Archived Ships, Yes, Ships.

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thor5648

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So I was discussing this idea last night with a coupe of buddies. Basically there is a plugin out for bukkit called ships. I have tested it, it runs very smooth, is updating to 1.7, has nearly no lag, and doesn't mess up oceans when players ride through them. What I suggest, implement this with only having admins the ability to create ships. Make a thread auctioning off 5-10 ships, starting bid would be 30,000 regals. Only for the super rich, so they aren't abused by noobs, and only 5 are made. Once the winner of each auction is decided, (they would have the do 5 seperate auctions) the winner could hire someone to make a ship, or get a designated world staff to build one. The ship would have to be approved by an admin, and then the controls would be added in and it would be moved fr the grid to whatever world the person desires. This would add a lot more role play to the server, and it could be pretty cool for trading routes to be set up for regalia and such. Again this is lag free, configurable so boats can't fly, and doesn't mess up the oceans. When it would come time for a world to be deleted, the ship would be moved. The plugin is seen here. (Ships can be made non editable once they are turned into moving ship) I have seen tons of other servers implement this with no problem, and I believe it would be a great new option for MassiveCraft!


http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/ships/
 
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desmonster said:
In principle I have to side with Alj23 on this one (me siding with a Mag Officer? - OMG). While it would be super awesome in my opinion it might get messy and labor intensive if there were too many... or cause anger if it was limited to a certain select group of people.

There are avenues for it to improve gameplay though. If certain ships at Regalia dock (not all - just a few) actually set sail at a regular time each day that would be pretty cool (then at a preordained spot all on deck are TP'd etc etc blah blah). It also might make arriving at those one or two worlds seem more exciting because you can only get there once or twice per IRL day.
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  • All current members of Magnanimus are inactive or moved to a new faction. I need to get around to changing my forum title.
  • Hiu403 I feel that if these boats were only implemented in the new quest world, that would work. Large ships moving between islands or wherever in the world. This would allow people to actually RP the journey from place to place, instead of an instant tp.
 
Only for the super rich, so they aren't abused by noobs, and only 5 are made. Once the winner of each auction is decided, (they would have the do 5 seperate auctions)
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Only 5-10 people, these should be ultra rare. I imagine the bids would go as high as 100k
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Please read the thread, there would only be 5 ships made for the highest bidders.
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Ignoring the inconsistency in these quotes, there are still only 5 ships. Again, how do you get a trade route with five ships? You say that you've talked to a lot of people who would like it, yet you severely restrict, and in many cases, make it impossible for those people to get these ships. So what, make something that everyone wants and hold it out of their reach?
thor5648
 
Thalan79 said:
Ignoring the inconsistency in these quotes, there are still only 5 ships. Again, how do you get a trade route with five ships? You say that you've talked to a lot of people who would like it, yet you severely restrict, and in many cases, make it impossible for those people to get these ships. So what, make something that everyone wants and hold it out of their reach?
thor5648
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Only for the rich. I know I certainly wouldn't get one, but I would join a crew and not complain about how only a few have them. You only need one ship for transport, trading route. Person A is selling 20 double chests of dirt, to person B. Instead trading for an hour at spawn they could just hire a ship crew to go carry the stuff over to person B for a small price. This is a thing for the people who have worked extra hard to make money on here, and have really put the time into it. Also I say 5 if each of those posts, how is that inconsistent? Do you know what that word even means?
 
A few statements regarding this.
1) How does the crewmember/owner thing work? Is it like a miniature faction on a ship, where only certain ranks of people can invite crewmates?
2) What if I drive a ship into another faction's doorway. Does that mean I've now blocked their doorway forever?
3) How are trade routes a benefit when we have portals?
4) You said this opens up new paths for roleplay. Name 5-10 famous roleplayers who have thousands of silver to spend on a boat. Now, I'm no genius, but from what I know roleplayers typically aren't filthy rich.
5) In combat wouldn't this thing be indestructible? You know, since you can just lock yourself in a cannon room with a few hundred rounds of ammo and blast away?
 
