Archived Pvp Is Rediculous.

JeanLucMontou · Jul 15, 2014

The only problem i (and colleagues) have with the current pvp situation is that the greater pvp factions now have the will and ability to utterly mow us down without resistance (and not from lack of attempt :]) and they need absolutely NO reason to do so. But even though there was an rp reason require before, they could literally plant their finger on a figurative list and say that was the reason. For us who enjoy farming, building, enchanting, and generally doing minecraft stuff together as a faction or even an empire, it's frustrating that people come in with two people and molest us utterly and thoroughly and no reasoning is required but boredom. I'm sure anyone can relate to working hours to gather their equipment, if not days, fool around in their garden or field, and out of the very sky, over my 30 block high wall, falls a crisp, shiny enderpearl and there stands someone who devoted his life to lol raiding. But having to create a reason is not enough, because people will still just spout a reason from their rear and call it rp.
My solution is this (and feel free to add in your own thoughts): what if when something is awry that would really cause the will to fight, it was treated like a small, quick, court case. Yes this would be a bit distracting to mods and staff but... What are they there for but to ensure the server runs smoothly and without outstanding hiccups? The attacker would be required to provide screenshots or other documentation of the aggravating incident, provide likewise documentation proof of a small or slight warning, and then their end is proven. I'm sure that in a real midieval world, bandits and marauders that attacked without warning would be held responsible for consequences just as this. I know this solution seems overly complicated for many who are the infamous 12 year olds that sit behind the computer and pretend they are gods, but I'll be honest. The game is NOT fun when there are prodigies running everywhere slaughtering whoever to no reason with no reprimand and it's why I left in the first place.
It's not about sportsmanship for these people. It's about boredom. I think taking your boredom out for no reason on someone who's done nothing wrong to you is as bad of a behavior as any bannable behavior I've seen. It reduces morale for new players and DEFINATELY hurts it for frequent ones. I'm not asking for peaceful factions. I'm asking for there to be more realistic raiding and warfare. It's purely about emersion for me. I'm not against pvp as a whole, but I am strongly FOR realism and purposeful battles. Those are the funnest.

Sparrow26 · Jul 20, 2014

I really believe this post is void... If you take away one element of the server which attracts many people (PvP at will) and make it a sub element of roleplay, people are not going to like this... I mean look at factions like Magnanimus... They have great lore, but they still pvp at will... Also look at Raptum... Yes we are not "lore fanatics" but we aren't as mentioned in a previous post "Giant space laser dragons". We are the Quartz knights of Raptum. Think of it this way: Imagine if you needed special permissions to roleplay your character... It's the exact same thing, pvp exists on Massivecraft and it is a huge base. Taking that away or restricting it is going to drive so many people away. So tolerate the pvp community just like we tolerate the rp community.

Celeras · Jul 20, 2014

sprrow26 said:
I really believe this post is void... If you take away one element of the server which attracts many people (PvP at will) and make it a sub element of roleplay, people are not going to like this... I mean look at factions like Magnanimus... They have great lore, but they still pvp at will... Also look at Raptum... Yes we are not "lore fanatics" but we aren't as mentioned in a previous post "Giant space laser dragons". We are the Quartz knights of Raptum. Think of it this way: Imagine if you needed special permissions to roleplay your character... It's the exact same thing, pvp exists on Massivecraft and it is a huge base. Taking that away or restricting it is going to drive so many people away. So tolerate the pvp community just like we tolerate the rp community.

Tolerate? LOL

As if RPers come to your base and shove it down your throat. (facepalm)

Give me a break.

Mecharic · Jul 20, 2014

65jes89 said:
You realize, that if enderpearls were disabled, almot no bases would be raidable? Put up a 3 high cobble wall around your faction, cut down a few trees, and you now have your completely unraidable base! All it took was 15 stacks of cobble and 30 minutes, but now my 30 minites of effort automatically wins over any raiders, no matter how much effort they put forth trying to get in. And role-play wise, it doesn't make sense that a 9 foot wall, regardless of the material, can keep anyone out.

