Archived Pvp Death Significance

[BenRekt]

I know this idea may become controversial, but I have noticed that deaths in wars (and wars themselves) have become increasingly less meaningful, especially for richer PvP factions. Deaths at the moment are almost meaningless, and will not shape how a war plays out and concludes, one (or many) deaths will almost never determine if a war continues or ends with a surrender, and are instead usually concluded out of valuables / items taken from the deaths themselves (if there is any at all).

A solution to, what I would call, a "problem" could possibly be to introduce a small death tax. The way this would work is that when you die by a player, you would lose a certain amount of regals, either taken from the player or the faction bank. This will help give wars the significance it really deserves. Wars will begin to impact factions and individual players economically, and will add significance to the regal. This death tax would add a very crucial element to wars, and that is the ability to cripple factions into surrendering to stronger ones.

Larger factions would, and must, have to have lower death taxes, which would also simulate the significance of losing one man in a large army, compared to a smaller faction, with a smaller army. This will encourage larger factions to be favored over smaller factions, as it should be in wars - numbers should always give you a distinct advantage, in terms of combat and economically.

Pros:

• Creates a need to surrender / conclude wars
• Encourages larger factions to form, rather than smaller ones
• Gives major significance to wars
• Discourages suicide-rushes.

Cons:

• Creates a potential to misuse the death tax to waste a faction's bank

If you have any feedback, please respectfully leave it in the comments.

Thanks,
Ben

Just people I want opinions from:
@FubeTheMangler @Wannag @Joshy54100 @Yoloorange @wafflecash @YankeeGiant8013 @zZ_AwAkE_Zz @thor5648 @Waminer @desert_eagle98 @SwiftPvP @DisturbedReaper @@ObscureKoala@kevencolis @Assembly123 @Alj23 @spectec

 

[Laach]

McMMO is the only factor of this that I'm hesitant about. It guarantees that new players or roleplay factions will be the perfect prey for any PvP faction regardless of personal experience.

 

[kevencolis]

When will people understand that mcmmo is nothing!?!? There is a cap on every single skills. If they get rid of mcmmo tomorrow I can assure you that it would be the same exact thing. Pvpers will raid and kill people thats what we like to do but they need to find a way so people are kind of "forced" to surrender to better pvpers. Cause right now almost faction leader says "we will never surrender".

 

[Jackmo_Jones]

If you own a faction in a survial world, than you should be willing to accept the fact that you might be raided, and you might die, and you might lose some items. Just because you don't care to play the game exactly like we do, doesn't mean you should be able to completely close yourself off from interacting with it. So long as you're in an enviroment, the survival worlds, that facilitates and allows PVPers to raid and pillage, you'll have to deal with it.
We want this addition, because leaders would finally be forced to stop being so stubborn, and actually see that, "Hey! My faction is getting slaughtered over and over, maybe I should consider surrendering. It is the only logical thing to do." No one ever surrenders anymore, when they honestly should. When all the signs, and all the results of fights and raids point to one thing; Surrender!
Oh, and we threw realism out the window a long time ago when we reminded everyone that we're playing a game based on worlds created out of blocks.

Click to shrink...

Can you explain why they should give up?

I'm not gonna name any names here but a certain faction I was in, was in a bloody war with another faction that neither side could possibly win. With our above average abilities to mass produce weapons and armor as well as regals we had literally no reason to give up cause despite the heavy losses we could sustain ourselves for years under their constant pressure without really altering the quality of our gameplay. The whole time the Offensive leader was begging me to surrender saying I had no other choice and we couldn't possibly win. After a few more weeks of their attempts they backed off. Pressure on them from other factions proved too great and they had to refocus their efforts elsewhere. A little later the two best PvPers in their faction got banned for hacking and the remaining few realized we were at a stalemate and gave up. We truced then, and since have become allies.

War has many different outcomes, war can, last a very long time, war can have almost no monetary gain, and war almost always solves nothing.

 

[Alj23]

Can you explain why they should give up?