Fellbeast58blue said:
While I think this is a fantastic idea, there are a few things I think should be changed in your proposal.

Instead of only a select few ships being auctioned off by the admins, I believe that everyone should be able to create the hull of the ship. Then they can have it be reviewed by a staff member, and the staff can then add controls to it and make it movable if the ship seems acceptable. I don't think that getting a ship rigged should cost 30,000 regals, as that would only let the super rich of the server have all the fun.

Otherwise, this seems like a good idea.
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Sorry, so when has a poor person ever able to afford a ship? Realistically 30,000 Regals is generous. You have the price of Maintenence, Supplies, Materials, Time & Quality.
 
Actually you say 5-10 in one of them, and I could seen ten make a decent start to a trade network. Please stop trying to "one up" me. I get we don't agree, but this debate doesn't need to become a flame war. However 5-10 is different from 5, so that is an inconsistency, although a minor one at that. I only stated it to be exact and allow my statement to hold more water (get it? I made a boat pun) since it only works under the idea that there would only be 5 ships.
thor5648
 
Thalan79 said:
Actually you say 5-10 in one of them, and I could seen ten make a decent start to a trade network. Please stop trying to "one up" me. I get we don't agree, but this debate doesn't need to become a flame war. However 5-10 is different from 5, so that is an inconsistency, although a minor one at that. I only stated it to be exact and allow my statement to hold more water (get it? I made a boat pun) since it only works under the idea that there would only be 5 ships.
thor5648
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I suppose they could add in some more boats, but the price would still probably be crazy high. Yes, I suppose 10 boats would work.
 
Mattium_
Well, people could build there own, but I get what your saying. However i think making the restricting factor a forum application would be a better idea than making the number of Regals the restricting factor. That said, you do have a fair point that the cost is fairly low when you take in the real world costs of making ships, and then the setting that Aloria is in.
 
favoured said:
A few statements regarding this.
1) How does the crewmember/owner thing work? Is it like a miniature faction on a ship, where only certain ranks of people can invite crewmates?
2) What if I drive a ship into another faction's doorway. Does that mean I've now blocked their doorway forever?
3) How are trade routes a benefit when we have portals?
4) You said this opens up new paths for roleplay. Name 5-10 famous roleplayers who have thousands of silver to spend on a boat. Now, I'm no genius, but from what I know roleplayers typically aren't filthy rich.
5) In combat wouldn't this thing be indestructible? You know, since you can just lock yourself in a cannon room with a few hundred rounds of ammo and blast away?
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1. I would have it set up like a faction, have the boat dock claimed and invite people who want to join your crew, then go outside that faction.
2.You cannot drive a boat into blocks, it pushes it back after hitting one.
3.It is more rp, and as I said earlier if it is mass bulk you may want to use a ship.
4.I am sure if they got a team together a few of the noble families could throw in a silver here and a silver there and manage to buy one.
 
Thalan79 said:
Mattium_
Well, people could build there own, but I get what your saying. However i think making the restricting factor a forum application would be a better idea than making the number of Regals the restricting factor. That said, you do have a fair point that the cost is fairly low when you take in the real world costs of making ships, and then the setting that Aloria is in.
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Now that's a nice concept. Have it as they have many things - A reward for recognition of RP.
Though people couldn't just 'make their own'. Ships take a lot of people to build.
 
Mattium_
Sorta. I actually take contracts from time to time to build nagan vessels for others, and while it takes a lot of resources and time I do it alone. That said, gather the resources it always a pain, and it does take some time to finish. That is where the real world and minecraft agree. However, if I were to take the time to actually gather people to work together as a team to build ships, I imagine we could build massive ships in stupidly shorts amounts of time. That's why I would prefer the application method, as it would allow the server to by pass the differences between the real world and minecraft in that regard.
 
