Re: Massivecraft Pvp - What Is Fun, What Is Not, And What Should Change?

[Lady Julianne]

this may be a role play server but please use your brain, the reason why we buy premium is for its amazing abilities that enhance McMMO as well as pvp. remove it at once then the server will experience a rapid drop in donations. may i ask are you even a donator to the server??? we pvpers fuel this server not you.

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This brings up a point about donations, which really doesn't belong here, but oh well.

A: I will forever consider them membership payments regardless of the fact that staff will never admit it. Because they are.
B: It makes ME sad that an RP server is fueled by PvP players. Why are donation perks so heavily PvP orientated? They should find a way to make RPers more interested in buying them so PvPers can stop feeling as entitled to special treatment as they are.
Perhaps give premiums access to special building blocks? (Like, the ones only mods can get)

 

[Lady Julianne]

Lady Julianne good points, however premiums have a green name.

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Oh yea that's right, ok... well, the concept is the same xD Maybe have a color coded star in their name?

 

[Rooseus]

Rooseus:

1) I agree with you on your point if what you are referring to is "Massive Armor". If you are referring to just regular unb III, prot IV armor, then I think you still make an interesting point. However, I don't believe that there being a penalty of dropping armor isn't enough to deter the use of it. Some people, perhaps, but then you go on to saying ..."oh, I know this will decrease the amount of premiums." Are you serious, man? You need to understand this reality: premiums make this server possible. More to the point, your "solution" of premiums dropping armor isn't much of a solution if the non-prems don't even have a chance of taking them down to begin with. I believe my proposal of iron Massive Armor is more reasonable -- it actually attacks the problem at its source, which is to close the equipment gap between non-prems and prems, while still maintaining the unique feature of diamond armor to premiums.

2) With your point regarding the McMMO plug in, I completely disagree. There is someting we need to take into consideration: balancing what the server staff perceive to what the server -should- be VS. what the MassiveCraft players want. There needs to be a balance, and your proposal is much, much too extreme. It completely isolates an incredibly large amount of players who enjoy the McMMO plug in.

You also say, "The McMMO plug in doesn't fit". What are you reasons? You give none. You simply state what YOU alone want, and what you think is best for a fraction of the MassiveCraft player base. The solution I propose, however, is a middle ground between the status quo and a new plug in altogether: simply tweaking and customizing McMMO further to improve PvP and make it more fun.

I do consider the whole skills specializations a definite possibility, however. It leads to a whole new dimension of PvP and encourages cooperation between players... an effective army will have to mix and match different classes in order to outmatch another unique army. It may do well against one specific army, but not so against a different combination. And I *think* this is definitely achievable in McMMO, if not already suggested on the McMMO main site.

3) No comment. I think the whole surrendering issue is more of a roleplay etiquette/politics issue, rather than direct PvP combat issue to be honest.

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Mcmmo doesen't fit on this server simply becouse a man/female can't be specialized at every singe skill during a lifetime. I personally don't think mcmmo is unbalanced at all. What really destroys the massivecraft pvp are the god armor/massive armor not mcmmo.

Iron Massive Armor woulden't solve a shit since non premiums would still be able to drop it meaning no on would really wear it, and if they did they would loose it after 3 hits with an axe. The real only way to solve massivecraft pvp is to remove the stupid abillity to keep armor on death.

Sure that might be the case of the surrender issue, but it's an issue alright and should be solved somehow.

 

[Mecharic]

Lady Julianne - I've spoken with MonMarty about this over TS, from what he said a) The server needs the money, sad or not, and b) they are working on making it more roleplay then pvp with the prem perks (like the planned custom items perk). That said, they would lose the majority of their premiums if they took away pvp perks.

 

[Lady Julianne]

Lady Julianne - I've spoken with MonMarty about this over TS, from what he said a) The server needs the money, sad or not, and b) they are working on making it more roleplay then pvp with the prem perks (like the planned custom items perk). That said, they would lose the majority of their premiums if they took away pvp perks.