I'm not gonna name any names here but a certain faction I was in, was in a bloody war with another faction that neither side could possibly win. With our above average abilities to mass produce weapons and armor as well as regals we had literally no reason to give up cause despite the heavy losses we could sustain ourselves for years under their constant pressure without really altering the quality of our gameplay. The whole time the Offensive leader was begging me to surrender saying I had no other choice and we couldn't possibly win. After a few more weeks of their attempts they backed off. Pressure on them from other factions proved too great and they had to refocus their efforts elsewhere. A little later the two best PvPers in their faction got banned for hacking and the remaining few realized we were at a stalemate and gave up. We truced then, and since have become allies.

War has many different outcomes, war can, last a very long time, war can have almost no monetary gain, and war almost always solves nothing.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't referencing specific wars. Sure, there come the ones were neither side should give up. If what you say is true, and that you could continue producing supplies to last you years under their pressure, than you have no reason to worry about the money that would be lost from your faction bank. If you're producing god weapons and god armor, than you're in the dark room grinding, which also means a source of regals. Through all the regals your members would have made in the dark room in the faction bank, and there is no reason to worry about losing too much money. If you're financially stable, than I see no reason for you to surrender, and wouldn't suggest it. Whether or not the losing of the regals per death makes you financially unstable falls back on the faction being attacked.

This feature would more so help the factions that have declared war on another faction, and are obviously wiping the floor with them. If I go and declare war on faction, and win every raid, every fight, every encounter, there is no logic that can argue in any sensible manner that would convince me otherwise that I am not and should not be winning this war. With the current system, it doesn't matter if I kick their butts from sun up to sun down, drawing 50 or 100 deaths from them. Because of a technicality, or a lack of a feature, there is no apparent winning side of war, when we all know who it is, just by analyzing the situation and giving it the smallest bit of thought.

War in the past have solved issues. War has made my faction carry the reputation it holds so dear. If we can't ever end a war after it becomes obvious that we are winning, then what have we accomplished?

 

[Gwyndo]

Didn't read through all the comments, but a malicious member could die over and over to drain your faction bank of all it's money, making this the most easily exploitable implementation I've ever seen, and the most easily fixable.

Instead of the faction losing money, they player did, and if the player didn't have the money perhaps they would lose something else?
An automatic 100% head drop perhaps?

 

[Kapry]

@Jack_The_Unseen
You should read all the comments again, then you would see, that everything you talk about has already been talked about.

 

[Wannag]

Can you explain why they should give up?

I'm not gonna name any names here but a certain faction I was in, was in a bloody war with another faction that neither side could possibly win. With our above average abilities to mass produce weapons and armor as well as regals we had literally no reason to give up cause despite the heavy losses we could sustain ourselves for years under their constant pressure without really altering the quality of our gameplay. The whole time the Offensive leader was begging me to surrender saying I had no other choice and we couldn't possibly win. After a few more weeks of their attempts they backed off. Pressure on them from other factions proved too great and they had to refocus their efforts elsewhere. A little later the two best PvPers in their faction got banned for hacking and the remaining few realized we were at a stalemate and gave up. We truced then, and since have become allies.

War has many different outcomes, war can, last a very long time, war can have almost no monetary gain, and war almost always solves nothing.

Click to shrink...

Wonder who you're referencing in that first paragraph. And I wonder who helped you fight them >_>

 

[Gwyndo]

@Jack_The_Unseen
You should read all the comments again, then you would see, that everything you talk about has already been talked about.

Click to shrink...

I stated I hadn't read them to begin with*
Just because someone else said it doesn't mean I wouldn't say it too =)

 

[Sarge_Peppers]

I think this is going in the wrong direction. If we just took big wars that last more than say a month without surrendering, and the staff clearly identifies this war is going in an absurd direction which would mean intense flame between the 2 factions. The staff would put in some time, Import the 2 capitols into an arena, catalog each sides military assets, and then arrange a formal war between the two factions where they can scorch earth, and salt lands. When a faction runs out of resources then surrender would be necessary.

This would require a team of 10 staff or so and cooperation from both factions, but it would be worthwhile to stop wars that have been going on for over a year.

 

[Kapry]

I stated I hadn't read them to begin with*
Just because someone else said it doesn't mean I wouldn't say it too =)

Click to shrink...

