Re: Massivecraft Pvp - What Is Fun, What Is Not, And What Should Change?

[Unluvable]

Posting here because the stickied thread kinda devolved into a mess of senseless bickering (and not wanting to risk having my long ass post not be seen)...
MonMarty

I think in regards to PvP, there are two things that we need to focus on. These two things are: balance and fun.

As of right now, I feel that MassiveCraft PvP does indeed suffer a bit from unbalance, but it can be solved fairly easily. Though I will expound on the "fun" aspect later, I feel some "fun" will definitely be gained just by merely balancing PvP. This can be fixed by:

- Nerf axes! This is perhaps the most important. This is one of the reasons why fights are so fast! No other McMMO skill offers the same level of benefits utility wise than axes. Cap the armor breaking skill at 750 or 1000, so that there is time in a fight to use some strategy instead of the optimal strategy being "charge blindly at your enemy screaming like a psycho while spam clicking".

Moreover, disable Skull Splitter or nerf the radius severely! This mechanic single handedly destroys any strategic element or slim chance that a group of poor farmers and villagers have against the single, lone warlord with 1500 axes who has come to loot their tiny faction. Strength in numbers and strategic cooperation is an element that makes any multiplayer game FUN, both in roleplay and PvP. Skull Splitter ruins this completely by making the ridiculously high level of ONE skill of ONE person stronger than the combined strategic efforts of multiple people. Give the potato farmer a fighting chance!

- GETTING RID OF MASSIVE ARMOR. Massive armor has done nothing but to widen the already gaping, loosey goosey gap between premiums and non-premiums (I say this as a premium with a couple sets of Massive armor). It has done nothing really to enhance PvP between premiums either, since most "serious" PvPers have it, there is no difference. If you really want to kill two birds with one stone by changing massive armor, you can change it to ~iron~. Helps give non-prems a little bite to fight back with, but still keeps the diamond exclusive to prems (which I understand to be one of the primary incentives why people donate). Moreover, Massive armor will remain a strong incentive to vote since so many people on this server are non-prems.

- Tweak the damage bonuses severely. PvP is about fighting PLAYERS! Bonuses gained from fighting dumb monsters that predictably move towards you should not outpace the experience gained from using strategy, tactics, and cooperation against semi-intelligent, real players. McMMO adds great depth to combat and other skills and should compliment PvP, but it should NOT define PvP. (Perhaps have all combat skills cap at 1000, while uniformly distributing small % bonuses throughout that spectrum?) Let skill, strategy, cooperation, and basic game mechanics define PvP.

- Right now, people with a low Unarmed level are scared shitless to stand up to the super high level mcmmo people who have a 100% chance to resist disarm. Make disarm merely prevent use of a weapon for 3 seconds or whatever, not entirely drop or have the weapon stolen. It's just too much, lol.

Now, for the FUN aspect of PvP. By improving the "fun" of PvP, I mean to bridge and make more subtle the gap between PvP and RP. I know, MonMarty, that you have made a thread on the traits system, which I think is just excellent, and is a big step in the right direction in adding "RP" elements into PvP.

- I'm not going to lie, it is a bit boring to see everyone don diamond armor on a battle field. Others have alluded to having a heavy/medium/light armor system, which I find interesting. Diamond armor should still be the best (because we need the donations), but just not by the crushing margin that exists now. Diamond could have a small speed debuff/limited sprinting/increased hunger. Iron could stay the same as a nice middle ground. Chainmail can offer defense bonuses against swords and bows/arrows. Leather can perhaps provide a speed bonus (You run faster because you feel sexy and more confident!) I'm not sure how this would be coded, but to receive the benefits, you need to be wearing all respective pieces of that armor (i.e. all chain to get the chain bonus). You only need to wear one piece (i.e. only one piece of diamond armor) to receive that disadvantage (i.e. speed buff), however.

- A class system could be interesting, but it would take much time and effort to implement I feel. I think the traits system more or less integrates this idea already, with specialties in some weapons, and weakness in others (I am working with limited information).