Mattium_ said:
Sorry, so when has a poor person ever able to afford a ship? Realistically 30,000 Regals is generous. You have the price of Maintenence, Supplies, Materials, Time & Quality.
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Im not saying that to get a ship rigged it should be at an extremely low price, that would be ridiculous, but I still don't think it should be at a ridiculously high price.

Sorry, so when has a poor person ever able to afford a ship?
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Since when is a poor person able to afford to build a huge house in the wilderness? Since when is a poor person able to have a faction with a large city in it. I personally could be classified as "poor" since I don't have much regals in my pocket, yet I have a prosperous faction. This is minecraft, where you can be poor yet still live in a palace, or have several sets of precious diamond armor,all you have to do is get the materials. So I don't see your logic about why a supposedly poor person can't have a ship. Besides, that isn't fair to the people who have many things to do IRL and can't spend a lot of time grinding for money. Everyone should deserve to have fun with this if it's implemented.
 
thor5648
So you're solution to the obsidian cannon ship of despair is to just board it? One could just place dispensers all over their ship with splash damage potions to prevent boarding parties. I think you should take as much time to respond to the point as you did with the others.
 
Fellbeast58blue said:
Im not saying that to get a ship rigged it should be at an extremely low price, that would be ridiculous, but I still don't think it should be at a ridiculously high price.


Since when is a poor person able to afford to build a huge house in the wilderness? Since when is a poor person able to have a faction with a large city in it. I personally could be classified as "poor" since I don't have much regals in my pocket, yet I have a prosperous faction. This is minecraft, where you can be poor yet still live in a palace, or have several sets of precious diamond armor,all you have to do is get the materials. So I don't see your logic about why a supposedly poor person can't have a ship. Besides, that isn't fair to the people who have many things to do IRL and can't spend a lot of time grinding for money. Everyone should deserve to have fun with this if it's implemented.
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There's ships, not a horse - It's Realistic to have it at a high price. Besides that's not a ridiculously high price - It's a generously fitting price.
A Blacksmith shouldn't be able to buy a ship just like that.
thor5648 said:
This would add a lot more role play to the server,
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It defeats the purpose to even bring in this concept of a Role-play ship if we had anyone able to make one, Doesn't it?
Just because you can build a house on this server, and run a faction at a low price, doesn't mean anyone should have the skills, nor the materials, nor the manpower, nor the knowledge to be able to build a ship.

The theme is Medieval, not 'have' something just because you want it.
I personally, could not afford a ship at that price straight away - Nor have I earned it. I think you're being rather selfish to expect to just have one at a lower price.
And no, you don't have to spend your life trying to get the silver together, you just need to learn a few tricks in business, find something the server wants and implement it.

Besides this point, there's already a suggestion to have Admins determine who gets it as a alternative - Though, you probably find that unfair as well....
 
I like the plugin, I think it should be implemented somehow with strict limitations, I think the Thor's idea on how to limit/distribute them is very not good. At all. Period.
 
Mattium_ said:
There's ships, not a horse - It's Realistic to have it at a high price. Besides that's not a ridiculously high price - It's a generously fitting price.
A Blacksmith shouldn't be able to buy a ship just like that.

It defeats the purpose to even bring in this concept of a Role-play ship if we had anyone able to make one, Doesn't it?
Just because you can build a house on this server, and run a faction at a low price, doesn't mean anyone should have the skills, nor the materials, nor the manpower, nor the knowledge to be able to build a ship.

The theme is Medieval, not 'have' something just because you want it.
I personally, could not afford a ship at that price straight away - Nor have I earned it. I think you're being rather selfish to expect to just have one at a lower price.
And no, you don't have to spend your life trying to get the silver together, you just need to learn a few tricks in business, find something the server wants and implement it.

