Weapons And You: What Do You Wield?

What Weapon Do You Use?

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Plecy said:
Probably because polearms and spears, like the vast majority of large, two-handed weapons, really aren't convenient to carry :v.

I'm also holding back the urge to rant about characters that duel wield swords. This thread isn't good for me.
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๖ۣۜTo a point, 'duel' wielded weapons were actually somewhat normal to people such as fencers, but only so for people who dueled 1 on 1 often. Now, that doesn't mean a person can have two katanas or two claymores, duel wielding at such a time as on massive is basically like having a rapier and a dagger no bigger than 8 inches. Sometimes it wasn't even a dagger, it would be a chain-mail glove, or as many avoid, a shield that isn't very big, either. Characters wielding two daggers, that would be quite difficult to do whether they are small or not (You'd also be called a moron for fighting with such small and useless weapons, and duel wielding anything bigger than a dagger would be very slow to use, even if it is 'lightweight'. Plus, people refuse to really accept the fact that the secondary weapon wasn't intended to even be used as a weapon like in your primary hand, it was used to actually just block. Chain-mail gloves could catch and push away a dagger or blade, the dagger could act as a small block to a sword and a nasty poker if their hand got too close, and the shield was intended for things more like arrows and bludgeons than swords like claymores and katanas. So yes; this thread is talking of weapons, such as what weapons you would choose, I don't think it is too bad to move a bit onto the science of it.
 
HumanLikeCreeper said:
Guys, guys, guys a sword of this age with the current metal working would be brittle and useless vikings have made swords that compare to modern day steel but that doesnt mean they can get through platemale they could get through wood shields, not platemail. As for platemale on that matter you just cant walk around with that stuff on its three hundred to four hundred pounds all over your body thats why you see knights riding warhorses not waddling around in they're hot, limited movement armor. PLUS it takes several people who know how to put on that armor to help you put it on that shits complicated.

As for @Mycin_Alchemist I agree with him on his maces post we are fragile creatures hell we can fall on our face and kill yourselves getting even a small hammer to the head would break BONE. it wouldnt daze you, it wouldnt bruise (unless a child somehow hit you there.) No, it will crack the side of your skull or break it open completely hell in some cases i've seen weapons used on zombie heads where one swing took away a quarter of the head without hesitation.

As for magic, magic can pretty much go through any armors if your using fire or something.
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Okay, our tech level would allow for decent steel from a good blacksmith. Blacksmiths have been making steel for longer than they knew it was steel. You can get through plate by choosing your target. Plate armor did not cover everything, as it had openings in its joints. So a skilled swordsmen that actually understands their weapon could create openings to then stab their opponent and kill them. Furthermore, those wearing plate on the ground would be more like 150-200 pounds spread out over the entire body (this is due to them wearing more partial plate and chain mail). So while you cannot run with it (though some who trained were recorded to do so), you can move fast enough to not only respond to enemies, but act on openings. One of the great misconceptions about these eras (thanks to Victorian age thinking) is that plate armor meant slow tank. Many forms of plate armor actually allowed fairly fast combat, and if people understood their armor (which many did, since that was their job and life) they knew exactly the limits in their maneuverability, and in corporate that into their fighting style. They are hot, and some movement is limited. However, anyone using such armor would be trained in how to properly use it, which means knowing your limits in movement, knowing when to burst energy to strike and when to conserve and block, knowing what is protected and what isn't, and knowing what weapons and fighting styles work for your armor.
This means that knights that had the time to own and train with full plate armor, they were mobile armored fights that were professionals at what they did. They knew what to avoid and how. These people were more often than naught more valuable to capture than to kill. Many of the more common styles of maces actually were designed to force armored opponents to take armor off so they could be killed/captured.

Still, if you equip an army with maces only you will loose. First to archers, then to pole arms, and finally to the swift and nimble slashes hacks and stabs of swords (which lasted much longer than many other weapons because polearms, axes, and maces used wooden handles which broke more often). So, for that reason I will stick with my Sword thank you very much.
 