Actually, someone would at least need rope to get over a 9ft wall. It may not be the best defense, but most palisades (which kept out 85% of all bandits and 50% of all raiders) were at most 12ft tall. To keep out a powerful army with siege equipement would have taken better, of course, but let us take Docktowns wall. It's a solid 16-32 blocks tall for the most part (it has some much taller parts), is made of sandstone, and sits on a very uneven region. By any type of roleplay, the city should be an unbreachable fortress, due to the lack of flat ground for proper siege equipment and due to the sand preventing someone from digging under the walls (sand would collapse on them and kill them). Ladders could work, but those are precarious at best. And yet, all it takes is a well aimed Enderpearl to ignore the walls we spent time and resources building.

sprrow26 said:
I really believe this post is void... If you take away one element of the server which attracts many people (PvP at will) and make it a sub element of roleplay, people are not going to like this... I mean look at factions like Magnanimus... They have great lore, but they still pvp at will... Also look at Raptum... Yes we are not "lore fanatics" but we aren't as mentioned in a previous post "Giant space laser dragons". We are the Quartz knights of Raptum. Think of it this way: Imagine if you needed special permissions to roleplay your character... It's the exact same thing, pvp exists on Massivecraft and it is a huge base. Taking that away or restricting it is going to drive so many people away. So tolerate the pvp community just like we tolerate the rp community.

We aren't asking much. We're asking that you use that gray matter in between your ears for about 3 seconds to think of a half-decent RP reason for your raid. I can give you a list if you want: For money, for loot, we're barbarians, we're orcs, we're pirates, we're a mercenary army, we're desperate for food, we're in a bad mood, we're bandits, we're an enemy army, we're from the Sultanate against Regalia, we're from Regalia against the Sultanate, we're bloodthirsty, we're vampires, we're undead, we're pissed, we're headhunters.

Many PvPers have said that RPers are lazy because we don't want to train stats. My direct response now is that PvPers are lazy because they don't want to think up an RP reason for their raid.

JeanLucMontou · Jul 20, 2014

It's not about robbing someone of a server right. It's about placing the burden on attackers. Not defenders that bust their ass building a realistically defendable wall. The sole way people get around my defences is by endering.

Made_By · Jul 20, 2014

JeanLucMontou said:
It's not about robbing someone of a server right. It's about placing the burden on attackers. Not defenders that bust their ass building a realistically defendable wall. The sole way people get around my defences is by endering.

What so the attackers don't bust their assess? searching for coords, buying portal codes, making god weapons, potions, god armour, farming ender pearls, grinding mcmmo?

Absinthe · Jul 20, 2014

Made_By said:
What so the attackers don't bust their assess? searching for coords, buying portal codes, making god weapons, potions, god armour, farming ender pearls, grinding mcmmo?

Bust their asses? It's incredibly easy to find where a base is. Most attackers are premium, and were premiums before the change and already have the money for god armor. Mcmmo isn't that hard to grind with a dark room, which are seriously not hard to make at all. Searching for coords before the dynmap glitch wasn't hard. Portal codes can be found unless someone protected it, even if they did they're not hard to get. Coords can still be asked for in trade and most of the time people get them for a really small amount of money. Making god weapons/armor is hard, that's it though. For the most part attacks don't bust their ass, or even have that hard of a time getting such materials.

FCCarnilord · Jul 21, 2014

Made_By said:
What so the attackers don't bust their assess? searching for coords, buying portal codes, making god weapons, potions, god armour, farming ender pearls, grinding mcmmo?

Searching co ordinates isn't that hard.
Buying a portal code is not that difficult, someone just needs to spill the beans.
Making God weapons takes less effort using Level1 enchants on swords or books to get sharp 1. Make more. Less XP per God weapon+Extra books for other items or to sell. I made 3 God axes in about a day in Osai. OSAI. As a non premium with iron armor, no XP bonus, and a wish for solely roleplay, I did that most of my day. Grinding, very little in comparison.
Potions are no worry with an auto-brewer and enough ingredients.
Ender pearl farming can be difficult. I'll give you that.
Again, level 1 enchants with books.
MCMMO grinding is easy. Sure, time consuming, but it never diminishes. I have ~450 axes, and for 90% of my time on Massivecraft I've been roleplaying. I've never raided anyone. Some friends or a miner to help, dig out a dark room. More Mining skill, ores and a dark room.
Kill mobs, raise MCMMO, get regals, buy everything you need (Not literally, but enough to cut time by 1/4).
They really don't bust their ass as much as people say.

Made_By · Jul 21, 2014

AgeisQuartz said:
Bust their asses? It's incredibly easy to find where a base is.

Toxiclord said:
Searching co ordinates isn't that hard.

Sorry but I know it's not just me, but factions on dynmap have been disabled for me, making it extra hard to find the location of another base.

Toxiclord said:
I've never raided anyone.

Then how do you know the preparation it takes?

Muireann_Alessa · Jul 21, 2014

Naturally any good raiding parties make preparations. I think the point is that when that is said it can come across as "we already have to do xyz so we should be able to use pearls." Personally I think if you want to attack someone who doesnt want a fight and potentially ruin their play it SHOULD be difficult for you to do so.

