Archived Stealth Traits Concept

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AndySwi

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After being away for an extended period of time, I've returned to MassiveCraft to find the race system traded for the Traits system. At first I skeptical, but quickly grew attached to these traits and the customizability behind them. You could be an archer, a warrior, a bruiser, a tank, anything you truly wanted. Anything, except possibly a Rogue. The largest "Stealth" capabilities in Minecraft outside of invisibility potions is purely just holding down the sneak button to hide your name tag. While this is handy at times, I feel it has incredibly low combat effectiveness as no matter how well you hide, the second your arrow hits and they look in your direction, you're gonna stick out like a sore thumb. I do understand that allowing players instant invisibility would be drastic, and could be incredibly abused, but I wonder as well, would it still be possible to make people feel like while they're sneaking they are actually stealthier than their character crouching down 1/4th a block?

To do this I'd realize it would require a surplus amount of balancing since the ability to vanish leads to incredibly unfair battles. My theory on this matter would be to lower the characters opacity (transparency) while they are sneaking. Perhaps by causing a characters model to fall around 50% visibility, it could allow use of shadows and dyed leather to allow a character to blend in. Obviously this is just a random idea of how it could work, but it's a semi-balanced one. The price would have to be high in terms of Traits, and it's very likely it would be limited to premium members, but I'd love to see some kind of mechanic to balance it out. Perhaps your opacity is lower when you are not moving, whilst moving or drawing a bow would cause you to become slightly more visible. This would encourage stealthier players to think more tactically about how to approach a battle their faction may currently fighting. Other small adjustments could be along the lines of, if you have stealthed for a certain period of time you could gain a 3 seconds Speed boost to allow you quick flight from a hairy situation as well as moving around a bit more fluidly while stealthed.

I can understand entirely why the admins would not want this feature incorporated, whether coding it may be difficult, or the fear of it being abused in ways against the server. I just feel it would allow people with a particular playstyle such as myself, to play the Rogue character. Other bonuses would be nice, such as charging an arrow while stealthed would give it more power, but that can easily be accompanied by taking the Archery Expert trait. Honestly, so long as full invisibility is not granted, this trait would not be incredibly powerful as in the grand scale of combat, you'd be potentially giving up 40-50+ Trait points just to be harder to find. It adds a nice element for roleplay, and allowing players to define themselves.

Anyways, this is just a concept, and it'd be nice to see it elaborated upon, so comment your guys' opinions. Would love to know via admins if it'd ever be possible to see something like this in the future of MassiveCraft!
 
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i like it
and before anyone say's "oh no, this gon be abused bai hackzor" it is possible to make a player semi-invicible. in this one server that i'm not going to name coz that might be advertising wich i don't want to do, all the players in the lobby are somwhat transparant.
 
I honestly don't get why people may think that this may get abused, while there are premium trait things that could very easily make anyone invincible... I, for one, like this idea very much. Because this'd be great for RP shenanigans.
 
Yes.
I love this idea.
I have always wanted this idea.
I am glad someone has finally asked about it.
I do have one thing to add though. This should not just make someone semi-invisible, it should also hide the nametag as well. That may have already been assumed, but I want to make sure it is there.
But yes. Give me this. And everyone else this too.
 
Suggestion: Sneak for 5 seconds and you'll vanish, accompanied by a the sound of an endermen teleporting and some smoke. The time will make it harder to abuse as it takes some time and while vanished, eating, drawing a bow, or punching will unvanish you. Your vanish time lasts around a minute and other hitting you, rightclicking you, placing a block within 3 blocks of you or eating within 3 blocks of you will also unvanish you. Pretty balanced, no?

*Idea is based/credited off the Spy class for the gamemode Annihilation*
 
Suggestion: Sneak for 5 seconds and you'll vanish, accompanied by a the sound of an endermen teleporting and some smoke. The time will make it harder to abuse as it takes some time and while vanished, eating, drawing a bow, or punching will unvanish you. Your vanish time lasts around a minute and other hitting you, rightclicking you, placing a block within 3 blocks of you or eating within 3 blocks of you will also unvanish you. Pretty balanced, no?

