Archived Thoughts On A Better Economy

This suggestion has been archived / closed and can no longer be voted on.

BenRekt

Chopper Gunner
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
748
Reaction score
1,476
Points
0
Location
United States
Ever since the huge misuse of McMMO fishing roughly 2-3 years ago, the economy as recovered at a very slow rate, and still diamonds and other "valuables" such as god armor and weapons continue to decrease in value. I have several ideas that, in my theory, would increase the value of diamonds as well as other ores and valuables

1. Remove /fix completely, and remove or reduce the durability of armor (Last I checked, armor durability was tripled in response to high axe levels). This will create a need for diamonds that currently does not really exist at the moment, because instead of being able to instantly repair armor and weapons for free, it will require diamonds, thus slowly increasing the need, and price, for them.

2. Diamond armor / diamond tools should not drop at NPC events. I don't believe this requires much explaining on how this negatively effects the economy, but spawning in diamond armor and tools will only further decrease the value of diamonds which is insanely low as is.

3. Due to MassiveRestore, there is literally now an unlimited supply of diamonds and other valuable ores in worlds outfitted with this plug-in. I believe that if it is possible, to have mined ores be replaced by stone instead of replacing the ores. I know this would probably be very hard to code, and I would rather have the first two ideas be implemented than have time spent on this one.

4. Remove getting pure regals as a voting item. This will increase the value of regals slowly but surely.

Throughout my over 2 years of playing Massive, there really hasn't been an economy for things that should really be the most valued such as god gear or diamonds. In my opinion, implementing these ideas would provide said economy that I, as well as many others, desire for the server and would also open a whole new economic side of the server that hasn't received a lot of exposure.
 
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
The issue you are missing is that in the item trade, there is not enough Regals to meet demand. This is what keeps prices low, not too many regals. Your last idea Would actually deflate values even mOre
 
Ever since the huge misuse of McMMO fishing roughly 2-3 years ago, the economy as recovered at a very slow rate, and still diamonds and other "valuables" such as god armor and weapons continue to decrease in value. I have several ideas that, in my theory, would increase the value of diamonds as well as other ores and valuables
While this graph was made for de-industrialization, it works roughly the same way.
Clark%27s_Sector_Model.png


Primary sector:
  • Mining
  • Fishing
  • Digging
  • Lumberjacking
  • mob grinding
These are all basic activities that have been exhausted, reason being that anyone can do them and most of the resources are in excess due to the fact that most players tend to play upwards between 3 months to a year on the server.

Secondary sector:
  • Armor production
  • Weapon production
  • Stained clay production
  • Various rare stone production like Diorite
  • Quartz production
  • enchant sales
This sector is still very much alive and kicking, and making thousands of regals at any given time. When I start a building project, I build in stained clay, and I spend thousands of Regals just buying shops empty with them. My best bet people don't harvest these in large quantities because they are difficult to find and it's easier to mine for diamonds and then complain that you're not getting a good wage. It's the difference between being a trash collector and a banking clerk to me. Diamonds being the trash.

Tertiary Sector:
  • Rare item sale such as voting items
  • Faction protection services
  • Skin production
  • Art production
  • Base/building service
  • Writing production
  • Digging Darkrooms
  • Building Schematics for other people
  • Real estate in Regalia
The service economy is /the/ place to be right now for money making in Massive. Thousands of regals are popping off left and right. The auction has received fairly little PR since it's inception, but one art auction is going for 20,000 regals tomorrow. That is the largest single purchase that has ever been made on Massive at least to my knowledge. I am literally swimming in cash as any time I want any I just sketch a quick 20 minute thing and easily fetch 3,000 regals for it. I've been offered services for construction as well exceeding 10,000 regals and more.

The point is, Massive's economy isn't breaking down, rather it's a sign that the economy has developed to the point where it resembles an actual economy instead of some fake construct. The fact that you can't earn much money at all with diamonds is a good sign, it means the economy has progressed to the point where knowledge base becomes more important and skills of trade. But Marty! I don't have any skills! First of all, that's a lie, second of all, there is plenty of "brainless" work in the tertiary sector like faction protection and building for others. If I get hired to build a castle for a faction, I sell the blueprint, I don't build it for them because I totally don't have the time to do that. They usually hire others to build the blueprints into their factions, similarly how people offer darkroom diffing services.