The thing is, someone already stated, why draining money from players has no effect. (It's because players could just transfer all of their money to an alt account. Then they wouldn't lose money. A faction however has to have money in their bank all the time. Concerning the exploitability of this suggestion I already gave a detailed solution to that.)

 

[Gwyndo]

The thing is, someone already stated, why draining money from players has no effect. (It's because players could just transfer all of their money to an alt account. Then they wouldn't lose money. A faction however has to have money in their bank all the time. Concerning the exploitability of this suggestion I already gave a detailed solution to that.)

Click to shrink...

Yes, but as I also said - They would have a 100% chance to drop their head as a trophy to the killer. There are many other things that could happen to a player that doesn't just make them have less money. It can be expanded upon =)

 

[Jackmo_Jones]

Wonder who you're referencing in that first paragraph. And I wonder who helped you fight them >_>

Click to shrink...

Hehe It may have been a little pressure from Mag that pulled them off us.

<3 Magnanimus

 

[Alj23]

Instead of the faction losing money, they player did, and if the player didn't have the money perhaps they would lose something else?
An automatic 100% head drop perhaps?

Click to shrink...

I'm trying wrap my head around the idea that in a situation where people drop their heads 100% of the time, how that gets them any closer to surrendering? Hell, Magnanimus has tons of heads on display out front of our castle. That didn't convince the owner's of said heads to surrender.

To make people surrender, something that is important to them on a daily basis must be taken. Heads serve no purpose but as a decoration.

 

[Gwyndo]

I'm trying wrap my head around the idea that in a situation where people drop their heads 100% of the time, how that gets them any closer to surrendering? Hell, Magnanimus has tons of heads on display out front of our castle. That didn't convince the owner's of said heads to surrender.

To make people surrender, something that is important to them on a daily basis must be taken. Heads serve no purpose but as a decoration.

Click to shrink...

I suppose you're right. I for one would rather lose a few Regals than my head, but the same can not be said for may...

 

[kevencolis]

 

[Tyler821]

This opens the door to kamikaze members. What if an enemy, on an alt, infiltrated their faction and willingly died multiple times to drain the faction bank? That's just a dirty war. Your comeback will probably be: "then dont recruit alts bruh"

How are we supposed to know which accounts are serious and which are fake? Do we just discriminate against new players and not recruit them for fear of them being alts? This is an interesting idea, but there are too many loopholes you didn't account for.

@Ha5h @BenAlex144

(On a sidenote, isn't it strange how staff only want to add to the faction and economy plugins if it involves taxes? They don't like to quote "interfere" with the economy unless it's to drain our bank accounts.)

 

[wafflecash]

@Tyler821 Alt spies are illegal and will get your enemy banned

 

[Tyler821]

@wafflecash It's hard to enforce that without an IP check. For all the staff know/care about, it's just a new player who dies a lot.

 

[Alj23]

This opens the door to kamikaze members. What if an enemy, on an alt, infiltrated their faction and willingly died multiple times to drain the faction bank? That's just a dirty war. Your comeback will probably be: "then dont recruit alts bruh"

How are we supposed to know which accounts are serious and which are fake? Do we just discriminate against new players and not recruit them for fear of them being alts? This is an interesting idea, but there are too many loopholes you didn't account for.

@Ha5h @BenAlex144

(On a sidenote, isn't it strange how staff only want to add to the faction and economy plugins if it involves taxes? They don't like to quote "interfere" with the economy unless it's to drain our bank accounts.)

Click to shrink...

@wafflecash It's hard to enforce that without an IP check. For all the staff know/care about, it's just a new player who dies a lot.

Click to shrink...

Then you make a ticket. That's why the ticket system exist, to confirm your suspicion that someone is abusing/breaking the rules. If it turns out to not be an alternate account, than the worse thing the staff can tell you is that it isn't an alternate account of anyone, and no rules have been broken.
Mind you, if the basics of this idea were accepted to be worked on, the outcome would probably be very different than what appears on this thread. Staff would take the original idea, work on it, and come out with something suitable that won't too harshly impact players.