*Idea is based/credited off the Spy class for the gamemode Annihilation*
Hmm...not quite perfect. It shouldn't deactivate for drawing a bow, (though shooting it maybe) and it shouldn't deactivate for punching, but for dealing damage. That way you can destroy blocks without deactivating it. And there should be no time limit, but doing the shift for seconds bit should toggle it both on and off. And other people doing stuff like eating or placing blocks within 3 blocks of you should not deactivate it. Taking damage should deactivate it though. Oh, and three seconds, not five.
 
This would be interesting. For people doing detective work or scouting an area for people like the -muffled- Guard. I think this would be a great idea. I suggest the following, building upon what others have stated

Name: StealthCrouch
Cost: 50, NOT PREMIUM

Description: Sneaking for 3 seconds without moving or being damaged activates a 60% opacity decrease. Staying in sneak will constantly uphold the opacity drop. Leaving sneak will return your opacity to normal over 30 seconds. Opacity will increase by 10 every 5 seconds until normal. After this, stealth cannot be activated again for 60 seconds. Attacking or dealing damage while stealthed will trigure the opacity increase. If you are attacked while stealthed, you will remain stealthed, but will have slowness 1 for 30 seconds. Jumping will not trigger the stealth to decay. Name tags cannot be seen.
 
Always wanted this. giv 2 me i r vamp i r gon kil evry1 becus i asassin lol
*Is shot*
 
This would be interesting. For people doing detective work or scouting an area for people like the -muffled- Guard. I think this would be a great idea. I suggest the following, building upon what others have stated

Name: StealthCrouch
Cost: 50, NOT PREMIUM

Description: Sneaking for 3 seconds without moving or being damaged activates a 60% opacity decrease. Staying in sneak will constantly uphold the opacity drop. Leaving sneak will return your opacity to normal over 30 seconds. Opacity will increase by 10 every 5 seconds until normal. After this, stealth cannot be activated again for 60 seconds. Attacking or dealing damage while stealthed will trigure the opacity increase. If you are attacked while stealthed, you will remain stealthed, but will have slowness 1 for 30 seconds. Jumping will not trigger the stealth to decay. Name tags cannot be seen.
I don't like the maintaining sneak to keep invisibility bit...or the slowness if attacked in stealth bit...but everything else ok.
 
Its total invisibility, it shouldn't be conveniently perfect; invisibility SHOULD be a hassle, considering this would ALSO invis your armor, item being held and without particles. And invis pots arent that hard to make either so why not just make them
 
Its total invisibility, it shouldn't be conveniently perfect; invisibility SHOULD be a hassle, considering this would ALSO invis your armor, item being held and without particles. And invis pots arent that hard to make either so why not just make them
Because A: Not everyone has any desire to make potions...for example, I've been playing Minecraft for years and I have managed to not bother learning how to make potions, (probably should though) B: You can also make speed and jump potions, but we have traits for that, traits are not designed to give you abilities you aren't already able to have, they are designed to compliment roleplay in gameplay, which if you are a sneaky rogue does not mean chugging a potion every two minutes so people don't see you, and C: Because why the heck not?
 
Because A: Not everyone has any desire to make potions...for example, I've been playing Minecraft for years and I have managed to not bother learning how to make potions, (probably should though) B: You can also make speed and jump potions, but we have traits for that, traits are not designed to give you abilities you aren't already able to have, they are designed to compliment roleplay in gameplay, which if you are a sneaky rogue does not mean chugging a potion every two minutes so people don't see you, and C: Because why the heck not?
If its just for roleplay then I think the Annihilation thing is okay for it; the time limit for it would make sense, one shouldnt be able to vanish and if someone right clicks you then you're discovered. It's perfectly reasonable. And btw, why would you need to ACTUALLY vanish for RP?
 
