Archived Take Care To Read This. Races Back.

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DestrousDeus

DestrousDeus

Races are worth.
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Ok
Basically, We might of got on the wrong foot at the start of this. But at the moment I would 100% agree PvP is unfair and not balanced at all. Therefore races should be brought back. The problems with traits is that it takes no skill at all... Your probably reading this and thinking: Well, Your just trying to make this unfair for the prems etc etc... Well no actually... We are trying to make it more fair for non-pvpers,pvpers , Non-Prems we respect all kind of people in the Massivecraft Community.

Races are a lot more fair and the factions were different. You simply cannot just make a orc faction now.. I dreamed of making one. I did it was called Xolkug, I recruited and nobody was a orc....

The main reason that we all know... 3 hit and your dead... If you get hit 3 times you die... So if you can have a reaction of 1.3 seconds you could be able to survive but how many people have that fast of a reaction.. But then when your in a 2v1 or 3v2 you lost... Which ever side your on. Every person will die..

#RaceRiot.

Thank you for reading!

NOW YOU CAN COMMENT.
 
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The solution to bugged and/or overpowered traits isn't removing them completely and replacing them with races. It's nerfing the traits that are causing problems and fixing said bugs. It isn't simple to do and it takes patience; that doesn't mean throwing a "riot"(more like temper tantrum) about it. You've already dug yourself into a deeper hole by spamming in-game, and now, spamming these threads that nobody other than your little group seems to be in favor of. Threatening to leave the server instead of actually providing compelling arguments to fix the issues associated with traits isn't helping your or anyone else's cause.
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Vyi said:
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The solution to bugged and/or overpowered traits isn't removing them completely and replacing them with races. It's nerfing the traits that are causing problems and fixing said bugs. It isn't simple to do and it takes patience; that doesn't mean throwing a "riot"(more like temper tantrum) about it. You've already dug yourself into a deeper hole by spamming in-game, and now, spamming these threads that nobody other than your little group seems to be in favor of. Threatening to leave the server instead of actually providing compelling arguments to fix the issues associated with traits isn't helping your or anyone else's cause.
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I just gave you 3 arguments.
 
-insert laughter here- This is a lousy argument for races. You should have pointed out that races are basically pre-built traits without the glitches, or that races fit into the roleplay of the server better, or that races force people to pay a (real) price for the buffs they get. Not just emphasizing the glitches in traits (which is probably already being worked on).
 
Vyi said:
You've already dug yourself into a deeper hole by spamming in-game, and now, spamming these threads that nobody other than your little group seems to be in favor of.​
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I wouldn't say that PvPer's are a little group. Yes, I am implying that basically every single PvPer hates traits, which I'm pretty sure is 99% true.
 
@DestrousDeus I agree that traits are buggy, but maybe instead of spamming threads you could make just one thread where you...
1. List which traits are buggy and need fixing
2. present your arguments better instead of spamming #traitsbad #bringbackraces
 
DestrousDeus said:

The problems with traits is that it takes no skill at all...
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So how do races take skill? Both traits and races consist of typing commands into your chatbox in order to receive certain benefits or attributes. If you're saying that traits are broken and unbalanced, the solution would simply be to fix traits wouldn't it? Switching back to races would simply make the development of traits a huge waste of time.

DestrousDeus said:
You simply cannot just make a orc faction now.. I dreamed of making one. I did it was called Xolkug, I recruited and nobody was a orc....
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Of course you can make an orc faction now. Get a prerequisite trait build that you would think fits orcs and recruit people who like to bash heads in. Tada! You now have a group of orcs. Frankly your points are illogical, and do a poor job at providing evidence that switching to races would be useful right now. Tell me why switching to races would be better than fixing the trait system we have currently.
 
Joshy54100 said:
I wouldn't say that PvPer's are a little group. Yes, I am implying that basically every single PvPer hates traits, which I'm pretty sure is 99% true.
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Joshy from PvP'er to PvP'er I really do like traits but not the bugs that they cause. If all the bugs were fixed I'd rather have traits than races but currently I agree that races would be much more viable in pvp to avoid getting insta killed/3 shot.
 
