Pvp Behavior In Massivecraft

[Mecharic]

Enderpearls should be disabled and possibly a plugin for temporarily breaking down gates added in. And anyways about people calling themselves bandits, raiders or barbarians and using it as an excuse. Bandits were actually not much of a problem in Medieval times past the year 1000. (Aka actual medieval times) That's because the only person you can pretty much be guaranteed to kill is a unarmed peasant which whom if you have the skills and equipment to almost ensure a win is not worth fighting. The real problem is that people whenever they think of Medieval times think of Barbarians and raiders and bandits none of which were major at all when you entered the true middle ages, through many causes one of them which some PVP factions refuse to grasp is that no one likes assholes.

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See, this is a truth. And continuing this, the bandits that DID exist (like the Vikings people often claim to be) didn't besiege people. Something as simple as a wooden palisade could and would turn back most raiders or bandits. A stone wall in turn made it ten times harder to attack a settlement and a castle... well, no sane bandits would make an attempt on an actual castle and expect to survive. It was the traders and farmers and other such folks who lived outside the city walls who were at risk. Enderpearls make building walls useless except as decoration, domes are forbidden, and building an underground base kills the roleplay of having a town at all.

Walls are meant to impede the enemy, not stop them completely. If you want a "super" safe base just build something underground and connect it to the surface with a 1 way portal. Getting into bases should be more possible. What I am saying is that there should be a chance for raiders to knock down/open gates or doors as that is what would happen. To be truly safe someone should need to be well guarded and have a well planned out base, not just have a little box to hide in.

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How about they disable enderpearls and give raiders the ability to destroy wooden doors for a period of 30 minutes using an iron axe? Enderpearls make it impossible to defend oneself with mere walls because they can simply be hopped over, the fact that wooden doors and glass windows can hold out an enemy balances the ease of breaching walls.

In response to the Bold: Simply stated this is what I'm most scared of. Cities back in the medieval area weren't underground fortresses or uberplanned bases - they were a sprawling mess of streets, buildings, and military installments with minimal central planning. The only real planning that went into the city design was where the walls would be and how the main streets would interconnect (usually with a central square). They often had a castle nearby in such a manner as to allow people to flee into it. However, the walls alone would usually be enough to turn away most 'raiders' as they needed siege engines in order to breach them (or ladders, but that was risky if the defenders had archers).

What I want to state now is that people have forgotten just how HARD it was to raid a city. They were massive constructs with walls and towers and forts that couldn't be breached without proper siege equipment and a dedicated supply train and army. Raiding on Massivecraft is as easy as calling some friends over to your base, handing out a few enderpearls, and then finding the nearest active faction. In medieval times it was many times more difficult, expensive, and risky.

 

[Grixer]

This discussion is about the quality of player behavior, not game mechanics or actual history. Please try to stay on topic.

 

[Waminer]

Oh and also in your article, this gem.

it is uncertain whether Ragnar himself existed. Many of the tales told about him appear to originate with the deeds of a variety of historical Viking heroes and rulers.

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[Orenbus]

Before 1000 and hence it is still what most consider "The dark ages". As well Paris at that time had no walls. Its walls where the water around it, which also happened to be the Vikings highway. It was begging for a good ol' looting.

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Not sure if I agree with what you stated above.

Here is some more info:

Paris was surrounded by walls from ancient times until the twentieth century, except for roughly a century between 1670 (when Louis XIV ordered the demolition of the Louis XIII Wall) and 1785 (when construction began on the Farmers-General Wall).

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The First Medieval Wall

The existence of an enclosure around the centre of Paris, on the right bank, around the tenth century is probable. During recent research, the INRAP has discovered traces of this enclosure at the corner of rue de l'Arbre-Sec and rue de Rivoli.

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Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_walls_of_Paris


If you have any specific sources that contradict these or supplement your assertions would appreciate you posting them.

 

[Mecharic]

This discussion is about the quality of player behavior, not game mechanics or actual history. Please try to stay on topic.