What would make sense then? There needs to be some sort of thing that you need to do to remain in stealth. Otherwise you will be op
Why does there need to be something to keep you in stealth? How would it be OP? Moving quickly is essential to the use of a partial stealth ability, and you can't do that with maintaining sneak. Just holding down shift for 3 seconds, you are stealthed. Hold it down three more seconds, you are revealed. Nothing more too it.
If its just for roleplay then I think the Annihilation thing is okay for it; the time limit for it would make sense, one shouldnt be able to vanish and if someone right clicks you then you're discovered. It's perfectly reasonable. And btw, why would you need to ACTUALLY vanish for RP?
How does the time limit make sense? If I'm crouched behind a pillar in the sewers watching some vampires, I shouldn't have to worry about "OH no! My stealth ran out!". Just doesn't make sense. I suppose someone right-clicking you to be discovered works, but I am thinking of possible trolls or whatnot...And as for actually vanishing, this isn't invisibility, it is partial invisibility. 60% opacity decrease. It simply makes you harder to see. There is plenty of precedent for that in roleplay situations. And this is not JUST for RP, traits are meant to allow you character-like abilities when you are doing non-RP activities. In RP you are a dwarf? Well then get miningexpert, you are extra good at mining. You are an Orc? Get axeexpert, you are rather good with those. You are a sneaky thief or other person who does intriguing deeds under cover of stealthfullness? Get stealth and sneak into enemy bases. There you have it.
 
Why does there need to be something to keep you in stealth? How would it be OP? Moving quickly is essential to the use of a partial stealth ability, and you can't do that with maintaining sneak. Just holding down shift for 3 seconds, you are stealthed. Hold it down three more seconds, you are revealed. Nothing more too it.

How does the time limit make sense? If I'm crouched behind a pillar in the sewers watching some vampires, I shouldn't have to worry about "OH no! My stealth ran out!". Just doesn't make sense. I suppose someone right-clicking you to be discovered works, but I am thinking of possible trolls or whatnot...And as for actually vanishing, this isn't invisibility, it is partial invisibility. 60% opacity decrease. It simply makes you harder to see. There is plenty of precedent for that in roleplay situations. And this is not JUST for RP, traits are meant to allow you character-like abilities when you are doing non-RP activities. In RP you are a dwarf? Well then get miningexpert, you are extra good at mining. You are an Orc? Get axeexpert, you are rather good with those. You are a sneaky thief or other person who does intriguing deeds under cover of stealthfullness? Get stealth and sneak into enemy bases. There you have it.

If you can toggle it, what is stopping people from staying stealth all the time?
 
If you can toggle it, what is stopping people from staying stealth all the time?
The desire to do things. If all you can do when stealthed is move around, you have to get unstealthed if you want to do things like eat, build, or fight. Then there is wanting to be fully visible, I imagine that most people having a conversation in Regalia will not be doing so while stealthed. So pretty much the same thing that stops people from keeping speed and jump traits active all the time. I deactivate those when I'm not using them. Same goes with Stealth.

And then you have to wonder...what is the problem with staying stealthed all the time?
 
FYI code wise it is easy to make someone completely invisible (and only to specific other players actually).
But making the half invisible or something like that is difficult.
 
i like it
and before anyone say's "oh no, this gon be abused bai hackzor" it is possible to make a player semi-invicible. in this one server that i'm not going to name coz that might be advertising wich i don't want to do, all the players in the lobby are somwhat transparant.
I think I know what server you are talking about. Starts with a 'W', I think. May be wrong.
 
Stealth traits are a good idea, yet I would find (combat wise) a trait that lets you constantly sneak without the speed penalty more useful.
Or just a trait, that completely hides your nameplate and a trait, that makes your footsteps silent. As a player, who usually uses stealth in order to surprise his enemy or do hit and run assassinations, this would be the holy grail of traits for me.
 
The desire to do things. If all you can do when stealthed is move around, you have to get unstealthed if you want to do things like eat, build, or fight. Then there is wanting to be fully visible, I imagine that most people having a conversation in Regalia will not be doing so while stealthed. So pretty much the same thing that stops people from keeping speed and jump traits active all the time. I deactivate those when I'm not using them. Same goes with Stealth.

And then you have to wonder...what is the problem with staying stealthed all the time?

