What Would Make You Want To Pvp?

Neckerei

Neckerei

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I wanted to ask people that dont pvp or dont seriously pvp why they dont? Is there anything that staff could do to make pvp more appealing? Any reccomendations to make factions more appealing?
 
A good reason I've seen around that people don't PVP is because it's hard to get into, and I can kinda agree. If you're coming from the Roleplay scene and trying to get into PVP, the first thing you need to do is buy the armour, weapons and potions that you need if you're serious about becoming a PVPer. This is the first problem as not everyone's got the money that's needed as a start up of sorts, and this segways onto the next problem: item loss. This might just be me, but I don't particularly want to start PVPing, buy my start up set for ~1000 regals, go into my first battle and... die in a minute, losing everything in my inventory and my pride. While sure, the loot drop system is fine and kinda has to be there for there to be any reward for raiding in the way of item value, it's not too fun having to rebuy everything every time you die (unless of course the raider gives it back to you, that's chill.) Finally, there's the fact that it's pretty damn near impossible to get proper PVP raid training done due to the fact that everybody else is so good at it. Picture it like this:

There's two groups going to war, Faction A and Faction B, A is attacking B's home city. With A, they have 5 fighters, 4 of whom are seasoned veterans who've been PVPing for years and have a reputation as some of the server's strongest fighters. They also have somebody who's recently started PVPing, perhaps they just joined the server or perhaps they're like me and have simply done the other side of the server for four years and wanted to branch out. If B has it's own group of renowned fighters, the chances are that A is going to lose due to the fact that their rookie has little to no combat experience and will probably be killed instantly. And while, yes, one can get combat training elsewhere such as the minigame servers and here on Massive, when up against people who've trained for ages and ages, they're probably gonna get wiped out in minutes, leaving the rest of the team to pick up the pieces. This is obviously gonna discourage people from keeping at it due to the hefty costs that PVPing can have, and while one could argue that the RP community need constant practice and ability in order to get into the "top band" as it were, the difference there is that RP is only held back by one's own creative abilty and people skills, while PVP requires both combat skill and the money to be able to get to the top, the need for currency being the key difference here.


TL;DR PVP costs a lot of money, is discouraging, is hard to get into due to others rekking you and isn't the reason most come to this particular server.
 
BadarseBarbas said:
A good reason I've seen around that people don't PVP is because it's hard to get into, and I can kinda agree. If you're coming from the Roleplay scene and trying to get into PVP, the first thing you need to do is buy the armour, weapons and potions that you need if you're serious about becoming a PVPer. This is the first problem as not everyone's got the money that's needed as a start up of sorts, and this segways onto the next problem: item loss. This might just be me, but I don't particularly want to start PVPing, buy my start up set for ~1000 regals, go into my first battle and... die in a minute, losing everything in my inventory and my pride. While sure, the loot drop system is fine and kinda has to be there for there to be any reward for raiding in the way of item value, it's not too fun having to rebuy everything every time you die (unless of course the raider gives it back to you, that's chill.) Finally, there's the fact that it's pretty damn near impossible to get proper PVP raid training done due to the fact that everybody else is so good at it. Picture it like this:

There's two groups going to war, Faction A and Faction B, A is attacking B's home city. With A, they have 5 fighters, 4 of whom are seasoned veterans who've been PVPing for years and have a reputation as some of the server's strongest fighters. They also have somebody who's recently started PVPing, perhaps they just joined the server or perhaps they're like me and have simply done the other side of the server for four years and wanted to branch out. If B has it's own group of renowned fighters, the chances are that A is going to lose due to the fact that their rookie has little to no combat experience and will probably be killed instantly. And while, yes, one can get combat training elsewhere such as the minigame servers and here on Massive, when up against people who've trained for ages and ages, they're probably gonna get wiped out in minutes, leaving the rest of the team to pick up the pieces. This is obviously gonna discourage people from keeping at it due to the hefty costs that PVPing can have, and while one could argue that the RP community need constant practice and ability in order to get into the "top band" as it were, the difference there is that RP is only held back by one's own creative abilty and people skills, while PVP requires both combat skill and the money to be able to get to the top, the need for currency being the key difference here.