Besides this point, there's already a suggestion to have Admins determine who gets it as a alternative - Though, you probably find that unfair as well....
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Where do I say i expect to get one for a lower price…? I specifically said I doubt i would ever get one if this were to be implemented...
 
thor5648 said:
*Facepalm* I have tested this, it adds no lag and doesn't really require more than one staff member to do… The only thing that could make this cause any sort of lag is the fact that there are more blocks in the world. Why does everyone think that when things move, it adds LAG.
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Incorrect. I believe, from what I've heard, that 70% of the lag that was caused(and still is today, if you look at the hopper and mine cart lag machines) are caused by moving blocks or entities. Not to mention that when you have a giant frigate or warship moving through the ocean at a very fast rate, it could not only drop the TPS, but also attack the clients of players, giving them extremely low FPS.

You also have to take into consideration that MassiveCraft is usually always above 100 players. When you tested it, it was probably a maximum of 10 players or less. This means more entities, and while they are spilt up through multiple servers, it still will completely change the scales when you take a giant lumbering ship of the line and stick it in the middle of the ocean.

Finally, this plugin(from what I've heard about it in the past from a couple of friends who'd owned privately-run servers) is very buggy when it comes to collisions and movements as well as:
  • Randomly disconnecting players for flying, most likely due to NoCheatPlus's security measure
  • The disappearance of all or most of the ship, probably due to plugin conflicts
  • My friend used a different portal plugin(not CreativeGates, I believe it was called AncientGates), and when a player teleported into a moving ship, he ended up getting stuck in the ship's walls or floor, leaving him to suffocate and die; on rare instances, if the portal is sticking out of the ship's wall, then he would pop right out of the ship and be left there stranded
  • Another one of my old pals in real life tested the cannons plugin with this plugin; the impact made from firing the cannons sometimes recoiled as you ran right into it, making cannon warfare between naval vessels overseas almost impossible unless the ship firing the blast was stably situated in the ocean
  • Last but not least, there was a glitch on my friend's server where one of his troublemakers would run a ship over players(as it went on shallowly flooded land), apparently dragging and suffocating the 15 or so players underneath.
All of these reasons and more are why I would not support this suggestion whatsoever.
 
I like the idea of needing to apply for one, but they should not be nearly so limited. Perhaps if you made the price considerably lower and allowed destruction of blocks, that way, no one can block off rivers or doors indefinitely and you'd also be forced to dock it in a friendly port, like a faction home or Regalia where only the owner can steer it or break it. Plus, you could finally add a whole piracy thing. A bunch of nubs could at least have a chance at hijacking some frigate (not that they'd make it past the guards of course!). On a side note, sabotaging a boat by punching holes in the hull could be fun -insert evil grin here-
 
Imboring56 said:
Incorrect. I believe, from what I've heard, that 70% of the lag that was caused(and still is today, if you look at the hopper and mine cart lag machines) are caused by moving blocks or entities. Not to mention that when you have a giant frigate or warship moving through the ocean at a very fast rate, it could not only drop the TPS, but also attack the clients of players, giving them extremely low FPS.

You also have to take into consideration that MassiveCraft is usually always above 100 players. When you tested it, it was probably a maximum of 10 players or less. This means more entities, and while they are spilt up through multiple servers, it still will completely change the scales when you take a giant lumbering ship of the line and stick it in the middle of the ocean.

Finally, this plugin(from what I've heard about it in the past from a couple of friends who'd owned privately-run servers) is very buggy when it comes to collisions and movements as well as:
  • Randomly disconnecting players for flying, most likely due to NoCheatPlus's security measure
  • The disappearance of all or most of the ship, probably due to plugin conflicts
  • My friend used a different portal plugin(not CreativeGates, I believe it was called AncientGates), and when a player teleported into a moving ship, he ended up getting stuck in the ship's walls or floor, leaving him to suffocate and die; on rare instances, if the portal is sticking out of the ship's wall, then he would pop right out of the ship and be left there stranded
  • Another one of my old pals in real life tested the cannons plugin with this plugin; the impact made from firing the cannons sometimes recoiled as you ran right into it, making cannon warfare between naval vessels overseas almost impossible unless the ship firing the blast was stably situated in the ocean
  • Last but not least, there was a glitch on my friend's server where one of his troublemakers would run a ship over players(as it went on shallowly flooded land), apparently dragging and suffocating the 15 or so players underneath.
All of these reasons and more are why I would not support this suggestion whatsoever.
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Ahem no I have been on another server always has above 300 on it, works causing no client lag and no tps lag. They have no cheat, works fine, this is 100% works with every plugin on massive craft that could possibly interfere with it. (Factions cannons, etc…) It works with creative gates. To the fourth one I call 100% BS as I have tested having a small naval battle. This last one is more of a… Yes…? Your point? I would say that is a you problem if you are run over by a ship and just stand and watch… This plugin is also very new, the 2.0 has just come out and it replaces the old glitchy version.
 