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Right right. Quality of player behavior. Well, I suppose a truly dedicated RP bandit could raid a base for, say, 15 minutes or so then book it like a good bandit would. Or if the base has walls or a castle they could just leave in fear. So, who's up for leaving bases alone if they have walls? **silence, not even a cricket chirps** Let us be honest, the only surefire way to have roleplay even in raids is to alter the game mechanics to make it more realistic, or at least less easy to raid. I personally still like the idea of having a tax on a faction for the number of willing enemies it has (aka, if your relation setting is to be an enemy of someone it costs 10 silver a month or something but if someone else enemied you it would be 5s a month) so as to prevent stupid wars from lasting a long time.

 

[Owen_Kearno]

See, this is a truth. And continuing this, the bandits that DID exist (like the Vikings people often claim to be) didn't besiege people. Something as simple as a wooden palisade could and would turn back most raiders or bandits. A stone wall in turn made it ten times harder to attack a settlement and a castle... well, no sane bandits would make an attempt on an actual castle and expect to survive. It was the traders and farmers and other such folks who lived outside the city walls who were at risk. Enderpearls make building walls useless except as decoration, domes are forbidden, and building an underground base kills the roleplay of having a town at all.



How about they disable enderpearls and give raiders the ability to destroy wooden doors for a period of 30 minutes using an iron axe? Enderpearls make it impossible to defend oneself with mere walls because they can simply be hopped over, the fact that wooden doors and glass windows can hold out an enemy balances the ease of breaching walls.

In response to the Bold: Simply stated this is what I'm most scared of. Cities back in the medieval area weren't underground fortresses or uberplanned bases - they were a sprawling mess of streets, buildings, and military installments with minimal central planning. The only real planning that went into the city design was where the walls would be and how the main streets would interconnect (usually with a central square). They often had a castle nearby in such a manner as to allow people to flee into it. However, the walls alone would usually be enough to turn away most 'raiders' as they needed siege engines in order to breach them (or ladders, but that was risky if the defenders had archers).

What I want to state now is that people have forgotten just how HARD it was to raid a city. They were massive constructs with walls and towers and forts that couldn't be breached without proper siege equipment and a dedicated supply train and army. Raiding on Massivecraft is as easy as calling some friends over to your base, handing out a few enderpearls, and then finding the nearest active faction. In medieval times it was many times more difficult, expensive, and risky.

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You couldn't be more right and enderpearls need to go for RP and PvP reasons

 

[josephdm]

Upon reading this Today i saw a perfect example of what not to do, a Player by the name of Mrspychiken (revelation)decided to attack and kill a Member of Alamut for no reason atall, we have never even spoken to this player before, he was on his way to osai walking through ithania and had to go afk, when he returned he was dead by the hand of MrSpyChicken. As soon as i was informed we went to a higher rank and informed him of the situation. He then told MrSpyChciken he has a chance to pay a little compensation for his actions without the chance of anything happening to him, he refused and So we enemyed him.
Of corse we then procided to raid him killing evry one who was in his faction with No mercy. He brought this upon him self becasue he didn't think before he killed someone, We ofcorse gave him the terms of surrender They completed one demmand (global surrender) But have yet to pay tribute, max tribute i belive is 300+s we asked for 135, he lied to us telling us he had no money. Think before you act you never know who your messing with.

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I totally agree with your point. Some smaller factions refuse to pay tribute or even apologize. This results in the player instigating suffering something totally unneeded. Also I like your signature inception ftw.

 

[Waminer]

Well if the guy who supposedly attack Paris every existed please look at this.