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Oh I'm sure they would, which is why I've been trying to think of suggestions that don't relate to removing any. The problem is some issues directly stem from those perks and thus they'll forever be issues. So instead we have to try and find ways to minimize the damage they do to the system.
Meanwhile I was just saying we should add more RP ones, not trade out PvP for RP, if that's what anyone thought I meant. And I didn't know custom items was being planned, do you have a link handy of that? Or was it just mentioned in passing?

 

[Mecharic]

Oh I'm sure they would, which is why I've been trying to think of suggestions that don't relate to removing any. The problem is some issues directly stem from those perks and thus they'll forever be issues. So instead we have to try and find ways to minimize the damage they do to the system.
Meanwhile I was just saying we should add more RP ones, not trade out PvP for RP, if that's what anyone thought I meant. And I didn't know custom items was being planned, do you have a link handy of that? Or was it just mentioned in passing?

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Mentioned in passing, I think it was in the voting rewards suggestion thread? Regardless it's on their list I'm sure of that.

Also, I don't disagree with what you said about adding more RP bonuses to Premium - I for one REALLY want to be able to wear a straw hat or smoke an actual pipe that generates a torch-sized smoke from it...

 

[Unluvable]

Lady Julianne - I've spoken with MonMarty about this over TS, from what he said a) The server needs the money, sad or not, and b) they are working on making it more roleplay then pvp with the prem perks (like the planned custom items perk). That said, they would lose the majority of their premiums if they took away pvp perks.

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Er, I feel that you are referring to the whole prem perks, Mech, but just to be sure, did you get any word from him in regards to the McMMO vs. new plug in thingy? I'd ask him myself in TS, but the room he is in is password protected (justifiably so).

 

[Lady Julianne]

I have been wondering what his opinion on that whole thread has been for quite some time...

 

[Arvallon]

Guys do not forget that mcmmo is not only based around pvp. Id hate too loose my bonus with mining, excavation and alot of other skills I got in there. Yes the intensive training permits some people to be god-like figures in combat, But that doesn't mean the whole aspect of Mcmmo is bad. 1/3 of the skills is pvp. Do we realy want the majority of the skills gone because a minority isn't accactly to our liking?

Perhaps also a neutral aspect, Game preformance. I sometimes experience lag during a fight. Why is this bad? I have to shoot and hit infront of a person to hit him, and it is impossible to kill somewone who constantly moves around during such an incounter. If this is either tps of fps idk. But I am not sure if pvp should be smoother first.


If pvp is to be improved then everyone must be killable. With this I mean is that people who have high skills must be killable by numbers. Why is this usualy impossible? They have good protection minimising their health loss, and usualy something to regenerate their health. I surpose you get the picture. But wat can we do about that? reducing damige inflicted only increases the effect of any regenerating effect. In other words you still need something or somewone strong enough to combat him, otherwise his health simply regenerates too fast. (removing items holding that property aint a sulotion. we cant keep trowing things out.)

Perhaps we must look at it from both sides. Both in the vision of pvper's and none pvper's.
Reducing the amount of time needed to train your skills up for combat might be one sulotion. Being as strong as the other takes less time and is easier achieved. Caps on all combat skills. Incase they arent there yet, put a maximum on how good you can train your skill. 1000??? You can continue to train, but the perks stop there. I believe they already do but I could be mistaken.

I know many said it before, but you realy have to train your combat skills to be able to beat them in fair combat. (even tho they usualy have the premium-diamond advantage) Weaker faction generaly have to outsmart their enemies. Building enclosed homes, living underground. Making traps to kill their enemies in. And no, don't expect weaker factions to use potions. The weak generaly haven't gotten their hands even on netherwart. Not to mention that they might not yet have a means of income to puchase potions.

All in all. Pvp is a difficult thing. To make it fun you need 2 fundemental things. Balance, and preformance. Keeping it fair and having little minimal lag issues.

Will perks be the sulotion? Perhaps... I gues that depends on wat perks are available and how they are balanced.