DestrousDeus said:
I just gave you 3 arguments.
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And I countered them with but one statement; your method of solving the problems with traits isn't the best, nor most logical solution. If you genuinely want your qualms with the current status of the plugin to be recognized, then file a formal complaint and perhaps staff will take your concerns into consideration. "Rioting" isn't going to fix a damn thing and is only going to make people laugh at you, ignore you, and feel less inclined to do something about it.
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Joshy54100 said:
I wouldn't say that PvPer's are a little group. Yes, I am implying that basically every single PvPer hates traits, which I'm pretty sure is 99% true.
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I was referring to the people who've been spamming and making fools of themselves. I don't think they make up a very significant portion of the population.
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You're forgetting one major thing about plugins. Progress. The trait plugin is a relatively new system and yes it has its ups and downs and so did the Race plugin before being tweaked and changed over time progressing to the point which you enjoyed it most.
The traits plugin will undergo the exact same process of working out the kinks by nerfing, buffing or removing traits and eventually progressing to a stage in which no just you but other players will enjoy more than they currently do, and I'm not saying they don't enjoy now. So instead of simply ranting about the Trait plugin by pointing out it's flaws then demanding to bring back the previous plugin, which is a lazy conclusion to come to, you should perhaps place suggestions for the plugin in the suggestion part of the forum.

To the Orc faction problem: Enforce your faction rules.
 
Another thread about this, oh my!
Now, replacing traits would upset a good amount of people, and please others. If you are to remove traits, what's to stop the other half of the player base to do what you are doing now, with your protests and rather silly '#RaceRiot'? And having both at the same time would create a horrid, glitchy mess. Races are rigid, and while being less buggy, they restricted the freedom for roleplayers to create a character with select traits. Traits are more flexible, allowing more freedom, with the down side of being glitchy in PvP. If this change were to happen, you'd be adhering to a single side, ignoring whether or not if others might love the plugin. You only focus on the PvP side it seems. What about roleplayers, like myself? Why would /we/ want to change?
 
suzzie2 said:
Another thread about this, oh my!
Now, replacing traits would upset a good amount of people, and please others. If you are to remove traits, what's to stop the other half of the player base to do what you are doing now, with your protests and rather silly '#RaceRiot'? And having both at the same time would create a horrid, glitchy mess. Races are rigid, and while being less buggy, they restricted the freedom for roleplayers to create a character with select traits. Traits are more flexible, allowing more freedom, with the down side of being glitchy in PvP. If this change were to happen, you'd be adhering to a single side, ignoring whether or not if others might love the plugin. You only focus on the PvP side it seems. What about roleplayers, like myself? Why would /we/ want to change?
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We actually already have "a horrid, glitchy mess." That's why we're asking for races to be re-added.
 
Personally, I don't mind either way. While the races were rigid and had a specific set of unique skills, they were reasonable. Some races are just stronger than others and that made sense to me. The traits are very customizable and well done, but I tend to think they can be incredibly over powered. As @panic15 stated before me, they're working on the plugin and they'll continue to tweak it until it is reliable. Change is good, despite most having an aversion to it.
 
Bugs aside, I'm against traits anyway. Traits PVP in general is less fun than races. The bugs are just extra incentive to want traits removed. TBH, traits are one of the main reasons I stopped PVPing, and playing massive in general.
 
65jes89 said:
We actually already have "a horrid, glitchy mess." That's why we're asking for races to be re-added.
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Did you not read what came after that? You took it out of context. I said having both traits AND races would lead to a disaster, because I doubt they would remove traits just for the PvPers.
 
suzzie2 said:
Another thread about this, oh my!
Now, replacing traits would upset a good amount of people, and please others. If you are to remove traits, what's to stop the other half of the player base to do what you are doing now, with your protests and rather silly '#RaceRiot'? And having both at the same time would create a horrid, glitchy mess. Races are rigid, and while being less buggy, they restricted the freedom for roleplayers to create a character with select traits. Traits are more flexible, allowing more freedom, with the down side of being glitchy in PvP. If this change were to happen, you'd be adhering to a single side, ignoring whether or not if others might love the plugin. You only focus on the PvP side it seems. What about roleplayers, like myself? Why would /we/ want to change?
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"If you remove traits , what's to stop the other half of the player base to do what you are doing now, with your protests and rather silly ' #RaceRiot'." If roleplayers (I am one of them) did this if traits got removed, they would quite honestly be whiny little b*****s. What most other role-players do not realize is that traits absolutely destroy PVP, meanwhile they only provide a slight aesthetic advantage over races for role-players. We can live without traits. PvP'rs can't live with traits.
 