TL;DR PVP costs a lot of money, is discouraging, is hard to get into due to others rekking you and isn't the reason most come to this particular server.
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I agree with alot of what you stated i do believe people see pvp being to hard to get into. Heres my input on the dying in 1 minute thing. Try to find someone to train with in Kit if you train youll start to feel more confident and your chances of dying wont be as high and if you do thats ok thats just more experience. Now as far as getting the gear that is something that is hard for many people i understand that. Especialy DRing to get enough money or high enough stats.
 
Personally, I don't PvP because there's not much point to it. I find it enjoyable from time to time, but at my skill level, I lose far more then I gain. Beyond that, when I do succeed in killing someone else, there is very little gain beyond whatever god weapon they were fighting me with (which are easy to obtain in my opinion, so it's not much a reward, along with it only allowing me to continue PvPing) and a few potions which are even easier to make mass quantities of. Furthermore, I find it rare that people will continue PvPing, at least beyond factions such as Raptum, which outskill me. This results in me standing around, hoping people will come out and PvP.

To fix it? To state the obvious, people need a reason to PvP, i find that in this community those with the skill to PvP are far fewer then those without. People need to feel they have a chance of winning and there needs to be more gain from actually killing someone. I recently found a good thread that I think would resolve this by @jes_ , and if you haven't seen it, I'll leave it as a spoiler here-
https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...n-to-traits-and-uniqueness.48951/#post-592509
 
I'd probably PvP if I had the option to do something besides such at melee combat. Right now the only option is archery, which is basically hoping you are a decent shot from far away.

I really like the HCF idea though, and would totally get behind a bard/healer class.
 
I actually might get more into combat (both pvp and pve) when MassiveMagic comes out. Other than that, it simply isn't interesting enough to pull me away from rp.
 
Squeaker555 said:
I actually might get more into combat (both pvp and pve) when MassiveMagic comes out. Other than that, it simply isn't interesting enough to pull me away from rp.
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yeah i promised to myself that once massivemagic comes out i'll pvp even if it doesn't really add a ton to combat overall

other than that maybe i'll pvp to talk big then get killed by lil rp factions to maybe boost their confidence

also the banter if pvp chat were a thing you couldn't keep me away from pvp
 
Betterer said:
Dodging, arrow dodging, disarm, iron grip, etc.
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I don't think dodging actually works, at least it doesn't send the message anymore. Arrow dodging only actually works if your hand is empty, so it's kind of overrated and learning to actually strafe archers properly works better. Disarm and iron grip are legitimate concerns, but it's kinda taboo to use. I agree that one sucks though.
 
I used to like pvp alot, but now I dont find it as fun as I used to. Besides having to put alot of time into it I feel like the odds of winning are never in my favor, before casual pvpers could pvp against other casual pvpers. But now you kind of have to go all in if you ever want to win in a fight against someone from say, Raptum.
 
Only genuine problem you can have fighting is unarmed and not having absorp. Economy is broken enough to get a few sets a day smh low tier fam
 
Thanks for all the input peeps. Any more ideas you have would be appreciated. Also i want to ask do you think theres anything the players themselves could do to get you into pvp?
 
Neckerei said:
Thanks for all the input peeps. Any more ideas you have would be appreciated. Also i want to ask do you think there's anything the players themselves could do to get you into pvp?
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Well the economy is player run, and I think that that's having some level of impact on PvP. As I had said, there's little gain from PvP because you cant gain much more then a God Weapon (now worth very little) and some potions (which as far as i'm aware, no one buys). So if the player base, say, sacrificed all god weapons and armor to the great fire and mutually agreed to never use /fix nor Gift4All again, we'd be great!

(That was uh...all a joke. Sorry to be unproductive, but I personally cant think of a good way to fix this on our own, but I may just be uncreative. We could always get Raptum to greet and train new players and teach them the ways of PvP :D)
 
