Player Economy Survey!

While I respect and appreciate the complexity of the Massive economy and the staff's implied obligation to regulate its fluctuations, simply raising the vote reward, in my opinion, does not help the server in a lasting manner. While it does support those who depend on regals for faction upkeep or rental costs, allowing a mindless activity (voting), to occupy such a meaningful portion of server-wide incoming regals would seem to mitigate much real economic incentive. Rather than complaining about the new challenges facing us, players should welcome the opportunity to play this game in a different way than they had previously, expanding horizons and such and finding other ways to supplement their monetary needs, or adjusting their standard of Massive living. Regal handouts are not the answer. Voting is, of course, important and the 3r reward seemed to provide fitting recompense without totally encompassing one's income. Now, with such easy and substantial income provided at such little effort, I worry that there will be negative consequences in the long run, with regals ultimately devalued, along with goods and services.
Edit: I would clarify to say that while simply allowing basically free regals into the economy would not be productive, if a staff response is absolutely necessary lessening various money sinks around the server could be a helpful means of economic stabilization, as it aids those struggling financially while still maintaining the integrity of the regal as a valued currency.
 
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dominion360 said:
While I respect and appreciate the complexity of the Massive economy and the staff's implied obligation to regulate its fluctuations, simply raising the vote reward, in my opinion, does not help the server in a lasting manner. While it does support those who depend on regals for faction upkeep or rental costs, allowing a mindless activity (voting), to occupy such a meaningful portion of server-wide incoming regals would seem to mitigate much real economic incentive. Rather than complaining about the new challenges facing us, players should welcome the opportunity to play this game in a different way than they had previously, expanding horizons and such and finding other ways to supplement their monetary needs, or adjusting their standard of Massive living. Regal handouts are not the answer. Voting is, of course, important and the 3r reward seemed to provide fitting recompense without totally encompassing one's income. Now, with such easy and substantial income provided at such little effort, I worry that there will be negative consequences in the long run, with regals ultimately devalued, along with goods and services.
Edit: I would clarify to say that while simply allowing basically free regals into the economy would not be productive, if a staff response is absolutely necessary lessening various money sinks around the server could be a helpful means of economic stabilization, as it aids those struggling financially while still maintaining the integrity of the regal as a valued currency.
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Feel free to suggest an alternate way to make money. We're all complaining because literally everything we own is at stake here. I.e. Vault factions have to pay tax just the same as others, and if someone can't pay it because they don't have enough money, everything they own gets disbanded and lost.
 
Aespair said:
Feel free to suggest an alternate way to make money. We're all complaining because literally everything we own is at stake here. I.e. Vault factions have to pay tax just the same as others, and if someone can't pay it because they don't have enough money, everything they own gets disbanded and lost.
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I would encourage you, and players of like mind, to stop asking others for ways to supplement incomes and instead focus on how you, as an individual player, can contribute to the economy of the server in a way that would be profitable. Rather than insisting that regals be made available to pay for "vault factions", perhaps sell off some of the items in said vault to pay for its upkeep. Analyze your own talents and abilities and figure out your own way to be successful, whether it be through trade, DRing, lore, art, or anything you can come up with. This server is part of a game, and a roleplay experience, but you must still keep realistic expectations about the nature of its economic flow. Just because regals aren't as immediately available to you does not mean that there are not valid avenues for their acquisition within your ability- they just might require a little more personal effort.
 
dominion360 said:
Analyze your own talents and abilities and figure out your own way to be successful, whether it be through trade, DRing, lore, art, or anything you can come up with.
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you know
not anyone is gifted with talent, and for those people Darkrooming is often the only way besides voting to get regals.
I'm one of those ungifted people, and i sure as hell do not want to spent my valuable play time mindlessly clicking in a dark room to get regals.
No thank you very much sir.
 
dominion360 said:
I would encourage you, and players of like mind, to stop asking others for ways to supplement incomes and instead focus on how you, as an individual player, can contribute to the economy of the server in a way that would be profitable. Rather than insisting that regals be made available to pay for "vault factions", perhaps sell off some of the items in said vault to pay for its upkeep. Analyze your own talents and abilities and figure out your own way to be successful, whether it be through trade, DRing, lore, art, or anything you can come up with. This server is part of a game, and a roleplay experience, but you must still keep realistic expectations about the nature of its economic flow. Just because regals aren't as immediately available to you does not mean that there are not valid avenues for their acquisition within your ability- they just might require a little more personal effort.
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I DR all the time and almost never vote. I was just suggesting that it could be an alternate way for rpers to get cash, since they can't really charge people for rping with them lol
 
