What Would Make You Want To Pvp?
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soapboxstage
a muppet of a man
I can admit, the economy isn't getting better, I may need to learn to pvp one day.
May I also bring up the idea of either buffing, or adding block damage to tnt. I feel as if this would create a outlook to make raiding and pvp easier for people who don't know how to turn a mouse at lightspeeds and spam the mouse button while scrolling through a hotbar. I feel as if it would bring us to a thinktank age where we could use intellegence to defend ourselves and to attack others...
May I also bring up the idea of either buffing, or adding block damage to tnt. I feel as if this would create a outlook to make raiding and pvp easier for people who don't know how to turn a mouse at lightspeeds and spam the mouse button while scrolling through a hotbar. I feel as if it would bring us to a thinktank age where we could use intellegence to defend ourselves and to attack others...
Kaezir
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I started PvPing because I wanted to learn how to fight against raiders. It looked fun and I had tons of fun. I eventually gave up though because of the necessity to constantly keep up with resources. Most of my cash goes straight into building. I'm ALWAYS building. So as the rest of my faction doesn't PvP it's hard to even begin to see a myself making a profit from raiding. I can't afford both. I know a lot of people who can't even fully afford one. Sure you can learn the market and other monetary tricks but personally, I don't have the drive to keep up with the curve and I just want to build and interact with the community. Would happily add PvP onto that list if I didn't have to keep up with potions. Armor and weapons are pretty easy. Potions, not so much.
More people trying out PVP starts with you. So what if not many people do it? Why not just attempt it, you might influence some of your friends to try it too which means more people.
I agree that getting potions, armor, and weapons to PVP with is hard. But you shouldn't let that stop you. If you own a faction (I think you're co-leader of Northwatch?) you can easily ask members to brew pots. Thought it might not be the most amusing of jobs to be assigned to, if you tell them that it's beneficial to the protection and safety of the faction I'm sure they'll do it.
-I feel like you get the "barbaric" vibe from the amount of flame in general sometimes. You can be a PVP'er and still be chill. Most PVP'ers aren't that flamey when you actually have a decent conversation with them.
-Kind of getting the feeling that you take PVP a bit too seriously, you're not actually harming anyone. War declarations are simply something to implement lore into the situation.
-The levels system you are suggesting doesn't seem too fun. It's always amusing to have a challenge, and go out of your comfort zone. I assure you if you're that dedicated to learning how to PVP you will eventually become decent.
-Doing homework isn't fun. Minecraft is a game meant for fun. PVP may be a waste of time but at least you're enjoying it.
Suzzie
elf appreciator
I would PvP if I had more than a white girl macbook and trackpad.
Oh, and if I didn't suck. That too.
Oh, and if I didn't suck. That too.
My personal opinion:How to get players into PvP:
- Eliminate majority of potions (Everything except Str2 and Speed2), This removes the learning curve for spam potting.
- Create classes specializing in different combat {Swords, Axes, Bows, Unarmed} with a custom skill tree. This supports individually preferred combat styles.
- Find a way to make traps more efficient and more interesting, because currently TnT is not a viable form of defence (Half a heart to garmor). Best way to do this is with better-developed magic and cannons.
- Implementing more enchants that make weapons more unique: (Hexxit Enchants provided for example)
1. Fiery Aura
Causes any mob that deals physical damage to you (like a zombie) to be set on fire.
2. Exude
Causes the withering effect to cause damage to the player at a slower rate.
3. Vitality
4 Ranks: 5%/10%/15%/20% chance to apply damage to hunger bar instead of life.
4. Soulsteal
Not to be confused with Soul Stealer. With Soulsteal , when a mob dies it releases its soul to be used with the Essence Vessel from Harken Scythe mod. 3 Ranks: 33% / 66% / 100% chance upon death to release a soul
5. Focus
Can be applied to swords. Makes augment abilities charge faster.
6. Afterlife
- Rank 1: 1.5x faster
- Rank 2: 2x faster
3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance the target will drop a mob egg of its type when killed. This does not work on all mob types in the game, even though some new entities show spawn eggs in the not enough items menu.
