Upcoming Race Reworks + Removal Part 2

I wish Lampar were getting a rewrite as was said in the past. I appreciate updates on information and races but the removal of any race without even an IC reason why seems a little rude. Especially to the people who, although few, played Lampar for years. All the difference they made is wiped clean and they're left without a character. If they're given a reason I'd say it would be a little more fair but I suppose that might seem like a waste of resources to Staff as they were of course underplayed. Although Dakkar got one as well.. All the same, thank you for reading this and I hope whatever happens we can all just be super chill about the new changes.
 
HoshiChomp12 said:
I wish Lampar were getting a rewrite as was said in the past. I appreciate updates on information and races but the removal of any race without even an IC reason why seems a little rude. Especially to the people who, although few, played Lampar for years. All the difference they made is wiped clean and they're left without a character. If they're given a reason I'd say it would be a little more fair but I suppose that might seem like a waste of resources to Staff as they were of course underplayed. Although Dakkar got one as well.. All the same, thank you for reading this and I hope whatever happens we can all just be super chill about the new changes.
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That gives me a great idea! Let's make Lampar the new defensive tank race. We should raise their height to more 3-4 feet, make them a lot broader, and cover them in thick plate similar to an armidillo!
 
ezalB said:
We already have Zu-Allar which no one plays. Aaaaaaa.
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It's probably because Dakkars were hard to skin in the first place, and we had visuals for them.

But we have no visual art for the Zu-Allar, so it might be harder to envision them and skin for those who like to be specific about racial appearances.

The stoic and silent personality might be off-putting for some. I personally feel like anti-social characters are harder to play because of the lacking interactions.
 
MonMarty said:
Maiar
The problems caused by the Maiar are particularly close to me. I personally love the Maiar and think they are one of the greatest races in our lore because of Evolutionary Physiology, a design that in my head strikes as a very simple concept, but that on paper actually just gets abused and misused to create crp-god characters. Evolutionary Physiology was always meant to be quid pro quo, meaning it was supposed to have drawbacks with benefits and vice versa, but most players seem to not understand the nuances of "is predator, fights a lot, therefor big muscles" which should be compensated with "body makes big muscles, but becomes more stupid as nutrients go to movement instead". The intellectual flux is often completely missing, and there seems to be no real realistic way to really make that clear without producing a really complex system of resource management. As such, it pains me to say, but we may eventually decide to have Maiar go down the same route as Thylans: To imply they still exist in lore and survive in the seas, but to make them unplayable. Alternatively, we may end up revising the entire race to make them more human-like as a mermen race, but this is still up in the air. We haven't really made a solid decision on it yet. ​
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Removing Maiars would be a mistake, especially with the upcoming minecraft update. If you want my opinion, it's always been the most intriguing and mysterious among all races; I think the only reason why people won't play maiars anymore must be either for the design or for lack of roleplay scenarios that maiars can fit in.

I'm suggesting to overhaul their design in its whole. Create two or three subraces (ex. shark like maiars, mermaid like maiars, ecc.) and then build a system within Regalia that easily allows maiars to interact with other roleplayers, maybe creating a small districts for them in the docks. The possibilities are endless, don't surrender.

Oh, and about design, I'm sure this will sound childish and all, but It would be amazing to have them look like the classic mermaids: there's a reason they're so much popular even after thousands of years from their debut. A good example to follow can be found from the mermaids from Pirates of Carribean; in the movie, they're able to shapeshift above the water to look exactly like humans. I'm not saying that it should be exactly the same here, but it wouldn't be bad to let go of realism and play a bit with some mysterious magic.

Hope I wasn't too messy <3
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Cyliah said:
Removing Maiars would be a mistake, especially with the upcoming minecraft update. If you want my opinion, it's always been the most intriguing and mysterious among all races; I think the only reason why people won't play maiars anymore must be either for the design or for lack of roleplay scenarios that maiars can fit in.
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I agree completely and wholeheartedly; it's kind of hard to find a situation that Maiar can roleplay in smoothly.
 