65jes89 said:
We actually already have "a horrid, glitchy mess." That's why we're asking for races to be re-added.
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Horrid, glitchy mess! Hmmm... you know what, that sounds familiar! It's almost like the races plugin was horribly unbalanced on release as well! Of course, that could have never happened with races. I mean, it's not like the Agni and Naga were both horribly overpowered in pvp on release, after all. /Sarcasm off. New plugins are going to be buggy, especially one as large as traits. There's going to be a period of time where readjustments are needed to be made. Give the plugin some time, and if Cayorian finds it impossible for Minecraft to cope with the traits plugin, then it'll get changed .



TheBatman1016 said:
Bugs aside, I'm against traits anyway. Traits PVP in general is less fun than races. The bugs are just extra incentive to want traits removed. TBH, traits are one of the main reasons I stopped PVPing, and playing massive in general.
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Could you clarify why traits is less fun than races, bugs aside?
 
frederik049 said:
Joshy from PvP'er to PvP'er I really do like traits but not the bugs that they cause. If all the bugs were fixed I'd rather have traits than races but currently I agree that races would be much more viable in pvp to avoid getting insta killed/3 shot.
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Well, yes, I am referring to the bugs in traits. I guess I'd be fine with them, but only if they are made completely balanced and bug free again.
 
favoured said:
Horrid, glitch mess! Hmmm... you know what, that sounds familiar! It's almost like the races plugin was horribly unbalanced on release as well! Of course, that could have never happened with races. I mean, it's not like the Agni and Naga were both horribly overpowered in pvp on release, after all. /Sarcasm off. New plugins are going to be buggy, especially one as large as traits. There's going to be a period of time where readjustments are needed to be made. Give the plugin some time, and if Cayorian finds it impossible for Minecraft to cope with the traits plugin, then we'll change it.





Could you clarify why traits is less fun than races, bugs aside?
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I would be delighted to inform you. Oh where do I begin. Lets begin with flywater. Flywater gains you an exceptional advantage while in water. Before, it was a strategical move to have some maiars fight with you, but they had severe drawbacks. Now, if you are fighting near water, all it takes to even the battle is /t a flywater. There is no longer a 3-day wait period that plays a significant role.

Second point. PvPing with traits is like rolling a die. Its just based on luck. There is no way to check the traits of whoever you are at war with, which means you have no idea what to expect. If you are anywhere close to the same mcmmo and general pvp skill as whoever you are fighting, it just depends whether your traits counter his traits or vice versa. Think about it as playing rock-paper-scissors. Rock is a trait build, paper is a trait build, and scissors is a trait build. No one trait build is "better" than any of the others. It just depends which one you are going up against. I even tested this with a few faction mates. And I could go on, but I think I have said enough.
 
Anyone want my opinion? Here it is- This is a petty, pointless argument, it's going to turn to flame and generally, you all look silly with the squabbling <3
 
SirBacon12 said:
"If you remove traits , what's to stop the other half of the player base to do what you are doing now, with your protests and rather silly ' #RaceRiot'." If roleplayers (I am one of them) did this if traits got removed, they would quite honestly be whiny little b*****s. What most other role-players do not realize is that traits absolutely destroy PVP, meanwhile they only provide a slight aesthetic advantage over races for role-players. We can live without traits. PvP'rs can't live with traits.
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Then what's the difference here? Because I see people whining as well. PvP'ers can live with traits, they can wait until the bugs are worked out. Traits is a fun plugin, and removing it for one side of the playerbase would be unfair. Races wasn't perfect when it first came out, and neither is this. Be patient.
 
TheBatman1016 said:
I would be delighted to inform you. Oh where do I begin. Lets begin with flywater. Flywater gains you an exceptional advantage while in water. Before, it was a strategical move to have some maiars fight with you, but they had severe drawbacks. Now, if you are fighting near water, all it takes to even the battle is /t a flywater. There is no longer a 3-day wait period that plays a significant role.