7. Decapitate
Applicable to axes through the enchantment table, and all other weapons via an enchanted book and anvil. This enchantment is also available for boomerangs through an enchantment table.
8. Blight
- 3 Ranks: 33% /66% /100% chance on killing of a mob for it to drop its head.
Applicable only to bows. Withers the target for several seconds depend on rank.
9. Sanguinary
- 3 Ranks: 5/10/15 second wither debuff on target.
When a shield deals damage to a target via thorns enchantment, it will heal the holder. Depends on rank.
10. Ward
- 3 Ranks:
When blocking with an shield, the player has a chance to gain an extra shield durability.
11. Soul Attuned
- 3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance on a successful block to regain an extra shield durability
When an Amulet or Talisman from Harken Scythe is soul attuned the cost of souls is doubled while the cost of blood is removed for each use.
12. Soul Tether
If the player dies, any items enchanted with soul tether will return to the inventory after the player respawns.
13. Magnetization
Causes Items to gravitate towards the player, much like experience does.
-Eliminating health potions would just make for shorter and faster fights. New people who want to learn how to PVP might get discouraged if they get killed within like 10 seconds against a Raptum member.
-This is a good idea :^)
-If you listened to 99.9% of PVP'ers they will tell you they hate traps. Traps are simply stupid and take the fun out of PVP. PVP isn't supposed to consist of running into a string trap right after repotting, please actually fight.
-I feel that the enchants will just get straight up confusing. I personally wouldn't have the patience to read about and memorize what all of these enchants do.
You can buy a mouse if you want, so you don't have to fight with a trackpad. Your skill level isn't purely dependent on the computer you have. I know Mac's usually have wicked low FPS, but you can get easily get 85 FPS (which is generally decent) with the correct texture pack and Optifine. Pretty sure some PVP'ers wouldn't mind training you if you asked them.
Kaezir
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It's also along the lines, the more you PvP, the more people will try and PvP with you. It was fun fighting Raptum and Wolves but it eventually got to the point where the build itch was getting to me after a few days of raids. It's a difficult balance. Rest of my members lost motivation in the end. We managed to gather about 10 dubs of health and 2 dubs of every other potion but those ran out in less than five days and at that point they just didn't want to even try. They felt the money could have just gone to surrendering and atleast then they'd be able to build and do whatever in peace for a month. I feel like that is what a lot of other factions think too. Which is disappointing considering how fun those days were.
Yes, there is a difficult balance between building and PVP. If you really would like to implement PVP and encourage people in your faction to learn how to PVP, you could always make a separate raid base from your main town to PVP in. Doesn't have to be anything fancy (for ex; Tyberia's /tp raidea its just a box). Try making alliances with other PVP'ers, they can help you fight against raiders. You also have a decreased chance of dying if you have more PVP'ers on your side, which means less potions used in the end. Perhaps some of your members haven't actually tried PVP'ing. Try taking some of your members to Kit PVP, they might develop a like for it.
Last_Link
Dont be that guy
Less powerful pvp factions would probably help alot, there would be much more reason for people to fight if they have a chance of winning.
65jes89
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Change your display name temporarily when you pvp? I mean, people with high-value heads are targeted more, obviously, but I feel like staff ought to have some way to get around that.
Smaller factions that want to participate in PVP should band together/create an alliance instead of fighting each other, and compete against the more powerful PVP factions (Raptum, and etc.) I don't think bigger factions should kick members and become "less powerful" for the benefit of others.
65jes89
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This ^^^
If you want to be a power faction, do it. You don't have to rely on other factions to kick people. I mean, SunKiss became a faction, literally overnight, when we first got into pvp. If you get the right officers, you learn how to pvp yourself (that's honestly the hardest and most important part), and then don't expect half raptum to immediately join you overnight. If you're patient, and especially willing to teach, you will get some really good pvpers eventually. SunKiss started off with a bunch of my friends and their friends who decided to all join SunKiss. Excluding myself and avenginq, pretty much nobody was any good at PvP at the time. But, we had numbers, pots, etc., and so even in our first fights with other, established, factions, we did pretty well, all things considered. Overtime, you teach said members to pvp, they get better, and so on, until you have a pretty damned good faction. It's not hard, it just takes a bit of dedication and thought.