I feel it can be unbalanced at times. From time and time again I try to pvp, I, one, have absolutely no armor, that is good. I usually use the (fill in armor name)4all, which to be honest aren't as good as say somebody who hand enchanted sharp five, and armor with protection, and other scrutiny-inducing items. Not that MCMMO doesn't add much to combat, I think it's really painful when I even sneak attack someone, it is difficult, I keep a one sharp eye on the percentage, before I can see the darn health bar hit 50% I'm already a Docked-Sushi roll (should make that a user name, or a sushi bar name). Quote I pvped in factions, and in pvp hubs, and I'm speaking for both, which brings up factions being really difficult for beginners. Thanks to this, and pvp in general, I seem to lock myself safely in the walls of Regalia, and rp factions that have tall as hell walls, or just have so many houses to jump in-between. I don't have as many critiques as I would give, because I don't pvp period, I've had my past, and I see no skill in it, aside from who can spam m1 faster than trump becoming a meme. Which I feel there should be more strategy to it, more tactical and thinking on your feet (No timing potions and sniping eachother with bows don't count, and shields don't either because the two might as well be taking turns hitting each other.). Few thoughts and things that baffle/bother me.
 
I think that if I weren't so bad at pvp, I would be more into it. But more seriously, the alchemy nerf really was a big hit on me as far as my interest in pvping as that was my main field, I was a brewer. Being bad at pvp didn't prevent me from being able to enjoy it in the past. I had a great group to head out with and wouldn't even care that I was about to get slaughtered by traxex.
 
If some pvpers gave back weapons or occassionaly even gave training or supplies do you guys think it would increase your odds to pvp more often?
 
Neckerei said:
I wanted to ask people that dont pvp or dont seriously pvp why they dont? Is there anything that staff could do to make pvp more appealing? Any reccomendations to make factions more appealing?
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well, pvp is often used as a way to harm other people and i honestly see pvp as a un-intellectual way to gain money in the society by taking from others. This brings us back to a barbaric society. This society of which we are always at war with each other when things could be simply negotiated to create a peaceful situation. Though, this is only in factions pvp. I think a levels system where people fight other of their skill level would probably hook me into pvp but otherwise, I feel as if it is a mindless waste of time where I could be doing homework or rping or maybe even helping my friends in my fac...
 
Cpt_Manta_Ray said:
well, pvp is often used as a way to harm other people and i honestly see pvp as a un-intellectual way to gain money in the society by taking from others. This brings us back to a barbaric society. This society of which we are always at war with each other when things could be simply negotiated to create a peaceful situation. Though, this is only in factions pvp. I think a levels system where people fight other of their skill level would probably hook me into pvp but otherwise, I feel as if it is a mindless waste of time where I could be doing homework or rping or maybe even helping my friends in my fac...
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You're joking right
 
Cpt_Manta_Ray said:
well, pvp is often used as a way to harm other people and i honestly see pvp as a un-intellectual way to gain money in the society by taking from others. This brings us back to a barbaric society. This society of which we are always at war with each other when things could be simply negotiated to create a peaceful situation. Though, this is only in factions pvp. I think a levels system where people fight other of their skill level would probably hook me into pvp but otherwise, I feel as if it is a mindless waste of time where I could be doing homework or rping or maybe even helping my friends in my fac...
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Im'a have to disagree with you. Alot of people raid for fun, it's a game, and fighting is a part of it that many people enjoy. I dont think its always for gain, that's just a feature that encourages more to participate. Regardless, I find it odd to look at it as a negative, "barbaric" as you said. Its a game and its fun, no need for people to get worked up over it.
 
Nyrock said:
Im'a have to disagree with you. Alot of people raid for fun, it's a game, and fighting is a part of it that many people enjoy. I dont think its always for gain, that's just a feature that encourages more to participate. Regardless, I find it odd to look at it as a negative, "barbaric" as you said. Its a game and its fun, no need for people to get worked up over it.
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I can understand your situation and this is my opinion. I would feel good about it if it was "friendly competition"
but seriosly this has happened to me many times when someone just raides you "just for lolz" as stated in the rules
I feel as if many pvpers are barbaric and tend to raid just to show superiority or power over others.
 
Cpt_Manta_Ray said:
I can understand your situation and this is my opinion. I would feel good about it if it was "friendly competition"
but seriosly this has happened to me many times when someone just raides you "just for lolz" as stated in the rules
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its literally just for fun, if no ones one you can fight, people are going to get bored and want to find someone to fight - factions is pvp smh
Cpt_Manta_Ray said:
I feel as if many pvpers are barbaric and tend to raid just to show superiority or power over others.
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objectively bad opinion - "i dont want competition in a game how is it fair others are better and are showing they are better"??????? epic
 
Cpt_Manta_Ray said:
i honestly see pvp as a un-intellectual way to gain money
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what bro, pvp uses a lot of resource management, like, a ton. you have to keep track of what items you got on you, how much of them you've got left, how much time you've got left on your potions, you've got to keep your hot bar up to check, your health and food bar status, your armor health, weapon health, and on top of that, you need to keep track of all of these things in your opponent, as well as their location at all times.

you can't really call pvp un-intellectual.
 