Alternatively, skills can also be acquired. Pay a building expert to train you how to do minecraft building on a more professional level, or join a build team or something like that. You can pay others to pass down knowledge to you, which is proof of the following:

The growth of the Quartiary sector, the information sector.
i think that sums it up. Monmarty sayd that here not so long ago and i completly agree with him.
 
This picture pretty much sums up my feelings

_72055219_72055214.jpg

I personally feel there is no need for this reply. Ben went to a lot of trouble to make this post, with some very well constructed and correct ideas and you just go ahead and post this picture without leaving any constructive criticism of any kind. If you are going to leave a picture which is obviously aimed to arouse some laughs or mock the post, then at least have the common decency to explain your reasoning. This is a serious post about a serious issue... Some help, not playground comedy would help...
 
This picture pretty much sums up my feelings

_72055219_72055214.jpg
So this is what I get for trying to help the server?
Good to know.

I know I'm not part of the staff team and don't have any authority, but could I get even a shred of respect for having been a player for over 2 years as well as several posts that have actually had a lot of influence on the server?
 
The issue you are missing is that in the item trade, there is not enough Regals to meet demand. This is what keeps prices low, not too many regals. Your last idea Would actually deflate values even mOre
Are you saying the reason prices are so low because people couldn't afford higher prices?

Also - I want items to be more valued and be worth more regals, not for regals to be devalued and thus making items "worth" more regals.
 
Last edited:
You're trying to justify player disrespect. I don't really feel a need to respond to you.
As far as I can tell, at least.


ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW

I HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED BY STAFF AT POINTS

BUT THIS TIME STAFF MAD AN EXCELLENT POINT ON THE ECONOMY.

AND THAT SARCASTIC POST WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE MAKES A THREAD ABOUT THIS EVERY 9 DAYS ALRIGHT
 
ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW

I HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED BY STAFF AT POINTS

BUT THIS TIME STAFF MAD AN EXCELLENT POINT ON THE ECONOMY.

AND THAT SARCASTIC POST WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE MAKES A THREAD ABOUT THIS EVERY 9 DAYS ALRIGHT
Do you know why people make a post about this "every 9 days"? Because the economy is actually screwed up.
I also find it fairly ironic that the biggest criticizers of my ideas are people who only buy lore items and besides that aren't involved in the economy in really any other way. (Not talking about @OldManJ98 )
I can sell 2 enchanted eggs for more than a set of the best armor and weapons.
The fact that I'm trying to help out with some constructive ideas and just get a sarcastic post, which I assume is mocking me for being stupid, but won't respond respectfully, or at all, to why my ideas would not help the server's economy.
 
No, it is because there are not enough regals to drive up prices

See adding in more regals (Spawning them in via voting items, etc) does not help...

All it does is cause currency liquidation which means the value of 1 regal is reduced. We need to find a way to make it so the regal keeps the same value per unit while also changing the state of diamond trade. The thing we have to look at for that is Supply/Demand. There is HUGE supply of diamonds (Due to the huge opness fishing presented) and very little demand because of everyone having enough already. This plainly comes down to the fact that armour does not drop, and weapons don't if in passive when prem. On other servers, you have to make a new god set after almost every week as chances are you died and lost it. Because of this we need to find a way of just reducing the amount of diamonds everyone has. Since the problem is already here, it is very hard to bring it out. These diamonds and their products are already out in circulation, and will remain there unless broken or removed from the game via commands. We can't very much rely on the breaking method, as this would take huge amounts of time and there is no way to increase the amount of broken equipment a player is faced with and the removal is just unfair and would be complained about.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In reply to Marty's post about the primary, secondary and tertiary. This is an amazing point, and I applaud you for making it. The only thing is if you are basically saying to people "Go to the tertiary sector and build etc" in order to make money, we are just going to be faced with the same problem. Everyone is going to have the same idea, they will open their skin shops, art shops, building companies whatever and will create IMMENSE competition. This will drain the supply very fast, and since everyone now has access to be able to sell this building service, skin service etc, the supply will be huge and demand will diminish after everyone has received this service already.