An important thing to remember is that a lot of people do this as a fun little activity. Not everyone wants to invest hours of grinding for minimal playtime. Some people may enjoy it and that's fine, but you have RPers who only can get on the server one hour a day and then get a majority of their time on the weekend, they probably don't want to spend that time grinding away and coming up with ways to make money to make ends meet. That's why the vote income was probably raised, so that people get to spend their time doing what they enjoy. The voting is now enough to rent in Regalia and have a faction for storage. That being said the vote increase was a nice addition.
 
Wumpatron said:
An important thing to remember is that a lot of people do this as a fun little activity. Not everyone wants to invest hours of grinding for minimal playtime. Some people may enjoy it and that's fine, but you have RPers who only can get on the server one hour a day and then get a majority of their time on the weekend, they probably don't want to spend that time grinding away and coming up with ways to make money to make ends meet. That's why the vote income was probably raised, so that people get to spend their time doing what they enjoy. The voting is now enough to rent in Regalia and have a faction for storage. That being said the vote increase was a nice addition.
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Perhaps I haven't been clear; by enabling players to simply rent houses and maintain storage factions from simply voting- an action that, while indirectly helpful over time, does not provide immediate stimulation to the economy- the regal itself is devalued, as properties are purchased and land is claimed without any real economic return enacted. I understand that it is far more convenient to simply vote regals into your account in terms of time spent and effort applied, and there will most likely be little to no obvious effect on the economy initially, but over time I expect to see devaluation of the regal and of the goods and services it can afford as well as far reaching intangible consequences. In the previous system, the regals introduced into the economy from voting were not in great enough quantity to offer destabilization, as trade and DRing and other financial endeavors balanced this inclusion. Now, players who work through ingame methods to get their regals will eventually see that work rendered meaningless as any player can obtain significant levels of currency through doing nothing except voting. If every player has lots of regals, what are they worth anyway?
 
I darkroom, run a shop, own properties, and own a small faction. The last week was definitely hard on me, because a lot of RPers started to save money, which meant I wan't getting income, so I was in the negative. With the new vote change, I am able to keep in the positive, which many of us dearly needed. I know that darkrooming and selling items should be the go to place to make money. But I can be glad that I get a bit more from my daily vote.

The way I see it, adding 10r/vote was the best way to help people with the loss of the premium funds. Before, not many people would consider voting. This means we don't get noticed as much, meaning less people find the server, meaning less growth, meaning less moolah. By making each vote pay for more Regals, more people will want to vote to get the money. They're happy, and the server gets more attention from the outside.

I agree, the vote reward might be a bit more than it should be. But things can change in the long run. Maybe the 10r/vote is only a temporary change to just give players some extra cash to fall back on until a more solid change is implemented. Maybe it's permanent. Not many call tell for certain. For me, I'll enjoy getting a little more from doing what I already do daily. And that's vote.
 
Let me reinstate what I said. Some people only play once a week. Not everyone is constantly active and grinding away. Some people get on for the one weekend, enjoy it, and wait until next week. No where in there did I mention the regals value or the economy. I am only referring to the individuals who don't have the time to grind out just to have a good time.

I can also add the incentive voting allows for and the possibility of player increase which is very good for a server.
 
In the start of the thread people were saying that the faction taxation should be removed.
I find it to sound like a brilliant idea! I never really liked constantly checking if I have enough money to pay the next tax. And it's especially annoying if you're just a casual player who plays on weekend and the tax is just sucking your money away.
And with this change I would love if the other old systems came back, like: The cost of creating a faction!
Back then, it cost 2000 regals to create a faction, which meant you actually had to save up money it wasn't just a tiny amount and then you had yourself a faction.
And it would also decrease the amount of factions in a world! If you go on Dynmap theres just so many factions. And most of them are only 1-5 chunks big...
No hate pls :D
 