My previous character, Rosi Greyy, used a simple cutting knife as a weapon.
A past vampire character of mine didn't even use weapons, he just used his nails and fangs to scratch people up
My more recent character, Abigail tucker uses either a bludgeoning weapon (such Asa hammer or a mace) or she just uses anything light enough for her to pick up and hit people with.
 
TheNatcanino said:
/Metal/ Armor, you realise, there could be Leather.. or Cloth armor, although not Effective, even a Tailor or such could (Maybe) make one or the other.
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Cloth is what most clothes are made out of in this time period. Unlike flesh, weapons tear it with ease. Leather was mainly used to patch lighter, smaller pieces of armour together (bigger pieces require chsin mail). Leather may stop a few strikes, but unless it is reinforced with some sort of metal, it would break after a few hits - despite what most fantasy RPG games tell us.

Essentially, cloth and leather on their own are mostly useless. Unless someone cares to prove me wrong. And if you can, please do so.
 
tcarey said:
Cloth is what most clothes are made out of in this time period. Unlike flesh, weapons tear it with ease. Leather was mainly used to patch lighter, smaller pieces of armour together (bigger pieces require chsin mail). Leather may stop a few strikes, but unless it is reinforced with some sort of metal, it would break after a few hits - despite what most fantasy RPG games tell us.

Essentially, cloth and leather on their own are mostly useless. Unless someone cares to prove me wrong. And if you can, please do so.
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I understand what you are saying, but it could help in certain situations, Leather, if Thick enough could soften a blow, rather.
 
Mycin_Alchemist said:
The point I was making in this thread, is that everyone seems to use swords, and there are many more, practical, and unique weapons out there; That in all fairness can be much more effective.
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This is really only partially true. A simple hand and a half sword can do a hell of a lot of things that other weapons just can't. You can use it to parry which you can't really do as effectively using an axe. Sure, you could stop a swing with an axe, but with a sword you can do so much more. You can catch the blade and then use it as leverage against your opponent, you can parry and counter IN A SINGLE MOTION and you can both thrust and slash someone. They're also not made out of paper like a lot of people think. Thin though it may be, that sharp bar of metal is pretty hefty and will hurt when it hits you, blade or no blade. Generally the only times a skilled swordsman can't outmatch an opponent is when they are wearing mail since you'd need a really straight strike to pierce through good armor. They're also a bit more handy to carry around.

That said, I am not a huge fan of swords myself. Personally I prefer spears but spears have a lot of issues themselves. Axes tend to be pretty strong and versatile in that they can double as a tool, but you can't really use them in for defense like you can a sword or a spear... maces are much the same. Honestly the only real thing a mace has over say an axe is that it's pretty reliable. It's essentially just a club. Pretty hard to break or use a club wrong.

A lot of people don't even really use swords on the sever the right way anyway. Swords are more about finesse and eliminating unnecessary movements than hitting something really hard. Most people in the server however act like they're swinging an axe at someone.

All of this aside though, I honestly can't blame people. A lot of how you use weapons tends to be speculation based on just design of the weapons, since we don't really have any knights or ancient warriors to tell us how to use them. When things get speculative, things get scientific and a lot of people, mostly younger people, think science is boring (Which is stupid, and they are stupid for thinking that.) so actually learning things like how it's important to make very precise slashes with a sword instead of strong slashes, since if you don't get the blade in line with the direction you're cutting, you'll just slap your target with a bar of metal.

My oh my, this sure is a long post. So basically what I was getting to is that while swords won't hit as hard as an axe, they do a lot of really neat things that other weapons can't.
 
Also sidenote addition to my post - Swords require a lot of practice and training. It isn't hard to teach someone to use a spear, "Stick them with a pointy end, don't let them get past the pointy end." and that's about all it takes.
 
HumanLikeCreeper said:
...As for platemale on that matter you just cant walk around with that stuff on its three hundred to four hundred pounds all over your body thats why you see knights riding warhorses not waddling around in they're hot, limited movement armor. PLUS it takes several people who know how to put on that armor to help you put it on that shits complicated.
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Qnndrps.gif

An excuse to use this gif. This is historically accurate plate armor. Clearly you can see it does not limit much at all.
 