This is why economics are so tricky and must be watched constantly. The perfect economy is where there is enough, but not too much primary workers in order to create a large supply which is quickly being used by the larger secondary sector in production. Then the tertiary sector is even bigger, as they use the final products (Eg Smooth stone, bricks, etc) to provide a service. You can't just say

[Q]The service economy is /the/ place to be right now for money making in Massive[/Q]

Because true as it may be, it will not last forever. It is amazing, as you stated, to see the economy developing like a real one! This adds life and structure to massive, instead of making it just feel like a blank piece of paper with randomly changing numbers on it. But the key is BALANCE. If there are too many primary sectors, what is happening now happens. If there is too many secondary, the resources get used to quickly and the demand is high but the supply is low so prices go to EXTORTIONATE amounts and if there are too many tertiary sector suppliers (I.e builders) then the competition becomes high, resources for building and tools run out and again, the prices go too high. At the moment with the Tertiary sector on massive, the only reason we see these huge auctions of 20000 regals is due to the huge demand for amazing pieces like this and the small supply. If everyone and their mother decides to come over to it, this demand will quickly be filled and the supply will outweigh the demand, decreasing prices. We need to constantly have a thing called economic growth. This is whereby there is an increase in the production of goods and services from one year to the next. This is achieved by having equal amounts of people and investments in each of the sectors,, because otherwise the scales tip to be unbalanced and only one sector has people in it, causing the problems listed above. We need to have enough primary outputs, so the secondary sector has enough to fill their inputs, so then they can produce tools, building supplies, etc which becomes inputs for the tertiary, so that they may produce services such as protecting the harvesting of these diamonds. It needs to be an equilateral triangle when put into a diagram, not an irregular one.
 
Don't really see whats broken about the economy. Plenty of different ways to make easy money in areas that fit you. There's tons of options other then simply selling god items or lore items.
 
ya'll want prices to go up for something everyone can get with extreme ease. would be like selling dirt IRL.
live with teh fact that it doesn't earn you so much money anymore, it's too common. i have stacks upon stacks of dia emerlad, coal iron and gold, all gotten before massiverestore and after teh fishing mayham. weird enough, i managed to seel a stack gold blocks for 750R a coupl weeks ago.
i bet that, if the fishing mayahm never happend, the price of a diamond maybe would be 1R higher?
 
The biggest problem with this post is that you imply without justification that lower prices on diamonds, God armour, etc. is a problem. Why? The reason that prices are going down is that these resources are actually quite plentiful, so many people try to make a living by selling diamonds, and the supply is so much higher than demand. In a real life economy, the supply would decrease as people can't make a living by it and thus follow other lines of work. However, here, one doesn't need regals, so one continues to pursue this futile line of work. There is a huge backlog of diamonds and prices aren't going to go up and shouldn't go up. If fishing hadn't been introduced, we would still have reached this point, it just would've taken us longer to get here.

In the end, the point is actually quite simple. Cheap diamonds does not equal broken economy. Cheap diamonds means that the economy is shifting. Particularly in an increasingly RP-focussed community, and since the levels of these items are held quite low, lore items are valuable. Supply is low and, for most items, staying there, while demand is increasing. A great deal of richer players are those in the RP community, even very new players, as they offer services rather than raw materials.

The economy is not broken, it's changed. For those who depend on raw materials, change your approach.

EDIT: I've only ever seen PvP-focussed players who depend on sale of God gear and diamonds make posts complaining about the economy, which you can draw your own conclusion from.
 
I personally feel there is no need for this reply. Ben went to a lot of trouble to make this post, with some very well constructed and correct ideas and you just go ahead and post this picture without leaving any constructive criticism of any kind. If you are going to leave a picture which is obviously aimed to arouse some laughs or mock the post, then at least have the common decency to explain your reasoning. This is a serious post about a serious issue... Some help, not playground comedy would help...