I guess one thought I had was maybe create two different subspecies (or cultures) of Maiar, a "freshwater" and "saltwater" variant.

One group (dubbed freshwater) could have a similar standing in Regalia to the Cro-Allar, in that they are a viable military ally. So the Army would have the Allar, and the Navy has the Maiar. This subspecies would be somewhat dolphin-like in appearance, with a preference to higher level learning, such as tactics and diplomacy.

The other group (the saltwater) would be a "bit more savage" in that they are less trusting of non Hadar races or those that assimilated to Regalia. They would be more of the pirates and criminal contacts, being a bit more shark-like. While possessing the same intellectual capacity as the "freshwater" Maiar, they would go along the "might makes right" philosophy and value more direct confrontation that the finer details of diplomacy.

In short, the evolutionary changes would still be viable, but there would be two different cultures to be apart of, which generally fit into a certain type of physiological appearance.


I guess the best parallel I can draw is between the two types of Zora in the Legend of Zelda. Some difference like that.
 
FireFan96 said:
two different subspecies
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A simple yes is all I want to reply to this with-- as long as nothing is locked behind trustee, and these Maiar still have the ability to survive a less survival-oriented environment, which the freshwater sounds as if they may be able to. I assume the freshwater may also be more tailored towards land, as living in a lake may require some movement about in order to sustain themselves. Anyways, I like that idea Firefan. Aslong as the sharkies got an emphasized downside too.

I suppose as long as the analytical Maiar are more adapted to land, it may work, seeing as there have been so many people here who want humanoidish Maiar. To be honest, that's fine with me, as long as they don't turn into full fledged mermaid people-- already got the Kelp for that. Maybe instead of fresh/salt water, it could be shallow water and deep water Maiar?
 
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ezalB said:
Maybe instead of fresh/salt water, it could be shallow water and deep water Maiar?
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I just used fresh and salt to try and give a difference between cultures (fresh water things to me are a bit tamer than salt water)
Though I like shallow and deep a lot better, purely because Maiar came from the deep.
 
FireFan96 said:
I just used fresh and salt to try and give a difference between cultures (fresh water things to me are a bit tamer than salt water)
Though I like shallow and deep a lot better, purely because Maiar came from the deep.
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I always liked the idea of really freaky looking Maiar from the depths of the sea, thats where the weirdest looking stuff is IRL, so it makes sense. There is a lot of room for some really weird and cool mysterious deep-sea maiar culture and society and stuff, might even be a good channel for some Lovecraftian deities since the Maiar worship giant sea beasts.
 
Cyliah said:
shark like maiars,
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So the amphibious orcs called maiar currently, 99% of all maiar ever played, I honestly don't remember the last time I saw a maiar that wasn't just a more aggressive orc with gills and fish scales, and these maiar don't have any sort of honor code like most orc characters do, so frequent rampaging and excuses to powergame within the confines of lore.
 
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Conflee said:
I always liked the idea of really freaky looking Maiar from the depths of the sea, thats where the weirdest looking stuff is IRL, so it makes sense. There is a lot of room for some really weird and cool mysterious deep-sea maiar culture and society and stuff, might even be a good channel for some Lovecraftian deities since the Maiar worship giant sea beasts.
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Love it, and lore-wise they'd be amazing, but frankly I doubt many people would choose to play a horrifying maiar. It's not that nobody would , but many people just like to play characters that are even slightly attractive, and de-humanizing them totally kinda kills it already. I think there should be a poll to understand whether people want them to be more beastlike or humanoid <3 ~
 
If I can throw in an opinion, Maiar should have classes and subtypes, like several people have said above. But, instead of saltwater/freshwater or deep/shallow, it should be more of a Predator/Prey dynamic, where each type is evolving to outdo the other.