chinalad said:
In the start of the thread people were saying that the faction taxation should be removed.
I find it to sound like a brilliant idea! I never really liked constantly checking if I have enough money to pay the next tax. And it's especially annoying if you're just a casual player who plays on weekend and the tax is just sucking your money away.
And with this change I would love if the other old systems came back, like: The cost of creating a faction!
Back then, it cost 2000 regals to create a faction, which meant you actually had to save up money it wasn't just a tiny amount and then you had yourself a faction.
And it would also decrease the amount of factions in a world! If you go on Dynmap theres just so many factions. And most of them are only 1-5 chunks big...
No hate pls :D
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(you wouldn't get kicked from your current faction if you cannot pay your tax and you also stop paying taxes after 3 days not coming online as far as I am aware)
 
chinalad said:
In the start of the thread people were saying that the faction taxation should be removed.
I find it to sound like a brilliant idea! I never really liked constantly checking if I have enough money to pay the next tax. And it's especially annoying if you're just a casual player who plays on weekend and the tax is just sucking your money away.
And with this change I would love if the other old systems came back, like: The cost of creating a faction!
Back then, it cost 2000 regals to create a faction, which meant you actually had to save up money it wasn't just a tiny amount and then you had yourself a faction.
And it would also decrease the amount of factions in a world! If you go on Dynmap theres just so many factions. And most of them are only 1-5 chunks big...
No hate pls :D
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Faction Tax even at its Maximum is 10r a day, which is extremely easy to get, even if you are a 'casual player' who just uses /vote every so often, and if you are a faction leader who has massive claims, you should have a large member base that you tax to you can survive. If you can't afford that tax, reduce your claims, or just ask everyone in your faction to Darkroom.

I believe that if your faction has a high tax, that everyone should have the mentality of 'We're all in this together' and pay the high tax, or risk losing all the land, which has been built on idealy, so that your leader doesn't have to work his ass off to get tax by himself.
 
Oblivaify said:
Faction Tax even at its Maximum is 10r a day, which is extremely easy to get, even if you are a 'casual player' who just uses /vote every so often, and if you are a faction leader who has massive claims, you should have a large member base that you tax to you can survive. If you can't afford that tax, reduce your claims, or just ask everyone in your faction to Darkroom.

I believe that if your faction has a high tax, that everyone should have the mentality of 'We're all in this together' and pay the high tax, or risk losing all the land, which has been built on idealy, so that your leader doesn't have to work his ass off to get tax by himself.
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While I agree with what you say, I still would really like if there was no taxation and just a high cost of creating a faction.
btw Im super poor and if people offer me 5r for free I jump with joy :D and the reason I dont /vote a lot is because my compute sucks so much that having Minecraft open takes literally all me computers power ;-;
 
Ever since faction taxes was implemented, I have been strugelling to stay alive. The economy has never realy been a very helpfull way for me either. I am a builder. A very dedicated builder as it basically is all that I do. I love building. And gathering materials for my builds is also something I can enjoy. And enjoying the things you do here is whats the point of playing on the server in the first place.

Earning money should be something we should enjoy doing. We have become ever more dependant on money. And obtaining money is not the easiest thing on this server. YES! I do not ignore the fact that we can get 10r a day for each voting site. But I cannot say I enjoy voting for my money. And it should definatly not be the only easy way out there.

I am not that familiar with the economy. And thus I am not aware on what goes for sale and what does not. Neither do I know for how much. Right now all I see when talking about the economy, are "god" items, lore items, and diamonds. That's basically all I hear these days. So I am kind of wondering... what happend to everything else? clay, quartz, wood, stone, sand. Is anyone running a busness in these things? Since I basically don't hear about it I kind of asume that there isn't realy a market for them. And with good reason.

As a builder, I wouldn't want to pay for all the materials I needed. But why is that I ask myself. It will save me allot of time to just buy those supplies. And then I can do whatever I like all the time. One of the problems is that I need that money already. It goes into a sink from which I don't realy get much back. No wait... It prevents all that I build from dissapearing overnight x3. So right now I need materials for my builds and I cannot buy materials as I need money to keep those buildings from dissapearing.

Materials Probably don't cost much. If a diamond costs one regal... how much is a double chest of oak log worth? Since we have easy access to most basic resources I'd say... you probably be paying more for the effort that someone puts into ontaining it, than that your paying for the resources. In other words. These resources have almost no value. And so no one would realy make a fortune of selling them. If I had more access to money however... I think this would change.