My post was a serious reply, and it is possible it simply went over some people's heads because they don't know what Margaret Thatcher stands for, or who she was. Margaret Thatcher led the biggest privatization and shut down of financially ruinous parts of the British economy of any PM's rule. Regardless of whether people believe she saved the British economy from bankruptcy or ruined the social spectrum of many small mining communities, the following:

Ben utterly ignored a series of intelligent well thought out posts on analyzing the economic situation of Massive. Instead of discourse, he decides all of them are wrong and his magical band aid solution will be the magical solution the economy needs. That and he believes his ideas are worth replying to, but he doesn't actually bother to reply in a constructive fashion to anything that has preceded him. The problem is just that: he is suggesting a temporary band aid that, while also being temporary, it's a band aid to mend a problem that isn't even a problem. The entire thing floats on the idea that the supply of diamonds should be lowered, but then he's ignoring the fact that an immediate increase in diamond price will result in a huge influx of diamond miners who suddenly think their chances of getting money are getting better, and so they dump thousands more diamonds on the economy and we wouldn't be any worse or better off than before. Fishing is not the problem, it never was. I see fishing as a temporary industrialization that pushed the resource economy ahead to where it was headed anyway.

Diamonds have progressed into the value of dirt. I think the only real reason people have some sort sentiment that it should be worth anything is because it's diamond, but honestly if it was steel, it'd not be any different.

Diamonds are a resource that mostly pvp'ers need, but everyone can produce regardless of their game play style. Therefor it is not a good indicator of economic health or something the economy should be focusing on at all.


We're well aware of this, which is why we constantly look for new ways to sink cash on the higher end of the playing field, much like how guild wars 2 does it with the mystic forge and Black lion chests/keys. That, and Minecraft continues to invent new blocks, ergo new sources of primary input. If Diamonds are low in value, why not just start mining clay and quartz? Those still sell for good numbers. We as staff can also invent new crafting recipes to boost up the secondary sector.
 
Last edited:
What about the huge amounts of money that people get by buying premium? Surely that causes more trouble than voting item trade on the long run.

Just my opinion, I'm not an expert in this. Please don't eat me.
 
What about the huge amounts of money that people get by buying premium? Surely that causes more trouble than voting item trade on the long run.

Just my opinion, I'm not an expert in this. Please don't eat me.
The server runs on premium donations, if regals weren't offered less would buy it. Premium regals do not need to be removed for that reason, and nothing is wrong with the economy.
 
The server runs on premium donations, if regals weren't offered less would buy it. Premium regals do not need to be removed for that reason, and nothing is wrong with the economy.

I'm fully fine with prems having their perks,features and such, but this just floods tons of money in the economy.
 
My post was a serious reply, and it is possibly it simply went over some people's head because they don't know what Margaret Thatcher stands for, or who she was. Margaret Thatcher led the biggest privatization and shut down of financially ruinous parts of the British economy of any PM's rule. Regardless of whether people believe she saved the British economy from bankruptcy or ruined the social spectrum of many small mining communities, the following:

Ben utterly ignored a series of intelligent well thought out posts on analyzing the economic situation of Massive. Instead of discourse, he decides all of them are wrong and his magical band aid solution will be the magical solution the economy needs. The problem is just that: he is suggesting a temporary band aid that, while also being temporary, it's a band aid to mend a problem that isn't even a problem. The entire thing floats on the idea that the supply of diamonds should be lowered, but then he's ignoring the fact that an immediate increase in diamond price will result in a huge influx of diamond miners who suddenly think their chances of getting money are getting better, and so they dump thousands more diamonds on the economy and we wouldn't be any worse or better off than before. Fishing is not the problem, it never was. I see fishing as a temporary industrialization that pushed the resource economy ahead to where it was headed anyway.

Diamonds have progressed into the value of dirt. I think the only real reason people have some sort sentiment that it should be worth anything is because it's diamond, but honestly if it was steel, it'd not be any different.

Diamonds are a resource that mostly pvp'ers need, but everyone can produce regardless of their game play style. Therefor it is not a good indicator of economic health or something the economy should be focusing on at all.