Ragnar Lodbrok
Ragnar Lodbrok was a legendary Norse ruler and hero from the Viking Age who became known as the scourge of France and England and as the father of many renowned sons, including Ivar the Boneless, Björn Ironside, Halfdan Ragnarsson and Ubba. Wikipedia
Born: Scandinavia
Died: 865 AD<------
Full name: Ragnar Lodbrok
Parents: Sigurd Hring
Children: Ivar the Boneless, Björn Ironside

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The First Medieval Wall

The existence of an enclosure around the centre of Paris, on the right bank, around the tenth century is probable​

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Tenth century=900-999
Death of the man you use as an example whom may not have even existed; around 35 years before the earliest date the scrubs could have built a wall according to this however they would probably count that as 9th century as it is so close or say early 9th century so it is wore like the wall was built around 85 years after he died.
Sources: The exact same Wikipedia articles you use to prove your point and something called a brain. (It can read entire articles before calling someone wrong and stuff like that)

As well please look at the wall that was built around 250 years after yours with better knowledge of building and more resources along with the enemy they were built to stop being more powerful then the one your supposed one was built for.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the almighty wall of Paris!

This wall which is superior to yours is despite being well built is tiny. Hopefully they were defending against dwarves or people without access to stepladders. Yet see how this is still enough to prevent many attacks, that's because in the time you take to place a stepladder, the defenders have put an arrow into you. Fortifications should be hard, not easy to get through in Massive as look at how even this pathetic wall, built in to some of the buildings behind it kept away raiders, bandits, and vikings alike.

Condensed Points: 1.) Walls should be harder to go through in Massivecraft disable Enderpearls and enable the ability to open gates or something if a side controls them for enough time.

2.) Remember to check your facts scrub, and have a basic knowledge of history before debating it.

 

[OctoberGwen]

Right right. Quality of player behavior. Well, I suppose a truly dedicated RP bandit could raid a base for, say, 15 minutes or so then book it like a good bandit would. Or if the base has walls or a castle they could just leave in fear. So, who's up for leaving bases alone if they have walls? **silence, not even a cricket chirps** Let us be honest, the only surefire way to have roleplay even in raids is to alter the game mechanics to make it more realistic, or at least less easy to raid. I personally still like the idea of having a tax on a faction for the number of willing enemies it has (aka, if your relation setting is to be an enemy of someone it costs 10 silver a month or something but if someone else enemied you it would be 5s a month) so as to prevent stupid wars from lasting a long time.

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Except I cant get the leader of TheMafia to log on and neutral Osai. Whatever you did to him really pissed him off. He's been enemied to Osai since I joined the server I think.

 

[Mecharic]

Except I cant get the leader of TheMafia to log on and neutral Osai. Whatever you did to him really pissed him off. He's been enemied to Osai since I joined the server I think.

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You mean Josh_Pitchy? Honestly I don't think I ever did anything to piss him off.. I have the vague feeling he was a buddy of mine at some point :/

 

[OctoberGwen]

You mean Josh_Pitchy? Honestly I don't think I ever did anything to piss him off.. I have the vague feeling he was a buddy of mine at some point :/

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I havent a clue, we've been enemied for ages and ages and aaaages.

 

[Orenbus]

Remember to check your facts scrub, and have a basic knowledge of history before debating it.

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Really? This is how you debate? By posting an image of the Wall of Phillipe Augustus which has no bearing on the topic so that you can manipulate some creative licensing to try to defend your statement that there was no wall even though I've shown you at that you were wrong? You also seem to think that the period of the medieval age started at 1000 AD which is not accurate and you have not proven that to be accurate. Now this may just be a misunderstanding on your part, I will concede that the time post the fall of the Roman Empire is the Dark Ages if you will concede that this is also known to be the Early Medieval Period, because in both cases they are correct and because they are it does not lessen my argument that this time period should still be relative as matching the spirit of the server as a guideline to the Medieval time in which we role play.

If you are going to make statements provide sources and not just your creative license for justification to back up your statements. I wish people would really try their best to learn how to debate and make an honest debate about topics instead of failing and then resorting to name calling to reinforce arguments that hold no merit and again failing to persuade. It's really not that difficult if you are honest about your intentions.