Predator Maiar can be your typical shark Maiar (sharp teeth, enhanced sense of smell, Muscular, dumb), or they can be dolphins (Ripped, intelligent, greater standing with the Navy), or even other predators to allow for unique body builds and focuses (Eel, Lionfish, etc).

Prey Maiar would be more inclined towards defensive evolutions or speed and generally have high intelligence as well. For example, a Koi Maiar (Higher intelligence, higher speed, athletic or skinny) or a Blowfish Maiar (Toxic, rapid expansion, Gaunt), or even a Blue Whale Maiar (Higher intelligence, Strongman, taller, very slow).

The point isn't to classify what a Maiar eats (I put Blue Whale in Prey, despite their diet), but to classify it's offensive or defensive traits.
Prey Maiar would be more pacifistic, taking up normal jobs such as alchemists, construction workers, and doctors, where Predator Maiar would be inclined to take up military or aggressive jobs, such as soldiers, gang members, pirates.

These are just basic templates. I'm not suggesting that the other abilities be taken away, just that the concept of templates be pronounced a little more, with a cultural relationship added. You can have a blind Dolphin Maiar that sees with face tentacles or a Whale Maiar that glows green.


There are other suggestions I would add.

  • A Maiar cannot go "Up" in any level, meaning that a Shark Maiar cannot become intelligent (or average) or Strongman, a Dolphin Maiar cannot become Muscular, and a Koi Maiar Ripped. Each type has an attraction, and they should not overlap that often. They can lose abilities, though (Gaunt Whale, Skinny Shark)
  • Predator Maiar should be about 6ft at highest and have their weight capped off at 300lb at most. Prey Maiar can reach 7ft if they wish, and have a weight of 400, like Orcs
  • Prey Maiar must have a dominating Flight instinct. If attacked, their main priority is escape, not victory.
  • Alternative builds should be allowed, but they can't override Predator/Prey limits. (No Strongman Megladon Maiar).
  • Maiar should be allowed more colors. Many more colors. I want to see a golden Koi Maiar. A white Dolphin Maiar. Not just a blue blob of evolution shaped like a Cro-Allar or an Orc.
  • Maiar should be allowed more abilities than feelers and glow balls. I like the idea above. Prey Maiar that can Shock their attackers. Predator Maiar that can weaken prey with poison. More legs, arms, eyes. Balancing is going to be needed, but Maiar should be a seething bowl of creativity instead of a printer creating an Orc with blue ink.
  • Maiar should not be allowed defensive plating. No Tortoise Maiar or Dunkleosteus Maiar. We don't need a repeat of the Dakkar just yet, and we already have a slightly defensive race (Zu-Allar). If people want more than that, perhaps it's time to revive Torrp, but we really don't need Maiar to become our tank race. Scales or blubber should be as far as it goes.
I'm playing with the idea of Alpha Maiar in my head. Maiar that break the limits and do whatever they please, but is locked behind Trustee. Not to sure of how that would go, but the concept was inspired by the Cro-Allar and how they lead the other Allar. I feel that Maiar should have some kind of designated leader.
 
To summarize an idea I have to maybe bring popularity/interest into playing a Maiar!:
  • Implement the Way of Tides religion back into the lore, or create a new marine-based religion.
  • This new religion would cross paths with a Maiar rewrite, which would expand on superstition and folklore, which have a high chance of being "rewarding" should you worship the new sea religion (To provide actual incentive to worship the faith).
    • I'd think maybe having a similar concept as to how the Mekkett found themselves transformed into bugs with the Maiar could be pretty neat. There's really a lot you could do with this.
Just two bullets to summarize how the Maiar could be rewritten alongside a new marine-oriented religion.
 