thor5648 said:
They could still join a crew of a ship, and it is their problem if they don't have enough. I am jealous I am not rich/ well known enough to go to be signed up to go to space when virgin releases their commercial space program, and so are lots of other people. This doesn't mean that they will stop sending people. Please justify rating my post disagree?
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Capitalism. Real life is different from video games. Price reduction over time. Your argument is invalid.
 
What is the name of this server you're bragging has no lag and the plugin?
 
Agreed. thor5648, my Skype is nikita.smyrnov. Feel free to send me the server IP/name through Skype so that I can test it out for myself.
 
And if the ships arent there we are stuck in Regalia? If the ships depart will I be alone on the deck? Will the server crash if 500 people use this pluggin? Will I get bored on the way there?
 
Well this seems good, but only for the super rich? You want to only help you and become even stronger???!!!
 
thor5648
Since you think none of us read your posts, send the servers or name them so we unenlightened can actually see your examples.
 
Thalan79,
After searching it up on Minecraft MP(not putting link due to it could be counting as advertising) with the plugin 'ships', I found 13 registered servers, most of them only having a maximum of 50 to 75 players during peak hours.

I highly doubt you tested this with 400 players, not to mention that I went on a 50+ player server with it and asked if it was stable - they said they were considering stopping its use due to its glitches after 1.7. And an admin said that.

Thus, I have some valid, credible reasoning to believe thor5648's argument is completely invalid.
 
I agree, I tested it too on my private server, I saw that I had some glitches and that it DID make it laggy (on a 1 player server)
 
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Maybe if you want strong evidence that shows this, take a video or a gallery of screenshots with you and friends using this? Go on that server with 400+ players and ask around, not to mention give us a test?

Otherwise I and others will be completely skeptical of this idea considering how in the past, it was always made out to be glitchy and cause a ton of lag.
 
I see many problems with this plugin. Although you say those 400+ servers run without lag, they also don't run the same plugins. I remember that whenever something huge is added to Regalia, the server lags briefly, now imagine removing, then adding tons of blocks over and over again. Get what the problem is now? You say it causes no client lag either, that being a main point of this thread apparently, but I can't enter the market without my computer blowing steam out it metaphorical ears. You ran your server, and played, on a macbook air (I think thats what you said), but I run on a toshiba notebook half the time, it is a proven minecraft fact that entities and moving blocks create tps and fps drops. I feel like some of your answers aren't real answers, but just restatements of previous posts. Please tag me if you have proof against what I said.
 
Make this so you can only have a legit roleplay reason for wanting a ship, such as pirates, and then post a picture of your ship, and get the staff to review it. And then make it so it's only made functional by the staff. Have it to be sort of like the roleplay character applications.
 
Imboring56 said:
  • Last but not least, there was a glitch on my friend's server where one of his troublemakers would run a ship over players(as it went on shallowly flooded land), apparently dragging and suffocating the 15 or so players underneath.
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Is it just me that thinks this sounds like hell fun?
 
I think this is a wonderfull idea, however it may cause some lag... it will cause more RP outside of regalia as well.
 
Admittedly I do believe lag would be a major concern for me, Although I've always wanted to ride around a warship smashing things, Raiding with said ships would be amazing. >:3
 
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