The Vikings arrived in Paris on 24[14][15] or 25[16] November 885, initially asking for tribute from the Franks. When this was denied, they began a siege. On 26 November the Danes attacked the northeast tower with ballistae, mangonels, and catapults. They were repulsed by a mixture of hot wax and pitch. All Viking attacks that day were repulsed, and during the night the Parisians constructed another storey on the tower.[16][17] On 27 November the Viking attack included mining, battering rams, and fire, but to no avail. Bishop Gozlin entered the fray with a bow and an axe. He planted a cross on the outer defences and exhorted the people. His brother Ebles also joined the fighting.[16] The Vikings withdrew after the failed initial attacks and built a camp on the right side of the river bank, using stone as construction material. While preparing for new attacks, the Vikings also started constructing additional siege engines.[18] In a renewed assault, they shot a thousand grenades against the city, sent a ship for the bridge, and made a land attack with three groups. The forces surrounded the bridgehead tower, possibly mainly aiming to bring down the river obstacle. While they tried setting fire to the bridge, they also attacked the city itself with siege engines.[18]

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(885–86)

 

[Mecharic]

Orenbus, Waminer, does it actually freaking matter? I personally couldn't care less if the vikings were raiding villages all the way up to WW1, the fact remains that most bandits and raiders would see a wall, even a simple wooden one, and promptly pillage everything OUTSIDE the walls without ever making an attempt on the walls themselves. Bandits, Vikings, even small raiding parties didn't go to a town to lay siege to it, they went to the town to burn, pillage, kill livestock, then run before the actual military or town militia was organized enough to retaliate and kill the lot of them. Bandits and Raiders were, for the most part, the scum of society who knew how to use a weapon but never achieved mastery of it because that wasn't the purpose of their raids. They also didn't last long in the world unless they were always fleeing the military of the last city, town, or nation they had harmed. Barbarians as we know them ceased to exist by the time the Renaissance hit Europe since, well, they weren't cut out for long term survival against cities and unified militarizes. Rome fell not because Barbarians were better but because Rome was already on the verge of collapse when the Barbarians showed up.

Any true "Barbarian" raiders would only sack a town for about 15-20 minutes and would demand nothing from the town except the loot they steal from the dead.

Any true "Viking" raiders would only sack a town that lacked walls and was a coastal settlement without towers or major defenses. They would only raid for about 15-20 minutes and, like Barbarian Raiders, they wouldn't demand anything except the loot stolen from the dead.

Any true "Bandit" raiders would only sack a town with, at best, a wooden palisade wall with the gate OPEN. They would get in and get out, taking no longer then the Viking or Barbarian Raiders and demanding nothing more then the loot they gather.

The only entities capable of cracking through a city wall or a town palisade were rival nations or city states that had fairly large militaries, siege equipment, and could field a large supply train to feed these forces through a month or even year long siege of a town or city. Something 9thLegion or Alamut could field such an army but a small bandit faction like the one BornaSepic or McMuffin lead simply could not take on a walled city or town. It is solely the fact that enderpearls exist that makes walls so easily breached and it is MCmmo that makes it so easy for even a lone raider, who would never attack anything more then a lone trading wagon at best, to attack an entire city. If people want to roleplay as bandits or vikings or barbarian raiders then they should understand the basic facts behind them and not fight like a one man army. As such, true RP-raiders should really cease to attack cities and walled towns in the sheer spirit of roleplay alone.

 

[Overlordqwerty]

So is massivecraft set in the early or late medieval period? Because that would affect how many factions could legitimately say they are a city state/town/county/whatever big enough to have an army that could lay siege or take over another city state/town/county/whatever for a long enough time to demand tribute rather then just raiding for short amounts of time.

 

[Orenbus]

So is massivecraft set in the early or late medieval period? Because that would affect how many factions could legitimately say they are a city state/town/county/whatever big enough to have an army that could lay siege or take over another city state/town/county/whatever for a long enough time to demand tribute rather then just raiding for short amounts of time.