Lets say taxes cost the same as they do now. But now you only have to pay weekly. (so 50r a day would be 50r a week) I would have allot of spare money now. I can use this money to actualy invest in other things such as resource to build. /fix to repair my tools. Infact. Because other builders will also have more money to spend. They may also start buying resources again to save time. Making oak a profitable resource to sell again. And so sparking lumber men to start massively producing and selling again.

Now I won't say this is strictly towards just building resources. But this counts for all resources in general. We now have 10r for each vote. This basically fixes the loss of our premium money well. But it does not fix the economy, as it was already in bad shape. I think we need either another means to obtain money, or reduce the ammount of money being extracted from the economy.

edit:
I almost forgot but let us ephasize on doing those things that we enjoy. And let those things be profitable for everyone. So you don't have to waste allot of time to do things you don't like just to eventually be able to do the things you do like.
 
You can make some profit with wood logs. There is a whole shop dedicated to wood logs at /tp market. The prices for a stack of logs range from 2r - 5r . In the worst case you make 108r with a double chest full of logs, best probably around 270r. If you buy any material cheaper than you resell it, you could get the materials for yourself together and make even some profit on the side, while concentrating on what you like: building.
Problem (which was addressed by me earlier) is the rent of a market stall, which is 300r - 2000r for different sized shops at the moment. So if you use some of the bought materials yourself, you would need to make at least 300r per month to actually afford the market stall at /tp market. That's at least 3 double chests of wood logs you don't just need to gather, but also sell to other people.
I assume these high prices for market stalls are the reason why most of the stalls are empty. Not many new shops show up either, or they don't last for long. Thus my suggestion is to half the rent price for market stalls to boost economy and get more people buying and selling again.
 
Sephite said:
That's at least 3 double chests of wood logs you don't just need to gather, but also sell to other people.
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Thats the ammount of work it costs without it giving you what you actualy want. I think we can all agree that thats allot of work that in the end just vanishes from the sellers perspective. Its litteraly just wasted effort that didnt realy gain him anything els than keeping his shop for the next month. Worst part of it is that the seller can't even afford anything else when doing this much work. And we almost forgot the cost of the tools needed to gather that wood.

Btw I agree on your point about reducing rental prices, both for shops and homes. But my point is besides that.
We have to put so much effort into things we don't like to get what we do like.

Right now I stopped gathering resources. I know its comming... Il eventualy have to go out there and gather new resources so I can continue build. And Il need /fix to repair my tools in order to do that. But I have no money to afford that. All my vote money goes into faction upkeep. Even when having set my taxes properly. I still miss out. I basicaly have no income of exp for anvil repair, and not enough skill for mcmmo repair.

The more time that I will have to invest into area's that I do not like the less il enjoy my time here at massive. And that is something we should avoid for everyone. I think that with my approuch mentioned in my previous post we can fix this. And find better ways for everyone's benefit.
 
Arvallon said:
And Il need /fix to repair my tools in order to do that. But I have no money to afford that...
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The idea behind /fix and it costing regals now was that you only use it in emergencies or for lore items. You can fix an enchanted diamond axe with a normal diamond axe on an anvil for a few exp level (first time about 2-3 level). When gathering materials you should still get experience (also for smelting ores you get some experience) and if that all is still too much then I suggest you breed animals, as you get an exp-glowball everytime when breeding them. If the animal farm is big enough you can make level 1-15 in less than 2 minutes without a darkroom or fighting mobs.
Again you could say
Arvallon said:
We have to put so much effort into things we don't like to get what we do like.
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but that's life. Carrying this discussion now to "but this is a game, I should have fun and it shouldn't be comparable to real life" would take it a bit too far. If you just enjoy building but nothing else, then maybe the creative mode is more for you.
On the other side you could build for other people and get paid for it.

There are many ways to make money on the server and still have fun doing it. That's one reason why Massivecraft is so great: There are so many ways of playing it. You just need to find the right way for you. :)

You could even build in creative mode, make schematicas and sell them here on the forum to make money with what you love doing.