TheTerrawr · Jul 21, 2014

Mecharic said:
Actually, someone would at least need rope to get over a 9ft wall. It may not be the best defense, but most palisades (which kept out 85% of all bandits and 50% of all raiders) were at most 12ft tall. To keep out a powerful army with siege equipement would have taken better, of course, but let us take Docktowns wall. It's a solid 16-32 blocks tall for the most part (it has some much taller parts), is made of sandstone, and sits on a very uneven region. By any type of roleplay, the city should be an unbreachable fortress, due to the lack of flat ground for proper siege equipment and due to the sand preventing someone from digging under the walls (sand would collapse on them and kill them). Ladders could work, but those are precarious at best. And yet, all it takes is a well aimed Enderpearl to ignore the walls we spent time and resources building.

We aren't asking much. We're asking that you use that gray matter in between your ears for about 3 seconds to think of a half-decent RP reason for your raid. I can give you a list if you want: For money, for loot, we're barbarians, we're orcs, we're pirates, we're a mercenary army, we're desperate for food, we're in a bad mood, we're bandits, we're an enemy army, we're from the Sultanate against Regalia, we're from Regalia against the Sultanate, we're bloodthirsty, we're vampires, we're undead, we're pissed, we're headhunters.

Many PvPers have said that RPers are lazy because we don't want to train stats. My direct response now is that PvPers are lazy because they don't want to think up an RP reason for their raid.

@AnyRaptumMemberEver

If you want to raid Mecharic, give him this RP reason so that he is happy.

I. Am. Hungry.

Mecharic · Jul 21, 2014

Terrariauk said:
@AnyRaptumMemberEver

If you want to raid Mecharic, give him this RP reason so that he is happy.

I. Am. Hungry.

lol, any of those reasons are legit in my mind, and I'll probably still use some choice words, but I won't consider it raid4lulz. Ok I probably will, but I'll keep it to myself

FCCarnilord · Jul 21, 2014

Made_By said:
Sorry but I know it's not just me, but factions on dynmap have been disabled for me, making it extra hard to find the location of another base.

Then how do you know the preparation it takes?

Do you really need to ask that question?
There are other servers out there, and I've made about all of those with not a single problem except-
We had to find co ordinates ourselves, no Dynmap.
We can't find a random person on Dynmap because the server doesn't have one.
There aren't portal codes, everything you do is walking and exploring to find a faction to raid. Granted unless it was an unclaimed sky base, but Massive doesn't allow those.
TNT was an additional addon to raid.
Obsidian was needed, as well as creating a regenerating wall that can most likely stop hybrid cannons.
Basement levels so people can't enderpearl glitch straight up.
4-5 thick walls so it's not possible to horse glitch inside.

If even I had a Double chest of Prot4, within 2 days of joining that server, others can get it too.

Terrariauk said:
@AnyRaptumMemberEver

If you want to raid Mecharic, give him this RP reason so that he is happy.

I. Am. Hungry.

"I dislike his new beard severely, I can sense it making fun of me behind his back. Time for war."
(@Mecharic)

Absinthe · Jul 21, 2014

Made_By said:
Sorry but I know it's not just me, but factions on dynmap have been disabled for me, making it extra hard to find the location of another base.

Exactly. They're disabled for everyone, it's some sort of bug. Even so, it's not hard getting the coords to a base. Ask the Enemies of the faction you're looking for, they'd probably be really quick to tell you and you'd gain an ally. Now if you can't bother to do so, it's a different story. There's literally an endless amount of ways you can get coords, or portal combinations for a faction you'd like to raid, whether or not you know them or do them is a different story, so I don't think it's right of you to generalize that everyone has a hard time when really it's just a handful of people.

Skip_HD · Jul 22, 2014

@JeanLucMontou might I ask why you gave my post a disagree? I would like an explanation. My post was opinion based so I would gladly like your opinion on it.

JeanLucMontou · Jul 22, 2014

Skip_HD said:
@JeanLucMontou might I ask why you gave my post a disagree? I would like an explanation. My post was opinion based so I would gladly like your opinion on it.