B0W said:
its literally just for fun, if no ones one you can fight, people are going to get bored and want to find someone to fight - factions is pvp smh

objectively bad opinion - "i dont want competition in a game how is it fair others are better and are showing they are better"??????? epic
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Ok I see your points, I will just stick to rp then. But seriosly, running into asteria to kill a guy in the middle of building then killing him again and again and again as he tries to continually go build even though one's f home is blocked by raiders and gaining nothing... meh, my opinion is irrelevant. This is why i go to school, cri...
 
It would take a huge overhaul that is just not possible. For example:

1. Potions would have to last longer (5-10min depending on the potion and tier) but more expensive.
2. Hunger disabled in combat.
3. Armor that does not go away when broken, just becomes useless until repaired.
4. lock-on 3rd person combat with auto attack and unique abilities. (like WoW)

Actually most of it is just getting rid of all the micro managing of potions and hunger. I just really hate that stuff.

Edit:

5. Most pvp seems to be just for the fun of killing people. That isn't really my thing. I'd prefer if there were some kind of lore-based reason for fighting someone.
 
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For me to PvP, minecraft would have to become a completely different game.

Minecraft PvP has some big flaws:
1) PvP tends to involve some grinding and that is a big turn off for me (pots, weapons, mcmmo xp).
2) There is not much strategy, all players use similar equipment with the same enchantments and even if they use different enchantments or traits there are no visual cues to react to that.
3) The system is not comfortable for combat, refilling the item bar mid combat is awkward to say the least and using the different item slots is cumbersome for me.

Minecraft excels at promoting creative building and establishing social links between players but sucks at promoting strategic and fluid combat. PvP introduces a danger element that mobs cannot produce so I have to watch over my shoulder and build secure bases and that is fun. Actually fighting raiders is not fun for me.
 
BadarseBarbas said:
A good reason I've seen around that people don't PVP is because it's hard to get into, and I can kinda agree.
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Neckerei said:
I wanted to ask people that dont pvp or dont seriously pvp why they dont? Is there anything that staff could do to make pvp more appealing? Any reccomendations to make factions more appealing?
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How to get players into PvP:
- Eliminate majority of potions (Everything except Str2 and Speed2), This removes the learning curve for spam potting.

- Create classes specializing in different combat {Swords, Axes, Bows, Unarmed} with a custom skill tree. This supports individually preferred combat styles.

- Find a way to make traps more efficient and more interesting, because currently TnT is not a viable form of defence (Half a heart to garmor). Best way to do this is with better-developed magic and cannons.

- Implementing more enchants that make weapons more unique: (Hexxit Enchants provided for example)
1. Fiery Aura
Causes any mob that deals physical damage to you (like a zombie) to be set on fire.

2. Exude
Causes the withering effect to cause damage to the player at a slower rate.

3. Vitality
4 Ranks: 5%/10%/15%/20% chance to apply damage to hunger bar instead of life.

4. Soulsteal
Not to be confused with Soul Stealer. With Soulsteal , when a mob dies it releases its soul to be used with the Essence Vessel from Harken Scythe mod. 3 Ranks: 33% / 66% / 100% chance upon death to release a soul

5. Focus
Can be applied to swords. Makes augment abilities charge faster.

  • Rank 1: 1.5x faster
  • Rank 2: 2x faster
6. Afterlife
3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance the target will drop a mob egg of its type when killed. This does not work on all mob types in the game, even though some new entities show spawn eggs in the not enough items menu.

7. Decapitate
Applicable to axes through the enchantment table, and all other weapons via an enchanted book and anvil. This enchantment is also available for boomerangs through an enchantment table.

  • 3 Ranks: 33% /66% /100% chance on killing of a mob for it to drop its head.
8. Blight
Applicable only to bows. Withers the target for several seconds depend on rank.