 

[Tyler821]

Then you make a ticket. That's why the ticket system exist, to confirm your suspicion that someone is abusing/breaking the rules. If it turns out to not be an alternate account, than the worse thing the staff can tell you is that it isn't an alternate account of anyone, and no rules have been broken.
Mind you, if the basics of this idea were accepted to be worked on, the outcome would probably be very different than what appears on this thread. Staff would take the original idea, work on it, and come out with something suitable that won't too harshly impact players.

Click to shrink...

I actually wouldn't mind (and I'd even like) this idea if there was a way to make a peaceful faction. For example, on faction territory, no one can kill anyone, and the members of said peaceful fac cannot kill any other players unless in a Warzone. That way, RPers can be happy, and PVPers can be happy. After all, PVPers are supposed to fight each other, not hapless RPers trying to have fun a different way.

Someone's Counterargument: "oh no everyone will b3 pe4ceful1!!1!1!" A faction can have higher taxes per chunk if they want to be peaceful. For example, instead of .1r per chunk in a normal fac, a peaceful fac could have .2r per chunk, or double the price. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it would make a difference. (For example, my current tax is like 40r/day, it would be 80r/day as a peaceful fac.)

@BenAlex144

 

[Tyler821]

You didn't even respond to the topic at hand in my post and completely changed the subject.

God...

Click to shrink...

Mind you, if the basics of this idea were accepted to be worked on, the outcome would probably be very different than what appears on this thread. Staff would take the original idea, work on it, and come out with something suitable that won't too harshly impact players.

Click to shrink...

Actually, I didn't change the subject; you said mods would work on it, so I gave my version of "working on it." By the way, don't "god" me. I'm discussing another possibility for this plugin like you brought up.

 

[Alj23]

I know this idea may become controversial, but I have noticed that deaths in wars (and wars themselves) have become increasingly less meaningful, especially for richer PvP factions. Deaths at the moment are almost meaningless, and will not shape how a war plays out and concludes, one (or many) deaths will almost never determine if a war continues or ends with a surrender, and are instead usually concluded out of valuables / items taken from the deaths themselves (if there is any at all).

A solution to, what I would call, a "problem" could possibly be to introduce a small death tax. The way this would work is that when you die by a player, you would lose a certain amount of regals, either taken from the player or the faction bank. This will help give wars the significance it really deserves. Wars will begin to impact factions and individual players economically, and will add significance to the regal. This death tax would add a very crucial element to wars, and that is the ability to cripple factions into surrendering to stronger ones.

Larger factions would, and must, have to have lower death taxes, which would also simulate the significance of losing one man in a large army, compared to a smaller faction, with a smaller army. This will encourage larger factions to be favored over smaller factions, as it should be in wars - numbers should always give you a distinct advantage, in terms of combat and economically.

Pros:

• Creates a need to surrender / conclude wars
• Encourages larger factions to form, rather than smaller ones
• Gives major significance to wars
• Discourages suicide-rushes.

Cons:

• Creates a potential to misuse the death tax to waste a faction's bank

If you have any feedback, please respectfully leave it in the comments.

Thanks,
Ben

Just people I want opinions from:
@@FubeTheMangler @@Wannag @@Joshy54100 @@Yoloorange @@wafflecash @@YankeeGiant8013@zZ_AwAkE_Zz @@thor5648 @@Waminer @@desert_eagle98 @@SwiftPvP @@DisturbedReaper @@ObscureKoala@kevencolis @@Assembly123 @@Alj23 @@spectec

Click to shrink...

Great idea Ben! I would love to see people surrender for once. Currently, it's their pride and the idea that all you have to do is hide in your base for hours on end that prevents a surrender. "Oh, five of my members just got killed and lost their stuff? No biggy." "Oh, they say they are coming back tommorrow and then next day and the next day, because they have an approved war declaration? Pfft. Let em come. I'll just sit inside my house. This sure is a cozy house. Mmm."

This is not how things should work. If my faction shows up and kills you and your members, you should feel pressure to do something that will end this. Not event taking into account if I did this multiple times.

+1

 

[BenRekt]

I actually wouldn't mind (and I'd even like) this idea if there was a way to make a peaceful faction. For example, on faction territory, no one can kill anyone, and the members of said peaceful fac cannot kill any other players unless in a Warzone. That way, RPers can be happy, and PVPers can be happy. After all, PVPers are supposed to fight each other, not hapless RPers trying to have fun a different way.