Precisely. What stops people from being stealthed all the time? How about just stealthing non-stop and getting into an enemy base and then easily slaughtering them all? I mean sooner or later theyll take off their armor, or go ark, or get weakened from some kind of fall or w/e. I mean, if you can walk around just fine totally invisible, what stops you from doing that? And why not be stealthed all the time to troll in Regalia? Not invited to a Noble Party? just stealth and sneak in with the Reds. Curious what goes on in the Prison? Just stealth and follow in with a guard. You could know alot of things your character shouldnt because "he's sneaky and snuck him and eavesdropped".
 
Precisely. What stops people from being stealthed all the time? How about just stealthing non-stop and getting into an enemy base and then easily slaughtering them all? I mean sooner or later theyll take off their armor, or go ark, or get weakened from some kind of fall or w/e. I mean, if you can walk around just fine totally invisible, what stops you from doing that? And why not be stealthed all the time to troll in Regalia? Not invited to a Noble Party? just stealth and sneak in with the Reds. Curious what goes on in the Prison? Just stealth and follow in with a guard. You could know alot of things your character shouldnt because "he's sneaky and snuck him and eavesdropped".
Exactly. Without balance, (aka running around 60% invisible all the time) then it would be abused.
 
Exactly. Without balance, (aka running around 60% invisible all the time) then it would be abused.
Im not sure how difficult it is to code opacity..but it doesnt sound easy to make something opaque. But "stealth" realistically isn't invisibility either. I honestly don't understand why we need a trait for RP "stealth". First of all, your nametag doesn't exist in RP, so people should have their characters behave the way they would without the knowledge of these floating, visible nameplates. The only "stealth" you need in RP is for you to literally, just sneak around. And you could edit your skin a little and make a "disguise" or w/e (Get a little creative and skin your character to resemble whoever you're trying to disguise yourself as). <-- actually a decent idea for the next noble party..and it'd be really fun too.
 
Precisely. What stops people from being stealthed all the time? How about just stealthing non-stop and getting into an enemy base and then easily slaughtering them all? I mean sooner or later theyll take off their armor, or go ark, or get weakened from some kind of fall or w/e. I mean, if you can walk around just fine totally invisible, what stops you from doing that? And why not be stealthed all the time to troll in Regalia? Not invited to a Noble Party? just stealth and sneak in with the Reds. Curious what goes on in the Prison? Just stealth and follow in with a guard. You could know alot of things your character shouldnt because "he's sneaky and snuck him and eavesdropped".
I'm not sure why you said precisely there...nothing you said agrees with anything I said. If you can't attack, build, eat, take damage, or in general do stuff while stealthed, then you don't stay stealthed forever. No one would do that all the time. Probably. And second, you keep assuming total invisibility. It is not. It is 60% invisibility. YOU ARE STILL VISIBLE. Which means that most of those little things you mentioned are not very much more doable then they would be normally. It would be most useful in dark places, AKA the sewers, where it is hard to see anyway. Therefore I don't think it would be abused any more then anything else. (for example, what is to stop someone from becoming really little and sneaking into that noble party using MPM? When we have it again.)
Im not sure how difficult it is to code opacity..but it doesnt sound easy to make something opaque. But "stealth" realistically isn't invisibility either. I honestly don't understand why we need a trait for RP "stealth". First of all, your nametag doesn't exist in RP, so people should have their characters behave the way they would without the knowledge of these floating, visible nameplates. The only "stealth" you need in RP is for you to literally, just sneak around. And you could edit your skin a little and make a "disguise" or w/e (Get a little creative and skin your character to resemble whoever you're trying to disguise yourself as). <-- actually a decent idea for the next noble party..and it'd be really fun too.
Using different skins is doable, but you aren't disguised all the time you want to sneak places. Also, this isn't just for Regalia RP, it is also for gameplay use. Remember that.
 
Okay, how useful is 60% opacity? It's still seeable in "dark places' if one might have a booster of any sort. Oh and btw MPM the size thing? Only works for people who use MPM and Im sure not everyone uses it (just a little note. And I did something you forgot to do (this) probably might want some link to whatever you're suggesting. just saying. And please enlighten me on how useful 60% invisibility would be in gameplay, specifically, pertaining to factions/wars/raids/etc. AND in the sewers, you wouldnt need this "stealth" to be unnoticed and unseen. most people shouldnt be able to detect you anyways.
 