- This point will expound upon Grailen's idea of an alternative "battleground" world. This would be a warfare styled map which could have various objectives (i.e. maintain control of the center of the map for X minutes, get X kills, whichever team has a "last man standing", whichever team starves first & no food on the map lol). The difference, though, with his idea is that there will be NO transfer of material items between this battleground map and the medieval world. Both factions must agree to enter this battleground world. Moreover, each team starts with the same amount of resources, same type of armor (i.e. all leather armor, stone weapons, bows, super low tech), etc. (perhaps allow even non-prems use of cannons in the battleground map?), but the McMMO abilities still hold, so there will still be some advantages/differences between teams. The winning team will get a "head" or "flag" item that they get for bragging rights and hanging on a wall. Something like this, it will be for roleplay. Also, optionally each side can set something that they are willing to give to the opposing side and/or make demands to the loser. Materials, land, or even have the faction leader lick the bottom of the other faction leader's boots in front of the public of Regalia! This can be enforced by staff perhaps in writing via book and quill or on forums.

I am optimistic in regards to the state of PvP and RP on massivecraft. Much has been improved in roleplay, and though I feel PvP has fallen behind a bit, it is not that bad, and can be fixed fairly easily with the aforementioned changes that I have stated above. In its current state, PvP seems to be a recreational luxury limited to few people, thus widening the gap between PvP and RP. With these changes, I feel we can encourage everyone, including RPers and new players, to integrate PvP into their RP more easily (defend the granaries and livestock!). Thank you all of MassiveCraft staff for working so hard and creating such a wonderful server. Hopefully with what I wrote, I have helped in at least providing a spark in your brainstorming for making massive PvP more fun.

- unluv xoxo

 

[Xskill]

Rather unnecessary to have a separate thread just for the sake of attention...

 

[Unluvable]

Rather unnecessary to have a separate thread just for the sake of attention...

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I will check in the morning, if it is such a problem, I will request this thread to be deleted and have it posted in the other thread. It wasn't so much for the sake of attention, but rather to have my post (which I put a fair amount of effort putting together) out there as my own suggestion to a general problem. I apologize for the lack of forum etiquette, this is my first actual post on the general forums here.

 

[Skull_man]

It IS rather unnecessary to have it here, but good points.

 

[Ridgee]

I agree, but in my opinion, I would love to completely remove mcmmo, but that just woudn't be fair on the pvper's.

 

[funkyadhesive]

Definitely agree about the removal of skull splitter.

 

[Unluvable]

I agree, but in my opinion, I would love to completely remove mcmmo, but that just woudn't be fair on the pvper's.

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Unfair to the PvPers? I am presuming you mean people who have spent a very large amount of time leveling their McMMO combat skills. I am wondering... is it possible for people's McMMO levels to be transferred into the equivalent of what would be used as "levels" in the new system that replaces McMMO? Is this possible?

When people say, "Begone with McMMO!" I think people truly underestimate how much we depend on McMMO resource wise. All of these magnificent builds that are made would take 10x longer to harvest the respective materials for (mining). All of the natural ore would be depleted much, much more quickly, given there are no multiplicative bonuses from mining or smelting. Repairing would be a total b*tch... If McMMO were to be removed, we would absolutely need some form of ALTERNATIVE that provides much of the same bonuses. How resource and time intensive (and the continuous need to bug fix) this endeavor will be is another thread, but perhaps not at all "unachievable" as what some people seem to be making it.

 

[Lady Julianne]

Definitely a better idea to tweak mcMMO than to remove it completely.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

Definitely a better idea to tweak mcMMO than to remove it completely.