Last_Link
Dont be that guy
Collectives have proven to not work well in the past, when it comes down to it most non pvp factions arnt willing to pvp.
The server doesn't just want to appeal to new people, but the current PVP community too. Trolling raiders with traps is not PVP. RP'ers and new players to the server who are trying out PVP will not get the drop on a veteran PVP'er with or without pots, I can assure you that. Unless they're some god. New players and RP'ers are unfamiliar with how PVP on the server works and the game mechanics/strategy of it. The server shouldn't completely re-vamp PVP, but rather make minor changes that are easy to adjust to. Along with these minor changes, PVP should be advertised to RP'ers. Somehow the staff should find a way to mix PVP and RP together so it appeals to both sides
Again, band with people outside of your faction. Make new alliances.
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BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
I basically haven't touched PvP in any meaningful way for the past 3+ months because there's literally just no point. Despite what people say about god weapons and armor being expensive, they have never been less expensive and I don't think I've ever seen a faction ever actually use surrendering as an option for the past 2 years making any raids absolutely pointless. The only way I PvP now is if it literally lands in my lap.
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I'd have to disagree. Redstone defenses and traps are just another side of pvp that I think should be more developed. Let those of us with a creative side put our skills to use in battle.
Imaging being able to build siege engine and catapults...
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If you're going to say that then pvp should be nothing but unarmed combat since its really weapon vs player. I guess whenever I kill another player with a trap in Rainbow Six Siege I didn't actually kill them either. Damn.
Rainbow Six Siege and Minecraft are completely different games. When you go on PVP servers (Badlion and etc. not advertising just an example) they aren't killing people with traps, rather actually fighting and hitting them with weapons in melee combat.
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Neither is Badlion the same as Massivecraft. They don't have Factions or any building afaik. Also, there are plenty of other arena pvp servers that allow tnt cannons and manipulation of the world to gain an advantage.
There was a game called Ace of Spades that was a lot like Minecraft that did this. Then Jagex bought them and ruined it lol
Last_Link
Dont be that guy
New mechanics in the factions world meant to help pvp would be great. I dont know how it would be done, but if you could possibly win land after a war that would be bangin.
soapboxstage
a muppet of a man
problem is: you have to have friends...
can we call toku human, not with those skills...
isn't there an unspoken rule about this? keeping pvpers and rpers on there own grounds? anywho isn't there a spoken rule about this:
don't kill unless you have kill perms...
Suzzie
elf appreciator
This computer is kinda screwed FPS wise. My render distance needs to be 2 to get a constant 30 FPS.
65jes89
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BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
You are obviously unable to comprehend the fact that there is a difference between killing someone yourself and sitting in safety while another player is killed by a trap. The reason trapping is not "PvP" is because it isn't player versus player it is trap versus player. All it is is one player sitting inside pulling levers hoping someone falls inside while the other avoids them.
I don't understand how anyone actually takes enjoyment by trapping unless you are simply a troll because it is literally one of the most boring and desperate way of "fighting back", if you can even call it that.
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This is all just based on your opinion of how you think other people should be playing the game. Well guess what, not everyone likes the same things as you. Traps ARE a part of pvp no matter what you think simply because they can and are used and are actually useful. I think what some of you aren't able to comprehend is that other people play differently than what is considered the 'right' way to play by the pvp community. Forcing everyone to basically 'get gud' or not pvp is only going to prevent people from pvping further.
I think building and using redstone IS fun. Just because you prefer to go head to head doesn't make you right. I also have ideas meant for attackers using redstone so its not all about defenders setting traps and then going and hiding btw.
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BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
It's not that hard to understand, but if you need me to explain to you why trapping is not PvP, I'll make it clear for you once again.