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It's a good question, but regardless of all the above arguments, in the end I don't think it really matters, we have Elves, Vampires, Werewolves and Fairies or whatever in our universe for pete's sake.

 

[Overlordqwerty]

It's a good question, but regardless of all the above arguments, in the end I don't think it really matters, we have Elves, Vampires, Werewolves and Fairies or whatever in our universe for pete's sake.

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RP - As an knowledgeable elf I like to know what the latest advancements in technology and fighting tactics are.

Non-RP - Your kinda right but still, there was a difference between just after the fall of Rome and the battles of 1066, which was different again from the time just before the age of enlightenment.

 

[Mecharic]

I do not believe that any being short of a god-like entity (aka, Mrs. Baver) should be able to conquer an entire town/city with ease, not in any valid roleplay sense. Now, I know that my faction Hisoka is nothing compared to the might of Regalia, but it should still count as a small town (80+ people = medium town IMHO) and at the times it was raided most we had almost 100 folks (large town IMHO) being beaten by a mere 1 or 2 people from a faction with less then 10 members overall (barely an outpost or bandit camp). This just makes no logical RP sense, especially considering that we had a massive fortress, large town, well built wall, and a number of fortifications that could have/should have turned back the average raider in Medieval times.

 

[Thoriik]

Making a post in this thread was difficult. Thinking up what I wanted to express and how I wanted to express it was not an easy thing. The following is my best effort.

I don't enjoy raids. I don't enjoy raiding. I enjoy friendly pvp, the sort of pvp where each side agrees to return taken items and both sides acknowledge that this is for the purpose of enjoyable combat rather then to demand tribute or surrender. I enjoy that kind of pvp because no one loses anything especially important. It's something both sides can enjoy because both sides are in agreement about when the raids take place, what the goals of the raids are, and what the purpose of the entire war is. I would be more then willing to accept a war from someone if we had set rules and agreements prior to the war itself, if both sides were participating for the purpose of enjoyment and mutual assistance.

The problem is that not once have I ever been raided in such a manner as to have both sides enjoy it. Every single raid on Hisoka I have ever experienced has been a serious raid with no enjoyment involved. The raiders weren't raiding to help Hisoka find its weak points or to allow my members to participate in enjoyable combat. They were raiding for loot, for silver, for surrender. The majority of these raiders didn't offer terms of surrender until I contacted them and demanded terms of surrender. None of them had a decent RP excuse for the raid (the closest to a decent rp excuse was McMuffins "I'm a Bandit looking for loot and silver!" RP). These people have caused the construction of the Hisoka Treedome, something I never wanted to make. These people have driven new members of massivecraft off the server by raiding Hisoka for multiple days in a row. These people have pissed me off and turned me off to raids and pvp in general.

My initial response to Grixers post was to agree with it completely (which I still do) and to support it. However, I have the nagging feeling that despite all the goodwill in this thread Alamut will still raid Deathfist without any RP reason. That Hisoka will still end up being raided by assholes who just want to kill people. That Osai will still be pillaged by trolls and raid-for-lulz people. I want to believe that people will take Grixers post and guidelines to heart but I am honestly very skeptical about it.

I do not hate people who enjoy pvp, I just dislike the fact that they can't accept that this is a game and that people may not want to fight the same way they do, or that people don't have the time to become gods of mcmmo to equal them. I know that I lack the motivation to fight because I dislike it. I know that plenty of people prefer Roleplaying to Darkrooming. I know that many people have jobs irl and simply don't have the raw downtime to become a god of mcmmo. If mcmmo gods want to pvp then they should all hop in an arena and go all out against each other, winner take all style freeforfall match. A battle of gods. Leave people who just want to build or roleplay out of your war games.

That, really, is my final word: Leave people who don't want to fight out of your combat games.

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I do actualy understand you, but you must see the point, war between us woulndn't happen if your members didn't cause it, I accept that this is a game, when did you last time saw me crying about stuff, you didn't.. When I die, In my heart, i'm full of rage, but I'm trying to destroy that rage.. Honestly, I do understand you.. but we can't change the server.