Because I disagreed with your opinion. I can spend an entire week in a darkroom and get to level 1000 in a combat MCMMO stat. I can spend a week thinking about my build and executing my build and still not be done with a faction of my desire. Building is more time consuming and mentally demanding than grinding in a darkroom. Raiding is easy. Once you know where they are and you have the means and equipment, it's ready and go. Most PvPers already have adequate stats. "You people" act like you loose all your stats every time you attack. Most people stop training after a certain level. Those of you who already have 1000+ combat stats and god armor, you stop dark rooming. So that isn't a valid excuse for a burden on attackers. I can understand the original start up burden but after that, it's done. The defending forces have to build up, find weaknesses, go back and fix mistakes, then spruce up what they have. And if you're like me, you want it to look nice too. Then you run the place. Farming, mining, and other necessary work. It takes weeks to get your fac defendable and such. It might take 1 week to get ready for PvP and after that maybe one day or two of prep before a big raid. Raiding is NOT hard. Defending is.

TheTerrawr · Jul 22, 2014

JeanLucMontou said:
Because I disagreed with your opinion. I can spend an entire week in a darkroom and get to level 1000 in a combat MCMMO stat. I can spend a week thinking about my build and executing my build and still not be done with a faction of my desire. Building is more time consuming and mentally demanding than grinding in a darkroom. Raiding is easy. Once you know where they are and you have the means and equipment, it's ready and go. Most PvPers already have adequate stats. "You people" act like you loose all your stats every time you attack. Most people stop training after a certain level. Those of you who already have 1000+ combat stats and god armor, you stop dark rooming. So that isn't a valid excuse for a burden on attackers. I can understand the original start up burden but after that, it's done. The defending forces have to build up, find weaknesses, go back and fix mistakes, then spruce up what they have. And if you're like me, you want it to look nice too. Then you run the place. Farming, mining, and other necessary work. It takes weeks to get your fac defendable and such. It might take 1 week to get ready for PvP and after that maybe one day or two of prep before a big raid. Raiding is NOT hard. Defending is.

Im sorry but when did anyone on the server be on it for a week and be up there with the top pvpers? You are making it sound much easier than it is.

TheTerrawr · Jul 22, 2014

Terrariauk said:
Im sorry but when did anyone on the server be on it for a week and be up there with the top pvpers? You are making it sound much easier than it is.

@JeanLucMontou

Explain the disagree. Or remove it.

In fact, explain all the disagrees on my today, or remove them.

JeanLucMontou · Jul 22, 2014

Terrariauk said:
Im sorry but when did anyone on the server be on it for a week and be up there with the top pvpers? You are making it sound much easier than it is.

When did I say that's how you become a top PvPer? That's how to raid. There are plenty of raids that happen that aren't from the top in class.

TheTerrawr · Jul 22, 2014

JeanLucMontou said:
When did I say that's how you become a top PvPer? That's how to raid. There are plenty of raids that happen that aren't from the top in class.

Then the same can be said for defenders. Put a week training in and bam, you can defend.

JeanLucMontou · Jul 22, 2014

That isn't the subject of my idea discussion. The subject is that a change needs to be made to keep attackers from incessantly raiding. All it takes is to declare war and I get to raid you all I want. I say you as a general meaning btw. There needs to be something to keep them from mindlessly attacking anyone who they wish. And I think that impeding their ability to attack "willy-nilly" is an effective measure.

ZiHAMMER · Jul 22, 2014

You are just trying to restrict the freedom, that's what is rediculous.

Muireann_Alessa · Jul 22, 2014

T

Terrariauk said:
Then the same can be said for defenders. Put a week training in and bam, you can defend.

Thats just it though. Everyone has a different gamestyle. If someone has a few hours to spend online they dont necessarily WANT to spend it in the darkroom. Because they have other goals and things they are trying to accomplish. Peaceful factions pose no threat so why bother them? Leave them be and concentrate on the big guys who actually do want to fight.

Muireann_Alessa · Jul 22, 2014

ZIHAMMER1411 said:
You are just trying to restrict the freedom, that's what is rediculous.

Why is it so difficult to respect that some people just want to be left alone?

TheTerrawr · Jul 22, 2014

Muireann_Alessa said:
T

Thats just it though. Everyone has a different gamestyle. If someone has a few hours to spend online they dont necessarily WANT to spend it in the darkroom. Because they have other goals and things they are trying to accomplish. Peaceful factions pose no threat so why bother them? Leave them be and concentrate on the big guys who actually do want to fight.

Well as you said, that's there choice. If they don't want to train, they shouldn't complain when the two hours a week a faction decides to raid them. They had a choice to be able to defend properly, but they chose not to, and move onto something else. Myself, I focused on training and money making for the last few weeks of faction set up, and am now onto building. Both are achievable.

ZiHAMMER · Jul 22, 2014

Muireann_Alessa said:
Why is it so difficult to respect that some people just want to be left alone?