I wrote custom lore for a faction for a while, and I created a new crablike race of maiar, that lived at the bottom of the sea and worshiped sea serpents, they were tanky like the dakkar, I always liked that idea. I probably don't have a lot of standing in this argument, but I would hate to see the maiar go as well, I like the idea of adding more subspecies the way it was a long time ago (thank you internet archive sites). Like most of my chars are maiar and wud be all sad like if they left. [mon][Cay][mon][Cay]
 
cpt_manta_ray said:
(thank you internet archive sites).
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150115074507/http://wiki.massivecraft.com:80/Maiar
LeafMC said:
Yeah, fish people in the lore gives world staff a reason to build underwater things. This underwater update brings a lot of cool building options, and I'd hate to see Massive not take full advantage by removing their fish people before we get them.



As for dealing with the evolutionary physiology thing, isn't the proficiency system meant to remedy the kind of abuse you're talking about? Maybe give Maiar some sort of modular racial bonus, 10 extra points to distribute how they see fit (or maybe limited to particular proficiencies), which reflects their unique adaptation. Alternatively, just have a list of adaptations and let each Maiar pick some predetermined number. Keep them to mostly utility and cosmetic things, which would be a lot more interesting than just another burly race for winning strength contests.

It wouldn't have to be a 10 sentence paragraph for each thing, just short and sweet like a tabletop RPG option:

"Bioluminescence: You have some spots that glow with the light of a candle. You can turn them on or off with 30 seconds of concentration"

"Deep Vision: You can see clearly in anything short of total darkness"

"Muck-Swimmer: You can exist comfortable in dirty water such as sewage or that found in the slum canals. You don't risk getting sick when in such water"

"Bone-Crusher: You have a strong jaw and teeth, your bite is strong enough to break human arm bones"

"Electrolocation: When fully submerged you can electrically detect objects within 6 feet of you. You can discern living things from non-living things, and can learn to identify the unique electrical signature of a creature or type of creature."

"Electrogenesis: Once per hour, you can produce a powerful electric shock. A human-sized target is rendered immobile for 6 seconds. Larger targets are stunned for proportionally less time, smaller targets for proportionally more. If above water, you must be touching your target. If you and the target are both submerged in water, they must be within 6 feet of you"

"Lungfish: You can comfortably exist out of water for up to 24 hours instead of the usual 1"
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Regarding Ailor:
I'm on board with the Claith re-write, in my eyes, it feels like they need a bit of a fleshing out. It probably comes as no surprise to anyone that I'm a bit sad about the Lusitsian situation. That said, I'd think it'd be much better to incorporate it into Daendroquin culture rather than pretend it never existed at all. Could be involved somehow with the Avanthar overrunning the majority of Lusits in the current war?

Regarding Ch'i:
I think you're more or less aware of my thoughts regarding the Ch'i, I think they need racial diversity like the Ailor have rather than giving them extra sub-races. Again, that said, I do understand that if it's already been started there's probably a fair amount of work gone into it so I hope it goes well.

Regarding Dwarves:
Content expansion please, please.

Regarding Kathar:
I love them now, I think they work much better together as a larger society.

Regarding Lampar, Rashaq and Varran:
I'm sure this has probably been discussed, and this isn't a bash on people playing uwu Lampar (or is it) but I think mixing the cutesy niche with the Varran, a very militant and extreme culture is a bit strange. Rashaq have much more similarities to them and I quite like the idea from that perspective.

Regarding Maiar:
Similarly, I love Maiar. I've tried playing them on and off ever since I joined but always found them difficult to skin (finally got a half decent one though). I don't think they should change dramatically, and I do think they should stay. However, something obviously needs to be done to combat the powergaming that comes along with a power like the physiology trait. I would perhaps consider making a culture and subraces with different roles, similar to the Songaskia and Allar. In current lore, the eldest Maiar are boss and I think this should remain the same to avoid a niche cross over with the Cro-Allar but there could be for example three Maiar subraces. The examples of fish I'm going to use are all going to be sharks because I love sharks: Ocean sharklike athletic Maiar--maybe hunters, large basking sharklike Maiar--maybe scholars and Reef sharlike Maiar, smaller and more timid but with their own benefits... I'd love to give an example but I'm very hungover and can't think of one.