HumanLikeCreeper said:
Dem snips do
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Ummmmm... I don't know what your thinking about but in Massivecraft there is high carbon content steel which is quite strong. Platemail while effective against a slash, would be vulnerable to a well placed stab. True your not going to be wearing around platemail normally but it does not weigh 400 lbs. It doesn't really take several people, just one that knows what he's doing.

As for Mace damage yes It can hurt you that much if you are strong enough... Lets be honest most people aren't going to be able to swing a 20 pound mace super fast without taking so big a windup as to leave yourself completely exposed.
 
Seransic would use an Axe, like the tool you would see someone use for woodworking.

He thought they were effective, efficient, and better then some ideas some rickety old farmer attempted to invent. Granted, he's never killed at this point with it, but he's gotten thieves to back up. And maybe a few civilians.
 
TheFinitePeach said:
Ummmmm... I don't know what your thinking about but in Massivecraft there is high carbon content steel which is quite strong. Platemail while effective against a slash, would be vulnerable to a well placed stab. True your not going to be wearing around platemail normally but it does not weigh 400 lbs. It doesn't really take several people, just one that knows what he's doing.

As for Mace damage yes It can hurt you that much if you are strong enough... Lets be honest most people aren't going to be able to swing a 20 pound mace super fast without taking so big a windup as to leave yourself completely exposed.
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CONTAINS GORE. (fake gore, but still.)

Start at 2 minutes, that thing weighs maybe ten pounds. and to be honest anyone could flail faster than that, he just wanted to aim it up for a good hit.
 
HumanLikeCreeper said:
CONTAINS GORE. (fake gore, but still.)

Start at 2 minutes, that thing weighs maybe ten pounds. and to be honest anyone could flail faster than that, he just wanted to aim it up for a good hit.
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Ok... congratulations a 2 foot Iron pipe can kill a person if their not doing anything, and you swing it over your head...
In that time you are swinging it over your head how hard would it be to slip a knife between your ribs?
In that time you are swinging it over your head how hard would it be to take 2 steps backwards?
I didn't say you couldn't use a Mace I just said that if your going to try and use one like that expect to die...

((ntm that if you are using any sword larger then a rapier your head will be out of reach...))
 
TheFinitePeach said:
Ok... congratulations a 2 foot Iron pipe can kill a person if their not doing anything, and you swing it over your head...
In that time you are swinging it over your head how hard would it be to slip a knife between your ribs?
In that time you are swinging it over your head how hard would it be to take 2 steps backwards?
I didn't say you couldn't use a Mace I just said that if your going to try and use one like that expect to die...

((ntm that if you are using any sword larger then a rapier your head will be out of reach...))
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Now your just being argumentative.
 
TheNatcanino said:
/Metal/ Armor, you realise, there could be Leather.. or Cloth armor, although not Effective, even a Tailor or such could (Maybe) make one or the other.
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Leather can be very effective if used properly. However, many who would use armor like that were most likely not professionals in the later ages (13th later) wound up using that kind of armor incorrectly. However, many did use studded leather to great advantage.
Xskill said:
This is really only partially true. A simple hand and a half sword can do a hell of a lot of things that other weapons just can't. You can use it to parry which you can't really do as effectively using an axe. Sure, you could stop a swing with an axe, but with a sword you can do so much more. You can catch the blade and then use it as leverage against your opponent, you can parry and counter IN A SINGLE MOTION and you can both thrust and slash someone. They're also not made out of paper like a lot of people think. Thin though it may be, that sharp bar of metal is pretty hefty and will hurt when it hits you, blade or no blade. Generally the only times a skilled swordsman can't outmatch an opponent is when they are wearing mail since you'd need a really straight strike to pierce through good armor. They're also a bit more handy to carry around.

That said, I am not a huge fan of swords myself. Personally I prefer spears but spears have a lot of issues themselves. Axes tend to be pretty strong and versatile in that they can double as a tool, but you can't really use them in for defense like you can a sword or a spear... maces are much the same. Honestly the only real thing a mace has over say an axe is that it's pretty reliable. It's essentially just a club. Pretty hard to break or use a club wrong.