 

[Jomdorr]

I do actualy understand you, but you must see the point, war between us woulndn't happen if your members didn't cause it, I accept that this is a game, when did you last time saw me crying about stuff, you didn't.. When I die, In my heart, i'm full of rage, but I'm trying to destroy that rage.. Honestly, I do understand you.. but we can't change the server.

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Not with that attitude we can't, I believe it possible

 

[Mecharic]

I do actualy understand you, but you must see the point, war between us woulndn't happen if your members didn't cause it, I accept that this is a game, when did you last time saw me crying about stuff, you didn't.. When I die, In my heart, i'm full of rage, but I'm trying to destroy that rage.. Honestly, I do understand you.. but we can't change the server.

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Of course we can. We ARE the server. That is the quitters way out. If 9thLegion was to create a set of rules and then make it their goal to enforce them over the entire server, like an actual government, they could forcibly alter the actual, IG gameplay of the server to suit their rules. Any faction or group of factions with enough powerful pvpers could do so. They would, through warnings and then raids, enforce the rules they have agreed to. If someone broke those rules they would be at war with these powerful factions until the rules were abided by. Just because we are mere players on massivecraft doesn't mean we have no power the change the overall nature of the server.

As for the cause of the war between us, let us agree to disagree. I will forever believe it to be the fault of Lizmans brother who was a member of your faction and insulted, harassed, and disrupted my faction. You will always blame my officer for enemying you to kill Lizmans brother. It really doesn't matter anymore because the war is over and the only way it will start again is if you declare war on me.

 

[Grailen]

Of course we can. We ARE the server. That is the quitters way out. If 9thLegion was to create a set of rules and then make it their goal to enforce them over the entire server, like an actual government, they could forcibly alter the actual, IG gameplay of the server to suit their rules. Any faction or group of factions with enough powerful pvpers could do so. They would, through warnings and then raids, enforce the rules they have agreed to. If someone broke those rules they would be at war with these powerful factions until the rules were abided by. Just because we are mere players on massivecraft doesn't mean we have no power the change the overall nature of the server.

As for the cause of the war between us, let us agree to disagree. I will forever believe it to be the fault of Lizmans brother who was a member of your faction and insulted, harassed, and disrupted my faction. You will always blame my officer for enemying you to kill Lizmans brother. It really doesn't matter anymore because the war is over and the only way it will start again is if you declare war on me.

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Yeah... Not true if you recall during the Imperials we tried to implement a tax system via force and the mods shut it down. So even if you did try to alter rules through military force it's the staff that has the true control.

 

[Mecharic]

Yeah... Not true if you recall during the Imperials we tried to implement a tax system via force and the mods shut it down. So even if you did try to alter rules through military force it's the staff that has the true control.

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Ah, if it isn't Mr. Ray of Sunlight himself! The admins, I feel, overstepped their bounds a little (though in your case I can understand it, forcing people to pay you is different then forcing people to abide by generally accepted rules). Thing is, factions already do what I described (EX: The Coalition - destroyed Imperials and Solaris because they didn't like the methods [or people] involved). The simple truth of the matter is that it IS possible to do this, it HAS been done, but no one has ever tried it on a server-wide scale before. Just focusing on the largest perceived problem rather then the root of the issue.

 

[Cowboys1919]

Yeah... Not true if you recall during the Imperials we tried to implement a tax system via force and the mods shut it down. So even if you did try to alter rules through military force it's the staff that has the true control.

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Well, I think the point of this thread hopes to altar that... that interference with politics. Grixers post is basically saying don't get the moderators involved, as it just ruins the authenticity.

 

[Grailen]

Ah, if it isn't Mr. Ray of Sunlight himself! The admins, I feel, overstepped their bounds a little (though in your case I can understand it, forcing people to pay you is different then forcing people to abide by generally accepted rules). Thing is, factions already do what I described (EX: The Coalition - destroyed Imperials and Solaris because they didn't like the methods [or people] involved). The simple truth of the matter is that it IS possible to do this, it HAS been done, but no one has ever tried it on a server-wide scale before. Just focusing on the largest perceived problem rather then the root of the issue.