Okay, how useful is 60% opacity? It's still seeable in "dark places' if one might have a booster of any sort. Oh and btw MPM the size thing? Only works for people who use MPM and Im sure not everyone uses it (just a little note. And I did something you forgot to do (this) probably might want some link to whatever you're suggesting. just saying. And please enlighten me on how useful 60% invisibility would be in gameplay, specifically, pertaining to factions/wars/raids/etc. AND in the sewers, you wouldnt need this "stealth" to be unnoticed and unseen. most people shouldnt be able to detect you anyways.
Yes, I am entirely aware that it is still "seeable". That is the point. It should be seeable. Just not easily "noticable". Yes, I know that MPM thing only works for people with MPM, which is also about 80% at least of everyone who RPs, and 99% of everyone who would be at a nobility ball. So my point is still valid. I did not forget to do that, I am supporting an idea that someone else suggested and I know is possible, I did not however suggest it, so I didn't do that little bit of background research. The person who suggested this did not "forget" it either, as it is not a requirement. So glad you "remembered" to do it. I'm sure it will be helpful. As for how it would be useful in gameplay? Probably to remain unnoticed and help sneaking. Especially since it would also hide nametags, it would be infinitely helpful just with that feature. Or in other words, so people don't see you. Simple as that.
As for your last point, yeah, ok, sure, good roleplay means they wouldn't see you. And they don't. So why would we even bother with things like MPM or traits that assist with racial abilities or even nametags at all? Because after all, they aren't needed for roleplay...
(Yes, I am being sarcastic. No, obviously we don't "need" them, the point is that they would be nice to have.)
 
Yes, I am entirely aware that it is still "seeable". That is the point. It should be seeable. Just not easily "noticable". Yes, I know that MPM thing only works for people with MPM, which is also about 80% at least of everyone who RPs, and 99% of everyone who would be at a nobility ball. So my point is still valid. I did not forget to do that, I am supporting an idea that someone else suggested and I know is possible, I did not however suggest it, so I didn't do that little bit of background research. The person who suggested this did not "forget" it either, as it is not a requirement. So glad you "remembered" to do it. I'm sure it will be helpful. As for how it would be useful in gameplay? Probably to remain unnoticed and help sneaking. Especially since it would also hide nametags, it would be infinitely helpful just with that feature. Or in other words, so people don't see you. Simple as that.
As for your last point, yeah, ok, sure, good roleplay means they wouldn't see you. And they don't. So why would we even bother with things like MPM or traits that assist with racial abilities or even nametags at all? Because after all, they aren't needed for roleplay...
(Yes, I am being sarcastic. No, obviously we don't "need" them, the point is that they would be nice to have.)
So you want 60% opacity, to hide your name tag for PvP/Survival utility? And you giving me all these numbers that you make up, like "80%(minimum) of everyone who RPs..99% of everyone at a Noble Ball".

Oh and here is the definition of "stealth" because you keep throwing it around, I thought you might want to know what it actually means- "cautious and surreptitious action or movement."Which would probably be why it shouldn't be toggled? This is my reasoning for the shifting and the time to wait before you turn invis/opaque/whatever. Honestly, I'd be fine if you could turn opaque as long as you were shifting. I'd rather not find a player in my faction base and have to chase him through a jungle while he doesnt have a nameplate. How fair is his speed+jump+opacity+no nameplate traits? If you want stealth, you should have to sacrifice mobility and convenience. If you want this for RP, it'd make sense that one would have to gather himself and basically "stealth". A trait as nice as this has to be balanced by SOME sort of counterweight.
 
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This post should be closed. It is turning into a flame argument.
 