A lot of people don't even really use swords on the sever the right way anyway. Swords are more about finesse and eliminating unnecessary movements than hitting something really hard. Most people in the server however act like they're swinging an axe at someone.

All of this aside though, I honestly can't blame people. A lot of how you use weapons tends to be speculation based on just design of the weapons, since we don't really have any knights or ancient warriors to tell us how to use them. When things get speculative, things get scientific and a lot of people, mostly younger people, think science is boring (Which is stupid, and they are stupid for thinking that.) so actually learning things like how it's important to make very precise slashes with a sword instead of strong slashes, since if you don't get the blade in line with the direction you're cutting, you'll just slap your target with a bar of metal.

My oh my, this sure is a long post. So basically what I was getting to is that while swords won't hit as hard as an axe, they do a lot of really neat things that other weapons can't.
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Loved the post, just wanted to help with some fun fast facts.
You are right on mail trumping swords. Plate can be worked around, mail not so much. Spears, Axes, and Maces generally used wooden handles, which would eventually break. While clubs are easy to use, wood kinda sucks compared metal. You can thank victorian Era thinking for a lack of medieval tactics surviving to the modern era. However, we are able to infer a lot from poems, art, and the weapons themselves. For example, thanks to poems from Normandy we know that Vikings did employ fortifications and archery lines behind their shield walls. We also know that while they used axes, they used spears more often in larger scale conflict despite popular belief. We also know that they did have 'knights' (viking nobles who owned horses) but chose to fight dismounted due to practicality and as a morale boost for their men.

Its okay for the long post, lots of useful info.
 
HumanLikeCreeper said:
No, your making ridicules points that having nothing to do with real combat realistically.
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First the points aren't ridiculous
Second I'm pointing out how what your saying isn't even remotely realistic

Or would you consider stabbing someone to be unrealistic or ridiculous?
 
TheFinitePeach said:
First the points aren't ridiculous
Second I'm pointing out how what your saying isn't even remotely realistic

Or would you consider stabbing someone to be unrealistic or ridiculous?
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How is hitting someone in the head with a mace unrealistic? I find it ridicules that your actually arguing about this the situation in every battle is usually very unique so just... please.. shutup.
 
@Thalan79

Yes, but you always have to take those sorts of things with a grain of salt, especially when dealing with Vikings, since a lot of that is exaggerated for entertainment purposes, but good points indeed.
 
Xskill said:
@Thalan79

Yes, but you always have to take those sorts of things with a grain of salt, especially when dealing with Vikings, since a lot of that is exaggerated for entertainment purposes, but good points indeed.
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Actually, no. The exaggerated idea of Vikings is that they only used axes. In reality they used tactics just like anyone else. However, they upheld the Northern idea of dismounted cavalry fighting over cavalry and used archery and defensive positions just like any other force. They also used spears and other pole arms because pole arms are nice.
 
Thalan79 said:
Actually, no. The exaggerated idea of Vikings is that they only used axes. In reality they used tactics just like anyone else. However, they upheld the Northern idea of dismounted cavalry fighting over cavalry and used archery and defensive positions just like any other force. They also used spears and other pole arms because pole arms are nice.
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Well of course they used tactics and stuff. They wouldn't have been so successful at pillaging if they didn't. I'm just saying that usually the effectiveness or success tend to be a bit exaggerated. It's the difference between a man who can split a skull with an axe to a man who can split a man with an axe to be metaphorical.
 
Xskill said:
Well of course they used tactics and stuff. They wouldn't have been so successful at pillaging if they didn't. I'm just saying that usually the effectiveness or success tend to be a bit exaggerated. It's the difference between a man who can split a skull with an axe to a man who can split a man with an axe to be metaphorical.
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Right, though I never said that they were infinitely effective, only that they did use more than just bum rush tactics.

I believe what happened is that I assumed that you were discounting my statement, when in fact you were only aiding in its credibility. Sorry, kinda tired.
 
Thalan79 said:
Right, though I never said that they were infinitely effective, only that they did use more than just bum rush tactics.

I believe what happened is that I assumed that you were discounting my statement, when in fact you were only aiding in its credibility. Sorry, kinda tired.
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T'is but the natural jaded state all people tend to have on the internet, I don't blame you for it.
 