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The only issue with this is that no matter how you "tweak" it, it would still give a significant advantage to one skill over another... You fix the Axes issue, people will complain (and I've already seen it beginning) that the disarm ability is OP.... Or even the counter-attack skill from swords. People won't stop complaining about additional attacks and benefits no matter how much tweaking you do to it. It's better to remove the root of the problem, than listen to the other problems that will show up along the way. That being said, if you cannot replace it with SOMETHING (for example, the Trait system that's being developed) then it will be meaningless to remove MCMMO as is. However, tweaking it won't help either, since people will STILL complain about the other aspects... By the way, did you know that the Taming skill, when leveled, gives you a super powerful dog army? Yet, instead of looking into the skills, people say "Oh, this one skill is way too OP" I'll admit, axes are a bit strong with their neverending damage cap, but if you create a dog army which is healed by damaging splash potions, then in my opinion, you found a solution to the axes issue.

 

[Unluvable]

The only issue with this is that no matter how you "tweak" it, it would still give a significant advantage to one skill over another... You fix the Axes issue, people will complain (and I've already seen it beginning) that the disarm ability is OP.... Or even the counter-attack skill from swords. People won't stop complaining about additional attacks and benefits no matter how much tweaking you do to it. It's better to remove the root of the problem, than listen to the other problems that will show up along the way. That being said, if you cannot replace it with SOMETHING (for example, the Trait system that's being developed) then it will be meaningless to remove MCMMO as is. However, tweaking it won't help either, since people will STILL complain about the other aspects... By the way, did you know that the Taming skill, when leveled, gives you a super powerful dog army? Yet, instead of looking into the skills, people say "Oh, this one skill is way too OP" I'll admit, axes are a bit strong with their neverending damage cap, but if you create a dog army which is healed by damaging splash potions, then in my opinion, you found a solution to the axes issue.

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Thank you for taking your time to voice and express your opinion, but I have to disagree with this. Your reasoning makes no sense. You are basically making the argument that there in no point in making the effort to tweak McMMO because people will always complain. The problem here is that, though McMMO does have custom configurations here on MassiveCraft, I don't really think many tweaks have been made in regards to PvP (berserk was disabled, but that was because a dupe bug). You are making generalizations and assumptions based on things that haven't happened yet. Moreover, you go on making a red herring argument about how taming is "way too OP" and is the answer to the axes skill being overpowered against multiple, lower leveled players? C'mon man, that just makes no sense at all.

My main point is that with the current state of PvP, though it is unbalanced, the fix is quite simple actually, and would be the preferred choice of the many loyal MassiveCraft players who enjoy this server for PvP and McMMO. These tweaks will also, I believe, make PvP more fun and roleplay-sensible (I don't care how "skilled" you are with an axe, a large of group of fighters that have a good ambush plan and "average" skills should have a VERY good chance of taking you out).

 

[Lady Julianne]

The only issue with this is that no matter how you "tweak" it, it would still give a significant advantage to one skill over another... You fix the Axes issue, people will complain (and I've already seen it beginning) that the disarm ability is OP.... Or even the counter-attack skill from swords. People won't stop complaining about additional attacks and benefits no matter how much tweaking you do to it. It's better to remove the root of the problem, than listen to the other problems that will show up along the way. That being said, if you cannot replace it with SOMETHING (for example, the Trait system that's being developed) then it will be meaningless to remove MCMMO as is. However, tweaking it won't help either, since people will STILL complain about the other aspects... By the way, did you know that the Taming skill, when leveled, gives you a super powerful dog army? Yet, instead of looking into the skills, people say "Oh, this one skill is way too OP" I'll admit, axes are a bit strong with their neverending damage cap, but if you create a dog army which is healed by damaging splash potions, then in my opinion, you found a solution to the axes issue.

Click to shrink...