Second point. PvPing with traits is like rolling a die. Its just based on luck. There is no way to check the traits of whoever you are at war with, which means you have no idea what to expect. If you are anywhere close to the same mcmmo and general pvp skill as whoever you are fighting, it just depends whether your traits counter his traits or vice versa. Think about it as playing rock-paper-scissors. Rock is a trait build, paper is a trait build, and scissors is a trait build. No one trait build is "better" than any of the others. It just depends which one you are going up against. I even tested this with a few faction mates. And I could go on, but I think I have said enough.
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Well wouldn't the flywater trait issue be resolved simply by making the change time between traits longer?

The second point you make is pretty solid, but something that might solve it are nicknames associated with traits, or other visual indicators. For example, if you had some traits focused on improving axes damage, your username above your head would have "Axeman" added it in parenthesis or maybe italicized.

I kinda liked the idea of a Rock-paper-scissors pvp system, as I hoped it would make battles more tactical. Armies would have different categories of troops, such as axemen, swordsmen, and archers. Each category would be specialized to go against the enemy they would most likely face, and through teamwork and discipline would beat other inferior armies. However, pvp in Massivecraft seems to be too chaotic for this, so perhaps you're right about the need to bring races back, at least for the pvp scene.
 
I agree, we've already been over this topic multiple times. It is obvious that traits will not be removed no matter how much you force it. We have to do with what we have right now. However, since the topic has been brought up multiple times, we now have a decent perspective of what needs to be changed in order to create happiness. The more we argue the imperfections, the more we waste time on enforcing the possible perfections.

Traits need more downsides.
Races need to be easily determinable for everyone.
And you people need to consider that you've given enough of your critique at this point.

Make another thread that doesn't start on the wrong foot. Please.
 
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Don't you remember when people complained about MCmmo being unbalanced? Ah, good days, good days... :P
 
Mecharic said:
Don't you remember when people complained about MCmmo being unbalanced? Ah, good days, good days... :P
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I remember when
  1. I didn't get 3 shot in PvP
  2. I didn't get people by 3 shotting them
  3. You could be hit and not worry about loosing half your health
 
TheBatman1016 said:
I would be delighted to inform you. Oh where do I begin. Lets begin with flywater. Flywater gains you an exceptional advantage while in water. Before, it was a strategical move to have some maiars fight with you, but they had severe drawbacks. Now, if you are fighting near water, all it takes to even the battle is /t a flywater. There is no longer a 3-day wait period that plays a significant role.

Second point. PvPing with traits is like rolling a die. Its just based on luck. There is no way to check the traits of whoever you are at war with, which means you have no idea what to expect. If you are anywhere close to the same mcmmo and general pvp skill as whoever you are fighting, it just depends whether your traits counter his traits or vice versa. Think about it as playing rock-paper-scissors. Rock is a trait build, paper is a trait build, and scissors is a trait build. No one trait build is "better" than any of the others. It just depends which one you are going up against. I even tested this with a few faction mates. And I could go on, but I think I have said enough.
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Say more, I like what you're saying :)
 
Wannag said:
I remember when
  1. I didn't get 3 shot in PvP
  2. I didn't get people by 3 shotting them
  3. You could be hit and not worry about loosing half your health
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Pfff, I remembered when I died in 1 shot! Started around a year and a half ago and last time I checked, still happens during pvp to me! Of course, me not wearing armor might have something to do with it....
 
This thread is sort of useless, as it's only spam, flame, and lost hopes. First of all:

Spam: You spam-screamed Regalia for your #Raceriot. That pretty much dooming your purpose the moment it starts, which isn't even needed. Seeing as staff constantly say they will not remove traits.

Flame: It will turn into flame, I haven't seen any flame other than opinions, which I respect.

Lost hopes: Like I said, staff said they wouldn't replace traits. End, of, discussion.

That's my input.
 
Noahnanzium said:
This thread is sort of useless, as it's only spam, flame, and lost hopes. First of all:

Spam: You spam-screamed Regalia for your #Raceriot. That pretty much dooming your purpose the moment it starts, which isn't even needed. Seeing as staff constantly say they will not remove traits.