But like I stated at the start. Mcmmo is more than jsut pvp. And removing it intirely for the sake of Pvp? No, mcmmo is a good plugin. And it gives alot of awsome features. Yes it may create a big gab regarding to the pvp starters and veterans, but dispite all that. I rather have it the way it is now, than to see the whole of mcmmo removed. (a personal mcmmo of massive may be cool but I hate to start training all my skills again |-()

 

[KSTRandom]

Mcmmo doesen't fit on this server simply becouse a man/female can't be specialized at every singe skill during a lifetime. I personally don't think mcmmo is unbalanced at all. What really destroys the massivecraft pvp are the god armor/massive armor not mcmmo.

Iron Massive Armor woulden't solve a shit since non premiums would still be able to drop it meaning no on would really wear it, and if they did they would loose it after 3 hits with an axe. The real only way to solve massivecraft pvp is to remove the stupid abillity to keep armor on death.

Sure that might be the case of the surrender issue, but it's an issue alright and should be solved somehow.

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You can with enough determination be very very good at many many things. This spreads to combat too. You can be great at hand to hand combat, using swords, axes (even duel weilding the two, so long as both are one handed) and bows. It just takes some practice using multiple weapons in combat. There are such things as weapons masters, and anyone can be one so long as they arent like, farmers. They'd need to dedicate a good bit of time to the use of weapons, and the understanding of how using said weapon effects combat, and learning different styles.

 

[KSTRandom]

-snip-

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You know what numbers can do to take down massive armor? Bleed, serraded strikes, and fire aspect, then switch to axes. Anyway, the combat bonuses cap out around 1000ish, other than the special ability (i.e. serraded strikes time) don't cap. Though I think on massive it does, I know otherwise it doesnt. ._. (245s serraded strikes... ._. So scary..)
The problem isnt the plugin, it really isnt even the gear. The problem is the players. The players get taught some very interestingly wrong about PVP. Like, that 600+ Axes can beat anything and everything, or raising one skill to the insane heights makes you godlike. Not true. What newbies interested in PVP need to learn is how to fight. Most people don't know. Battle isnt all about enchants and skills. Because if you put a spamclicker who only moves in a straight line Massive Armor and give him a god axe and 1000 axes, he's an easy target for someone in the 100-200 range, just because he doesnt know how to manuever. Someone who can manuever and has a fireaspect sword can take down someone in massive armor easy. Especially with higher swords, because of bleed. (Counterattack helps too, for when you get hit.)
Massive PVP is a pretty decent system, it could go for some balancing so new players have a bit easier of a time (see my post in the other Massive PVP thread, the one that Marty started) The players, in my opinion, are the problem. They don't learn how to adapt to the mechanics like they should, they just complain, and then try the same thing that they failed with the time previous.

 

[Arvallon]

Such I do agree to aswel. KSTRandom

 

[TechPac]

No offense, but I wish people would stop commenting on this and use the OFFICIAL post, this may confuse a lot of people especially those new to the forums. Not to mention this all may go overlooked seeing as Marty wanted his own post to be used for solving the PvP issues so he can keep track of it. Another post like this just complicates things.

 

[KSTRandom]

No offense, but I wish people would stop commenting on this and use the OFFICIAL post, this may confuse a lot of people especially those new to the forums. Not to mention this all may go overlooked seeing as Marty wanted his own post to be used for solving the PvP issues so he can keep track of it. Another post like this just complicates things.

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I didn't notice this wasnt the official till when I was half through the post.. ._.

 

[Unluvable]

No offense, but I wish people would stop commenting on this and use the OFFICIAL post, this may confuse a lot of people especially those new to the forums. Not to mention this all may go overlooked seeing as Marty wanted his own post to be used for solving the PvP issues so he can keep track of it. Another post like this just complicates things.

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Although I tagged him and Lady Julianne kindly posted this thread's permalink in the official thread, I totally agree with you. The point of the official thread was for people to post -suggestions-, as well as 1) Why they found PvP boring, and 2) What they believed to be the solution. The people here are merely -discussing- the points that I had proposed in the original post, and whether they believe them to be good or poor ideas. I chose to make the thread because people in the official thread started to derail it by arguing whether this was a PvP or RP server or not and other silly things, which is pointless for the purpose of the original thread. The purpose of this thread has been achieved, and I hope someone from forum staff could lock this? Could someone tag a staff member here?