Someone's Counterargument: "oh no everyone will b3 pe4ceful1!!1!1!" A faction can have higher taxes per chunk if they want to be peaceful. For example, instead of .1r per chunk in a normal fac, a peaceful fac could have .2r per chunk, or double the price. Doesn't seem like a lot, but it would make a difference. (For example, my current tax is like 40r/day, it would be 80r/day as a peaceful fac.)

@BenAlex144

Click to shrink...

So basically your either really new to this server, or you just didn't read the whole post I made. This is EXACTLY the opposite of what I want. Now instead of wars ending, they just won't happen. If we want to stimulate PvP, this is the exact opposite of what we want. Instead of paying to be a "peaceful faction" they should pay tribute and surrender if an enemy is superior than them.

 

[BenRekt]

You're kidding, right? It's not changing the subject.

Okay, I know you're probably a bit bitter that you're not a staff member anymore, but I think it's affecting your logic.

Sincerely,
Tyler, King of Sass

Click to shrink...

Please do everyone a favor, and either stop flaming and think about what you are saying, or get off my thread.

 

[GrunklePeter]

@Mecharic throwing away the realism idea in my opinion I wish there was less small factions and more big ones and having the small ones disband is what would benefit my belief

Click to shrink...

If it would be ike that, how the hell could someone create a faction? How?
Every big faction starts from a small faction, I believe Magnanimus and Mithril started as small faction didnt they? Oh yes, I believe they did. Small factions shouldnt be disbanded because if someone puts real effort to those small faction they will become real faction within the time

 

[wafflecash]

@Peter Harsk those factions were settled awhile ago and already exist. Wouldn't it make sense if the only new settlements were add-ons or a reincarnation of old factions. Also if they are a small factions and can defend themselves then they deserve to grow and will.

 

[GrunklePeter]

@Peter Harsk those factions were settled awhile ago and already exist. Wouldn't it make sense if the only new settlements were add-ons or a reincarnation of old factions. Also if they are a small factions and can defend themselves then they deserve to grow and will.

Click to shrink...

Well, that would remove the liberty for new players to create their faction And to join one of those faction, they need to be the best of the best and because most of those big PvP faction members are elitists, these new members couldnt get into one. I didnt understood the last sentence xD

 

[BenRekt]

Well, that would remove the liberty for new players to create their faction And to join one of those faction, they need to be the best of the best and because most of those big PvP faction members are elitists, these new members couldnt get into one. I didnt understood the last sentence xD

Click to shrink...

The last sentence agrees with what you said earlier - work hard and survive long enough to get to be a bigger faction.

 

[65jes89]

You're kidding, right? It's not changing the subject.

Okay, I know you're probably a bit bitter that you're not a staff member anymore, but I think it's affecting your logic.

Sincerely,
Tyler, King of Sass

Click to shrink...

Thank you, for being such a perfect example of why we need the offensive rating back.

 

[Ha5h]

This opens the door to kamikaze members. What if an enemy, on an alt, infiltrated their faction and willingly died multiple times to drain the faction bank? That's just a dirty war. Your comeback will probably be: "then dont recruit alts bruh"

How are we supposed to know which accounts are serious and which are fake? Do we just discriminate against new players and not recruit them for fear of them being alts? This is an interesting idea, but there are too many loopholes you didn't account for.

@Ha5h @BenAlex144

(On a sidenote, isn't it strange how staff only want to add to the faction and economy plugins if it involves taxes? They don't like to quote "interfere" with the economy unless it's to drain our bank accounts.)

Click to shrink...

I dont even know why I was tagged on this but obviously you have something against the staff of MassiveCraft. I would love you to tell that to the Direction Staff and have them give you their thoughts on that.

You're kidding, right? It's not changing the subject.

Okay, I know you're probably a bit bitter that you're not a staff member anymore, but I think it's affecting your logic.

Sincerely,
Tyler, King of Sass

Click to shrink...

Disrespecting a player by bringing that up is incredibly spiteful and I will not tolerate that behavior!