I got my sword from my dad. Long story. He also taught me to use a bow. I use both. I am a king after all so I use a sword.
Mycin_Alchemist said:
That is a good point, the other thing to think about, is not every single Orc, or Drowdar is a soldier, there have to be people making food for the soldiers, people to make their weapons, people to get materials for the tools and weapons. No one person can do all of that, people usually have one thing they are specifically good at; Be it making weapons, chopping trees, farming, or fighting.
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Welp first, the actual point of the thread... my main character wields two scimitars, these being a sort of curved sword. They're about 2 1/2 half feet long (the blade that is) and curved only at the ends in a minor fashion, making it's design somewhere between what we think of as a middle eastern scimitar and an arming sword. He'll occasionally use a dagger as opposed to another scimitar, usually to throw before drawing his other blade as fast as he is able.

And a quick thing on people whom duel wield, and this is something I myself have to remind myself about; using two weapons at once is hard as shit. It takes literally years of training just to be somewhat decent, and even longer for it to be with that ideal ease we see in video games. A good deal of it is mental, keeping up with two weapons, most often performing two different actions at once. Don't just say your character has had 10 years of experience in his past, and start combat roleplaying as a master; make it clear no matter how long he/she has trained, it's not easy to duel wield, and it certainly has it's weaknesses. That last bit goes for all weapon styles, really.

/endrant
 
Mycin_Alchemist said:
To be fair, that is a good point, slaves are an effective way of getting work done. This thread will obviously have points where there are peoples who only fight, like the Barjuk tribe. I'm taking the guess that the slaves are specialized in some way to what job they do, if they had an uprising, what kind of weapons would those slaves have? This is the point of this thread.
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Human farming tools that we pillaged.
 
One thing that I find quite odd is the vast amount of people that venture out into the streets with daggers up the arse, bow over their shoulder, and a claymore on their back. I don't know about you, but if I am going to the tavern, my aim is not to scare every woman in there. It just seems kind of ridiculous to me how everyone constantly has a weapon on their person. Sorry if someone else mentioned a topic similar to this above, I just didn't bother to read every single post.
 
Daggers but I like to get creative for my weapons so none of the above. My characters have never been fighters so their weapons would either be used on someone restrained or for self defense. Any legitimate weapons were concealed as well.
For instance:

Old characters' weapons:
  • Ice Rose Staff- used primarily for walking but also for beating on anyone that attacked
  • A whip-only used on those restrained
  • A dagger-used for self defense
Current characters' weapons:

  • Razor-edged flute-used for surprise/stealth attack or defense
  • Random objects with reach: Morty once beat a vampire in the face with a rose Bush in order to escape certain death
  • Poison: stealth attack via food, drink, or absorption into skin
  • Hand held fan and fists: Character doesn't know how to fight so would beat on someone using the one item she always has on her
  • bow: long range attack
 
jla129 said:
One thing that I find quite odd is the vast amount of people that venture out into the streets with daggers up the arse, bow over their shoulder, and a claymore on their back. I don't know about you, but if I am going to the tavern, my aim is not to scare every woman in there. It just seems kind of ridiculous to me how everyone constantly has a weapon on their person. Sorry if someone else mentioned a topic similar to this above, I just didn't bother to read every single post.
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My Q'uerbo doesnt have any sort of weapons, but saying that he's nearly harmless.
 
Meh. Wolfryk uses Two War-Axes and a battle axe. Oh and a whole military of dwarves.
 
Jared4242 said:
Welp first, the actual point of the thread... my main character wields two scimitars, these being a sort of curved sword. They're about 2 1/2 half feet long (the blade that is) and curved only at the ends in a minor fashion, making it's design somewhere between what we think of as a middle eastern scimitar and an arming sword. He'll occasionally use a dagger as opposed to another scimitar, usually to throw before drawing his other blade as fast as he is able.