Everything you said may be true, but you didn't take into account the non combat aspects of mcMMO that Unluvable had just mentioned prior to my post. THAT is why it shouldn't be removed entirely. IF the combat aspect of mcMMO needs to go, fine, take it out. But don't remove mcMMO. That's called tweaking mcMMO (in an extreme manner, yes)

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

Everything you said may be true, but you didn't take into account the non combat aspects of mcMMO that Unluvable had just mentioned prior to my post. THAT is why it shouldn't be removed entirely. IF the combat aspect of mcMMO needs to go, fine, take it out. But don't remove mcMMO. That's called tweaking mcMMO (in an extreme manner, yes)

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This, I can agree with to a point. The combat perspective of MCMMO seems to be the major issue with the arguments between players, however, in time another issue will need to be addressed. That issue comes from some of the NON-PVP abilities. Such as GigaDrill and SuperBreaker. With the ever-growing playerbase, the amount of available resources will be mined clean at an alarming rate. Already I've begun to notice this with New Ceardia, the world is already claimed over and it is likely becoming close to being mined clean. That being said, I fear that soon players will be calling for a nerf to the amount of time GigaDrill and SuperBreaker can be active. Then they will claim it's not enough and call for more nerfing. I am making an educated prediction based on server size and player base here, and I understand that my prediction MAY be wrong, but wouldn't it make sense to avoid other potentially annoying conflicts before they even arise? Likewise, removal of MCMMO will do WONDERS for player economy As it stands, enchanted books are a dime a dozen, this is because, in part, the usefulness of many of the books are unneeded due to the MCMMO perks gained by mining and digging. If you'd like, I will do what I did with my previous post (Not the one you commented on, but the one before) and concise all of my arguments into a single thought. I have an issue where, when I type, I think of more and more potential issues that could arise from a given topic, then afterwards, I think of the solution. So I'm sorry if it seems like I'm just trying to pile more and more problems, I'm just stating ones that I hadn't thought of yet.

Edit: When I mentioned the "other post" I was mentioning MonMarty's official post about PVP, where I had done the same thing that I just did, typing out a long, complicated explanation and then went back and condensed it to only the main topics as well as added in a few points that I had thought of after I had made the original post.

 

[Lady Julianne]

I do the same thing so don't worry xD I understand.

I don't think New Ceardia is claimed over yet, there's tons of empty places. It's just stupidly hilly and no one wants to claim it. (Bad move on the world creator's part, but WAY too late for that, so long as it doesn't happen again.)
As for mined out, considering how many mountains and hills there are, I also highly doubt that. MAYBE that's why the creator made it so hilly, because there'd be so much left there to mine. Besides, new worlds are always coming out, and this would be an issue without mcMMO, digging quicker for a few seconds really isn't a big deal. Especially since enchanting picks will easily get the same general effect. Efficiency is a very common enchant. And the increased drop amounts actually help stop worlds from being mined out, as Unluved mentioned.
I guess you see the low value of enchant books as a problem where I see it as a good thing. Or at least an unimportant thing. I love not having to deal with enchants unless I want a specific one, the randomization of it all is a huge pain in my side. I don't want to have to grind xp for hours just to try and get the enchant I want, and repeat until I do. Nor do I want to have to pay out my ears to buy the rare book that actually has the enchant I want.

Besides all this, the concept of mcMMO cannot be lost. The ability to get better at doing something from doing it is a key aspect of gaming, and actually of life. But vanilla MC has no way of doing that. Thus a skill increasing in some way really ought to stay. Slow it down, cap it, what ever, but don't remove it. mcMMO is my entire reason for not dreading the need to mine or gather wood. It gives me something to look forward to. And I can only imagine I'm not the only one.

 

[Rooseus]

Just remove the god damn Mcmmo and replace it with a trait system, it might fit on other servers but not here on massive.

 

[Watchdogeditor]

There's something in this mess I love the sound of: Armor being a burden to wear, when it's not needed in combat. By this, I mean a slowness debuff or something of the like. Those who wear their shiny blue gear, whether they be eating breakfast, out for a night in Regalia, or basically any situation that isn't an imminent threat (such as Regalia) seriously annoy me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. After all, realistically, who would wear their armor for fun?

Maybe some super strict Paladin. Maybe.

To add to the fun, this would also make ambushes and assassinations easier, because players would have all the more reason to take off their armor when the protection it gives isn't actively needed...