Flame: It will turn into flame, I haven't seen any flame other than opinions, which I respect.

Lost hopes: Like I said, staff said they wouldn't replace traits. End, of, discussion.

That's my input.
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Oh hoho, don't forget the other screamer, kingkmm.
This thread was flame from the start, aaaand you are correct on point tres.
 
my 2 cents: i dislike races, they left me with undead because it was the best defencise one, with traits i can just run away.
anyhow:
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favoured said:
Well wouldn't the flywater trait issue be resolved simply by making the change time between traits longer?

The second point you make is pretty solid, but something that might solve it are nicknames associated with traits, or other visual indicators. For example, if you had some traits focused on improving axes damage, your username above your head would have "Axeman" added it in parenthesis or maybe italicized.

I kinda liked the idea of a Rock-paper-scissors pvp system, as I hoped it would make battles more tactical. Armies would have different categories of troops, such as axemen, swordsmen, and archers. Each category would be specialized to go against the enemy they would most likely face, and through teamwork and discipline would beat other inferior armies. However, pvp in Massivecraft seems to be too chaotic for this, so perhaps you're right about the need to bring races back, at least for the pvp scene.
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1. How exactly do you suppose we create this time gap? How should it work? It obviously can't work in the same way that the races system did.

2. That nickname/trait system sounds like a whole lot of unnecessary coding to me.

3. I also think a rock-paper-scissors system is too simple and easy. It's also pretty hard to base your strategy on what you know of your opponent when you only know what they end up choosing once you battle them for yourself.
 
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If you pay attention to this thread specifically, the only flame I can see are from the people who accuse the others of complaining, throwing a tantrum, or just being plain annoying. Everyone else is trying to be as respectable as possible. After all, flame is when you start attacking the person(s) rather than the argument in order to prove your point.

This only applies to the people who are arguing. People who stay neutral, or give their one opinion then leave aren't flamers by definition.
 
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suzzie2 said:
Oh hoho, don't forget the other screamer, kingkmm.
This thread was flame from the start, aaaand you are correct on point tres.
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I apologies for kingkmm's actions.... He's a pretty good friend of me and I just don't want him to get into any more problems than he already is in. Adapting to a whole new kind of community isn't easy for everybody I guess you could say <.<
 
frederik049 said:
I apologies for kingkmm's actions.... He's a pretty good friend of me and I just don't want him to get into any more problems than he already is in. Adapting to a whole new kind of community isn't easy for everybody I guess you could say <.<
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...Eheh. I probably shouldn't have said his name, but he was pushing my buttons in 'nother thread. I understand.
 
Laach said:
If you pay attention to this thread specifically, the only flame I can see are from the people who accuse the others of complaining, throwing a tantrum, or just being plain annoying. Everyone else is trying to be as respectable as possible. After all, flame is when you start attacking the person(s) rather than the argument in order to prove your point.

This only applies to the people who are arguing. People who stay neutral, or give their one opinion then leave aren't flamers by definition.
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To expand and give a better idea for what I meant by this: "People who accuse others of being x are flamers."
Ex. Someone who accuses someone else of being a flamer is a flamer themselves. They are using the community's general dislike of flamers in order to attack the accused person's credibility. This causes that persons argument to become invalid because no one wants to support a flamer.
Another example is when someone did something wrong in the past, and is now arguing against something you believe in. If you use that event to tarnish other people's view of him, then you are a flamer.
Just because they are/were in the wrong, doesn't mean you are in the right.

What am I trying to say by this? I'm saying you shouldn't let someone's reputation alter your decision making. If you do not like the person, that's fine. You are allowed to have an opinion. But if you treat them with disrespect because of your opinions, then you become the villain.
If someone says something you don't like, ask them nicely to stop. If they don't listen, either ignore them or report them depending on what their intentions are.
If someone is arguing something you don't believe in, don't treat it like a personal offense. If you believe that they are wrong, attempt to convince them otherwise if you can. If in the process you end up struggling to find out why they are wrong, then perhaps you need to take it from a different perspective. Don't let your ignorance prevent you from finding the truth.
 
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