I honestly don't get why people may think that this may get abused, while there are premium trait things that could very easily make anyone invincible... I, for one, like this idea very much. Because this'd be great for RP shenanigans.
Trust me. When invisibility potions or abilities are enabled on PvP-oriented servers, they are usually abused and can be abused easily. There has to be massive cooldowns (5 minutes or longer, more like 10 minutes really) and short durations of the abilities (or other nerf or hinderance) is added.
It simply makes it too easy to escape or too easy to attack someone without them seeing you, and if you get the jump on someone while on a Strength II on and they don't have Speed II on, you might be able to quickly subdue them in just a few short hits, especially if they have no way of easily healing (Splash Instant Health IIs) in their inventory.
As long as the way that this stealth trait is implemented is fair and has drawbacks or limitations, I am in full support.
 
Trust me. When invisibility potions or abilities are enabled on PvP-oriented servers, they are usually abused and can be abused easily. There has to be massive cooldowns (5 minutes or longer, more like 10 minutes really) and short durations of the abilities (or other nerf or hinderance) is added.
It simply makes it too easy to escape or too easy to attack someone without them seeing you, and if you get the jump on someone while on a Strength II on and they don't have Speed II on, you might be able to quickly subdue them in just a few short hits, especially if they have no way of easily healing (Splash Instant Health IIs) in their inventory.
As long as the way that this stealth trait is implemented is fair and has drawbacks or limitations, I am in full support.
Thank you! xO


This post should be closed. It is turning into a flame argument.
And Im trying to let him see exactly what @Joshy54100 has said; no nameplate, opacity and complete mobility is a terrible idea, especially when it can be toggled with FULL MOBILITY.
 
This post should be closed. It is turning into a flame argument.
Yeah, probably. I do think it might still be within the confines of "heated debate" though, we haven't been reduced to name calling...merely immense sarcasm, heated text and emphasis.
Trust me. When invisibility potions or abilities are enabled on PvP-oriented servers, they are usually abused and can be abused easily. There has to be massive cooldowns (5 minutes or longer, more like 10 minutes really) and short durations of the abilities (or other nerf or hinderance) is added.
It simply makes it too easy to escape or too easy to attack someone without them seeing you, and if you get the jump on someone while on a Strength II on and they don't have Speed II on, you might be able to quickly subdue them in just a few short hits, especially if they have no way of easily healing (Splash Instant Health IIs) in their inventory.
As long as the way that this stealth trait is implemented is fair and has drawbacks or limitations, I am in full support.
But do they deactivate whenever you do something? Or only provide partial invisibility? This is not just a normal invisi potion, remember that. Other then that though, yes I see some of those being potential problems, but only without safeguards. Although I don't think 5 minute cooldown is a good one.
And Im trying to let him see exactly what @Joshy54100 has said; no nameplate, opacity and complete mobility is a terrible idea, especially when it can be toggled with FULL MOBILITY.
See, here is where I am now going to be picky about my previous words. I said nothing about keeping full speed. (I don't think) I would be fine with a slowness effect at the same time, for example. The problem I have is the necessity to stay in sneak mode, holding down shift. THAT I do have a problem with. But much as I'd like to have the full mobility you so considerately put all in caps and bold, I would be willing to sacrifice that.
So you want 60% opacity, to hide your name tag for PvP/Survival utility? And you giving me all these numbers that you make up, like "80%(minimum) of everyone who RPs..99% of everyone at a Noble Ball".

Oh and here is the definition of "stealth" because you keep throwing it around, I thought you might want to know what it actually means- "cautious and surreptitious action or movement."Which would probably be why it shouldn't be toggled? This is my reasoning for the shifting and the time to wait before you turn invis/opaque/whatever. Honestly, I'd be fine if you could turn opaque as long as you were shifting. I'd rather not find a player in my faction base and have to chase him through a jungle while he doesnt have a nameplate. How fair is his speed+jump+opacity+no nameplate traits? If you want stealth, you should have to sacrifice mobility and convenience. If you want this for RP, it'd make sense that one would have to gather himself and basically "stealth". A trait as nice as this has to be balanced by SOME sort of counterweight.
Yes, I admit I did make up those numbers. However, if you were to do a poll, I would bet my regals that those numbers would be within 10% of being correct.