 

[Togal]

There's something in this mess I love the sound of: Armor being a burden to wear, when it's not needed in combat. By this, I mean a slowness debuff or something of the like. Those who wear their shiny blue gear, whether they be eating breakfast, out for a night in Regalia, or basically any situation that isn't an imminent threat (such as Regalia) seriously annoy me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. After all, realistically, who would wear their armor for fun?

Maybe some super strict Paladin. Maybe.

To add to the fun, this would also make ambushes and assassinations easier, because players would have all the more reason to take off their armor when the protection it gives isn't actively needed...

Click to shrink...

situation solved with a speed potion.

 

[Skull_man]

situation solved with a speed potion.

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The economy of speed potions would go dramatically up then, and then they would need sugar which comes from sugarcane and then farmers could sell so much sugar to people to make the potions or make them themselves.

 

[Togal]

The economy of speed potions would go dramatically up then, and then they would need sugar which comes from sugarcane and then farmers could sell so much sugar to people to make the potions or make them themselves.

Click to shrink...

or you could just plant a bunch of sugar cane and the economy will still remain the same -,-

 

[Skull_man]

or you could just plant a bunch of sugar cane and the economy will still remain the same -,-

Click to shrink...

STOP RUINING MY FUN!

 

[Blade4374]

While I don't think we should get rid of MCMMO as a whole, I think we should either COMPLETELY Nerf all combat skills, or remove them, I totaly agree with this post, it shouldn't be about who hit x many monsters in a dark room.. It should be about tactics.

 

[Ridgee]

Unfair to the PvPers? I am presuming you mean people who have spent a very large amount of time leveling their McMMO combat skills. I am wondering... is it possible for people's McMMO levels to be transferred into the equivalent of what would be used as "levels" in the new system that replaces McMMO? Is this possible?

When people say, "Begone with McMMO!" I think people truly underestimate how much we depend on McMMO resource wise. All of these magnificent builds that are made would take 10x longer to harvest the respective materials for (mining). All of the natural ore would be depleted much, much more quickly, given there are no multiplicative bonuses from mining or smelting. Repairing would be a total b*tch... If McMMO were to be removed, we would absolutely need some form of ALTERNATIVE that provides much of the same bonuses. How resource and time intensive (and the continuous need to bug fix) this endeavor will be is another thread, but perhaps not at all "unachievable" as what some people seem to be making it.

Click to shrink...

Sorry I forgot to mention, I only ment the pvp McMMO

 

[patrickdxs]

It only saddens me that McMMO has remained, we do not WANT or NEED that plugin and can be removed without affecting the main point of the server at all. People have strayed from the general idea, this is a ROLE-PLAY server with pvp ASPECTS. That means McMMO which has caused game-breaking bugs should not remain and continued to be worked around when it only causes problems and plugin headaches.

It is broken, It is a hassle to work with, and people no longer want it. Make the trait system become the pvp plugin and work off of that PLEASE.

 

[funkyadhesive]

we do not WANT that plugin

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Speak for yourself.

 

[Jett57]

Definitely agree about the removal of skull splitter.

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Skull Split is perfectly fine with Mcmmo not glitched. It's extremely op if your dumb and have 5 guys charging someone while they have a split up.

 

[funkyadhesive]

Skull Split is perfectly fine with Mcmmo not glitched. It's extremely op if your dumb and have 5 guys charging someone while they have a split up.

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I agree, it's perfectly avoidable if you're smart. But I feel it's both unrealistic and unnecessary. While it's not a huge issue, and sure makes my life easier, skull split is not a feature I'm a fan of.

 

[Jlalu]

Definitely agree about the removal of skull splitter.

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Aw, but do you not love the crunch of many foes being felled at once,

 

[Jett57]

I agree, it's perfectly avoidable if you're smart. But I feel it's both unrealistic and unnecessary. While it's not a huge issue, and sure makes my life easier, skull split is not a feature I'm a fan of.

Click to shrink...

Yea and the entire mcmmo system is unrealistic and without skull split axes would be pretty much useless now. And yes people are gonna say "dood armurz samsh guu" but axes hardly does anything to armor now that god apples are gone. This another reason PvP is so broken now, people can just fix their armor in a minute with fishing, then while fighting someone the armor never snaps unless your chugging health pots and Demi-god apples, and even then you'll probably die before your armor snaps.