Regarding other player ideas on this thread:
I really like the sound of rat people and goblins, I don't have much to add but that really. I think they're cool.


In general, I feel like the races that are underplayed are underplayed because of a lack of infrastructure or information about their cultures and way of living. It's easy to play Ailor because they're so relatable, it's easy to play Elves because everyone knows Elves whether it's from LOTR, WoW or something else, but it's harder to play races that are newer concepts--not to say they're bad, a lot of them are excellent, I feel like people need something more to grasp before playing them and immersing themselves in their characters.

@MonMarty
 
prem_ said:
Similarly, I love Maiar. I've tried playing them on and off ever since I joined but always found them difficult to skin (finally got a half decent one though). I don't think they should change dramatically, and I do think they should stay. However, something obviously needs to be done to combat the powergaming that comes along with a power like the physiology trait. I would perhaps consider making a culture and subraces with different roles, similar to the Songaskia and Allar. In current lore, the eldest Maiar are boss and I think this should remain the same to avoid a niche cross over with the Cro-Allar but there could be for example three Maiar subraces. The examples of fish I'm going to use are all going to be sharks because I love sharks: Ocean sharklike athletic Maiar--maybe hunters, large basking sharklike Maiar--maybe scholars and Reef sharlike Maiar, smaller and more timid but with their own benefits... I'd love to give an example but I'm very hungover and can't think of one.
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I make pretty good Maiar skins, I'll make you one for free, pm me
 
prem_ said:
Regarding Ailor:
I'm on board with the Claith re-write, in my eyes, it feels like they need a bit of a fleshing out. It probably comes as no surprise to anyone that I'm a bit sad about the Lusitsian situation. That said, I'd think it'd be much better to incorporate it into Daendroquin culture rather than pretend it never existed at all. Could be involved somehow with the Avanthar overrunning the majority of Lusits in the current war?

Regarding Ch'i:
I think you're more or less aware of my thoughts regarding the Ch'i, I think they need racial diversity like the Ailor have rather than giving them extra sub-races. Again, that said, I do understand that if it's already been started there's probably a fair amount of work gone into it so I hope it goes well.

Regarding Dwarves:
Content expansion please, please.

Regarding Kathar:
I love them now, I think they work much better together as a larger society.

Regarding Lampar, Rashaq and Varran:
I'm sure this has probably been discussed, and this isn't a bash on people playing uwu Lampar (or is it) but I think mixing the cutesy niche with the Varran, a very militant and extreme culture is a bit strange. Rashaq have much more similarities to them and I quite like the idea from that perspective.

Regarding Maiar:
Similarly, I love Maiar. I've tried playing them on and off ever since I joined but always found them difficult to skin (finally got a half decent one though). I don't think they should change dramatically, and I do think they should stay. However, something obviously needs to be done to combat the powergaming that comes along with a power like the physiology trait. I would perhaps consider making a culture and subraces with different roles, similar to the Songaskia and Allar. In current lore, the eldest Maiar are boss and I think this should remain the same to avoid a niche cross over with the Cro-Allar but there could be for example three Maiar subraces. The examples of fish I'm going to use are all going to be sharks because I love sharks: Ocean sharklike athletic Maiar--maybe hunters, large basking sharklike Maiar--maybe scholars and Reef sharlike Maiar, smaller and more timid but with their own benefits... I'd love to give an example but I'm very hungover and can't think of one.

Regarding other player ideas on this thread:
I really like the sound of rat people and goblins, I don't have much to add but that really. I think they're cool.


In general, I feel like the races that are underplayed are underplayed because of a lack of infrastructure or information about their cultures and way of living. It's easy to play Ailor because they're so relatable, it's easy to play Elves because everyone knows Elves whether it's from LOTR, WoW or something else, but it's harder to play races that are newer concepts--not to say they're bad, a lot of them are excellent, I feel like people need something more to grasp before playing them and immersing themselves in their characters.