And a quick thing on people whom duel wield, and this is something I myself have to remind myself about; using two weapons at once is hard as shit. It takes literally years of training just to be somewhat decent, and even longer for it to be with that ideal ease we see in video games. A good deal of it is mental, keeping up with two weapons, most often performing two different actions at once. Don't just say your character has had 10 years of experience in his past, and start combat roleplaying as a master; make it clear no matter how long he/she has trained, it's not easy to duel wield, and it certainly has it's weaknesses. That last bit goes for all weapon styles, really.

/endrant
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Amen to that. I agree mostly, though there are some forms of 'duel wielding' which are kinda easy. As has been state before, most duel wielding is really just using one blade to strike, and one to deflect/block/catch. In this style, its really easy (I should say relatively easy) because you are really focusing on one blade at a time, either striking or blocking, and switching to the other when needed. Fighters of this style can switching almost instantly, as they also have variable fighting patterns learned so they can make it even easier for them by using muscle memory to shift focus. In most instances, fighters who are shifting focus rather than trying to focus on both generally do better (in my SCA experience), so in addition to being easier to pull off it seems to be more effective. That's just my two cents on the matter, so feel free to disagree.
 
Mycin said:

SWORDS DO NOT CUT THROUGH PEOPLE LIKE HOT BUTTER!

Most guards, or knights would opt for a mace or hammer, or some other bludgeoning weapons, over a sword. When a sword would be used, it would be used for stabbing primarily, and in that case, a spear, or halberd could be used instead.
​
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You can't say a sword would be used for stabbing primarily. It depends on the blade. Are you going to use a scimitar to primarily thrust with? Or a katana to thrust with? Or broodsword, or falchion... The list goes on. And even then, the classification of sword still doesn't cover everything. Longswords, for example. Some are tapered to the point of 70% thrusting, some blades are the exact opposite (but they're still tapered in some way, to keep the balance near the hilt, and not be clumsy unlike a lot of asian blades*).

If the opponent isn't wearing armour, a sword (that can cut, so not rapiers but arming swords for example), and the user knows how to weild his blade (cuts, rotation, edge allignment) the sword will go through flesh like butter, which is enough to kill someone (like rolling 15/20 for example, that's a good hit, but the opponent still has a chance to survive because we have magic to be able to heal injuries only modern medicine can today. If you get your guts spilled though, it's probably a 99% chance for death). As for bone, you don't have to go through bone and cut your opponent in half or decapitate them to win a swordfight. (Beasty cutters are overrated, you can do so many things with the design by not spending it all on cutting.)

Thrusting would be used more commonly against armour though, or for the non-eastern types of swords, you could always flip the sword, grab it by the blade (can also be done bare handed and with a sharp edge, so long as it doesn't slide) and basically use the crossguard/pommel as a hammer, as most of the weight would be on the hilt, meaning you could blunt-attack armour, breaking bones underneath. (Especially swords such as longswords hit like a lorry. But it does make them clumsier and top-heavy, like axes or hammers, so you lose the incredible swiftness of the longsword.)

Or you can keep you hand on the hilt, and grab the blade, using only a few cantimetres towards the tip (like 30 cantimetres, making it an improvised dagger), to increase point accuracy and therefore increase you chances of slipping through the creaks of your opponent's armour from impossible, to almost impossible.

Also people, you are invulnurable to cuts to your plate, all the way down to mail. Cuts are a joke against mail (but you're still going to feel the impact, so if you mess with a montate or an axe in mail, it'll break your bones. Cuts are a joke, but the impact force isn't). And you can theoretically disloccte and go through the links of mail with a thrust, but actually being able to land a hit that would mean something is near impossible, coupled with the padding underneath, most clean thrusts do as much damage as cutting your finger while making a salad.

And also IF I SEE YOU SPINNING DURING CRP, I'M GOING TO LUNGE AT YOUR BACK. DON'T SPIN IN A SWORDFIGHT, IT'S NOT THE SAME AS MMA, WE'RE METRES AWAY FROM EACH OTHER AND I CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING A MILLENIA EARLIER THAN YOUR STRIKE.
There are exceptions of course, but generally avoid it.

*The katana isn't clumsy, because it's not as long. Nodachis for example, are clumsier than zweihanders, because their blades are so much thicker and don't have tapering either.
 
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