 

[Jlalu]

The only issue with this is that no matter how you "tweak" it, it would still give a significant advantage to one skill over another... You fix the Axes issue, people will complain (and I've already seen it beginning) that the disarm ability is OP.... Or even the counter-attack skill from swords. People won't stop complaining about additional attacks and benefits no matter how much tweaking you do to it. It's better to remove the root of the problem, than listen to the other problems that will show up along the way. That being said, if you cannot replace it with SOMETHING (for example, the Trait system that's being developed) then it will be meaningless to remove MCMMO as is. However, tweaking it won't help either, since people will STILL complain about the other aspects... By the way, did you know that the Taming skill, when leveled, gives you a super powerful dog army? Yet, instead of looking into the skills, people say "Oh, this one skill is way too OP" I'll admit, axes are a bit strong with their neverending damage cap, but if you create a dog army which is healed by damaging splash potions, then in my opinion, you found a solution to the axes issue.

Click to shrink...

There is a damage cap on axes; just not on the damage that is done to the armor.

 

[Sirvan]

I like mcmmo like it is but i agree on the armor dmg! If you want to get strong then take time to train in a darkroom

 

[Lady Julianne]

I have a totally crazy suggestion that would probably upset a lot of people (though not more than removing mcmmo anyway) and cause chaos, but:
Reset combat skills in mcmmo, and make ONLY PvP grant xp for it. That way you only get better at PvP, by actually doing PvP.

 

[Watchdogeditor]

I have a totally crazy suggestion that would probably upset a lot of people (though not more than removing mcmmo anyway) and cause chaos, but:
Reset combat skills in mcmmo, and make ONLY PvP grant xp for it. That way you only get better at PvP, by actually doing PvP.

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I actually agree to a ridiculous point with this. Now, if only there was classes so you couldn't be good at EVERYTHING...

 

[Unluvable]

I have a totally crazy suggestion that would probably upset a lot of people (though not more than removing mcmmo anyway) and cause chaos, but:
Reset combat skills in mcmmo, and make ONLY PvP grant xp for it. That way you only get better at PvP, by actually doing PvP.

Click to shrink...

At face, it seems like an interesting, and possible, solution. But knowing how cutthroat, psycho, and out of whack the PvP McMMO addicts are on this server, I can see this being really bad in reality. People would kill others purely for grinding combat McMMO, hunting poor lowbies, and starting even more drama-fueled wars with crappy RP reasons. And there are certainly the type of people who would try to make a dirt copper by charging people to just let them whack at them while they AFK (in fact, I think this is the PRIMARY reason why the default amount of McMMO XP granted by hitting other players is so low in the first place...). Moreover, this solution would more or less REQUIRE that non-prems would have access to diamond armor, just to even stand a chance.

This would be a fantastic solution if PvP rules were made much stricter, but the point is to make PvP fun and more open and accessible. I was initially very excited about your idea, but then I remembered how crazy those people at the McTOP can be... they would actually now have an incentive to come kill us poor lowbie mortals... D;

 

[Unluvable]

Just remove the god damn Mcmmo and replace it with a trait system, it might fit on other servers but not here on massive.

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It is a very interesting thought, though crude. Perhaps you could develop your idea, instead of being an angry little orc? ;p I do recall that the intention of the traits system was to replace the ~races~ plugin (i.e. the axe bonus conferred by being a dwarf). Unless the traits system were to add bonuses and especially ~abilities~ similar to or better/more sensible than the ones in McMMO, that is a very poor suggestion.

edit: I apologize for the double-post, I'll just edit the former post next time.

 

[Skull_man]

I have a totally crazy suggestion that would probably upset a lot of people (though not more than removing mcmmo anyway) and cause chaos, but:
Reset combat skills in mcmmo, and make ONLY PvP grant xp for it. That way you only get better at PvP, by actually doing PvP.