But back to topic: To help the economy on the server boost the trade. Fix the Massivelock shops and reduce the market stall rents and I believe we are fine ^^
 
Sephite said:
The idea behind /fix and it costing regals now was that you only use it in emergencies or for lore items.

but that's life. Carrying this discussion now to "but this is a game, I should have fun and it shouldn't be comparable to real life" would take it a bit too far.

But back to topic: To help the economy on the server boost the trade. Fix the Massivelock shops and reduce the market stall rents and I believe we are fine ^^
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  • That may be so. But it still garuntees 100% fix with 100% keep of enchantment. mcmmo is simply not a viable option for many. And anvil fixing only goes so far. I have no problem paying the 100r per item. Aslong as I can finance it besides my faction.
  • You just made that statement. I did not. I am not compairing it to real life, you just did.
  • I disagree that the problem ends there. It basically has the same effect that the increase of vote income does. It balances the loss of premium money. It will make shops more available to everyone more than premium used to.
Your point is a good one. It truly is. But its not the only thing that is wrong with the economy. It does not solve the lack of demand in certains supplies. Nor help the value of said supplies. And that is a point I was trying to address. So please stop attacking it asif its my personal issue.

Eventhough voting would help pay for the shops and rental homes. Its a thing you have to do daily to actualy make allot of money with. And not everyone has time to go on minecraft everyday. (I know it doesn't take long, but I don't want to go in detail why people will or will not do it everyday)

premium was a money well that gave allot of money in an instant. And the same goes for the rental areas. It takes allot of money as a money sink in an instant. So reducing the shop/rental prices would balance that out more properly then adding more money to vote does.

But again this is just one aspect of the economy that is broken due to "not only" the loss of premium. There are more issues with the economy that existed before the loss of premium. And I believe its important to address those issues aswel.
 
Arvallon said:
  • That may be so. But it still garuntees 100% fix with 100% keep of enchantment. mcmmo is simply not a viable option for many. And anvil fixing only goes so far. I have no problem paying the 100r per item. Aslong as I can finance it besides my faction.
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Yes, that's true, anvil repairs just go so far and then they become "too expensive" at one point. But the few other times already safe you hundreds of regals. :)
Arvallon said:
  • You just made that statement. I did not. I am not compairing it to real life, you just did.
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Yes, I compared it to real life because it's similar there, but you could have argued that this is a game and thus you want it to be different than from real life. At this point I was afraid to start a discussion about the difference between real life and games and I rather wanted to save that topic for another time.
Arvallon said:
  • I disagree that the problem ends there. It basically has the same effect that the increase of vote income does. It balances the loss of premium money. It will make shops more available to everyone more than premium used to.
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Yes, it may not be done with that, but as Medvekoma stated at the beginning of this post, we are brainstorming some measurements to get the economy into the right direction and then we can discuss the effects and further improvements from there.
Arvallon said:
Your point is a good one. It truly is. But its not the only thing that is wrong with the economy. It does not solve the lack of demand in certains supplies. Nor help the value of said supplies. And that is a point I was trying to address. So please stop attacking it asif its my personal issue.
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I was never attacking you and if it seemed like that, I'm sorry. I just wanted to help you to find personal solutions for your problems with making money.
Arvallon said:
Eventhough voting would help pay for the shops and rental homes. Its a thing you have to do daily to actualy make allot of money with. And not everyone has time to go on minecraft everyday. (I know it doesn't take long, but I don't want to go in detail why people will or will not do it everyday)
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That's why I was saying you need to find your own way of making money. Like selling schematicas. That can be done on a weekend and the money from it can last you maybe even more than a week (depending on the building).

You could also still get regals for real money by selling the 4ALL things in other player's names (like "want a exp4all? I pay it in your name for x regals"). But the difference here is now that you would need to find a buyer whereas before you could just buy premium yourself and get the 750r with it. Isn't this already a form of boosting economy?
Arvallon said:
premium was a money well that gave allot of money in an instant. And the same goes for the rental areas. It takes allot of money as a money sink in an instant. So reducing the shop/rental prices would balance that out more properly then adding more money to vote does.
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"*Like!*"
Arvallon said:
But again this is just one aspect of the economy that is broken due to "not only" the loss of premium. There are more issues with the economy that existed before the loss of premium. And I believe its important to address those issues aswel.
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What exactly are you referring to?
 

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