I don't care about the definition of stealth, I keep throwing it around as an easy verb for "using this potential trait". I am however wondering what your use of "opacity" means. Having a time before it activates and maybe a cooldown are acceptable. If you notice, I only wanted a reduced time-to-activate from the original idea, and I never spoke against a cooldown. I would rather not find a player in my base period, but if I have a choice between speedjumpstealth and god armor, I choose the speedjumpstealth. There are worse things to find. Please stop saying "if I want this for RP/gameplay", I want it for both. As with all traits. And yes, it can be balanced with some sort of counterweight. Maybe make it not affect worn armor? However usually, the points taken up as part of the traits system are good enough. Maybe make it cost a hundred points.

Oh, and read what Joshy said again. "is fair and has drawbacks or limitations, I am in full support." He never mentioned those things you do. Just that there are issues that must be addressed in some way.
 
Yeah, probably. I do think it might still be within the confines of "heated debate" though, we haven't been reduced to name calling...merely immense sarcasm, heated text and emphasis.

But do they deactivate whenever you do something? Or only provide partial invisibility? This is not just a normal invisi potion, remember that. Other then that though, yes I see some of those being potential problems, but only without safeguards. Although I don't think 5 minute cooldown is a good one.

See, here is where I am now going to be picky about my previous words. I said nothing about keeping full speed. (I don't think) I would be fine with a slowness effect at the same time, for example. The problem I have is the necessity to stay in sneak mode, holding down shift. THAT I do have a problem with. But much as I'd like to have the full mobility you so considerately put all in caps and bold, I would be willing to sacrifice that.

Yes, I admit I did make up those numbers. However, if you were to do a poll, I would bet my regals that those numbers would be within 10% of being correct.

I don't care about the definition of stealth, I keep throwing it around as an easy verb for "using this potential trait". I am however wondering what your use of "opacity" means. Having a time before it activates and maybe a cooldown are acceptable. If you notice, I only wanted a reduced time-to-activate from the original idea, and I never spoke against a cooldown. I would rather not find a player in my base period, but if I have a choice between speedjumpstealth and god armor, I choose the speedjumpstealth. There are worse things to find. Please stop saying "if I want this for RP/gameplay", I want it for both. As with all traits. And yes, it can be balanced with some sort of counterweight. Maybe make it not affect worn armor? However usually, the points taken up as part of the traits system are good enough. Maybe make it cost a hundred points.

Oh, and read what Joshy said again. "is fair and has drawbacks or limitations, I am in full support." He never mentioned those things you do. Just that there are issues that must be addressed in some way.
Ohkay so I guess we have reached an agreement?
 
Ohkay so I guess we have reached an agreement?
Um...maybe?
Let me reiterate what I think has been suggested that we are both ok with, I think...
60% opacity.
Cooldown...2 minutes and 30 seconds tops.
Take damage, place or break block, deal damage, or eat breaks stealth.
3 second shift activation time.
Slowness effect (can be counteracted by speed trait/potion)
Not affect worn armor...floating helmet...
...with all of this, I will return it to 50 trait points, unless we remove one of these other diminishments...

Did I miss anything?
 
Um...maybe?
Let me reiterate what I think has been suggested that we are both ok with, I think...
60% opacity.
Cooldown...2 minutes and 30 seconds tops.
Take damage, place or break block, deal damage, or eat breaks stealth.
3 second shift activation time.
Slowness effect (can be counteracted by speed trait/potion)
Not affect worn armor...floating helmet...
...with all of this, I will return it to 50 trait points, unless we remove one of these other diminishments...

Did I miss anything?
Maybe a weakness? xD But yea i like it that way
 
Hate to rain on your parade, but if I'm not mistaken, there's no way to alter a player's opacity with bukkit/spigot.
 
Hate to rain on your parade, but if I'm not mistaken, there's no way to alter a player's opacity with bukkit/spigot.
I'm pretty sure you are mistaken. I've seen servers...well, a server...where certain players were made partially invisible to each other, plugin not mod. Then there is the link provided in a post above.
 
With traits that are so glitchy that I can kill someone in 2 hits using unarmed and them NOT using unarmed vulnerable (I have video proof) you wanna add a trait that can easily get you those 2 hits without being seen? Traits need to be fixed before anything like this is considered.