 

[wafflecash]

@Peter Harsk Here is what I mean, New players can create a new faction but if it is not planned out and well established then it deserves to be crushed into the ground. The only reason add ons to existing factions would work is because they have the protection of the old strong faction. Following what you said I doubt Mithril only takes high pvpers. There are many open large well made factions such as like I said Mithril, Valorian, etc.

 

[Ha5h]

This thread started off really great! Please don't let your emotions derail it. This is a place for ideas and solutions.

 

[GrunklePeter]

@Peter Harsk Here is what I mean, New players can create a new faction but if it is not planned out and well established then it deserves to be crushed into the ground. The only reason add ons to existing factions would work is because they have the protection of the old strong faction. Following what you said I doubt Mithril only takes high pvpers. There are many open large well made factions such as like I said Mithril, Valorian, etc.

Click to shrink...

I just said Mithril because it is a big faction, nothing against Mithril, because in fact Mithril is a RP faction (I think, sorry it Wrong) What I said only applies to those huge PvP faction, (Not saying names) because some of the members (Not saying names) in these factions are elitists And nos, I agree with you xD
@Ha5h
Sorry it that was for us ^^" (I dont think so, but respect is always pretty xD)

 

[BenRekt]

I just said Mithril because it is a big faction, nothing against Mithril, because in fact Mithril is a RP faction (I think, sorry it Wrong) What I said only applies to those huge PvP faction, (Not saying names) because some of the members (Not saying names) in these factions are elitists And nos, I agree with you xD
@Ha5h
Sorry it that was for us ^^" (I dont think so, but respect is always pretty xD)

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure both of you are being really respectful and polite and Ha5h is not talking about you guys.

 

[Jemsbe]

This is now the second time Ive had to sort out issues within this thread, people either need to offer legitimate thoughts on the feature suggested or this thread will result in being Locked. There is a couple of interesting thoughts floating around. Don't spoil it for the rest of people should others continue to flame or harass.

 

[GrunklePeter]

Pretty sure both of you are being really respectful and polite and Ha5h is not talking about you guys.

Click to shrink...

-Wipes his forehead-
Yeah, I knew it xD

 

[GrunklePeter]

Pretty sure both of you are being really respectful and polite and Ha5h is not talking about you guys.

Click to shrink...

-Wipes his forehead-
Yeah, I knew it xD

 

[wafflecash]

@Peter Harsk we are mostly elitists because our enjoyment depends on having a good team

 

[GrunklePeter]

@Peter Harsk we are mostly elitists because our enjoyment depends on having a good team

Click to shrink...

I know, but there is other kind of elitism going in PvP factions, not jur yours, but there are other big pvpers that really are elitists, not for that, bit because they seem to enjoy mocking the weaker ones.

 

[Alj23]

I know, but there is other kind of elitism going in PvP factions, not just yours, but there are other big pvpers that really are elitists, not for that, bit because they seem to enjoy mocking the weaker ones.

Click to shrink...

Ok, let me clarify a few things...

• You say that there are some pvp factions that declare themselves "elitist." I take it by that you mean some pvp factions, the ones you are reffering to, only take the best of the best, by your reasoning?
• Apparently some pvp factions mock the weaker ones?

I'm not 100% sure for the other side, but I know for a fact that Magnanimus, a large pvp faction, isn't of an elitist standard. Sure, we take raiding seriously, maybe more than others, but we surely don't deny people access to the faction for not being the best of the best. We have allowed numerous average level pvpers into the faction. When @Wannag joined, he wasn't the best, but he had potential due to all the fighting he was essentially forced to do in GranLaurona from enemies every day. When he joined Magnanimus, he had access to numerous facilities to train his mcmmo stats, as well as the brains to pick from of numerous long time pvpers in Magnanimus. As well as the opportunity to spar off against numerous pvpers of different skills levels in our arena, and then procede to learn more from there. I'm not sure about the other side, but Magnanimus has always offered our newest recruits that want to learn and have the will to learn everything they need to be able to, they just have to put in the work.

Magnanimus has never mocked weaker factions. On the contrary, we've offered to defend a lot of "weaker than us" factions, simply because they can't. Whether it be due to lack of skill, knowledge, or man power.

Just wanted to clear that up.