Click to shrink...

What of those who aren't good enough or have massive lag issues? What of those who do not have the gear or money to get gear? What if you don't want to PvP, just be able to fend off mobs in the night. What of those people? You have to have an idea that with benefit the many at the cost of a few, not the other way around.

 

[Rooseus]

It is a very interesting thought, though crude. Perhaps you could develop your idea, instead of being an angry little orc? ;p I do recall that the intention of the traits system was to replace the ~races~ plugin (i.e. the axe bonus conferred by being a dwarf). Unless the traits system were to add bonuses and especially ~abilities~ similar to or better/more sensible than the ones in McMMO, that is a very poor suggestion.

edit: I apologize for the double-post, I'll just edit the former post next time.

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The most important and biggest problem at the moment are the god armors. They simply make new player totally unable to pvp in any wars. I suppose there a several ways to solve this problem but we all know that the best and easiest way to solve it is to make premiums able to drop everything including armor. This way people won't wear god armor when fighting since it would simply be to risky. I know you think this will decrease the amount of premiums we have but at the same time what do you think all the new players think of the server when only some "speciall" players are able to pvp?

This thread also includes a lot of discussion about the mcmmo plugin. Well, mcmmo certainly doesent fit on this server. I think a better plugin should be coded with some rp aspects. For example, maybe you could master one artisan jobb as blacksmith, lumberjack or even mason? Every member would only be able to choose one profession, this would also support the trading on the server since some players would more easily gather one type of supply while others can gather another sort? What I'm saying is, anybody shouldn't be able to max all the skills and be a pro on everything since a lifetime ain't enought for that, there should be a limit. The same thing with the weapond skills, everybody can't be a master with all types of weaponds.

Next pvp problem are faction wars, we all know that a surrender option is required to declare war on massivecraft which I think is a great aspect of the game. The problem is, it's really rare that a faction actually surrender. I think a plugin should be inplemented that forces one of the factions to surrender after a numbers of kills or something, the amount of kills you need should be depended on the size of the faction so if its big you would need plenty of kills. I really think this is needed, it would solve all the pointless and endless wars.

 

[Unluvable]

Rooseus:

1) I agree with you on your point if what you are referring to is "Massive Armor". If you are referring to just regular unb III, prot IV armor, then I think you still make an interesting point. However, I don't believe that there being a penalty of dropping armor isn't enough to deter the use of it. Some people, perhaps, but then you go on to saying ..."oh, I know this will decrease the amount of premiums." Are you serious, man? You need to understand this reality: premiums make this server possible. More to the point, your "solution" of premiums dropping armor isn't much of a solution if the non-prems don't even have a chance of taking them down to begin with. I believe my proposal of iron Massive Armor is more reasonable -- it actually attacks the problem at its source, which is to close the equipment gap between non-prems and prems, while still maintaining the unique feature of diamond armor to premiums.

2) With your point regarding the McMMO plug in, I completely disagree. There is someting we need to take into consideration: balancing what the server staff perceive to what the server -should- be VS. what the MassiveCraft players want. There needs to be a balance, and your proposal is much, much too extreme. It completely isolates an incredibly large amount of players who enjoy the McMMO plug in.

You also say, "The McMMO plug in doesn't fit". What are you reasons? You give none. You simply state what YOU alone want, and what you think is best for a fraction of the MassiveCraft player base. The solution I propose, however, is a middle ground between the status quo and a new plug in altogether: simply tweaking and customizing McMMO further to improve PvP and make it more fun.

I do consider the whole skills specializations a definite possibility, however. It leads to a whole new dimension of PvP and encourages cooperation between players... an effective army will have to mix and match different classes in order to outmatch another unique army. It may do well against one specific army, but not so against a different combination. And I *think* this is definitely achievable in McMMO, if not already suggested on the McMMO main site.

3) No comment. I think the whole surrendering issue is more of a roleplay etiquette/politics issue, rather than direct PvP combat issue to be honest.