We're well aware of this, which is why we constantly look for new ways to sink cash on the higher end of the playing field, much like how guild wars 2 does it with the mystic forge and Black lion chests/keys. That, and Minecraft continues to invent new blocks, ergo new sources of primary input. If Diamonds are low in value, why not just start mining clay and quartz? Those still sell for good numbers. We as staff can also invent new crafting recipes to boost up the secondary sector.

I 100% agree with you. The thing is we can't just be encouraging people to abandon the Primary sector because then the triangle collapses. I believe a new item should be introduced by the staff, which has a significant use in both roleplay and in pvp. This would balance the market as it would be a universal top dollar item, for example in real life this is oil and coffee. What this item is or what it's functionality will be, I will leave up to you guys (I have lvl 0 creativity :P).
 
Do you know why people make a post about this "every 9 days"? Because the economy is actually screwed up.
I also find it fairly ironic that the biggest criticizers of my ideas are people who only buy lore items and besides that aren't involved in the economy in really any other way. (Not talking about @OldManJ98 )
I can sell 2 enchanted eggs for more than a set of the best armor and weapons.
The fact that I'm trying to help out with some constructive ideas and just get a sarcastic post, which I assume is mocking me for being stupid, but won't respond respectfully, or at all, to why my ideas would not help the server's economy.


Seriously?

You completly ignored the graph?
 
My post was a serious reply, and it is possible it simply went over some people's heads because they don't know what Margaret Thatcher stands for, or who she was. Margaret Thatcher led the biggest privatization and shut down of financially ruinous parts of the British economy of any PM's rule. Regardless of whether people believe she saved the British economy from bankruptcy or ruined the social spectrum of many small mining communities, the following:

Ben utterly ignored a series of intelligent well thought out posts on analyzing the economic situation of Massive. Instead of discourse, he decides all of them are wrong and his magical band aid solution will be the magical solution the economy needs. That and he believes his ideas are worth replying to, but he doesn't actually bother to reply in a constructive fashion to anything that has preceded him. The problem is just that: he is suggesting a temporary band aid that, while also being temporary, it's a band aid to mend a problem that isn't even a problem. The entire thing floats on the idea that the supply of diamonds should be lowered, but then he's ignoring the fact that an immediate increase in diamond price will result in a huge influx of diamond miners who suddenly think their chances of getting money are getting better, and so they dump thousands more diamonds on the economy and we wouldn't be any worse or better off than before. Fishing is not the problem, it never was. I see fishing as a temporary industrialization that pushed the resource economy ahead to where it was headed anyway.

Diamonds have progressed into the value of dirt. I think the only real reason people have some sort sentiment that it should be worth anything is because it's diamond, but honestly if it was steel, it'd not be any different.

Diamonds are a resource that mostly pvp'ers need, but everyone can produce regardless of their game play style. Therefor it is not a good indicator of economic health or something the economy should be focusing on at all.



We're well aware of this, which is why we constantly look for new ways to sink cash on the higher end of the playing field, much like how guild wars 2 does it with the mystic forge and Black lion chests/keys. That, and Minecraft continues to invent new blocks, ergo new sources of primary input. If Diamonds are low in value, why not just start mining clay and quartz? Those still sell for good numbers. We as staff can also invent new crafting recipes to boost up the secondary sector.
You most obviously have not tried to sell clay. It's a little hard to get large quantities and people pay very very low prices for it.
 
You most obviously have not tried to sell clay. It's a little hard to get large quantities and people pay very very low prices for it.
Correct I am on the buying end of the scale. All I know is that I tend to buy out Film_Noir's hardened stained clay shop periodically regardless of the price because I can't be arsed to jungle hunt the stuff.
 
Correct I am on the buying end of the scale. All I know is that I tend to buy out Film_Noir's hardened stained clay shop periodically regardless of the price because I can't be arsed to jungle hunt the stuff.
Yep. And simultaneously, I make thousands of Regals just from selling the stained clay alone. In my shop, I also sell minor things like beds and fishing rods and such for 1r each, for people who are just starting out, and believe it or not, that's a steady trickle of Regals also, but I make the bulk of my Regals from simply selling the clay.
 