  • 3 Ranks: 5/10/15 second wither debuff on target.
9. Sanguinary
When a shield deals damage to a target via thorns enchantment, it will heal the holder. Depends on rank.

  • 3 Ranks: / / health healed. Cannot be directly enchanted to shields, can only be enchanted through an enchanted book and an anvil.
10. Ward
When blocking with an shield, the player has a chance to gain an extra shield durability.

  • 3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance on a successful block to regain an extra shield durability
11. Soul Attuned
When an Amulet or Talisman from Harken Scythe is soul attuned the cost of souls is doubled while the cost of blood is removed for each use.

12. Soul Tether
If the player dies, any items enchanted with soul tether will return to the inventory after the player respawns.

13. Magnetization
Causes Items to gravitate towards the player, much like experience does.
 
pokyug said:
How to get players into PvP:
- Eliminate majority of potions (Everything except Str2 and Speed2), This removes the learning curve for spam potting.

- Create classes specializing in different combat {Swords, Axes, Bows, Unarmed} with a custom skill tree. This supports individually preferred combat styles.

- Find a way to make traps more efficient and more interesting, because currently TnT is not a viable form of defence (Half a heart to garmor). Best way to do this is with better-developed magic and cannons.

- Implementing more enchants that make weapons more unique: (Hexxit Enchants provided for example)
1. Fiery Aura
Causes any mob that deals physical damage to you (like a zombie) to be set on fire.

2. Exude
Causes the withering effect to cause damage to the player at a slower rate.

3. Vitality
4 Ranks: 5%/10%/15%/20% chance to apply damage to hunger bar instead of life.

4. Soulsteal
Not to be confused with Soul Stealer. With Soulsteal , when a mob dies it releases its soul to be used with the Essence Vessel from Harken Scythe mod. 3 Ranks: 33% / 66% / 100% chance upon death to release a soul

5. Focus
Can be applied to swords. Makes augment abilities charge faster.

  • Rank 1: 1.5x faster
  • Rank 2: 2x faster
6. Afterlife
3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance the target will drop a mob egg of its type when killed. This does not work on all mob types in the game, even though some new entities show spawn eggs in the not enough items menu.

7. Decapitate
Applicable to axes through the enchantment table, and all other weapons via an enchanted book and anvil. This enchantment is also available for boomerangs through an enchantment table.

  • 3 Ranks: 33% /66% /100% chance on killing of a mob for it to drop its head.
8. Blight
Applicable only to bows. Withers the target for several seconds depend on rank.

  • 3 Ranks: 5/10/15 second wither debuff on target.
9. Sanguinary
When a shield deals damage to a target via thorns enchantment, it will heal the holder. Depends on rank.

  • 3 Ranks: / / health healed. Cannot be directly enchanted to shields, can only be enchanted through an enchanted book and an anvil.
10. Ward
When blocking with an shield, the player has a chance to gain an extra shield durability.

  • 3 Ranks: 10% /20% / 30% chance on a successful block to regain an extra shield durability
11. Soul Attuned
When an Amulet or Talisman from Harken Scythe is soul attuned the cost of souls is doubled while the cost of blood is removed for each use.

12. Soul Tether
If the player dies, any items enchanted with soul tether will return to the inventory after the player respawns.

13. Magnetization
Causes Items to gravitate towards the player, much like experience does.
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All of those things but second point would cause the current base of pvpers to pretty much immediately leave the server.
 
jes_ said:
All of those things but second point would cause the current base of pvpers to pretty much immediately leave the server.
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Since they are so attached to the present pvp, which is battle of the fingers... Making it very strategic and mmo would ruin what they love, but I would personally love to see, it applies some relevance and fun into mvp and pvp
 
I don't PvP because of the major skill gap. There no in between zone, your either really good or really suck. I might start PvPing if Massive used more 1.9+ combat mechanics, but I don't see that happening any time soon as the MassiveMobs would end up slaughtering anybody who isn't an expert at MC Combat, particularly 1.9+ combat.
 
DockedRelic said:
Since they are so attached to the present pvp, which is battle of the fingers... Making it very strategic and mmo would ruin what they love, but I would personally love to see, it applies some relevance and fun into mvp and pvp
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Yes, this is exactly why I prefer 1.9 combat. While I wouldn't call -1.8 combat complete spamming, it does lack room to learn.
 

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