySnowcloud]

I agree with you that people react to Lampar that way, but I don't think carving out a niche is good enough. As I've repeatedly stated, Lampar are specifically made to be cutesy. You can put them somewhere that they don't constantly act it, but it's how they are. It wasn't always the case, but the rewrite repurposed Lampar specifically to be cutesy characters that can only be played that way.

As I see it, Staff decided that the niche was created and that, rather than have the whole Q'urebo turn into only cringeworthy cutesy roleplay, they would cordon off all of that to the Lampar. Do I know that? No. But why else would they make it so that Lampar literally, and I quote, "cannot under any circumstance understand why anyone would dislike them". They are made to be cutesy and no other way. As they stand right now, there is no way to roleplay a Lampar seriously. I commend @Omnomivore (pardon my tagging you, but you've already been tagged and you likely have better insight than me, if you at all care) for playing N'omiel for so long, but in the same breath I must say that I fail to see how she's changed. And sure, perhaps that's the point of the race, but I simply feel that it's a waste to require that they all behave like that. Regardless of whether or not it's compliant, people will do cutesy roleplay; I don't see why the whole race should be devoted to such. Their whole 'cuteness' trait has been so overblown that basically every Lampar is exactly the same.

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I apologize, I recognize I'm simply complaining in these paragraphs, but I feel that suggesting solutions would at this time be wasted since I don't think we're even in agreement that there may be a problem.