You are given the respect with Surrender options.

TheTerrawr · Jul 22, 2014

JeanLucMontou said:
That isn't the subject of my idea discussion. The subject is that a change needs to be made to keep attackers from incessantly raiding. All it takes is to declare war and I get to raid you all I want. I say you as a general meaning btw. There needs to be something to keep them from mindlessly attacking anyone who they wish. And I think that impeding their ability to attack "willy-nilly" is an effective measure.

The vast majority of factions do not declare war without reason. The reasons for my war declarations have so far been raiding myself, raiding an empire member, flaming and insulting me, or for helping an enemy. All valid reasons to attack someone.

Skip_HD · Jul 22, 2014

JeanLucMontou said:
Because I disagreed with your opinion. I can spend an entire week in a darkroom and get to level 1000 in a combat MCMMO stat. I can spend a week thinking about my build and executing my build and still not be done with a faction of my desire. Building is more time consuming and mentally demanding than grinding in a darkroom. Raiding is easy. Once you know where they are and you have the means and equipment, it's ready and go. Most PvPers already have adequate stats. "You people" act like you loose all your stats every time you attack. Most people stop training after a certain level. Those of you who already have 1000+ combat stats and god armor, you stop dark rooming. So that isn't a valid excuse for a burden on attackers. I can understand the original start up burden but after that, it's done. The defending forces have to build up, find weaknesses, go back and fix mistakes, then spruce up what they have. And if you're like me, you want it to look nice too. Then you run the place. Farming, mining, and other necessary work. It takes weeks to get your fac defendable and such. It might take 1 week to get ready for PvP and after that maybe one day or two of prep before a big raid. Raiding is NOT hard. Defending is.

I spent one month and a half training with one of the best factions. I trained stats, I got god armor. Does not mean I am ready for every raid I will ever do, I am not a god at PvP. Infact most people have no idea who I am. Am I going to win every fight? Hell no! I am going to loose my axe and my potions so I spend money and resources making new stuff. It takes a heck of alot longer to than 1 week to get ready for PvP. You made this thread completely biased and only giving one side of the argument. Even the poll is worded in a way to persuade people to agree with you. Here is a challenge for you @JeanLucMontou I want you to spend one week getting armor, grinding stats, making potions then when the week is up go attack a faction. Not some small, defenceless faction. Go attack someone like Raptum or Mag and see how raiding is not an easy thing to do.

Mecharic · Jul 22, 2014

This is still going? Just quit it. PvPers and RPers will never agree on how to play the game and what kinds of buffs, limits, or rules should be in place. The two groups are just too different from one another to agree.

ZiHAMMER · Jul 22, 2014

PVPers are bad

RPers are bad

JeanLucMontou · Jul 22, 2014

Terrariauk said:
Well as you said, that's there choice. If they don't want to train, they shouldn't complain when the two hours a week a faction decides to raid them. They had a choice to be able to defend properly, but they chose not to, and move onto something else. Myself, I focused on training and money making for the last few weeks of faction set up, and am now onto building. Both are achievable.

But not everyone in the server is keen on fighting. Nor should they be forced to but it happens I understand. The system of pvp here is frustrating to say the least. One fac can raid you and take what you have and the next can come right along and take the nothing that you have left. And then another.

Joshy54100 · Jul 22, 2014

Mecharic said:
Fair 'nuff to point 1. On point 2, you PvPers would have a lot less complaints if you kept to yourselves a bit more.

PvP is player versus player. This requires OTHER players. You can't PvP by yourself. So it makes no sense to say we should keep to 'ourselves'.

Mecharic · Jul 22, 2014

Joshy54100 said:
PvP is player versus player. This requires OTHER players. You can't PvP by yourself. So it makes no sense to say we should keep to 'ourselves'.

I'm talking Soldier V/S Soldier, not Soldier V/S Civilian. If MassiveCraft was real the entire PvP community would have been executed for crimes against blockanity by now -_-

Joshy54100 · Jul 22, 2014

Mecharic said:
I'm talking Soldier V/S Soldier, not Soldier V/S Civilian. If MassiveCraft was real the entire PvP community would have been executed for crimes against blockanity by now -_-

PvP doesn't have to be a balanced fight of "soldier vs soldier" to be PvP. If one player fights another player then it is PvP.

Joshy54100 · Jul 22, 2014

Celeras said:
Tolerate? LOL

As if RPers come to your base and shove it down your throat. (facepalm)

Give me a break.

Again, the nature of RP and PvP are extremely different, this comparison is just completely irrelevant.

Archived Pvp Is Rediculous.

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