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Alright for one the coalition was backed by the staff (Wolfram made several visits during raids to try and stop us never succeeding.) but my point is the reason they won is the opposite of the point your trying to make it wasn't that they had the force to accomplish their goals it was that they had the support of the staff and the policy's made by them were enforced by the server and not by their own force.

 

[Mecharic]

I'm pretty sure those states just dissolved due to lack of a central lead. The one I know more about, Solaris, was a sort-of confederacy where both factions were independent of each other but came together to accomplish tasks / defend.

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As a former Solaris member I know that the primary reason I left was the endless raids on my fairly defenseless faction (after all, why attack Alamut's fortress when you can raid Hisoka's town? lol). It may have been leadership issues but I feel that for the non-pvp factions it was actual threat of raids. I don't know about the Imperials, as I was part of the Coalition during that war.

 

[Cowboys1919]

(EX: The Coalition - destroyed Imperials and Solaris ...).

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I'm pretty sure those states just dissolved due to lack of a central lead. The one I know more about, Solaris, was a sort-of confederacy where both factions were independent of each other but came together to accomplish tasks / defend.

 

[Mecharic]

Alright for one the coalition was backed by the staff (Wolfram made several visits during raids to try and stop us never succeeding.) but my point is the reason they won is the opposite of the point your trying to make it wasn't that they had the force to accomplish their goals it was that they had the support of the staff and the policy's made by them were enforced by the server and not by their own force.

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The statement you have made is BS. The Coalition kicked Imperial and Insurrection arse, and you know it. Staff or not they won, and they won repeatedly. I do not believe that the only way to govern or control the population of Massivecraft is with staff intervention. Yes, the Coalition had staff involved, but I personally never saw anything wrong with staff participating in server events as players.

 

[Grailen]

The statement you have made is BS. The Coalition kicked Imperial and Insurrection arse, and you know it. Staff or not they won, and they won repeatedly. I do not believe that the only way to govern or control the population of Massivecraft is with staff intervention. Yes, the Coalition had staff involved, but I personally never saw anything wrong with staff participating in server events as players.

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On the battle field (Which you were never at might I add) The imperials utterly slaughtered the Coalition In Zion,Osai,9thlegion,Zion again.. ect

 

[Mecharic]

On the battle field (Which you were never at might I add) The imperials utterly slaughtered the Coalition In Zion,Osai,9thlegion,Zion again.. ect

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Considering that every time Solaris came the defense of Hisoka (and I thank you for the effort) you lost utterly... I find it hard to believe that you could be so powerful. Then again, Osai is peaceful I believe, and Zion isn't exactly a pvp factory itself. Kudos on 9thLegion though.

 

[Cowboys1919]

Everything is disputable. But this isn't the thread for that. Everyone should discontinue the Coalition vs Anyone stuff.

 

[McMuffin55]

The statement you have made is BS. The Coalition kicked Imperial and Insurrection arse, and you know it. Staff or not they won, and they won repeatedly. I do not believe that the only way to govern or control the population of Massivecraft is with staff intervention. Yes, the Coalition had staff involved, but I personally never saw anything wrong with staff participating in server events as players.

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Coalition never truly had any effect on either the Imperial's or Insurrection. The Imperial's were on the way to victory until a leading officer basically gave up on the whole idea. And regarding the Insurrection, the Coalition wasn't ever really involved.

 

[Grailen]

Considering that every time Solaris came the defense of Hisoka (and I thank you for the effort) you lost utterly... I find it hard to believe that you could be so powerful. Then again, Osai is peaceful I believe, and Zion isn't exactly a pvp factory itself. Kudos on 9thLegion though.

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Cowboys is right but I'll make one point here The coalition (nor any of its supporting factions) were nowhere near as powerful as Magnanimous was during the Solaris insurrection.