Last edited:
Simply disable hoppers, make auto potions brewers, auto egg collection systems etc impossible and over night the primary sector will be needed more again. It would simply need more people to get or do all that stuff that is now automised by hoppers, adding more balance to the economy.
(and I assume it would lagg a tiny bit less too).

*grabs popcorn and waits to be destroyed*

(p.s.: I wouldn't be happy about it, but I believe it would help)
 
Simply disable hoppers, make auto potions brewers, auto egg collection systems etc impossible and over night the primary sector will be needed more again. It would simply need more people to get or do all that stuff that is now automised by hoppers, adding more balance to the economy.
(and I assume it would lagg a tiny bit less too).

*grabs popcorn and waits to be destroyed*

(p.s.: I wouldn't be happy about it, but I believe it would help)
I hope you understand that this will not only upset a large number of players, but even move the economy backwards, reversing the development it has enjoyed. Usually, when people think of a first world country, they don't think of farms, they think of services, refined products, and information systems. The primary sector's ideal state is to be managed by a few groups, but managed with high efficiency, rather than managed by the many with low efficiency. Save effort where effort can be saved.
 
I hope you understand that this will not only upset a large number of players, but even move the economy backwards, reversing the development it has enjoyed. Usually, when people think of a first world country, they don't think of farms, they think of services, refined products, and information systems. The primary sector's ideal state is to be managed by a few groups, but managed with high efficiency, rather than managed by the many with low efficiency. Save effort where effort can be saved.

It's not moving it backwards, it's balancing it. Players providing services would rather completely focus on that, leaving the supply of goods to others, because it would be to time consuming doing it all. Thus players wouldn't be "forced" to be "creative", an artist or an antiques dealer (lore items), but could still make money with carrots and eggs. If not all players start dealing with lore items, the prices of them stay nice too. Same goes for any other services. Darkroom building stays lucrative, because not everyone gets into it, because some decide to make money with pies.. and so on.

And I don't think it would upset me as much as not getting money when buying premium ;P
 
It's not moving it backwards, it's balancing it. Players providing services would rather completely focus on that, leaving the supply of goods to others, because it would be to time consuming doing it all. Thus players wouldn't be "forced" to be "creative", an artist or an antiques dealer (lore items), but could still make money with carrots and eggs. If not all players start dealing with lore items, the prices of them stay nice too. Same goes for any other services. Darkroom building stays lucrative, because not everyone gets into it, because some decide to make money with pies.. and so on.

And I don't think it would upset me as much as not getting money when buying premium ;P
There is more than just being creative and selling lore items that can make money outside of the primary market sector. I don't have a whole lot of creativity in comparison to others, nor can I draw to save my life, I don't even have much in terms of a lore item stock. But, what I do have is the ability to use redstone well. What you are assuming is that you should be able to keep doing the same thing and expect it to always attract attention. When a lot of people can do it or it is easy, nobody cares. And frankly, this isn't a problem. Does it not make sense that those who can do more than just the simple tasks of mining and farming should be able to make more income? Would you say that various applications which make jobs easier should not exist just so those jobs pay more? I think not. If you have a special technique for gathering resources that is superior to everyone else's methods, then by all means use it, you can profit easily like that. But reversing economic and technological progress is not a sane solution in any case.
 
I'm pretty sure as redstone specialist you still make more money than a carrot seller. even if the hoppers would get disabled. I don't think disabling the hoppers would turn the economy around O.o
I can understand that you feel threatened working with redstone, but there are plenty things to build without hoppers. (Secret doors for example)
 