 

[MonMarty]

I will read trough this thread when I am drawing a conclusion to my player investigation.

 

[BulbousDevourer]

I agree with getting rid of premium diamond armor. Non-premiums don't stand a CHANCE against them. Their only hope is to get a really op weapon and hit them in the back.

 

[patrickdxs]

this may be a role play server but please use your brain, the reason why we buy premium is for its amazing abilities that enhance McMMO as well as pvp. remove it at once then the server will experience a rapid drop in donations. may i ask are you even a donator to the server??? we pvpers fuel this server not you.

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People need to be reminded this is a ROLE-PLAY server with pvp ASPECTs, and until the staff come up to me and say they will now contradict themselves by saying it's now a pvp server, i will stick to my opinion that pvpers should NOT fuel this server.

 

[Togal]

People need to be reminded this is a ROLE-PLAY server with pvp ASPECTs, and until the staff come up to me and say they will now contradict themselves by saying it's now a pvp server, i will stick to my opinion that pvpers should NOT fuel this server.

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I have been observing the server for awhile, almost all the donations and funding that it has received is due to the pvp aspects of the server. Most Rpers don't worry about being attacked due to their location in safezones as well as staff members protecting them from battles (no offense to all Rpers). 3 months ago the server was packed with wars as well as premium players, Rp was rich as well. When a war occurs its only normal to give a Rp reason and enjoy the excitement. what most of us want is a balance, what you want is only what a simpleton wants. my suggestion to you is to man up and donate if you don't want any "pvpers" to support the server YOUR in.

 

[Arvallon]

I agree with getting rid of premium diamond armor. Non-premiums don't stand a CHANCE against them. Their only hope is to get a really op weapon and hit them in the back.

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Diamond armour isnt everything. It helps, but only if you train you mcmmo skills along with it. Otherwise iron armoured people still smash you to bits. Besides there have been many topics about the diamond armour and it realy shouldn't be a issue anymore. I am maybe saying this as a premium but I used to be non-premium and complain aswel. Still would, But the staff made clear that this is 'one' of the main reasons they receive donations. And without donations... you know wat follows.;(

People need to be reminded this is a ROLE-PLAY server with pvp ASPECTs, and until the staff come up to me and say they will now contradict themselves by saying it's now a pvp server, i will stick to my opinion that pvpers should NOT fuel this server.

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Its both. It isnt mainly one or the other. This is the birth place of the factions plug-in. But the roleplay aspect is greatly encuraged by many. Thus you canot see one higher than the other, regardless of its state.

Ps: just made this reply to clerify, don't continue replying on it for it would be heading out of topic.

 

[Togal]

I agree with getting rid of premium diamond armor. Non-premiums don't stand a CHANCE against them. Their only hope is to get a really op weapon and hit them in the back.

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You realize the reason why when you are in your own faction territory you get a decreased amount of 30% damage. meaning you got the defense ability of a person in diamond armor. *just incase you complain about god armor* when people complain about god armor and massive armor they forget to realize how hard these people work the earn these items. sure we will be fine having non-premium (really i don't mind at all), but you have to think about how people are finding these things intriguing.

 

[KSTRandom]

I have been observing the server for awhile, almost all the donations and funding that it has received is due to the pvp aspects of the server. Most Rpers don't worry about being attacked due to their location in safezones as well as staff members protecting them from battles (no offense to all Rpers). 3 months ago the server was packed with wars as well as premium players, Rp was rich as well. When a war occurs its only normal to give a Rp reason and enjoy the excitement. what most of us want is a balance, what you want is only what a simpleton wants. my suggestion to you is to man up and donate if you don't want any "pvpers" to support the server YOUR in.

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The balance can only be made by the players themselves, Its impossible for the staff to truly impose such a balance. If the playerbase doesnt support it, its going to get ignored. People seem to overlook that fact.