PvP involves two opposing sides fighting one another. Trapping simply does not involve this (unless you've made a really shitty trap). In almost every single case of trapping you will clearly see that one player, the trapper, is putting nothing on the line. They are not going to die no matter what happens and can only gain from an exchange because they are doing the equivalent of hiding inside while the other player is actually putting their lives and items on the line. Trapping is not PvP plain and simple. There is no right way to PvP, and you're allowed to have fun doing whatever you want, even if I think it's boring as hell.
Traps definitely affect PvP but I don't think you can really go around saying you're a "PvPer" if all you do is sit around in your base pulling levers, hoping the people outside decide to jump into your traps.
More people trying out PVP starts with you. So what if not many people do it? Why not just attempt it, you might influence some of your friends to try it too which means more people.
Sorry, but I've been there and done that multiple times and I'm tired of it. It seems really silly to put effort into actively Pvping on massive, not enjoying myself, and hope that things pick up a bit, when I could just not do that and stick to using it as a survival server, and quickly hop on some other server(where fighting is much more prevalent and I don't have to struggle to get involved) when I want a bit of action.
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@BenRekt so you are saying then if somebody isnt good at PVP they either need to surrender or continue to get slaughtered? Because you are saying that unless its Player versus Player in the most literal of sense.. then it shouldnt happen. I think using traps is effective. Its an alternative to fighting. Do I do it personally? No. But I understand why those who cannot fight would do that instead.
BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
Not saying that it should be outlawed and people are scum for doing it, just saying that trapping isn't really the same as PvP, because it isn't.
It definitely isnt. But I think Massive honestly should do more to entice those people to come out and fight. On the threads where the HCF classes were proposed, stuff like that would help. There isnt anything making PVP appealing to those who dont do it all the time
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Is this seriously about what people call themselves? If so, then I'm ending this argument right here. My posts were supposed to be about finding ways for people that aren't necessarily 'good' at pvp to still participate in it. If we are in agreement then what are we arguing for?
spoonly
people need to hear it sometimes
is this discussion about pvp in general, like on any game? or just minecraft pvp, because in that case...
BenRekt
Chopper Gunner
PvP sucks because there's no meaning behind it and no end goal, don't see how removing potions would change that in any way. Also, please notice how you are literally the only one clamoring for the removal of basically all potions.
No offense poky but you must realize that if health potions were removed, every fight would literally go on for 2 seconds before one side was completely smashed. Creating a system where people get smashed in less than 2 seconds because you don't know how to effectively fight and heal at the same time is not the answer, because all that's going to accomplish is making sure nobody ever even attempts to PvP on Massive with the threat of losing semi-valuable items in less than a split second. You are then effectively encouraging one side to sit inside their base and trap other players instead of having interesting fights, which is the opposite of what you'd want on a server like Massive. And lets not even go into the repercussions that would have on the PvP community, because I can assure you, 99% of PvPers would run for the hills if a change as dramatic as removing health potions was made.
Guess we are in agreement that traps are not the same as PvP then, seemed like you were arguing that trapping were effectively the same as going head to head with someone though, so maybe make an edit and clarify that.
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I wasn't saying that trapping is effectively the same as head to head combat no. When I say 'PvP' I meant it as in general, players acting against one another, and both traps and hitting eachother with axes falls under that.
"another side of pvp" as opposed to "is pvp"
Honestly, I've never been big on the fact that half the skill in Pvp is how good you are at fiddling with your inventory either. But that's how mojang designed their game. Really, there's not much that can be done about it aside from flat out disabling potions, which would be silly since it would just make the Pvpers that massive already has quit most likely. You mentioned previously though that people lose lots of potions while trying to get better, and a few others said they don't like the effort that has to be put into equipment, materials, etc. in order to fight. What if potions weren't dropped upon death, just like armor? This would mean that people only 'lose' potions that they actually use, so inexperienced Pvpers wouldn't spend time brewing pots with the few materials they have and then get quick dropped straight away and lose like 25 of them, and go through an endless cycle of wasting materials because they keep losing. Potions are barely worth anything anyways, at least in comparison to a weapon(which would still drop). I'm indifferent to this idea, it was just a thought.
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