I'm pretty sure as redstone specialist you still make more money than a carrot seller. even if the hoppers would get disabled. I don't think disabling the hoppers would turn the economy around O.o
I can understand that you feel threatened working with redstone, but there are plenty things to build without hoppers. (Secret doors for example)
As a redstoner and as an alchemist, I can tell you that many wars will not be sanely possible as they currently stand if hoppers were to be disabled. This will further hurt the already marginalized pvp community. Also, you'd be surprised by how many people are able to make their own piston doors. And the reason that I have more potential than someone who only farms is that what I provide is generally needed more. What you are suggesting is to remove technological advances which have circulated an obscenely large amount of regals through the economy in their construction. Do you not see that hoppers are one of the biggest uses of iron? If you take away hoppers, you actually hurt the miners even more. This is on top of angering most of the server as most developed factions have machines, some of them which cost a small fortune to make. They then have to take those down. Do you really want to go down that path? On top of that, you would drive the value of gold down the drain since one of the primary uses for gold is alchemy ingredients. Since you would no longer have the same brewing capabilities, you wouldn't need anywhere near as much gold. So, do you really think that it helps the primary sector? You would take away one of the most valued ore blocks from the market essentially. While diamonds may sell for more each, gold sells much more easily due to it's mass usage.
 
As a redstoner and as an alchemist, I can tell you that many wars will not be sanely possible as they currently stand if hoppers were to be disabled. This will further hurt the already marginalized pvp community.

No, it would enhance your position as alchemist, and you would finally get rid of the many potions you made to level up.

Do you not see that hoppers are one of the biggest uses of iron? If you take away hoppers, you actually hurt the miners even more.

Iron is used for many things, not just hoppers. Armour, fences (also in building used, not just armour), shears, for beacons in dark rooms, etc. Besides: I think an anvil takes the first place for iron usage, because they wear off and disappear. A hopper will be there forever.
So the iron will still get used and it will still be worth mining it.

This is on top of angering most of the server as most developed factions have machines, some of them which cost a small fortune to make. They then have to take those down. Do you really want to go down that path?

If simply the ability of a hopper collecting the item would be disabled, then nothing needs to be taken down, it just wouldn't work anymore and would give someone a job. If we are still able to build them, we can also use them as decoration (yes, some builders are able to use them as decoration in their builds, so that it doesn't look sh*t) and that again would take some iron.

On top of that, you would drive the value of gold down the drain since one of the primary uses for gold is alchemy ingredients. Since you would no longer have the same brewing capabilities, you wouldn't need anywhere near as much gold.

On the contrary: more people will take up brewing because the PVPers need the potions and rather pay for them than brewing themselves. Thus even more people will require gold for the potions. Same goes for the other ingredients.
It's by the way a rumour that you are quicker brewing with a machine. If you know how, you can brew a double chest full of potions in less than a minute.

So, do you really think that it helps the primary sector? You would take away one of the most valued ore blocks from the market essentially. While diamonds may sell for more each, gold sells much more easily due to it's mass usage.

Yes, I think it would balance the economy, no it wouldn't take away gold and iron and I don't see why diamonds should sell for more because of this?
 
No, it would enhance your position as alchemist, and you would finally get rid of the many potions you made to level up.
nope, not realy.
Iron is used for many things, not just hoppers. Armour, fences (also in building used, not just armour), shears, for beacons in dark rooms, etc. Besides: I think an anvil takes the first place for iron usage, because they wear off and disappear. A hopper will be there forever.
So the iron will still get used and it will still be worth mining it.
have you any idea how much iron i used only to have enough hoppers to make semi auto brewer? mor then i ever used iron for other things combined. and i think i'm not the only one who uses stacks upon stacks of those.
If simply the ability of a hopper collecting the item would be disabled, then nothing needs to be taken down, it just wouldn't work anymore and would give someone a job. If we are still able to build them, we can also use them as decoration (yes, some builders are able to use them as decoration in their builds, so that it doesn't look sh*t) and that again would take some iron.
well yea, disable their primairy function.. so even less iron would get used.
On the contrary: more people will take up brewing because the PVPers need the potions and rather pay for them than brewing themselves. Thus even more people will require gold for the potions. Same goes for the other ingredients.
It's by the way a rumour that you are quicker brewing with a machine. If you know how, you can brew a double chest full of potions in less than a minute.
you seriously think that gold would become more valuable? *looks towards the rift with their zombie pigman that happen to drop golden nuggets*

TL; DR
disabeling hopper and do manual labour?
original.jpeg
 
I actually enjoy making potions manually. It's the way they're meant to be made. Not everything has to be automatized and industrialised.