 

[Mecharic]

Very well. I still feel that a group of powerful and overall "good" factions could enforce the laws across all Aloria if they actually put the effort into it. Since there will always be people who need protection from unruly raiders it would be an easy and acceptable outlet for pvpgods to, well, hack-n-slash. It would enhance roleplay and allow admins to move to more important tasks like server events rather then solving every little dispute that two factions have. Such an organization would also greatly enhance the priestage of any faction that is a member while also advertizing them as a powerful driving force of massivecraft. The smaller factions wouldn't need to focus on PVP so much and these defender factions would be able to fight to their hearts content. It would also help with faction relations for these larger factions, gaining them friends among the up-and-coming younger factions.

 

[Grailen]

Very well. I still feel that a group of powerful and overall "good" factions could enforce the laws across all Aloria if they actually put the effort into it. Since there will always be people who need protection from unruly raiders it would be an easy and acceptable outlet for pvpgods to, well, hack-n-slash. It would enhance roleplay and allow admins to move to more important tasks like server events rather then solving every little dispute that two factions have. Such an organization would also greatly enhance the priestage of any faction that is a member while also advertizing them as a powerful driving force of massivecraft. The smaller factions wouldn't need to focus on PVP so much and these defender factions would be able to fight to their hearts content. It would also help with faction relations for these larger factions, gaining them friends among the up-and-coming younger factions.

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This I can agree with it was just your first example was very ...Wrong.

 

[Mecharic]

Cowboys is right but I'll make one point here The coalition (nor any of its supporting factions) were nowhere near as powerful as Magnanimous was during the Solaris insurrection.

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I'll definitely give you that... Magnanimous (god that freaking name) still gives me shivers sometimes lol. But imagine a whole group of factions as powerful as Magna but enforcing the rules agreed upon by many people. Would that really not be enough to control upstart factions who abuse RP to justify raiding?

 

[Grailen]

I'll definitely give you that... Magnanimous (god that freaking name) still gives me shivers sometimes lol. But imagine a whole group of factions as powerful as Magna but enforcing the rules agreed upon by many people. Would that really not be enough to control upstart factions who abuse RP to justify raiding?

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Yes but the problem with that is these rouge factions could still do hit and runs and then hide in unraidable little hole in the grounds.

 

[Bsavs]

This discussion is about the quality of player behavior, not game mechanics or actual history. Please try to stay on topic.

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Grailen and Mecharic, I will be as blunt as possible to make my point. No one gives a damn about the past so stop flaming on a thread that is both well written and with good intentions.

This post is about the future of pvp, not the past.

 

[Mecharic]

Yes but the problem with that is these rouge factions could still do hit and runs and then hide in unraidable little hole in the grounds.

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That's not a problem at all though! Hit and run raids were common all through human history, the only thing this conglomerate of factions in meant to do is prevent 1 random MCmmo god from raiding a faction for an hour. A hit and run raid with 2-5 people is well within the limits and logic of Roleplay bandits. A larger force of 20-50 people could tackle even a large city like what Deathfist is making or what Osai or Helvitica posses. The Conglomerate of Roleplay (lulz) would prevent long-lasting raids by individuals without interfering directly with the ability to roleplay as a bandit or viking raider.

Bsavs - We have already settled it. I think.

 

[Thoriik]

Yes but the problem with that is these rouge factions could still do hit and runs and then hide in unraidable little hole in the grounds.

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I know when all of those factions actualy were 1, then things happened between FHFdoom and Macdaddy, many followed MACdaddy to magnanimus and forced the war.. From my side, I only helped them because I thought I know them, and now, it is totally different, I became ''3'' side in this Solaris war.. and believe me, I want to get out.. But there is no other way then surrender, so I wont do it.

 

[Shayin]

When attackers come, I hide in a small underground garden and sing with friends and family. Not need for swords, axes, and bows, nor explosions and fires. I've got flowers.