 

[Togal]

I have a totally crazy suggestion that would probably upset a lot of people (though not more than removing mcmmo anyway) and cause chaos, but:
Reset combat skills in mcmmo, and make ONLY PvP grant xp for it. That way you only get better at PvP, by actually doing PvP.

Click to shrink...

that may sound good but, if that happens stronger factions will continually grind on their alt account or just simply raid smaller weaker factions till they leave the server just for the experience.

 

[Togal]

It only saddens me that McMMO has remained, we do not WANT or NEED that plugin and can be removed without affecting the main point of the server at all. People have strayed from the general idea, this is a ROLE-PLAY server with pvp ASPECTS. That means McMMO which has caused game-breaking bugs should not remain and continued to be worked around when it only causes problems and plugin headaches.

It is broken, It is a hassle to work with, and people no longer want it. Make the trait system become the pvp plugin and work off of that PLEASE.

Click to shrink...

this may be a role play server but please use your brain, the reason why we buy premium is for its amazing abilities that enhance McMMO as well as pvp. remove it at once then the server will experience a rapid drop in donations. may i ask are you even a donator to the server??? we pvpers fuel this server not you.

 

[Lady Julianne]

What of those who aren't good enough or have massive lag issues? What of those who do not have the gear or money to get gear? What if you don't want to PvP, just be able to fend off mobs in the night. What of those people? You have to have an idea that with benefit the many at the cost of a few, not the other way around.

Click to shrink...

My reply actually is meant for several people, but your most made me think the most, so I'm quoting it. You make a good point, though my initial reaction to it was something to the effect of "If you need mcMMO to to fend off mobs at night you're doing something terribly wrong, even on hard difficulty." Because unless I do something really dumb I rarely have an issue with this. But then I remembered Massive's odd zombies that double upon death, and how much more threatening skeletons seem to be on mcMMO servers (Which may be an illusion, Idk). But then as you said lag could and does mess with PvE significantly, I just forgot about it since the sharding happened.

SO

What if, splitting combat skills between PvP and PvE? Getting better at fending off a zombie is very very different from fending off a player, but you should still get better at it from doing it (to use my earlier reasoning for why mcMMO should stay). For instance, again unless I'm seriously stupid at the time, I could fend off zombies for hours. But I was in my first PvP fight for months just last night as got my rear handed to me (Which is going to lead to another, totally different suggestion in a little bit.)

Now, to cover the "But then mcTOPS would rape and pillage noobs instead of mobs. This suggestion could work either with the PvP/PvE only setup I've suggested above, OR with the existing and in place style of mcMMO. Have earned xp scale with the combat powerlevel of what you're attacking. With no minimum (meaning you will earn nothing for defeating someone nowhere near your level. That way, at low levels, mobs and noobs will both provide ample xp for your skills. But the better you get, the more you'll have to search for people near your level if you want any chance of improving. This make perfect realism sense as at some point the practice pell you've been beating on will not give you any more insight on how to attack. So you move on to a training partner. At some point there will be nothing more you can learn from practicing movements. So you move on to real combat, but at some point you'll learn nothing more from someone if they haven't improved with you. That's how you'd get combat masters roaming the lands looking for a worthy challenge. The weak beneath them had become worthless. mcMMO should reflect that.

And note, every mcMMO suggestion I make I do so assuming it would still work with capping different skills (I'm partial to the more fluid suggestion in the other thread of reaching a limit in one will then cap the others, but set classes will work just as well.) I do fully endorse and agree with that suggestion.

Finally, my new suggestion after the aforementioned bout of PvP last night. Color coded over head names. Let me tell you, for anyone that hasn't experienced this, figuring out which guy to shoot and which guy to not shoot, when both guys are wearing the same armor using the same weapon, and are both far enough away that their names are not legible, basically makes you useless as an archer. But if one of those names were green, meaning friendly, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.
Now I realize that isn't necessarily realistic, but normal armies have uniforms or crests or whatnot that would do the same thing.

 

[Skull_man]

Lady Julianne good points, however premiums have a green name.