@MonMarty
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Dwarves, yes! We need way more of them.
 
Maraya have a really really unique history and society, and I personally have loved them throughout their variations. However! It does feel like there's something missing from the most recent update, and I have a few ideas. Sorry if it gets rambly.

Aesthetic and Cultural Addition
Maraya are really mysterious, regal and have access to a whole load of ancient tech (though none that they currently know how to use). It seems to me, therefor, that an easy way to make them both more interesting to design and more visually appealing (also adding cultural interest) would be to write in a sort of highly personalisable accessory or item that is linked directly into their lore. The first thing that comes to mind is a sort of gemstone and accompanying mantelpiece/necklace/tiara/bracelet/ring type thing that changes over time to aesthetically fit with the Maraya wearing it, similar to the butterflies in Leveia magic.
This could also be integrated easily into culture.

Ability Addition (Relic)
Maraya could be given access to use a basic, widespread relic that they will be able to keep on them at all times (could be a stone, or something else). This could function as a racial ability, playing off their ancient theme. Maybe the effect is relatively small but also dependent on personality? That'd be cool. E.g. for a loyal person, something that allows them to shield someone else. For a pacifist, something that lets them stop someone in their tracks (trip them, maybe?) etc etc. To discourage powergaming, this would obviously be a case of 'choose an ability based on personality', or if that is either too much work or too easy to minmax, a single ability could be preset by the staff which all the relics would have.

Trade Addition
Maraya don't really have a trade that they can use in Regalia. They have slavery, but that's hardly ever roleplayed and Maraya are more likely to be enslaved themselves due to their minimal rights and fairly average combat ability. Most other races have a trade or job they're particularly good at - farming, alchemy, guarding/combat, sailing, etc. Something that they could either barter using or actively do in roleplay. (E.g. selling farming goods for a farmer, despite farmers not roleplaying out farming). This would play nicely into the next idea:

Non-ability Speciality
Another way to go would be to give them something like the Mu-Allar blood smelling thing, where it's a quasi-ability that isn't necessarily very powerful or complex but gives them an edge. For example, their strength could be buffed or they could be given the ability to step on air (like the Vaulting Boots of Valtorr from Dr Strange, but perhaps more limited), or perhaps their elegance and beauty could be emphasised and turned into an advantage. As of right now, the only remarkable thing about them physically is that despite being of average strength, they are slim and remarkably flexible. Even just emphasising or upgrading this would be useful, as right now it is difficult to tell how much this affects them. If it has a drastic effect, then it should be emphasised more. If it has little effect, or is not that useful and instead aesthetic, then something else should be added as it seems in all other ways they are disadvantaged (diplomatically, age-wise, financially, etc).
 
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Jiangshi said:
Maraya culture and lore is cool, and they're an interesting race. But I can't play anything that is forcibly pastel or overtly colorful. Maybe that could be made more inclusive.
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if skinning is an issue, one might note that the massivecraft texture pack is quite gloomy, and there is a plethora of tints and adjustments that can make even a yanar look depressing.
 
Also, For Maiar, I dont know if anyone has said this but I think it would be cool if they could like mentally revert back to their instinctual ways for like a set amount of time, like a mix of Skagger Berserk and Wulong Rage. Although this would only work for the Maiar that were summoned by the Naylar and managed to live.
 
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Nidakk said:
Also, For Maiar, I dont know if anyone has said this but I think it would be cool if they could like mentally revert back to their instinctual ways for like a set amount of time, like a mix of Skagger Berserk and Wulong Rage. Although this would only work for the Maiar that were summoned by the Naylar and managed to live.
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I kinda like this idea, but I see it as more of a drug or something instead of an ability. So, say a certain pollen from a certain flower will do this for a Maiar if inhaled or eaten. This could work in the maiar's xenophobia around the city and cause them to be viewed more as savages which could bring some interesting roleplay
 

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